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Microsoft abandons Zune media players in iPod defeat - Page 4

post #121 of 145
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Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Finally. It seems like it has been around forever, like the blind man with both his legs chopped off begging on your street corner.

Actually, it was more like this...

post #122 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

MS is doomed from the start in the marketing area wrt the younger generation, which looks at microsoft as older people look to IBM: an overbloated "not-cool" mega corporation that only survives by parasiting the whole industry with its own intelectual property portfolio, filled with terrible wretched software. Young kids perceive MS like this, and they perceive Apple as "cool", "sexy" and "stylish".

It's a lost battle right from the start. Apple will dominate this decade.

Very interesting and apt observation. I just worry that in 10-15 years, the next generation will think of Apple as overbloated and uncool.

One other thought: For as long as I can remember Apple packed an Apple decal with every device - I just got an ATV and right there was an Apple decal! Now *that's* cool to this old fart!
post #123 of 145
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Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

I liked Zune software much better than iTunes!!!! Please Apple, fix that "user experience"!!!!!

I think your opinion might be in the minority, otherwise Ballmer's BS about Zune being the iPod killer might have actually meant something.
post #124 of 145
"there is a need and demand from the operators saying there is too much Android in the portfolio.

So they need to make a new commerical now along the lines of "Droid Does, but we'd rather it didn't - at least not so much"
post #125 of 145
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Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

However, it completely failed to do so, for reasons detailed at the time by AppleInsider.

That is utter and complete BS, none of your reasons you detailed or 5 myths about the Zune HD were the reasons why the Zune HD didn't take off, the only one you could claim that could be a reason was the myth 5 in not having enough games at launch.

I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement along with brand loyalty to apple's iPod.

How many advertisements did you see or hear for the Zune player? Practically none, the only one I can remember ever seeing anywhere was on TV was them advertising their Zune pass with that certified financial planner.

The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LuisDias View Post

You forget that people don't want to pay a monthly fee for music, they just want a music player, and a store of songs where they can buy their own with no strings attached.

If you honestly believe that the only way people could purchase music on the Zune marketplace is through their subscription service then you are an idiot. The Zune Pass was one way to purchase music, you could purchase music individually with no strings attached but if you wanted to do a subscription model that would give you unlimited access to all 10+ million songs whenever you wanted to you then subscribe to the Zune Pass.
post #126 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post

I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement
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The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.
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If you honestly believe that the only way people could purchase music on the Zune marketplace is through their subscription service then you are an idiot.

There is a difference between being an idiot and being ignorant or naive.

You've stated yourself that the mainstream didn't know about Zune because of the lack of advertising on Microsoft's behalf, so it's a bit harsh to claim this guy is an idiot simply because he didn't understand Zune's purchase/subscription model.
post #127 of 145
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Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

There is a difference between being an idiot and being ignorant or naive.

You've stated yourself that the mainstream didn't know about Zune because of the lack of advertising on Microsoft's behalf, so it's a bit harsh to claim this guy is an idiot simply because he didn't understand Zune's purchase/subscription model.

Ya there is a difference technically but when it comes to slang I would say there isn't a difference between those three words. To be honest I don't really care if you think it is harsh, this is AI, the comments are always harsh.
post #128 of 145
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Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Like I said, it's cinch up the belt time up in Oregon.

What's Oregon got to do with it?
post #129 of 145
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Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

...Silverlight (i.e. potentially the W8 App Store) running on the Xbox.

W8 - now perhaps I'm the last one to get the joke but it's still funny! W8 until 2011 and W8 until 2012 and W8 until 2013! And with all that legacy and backward compatibility code bloating Windoze, that's hefting a big W8 around as well. Gotta love it!
post #130 of 145
For me:

1. The "squircle" on the Zune
1..1. The notion of "squirting" songs was just too gross to imagine. It's like Ballmer had these ideas while sitting in Booth 12 at Fantasy Unlimited Adult Bookstore in Seattle.

2. Clippy the paperclip (picture Bill Gates scratching the inside of his ear with a semi-unbent paper clip and you get the idea)
post #131 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

W8 - now perhaps I'm the last one to get the joke but it's still funny! W8 until 2011 and W8 until 2012 and W8 until 2013! And with all that legacy and backward compatibility code bloating Windoze, that's hefting a big W8 around as well. Gotta love it!

You've been around SMS speak way too long... (I do get it now that you point it out however)!
Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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Where are we on the curve? We'll know once it goes asymptotic!
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post #132 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

What's Oregon got to do with it?

Oopsie. WA of course.

My bad.....

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #133 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

  1. Job listings have already popped up for Xbox Next which means perhaps a Christmas 2012 or 2013 release.
    If that's the case I wouldn't be surprised if it did end up "Windowized" and running x86 or ARM (a custom Tegra SoC perhaps?)
    I also remember a project to get Silverlight (i.e. potentially the W8 App Store) running on the Xbox.
  2. For tablets yes, for mobile...
    Windows Mobile ran a custom designed mobile OS and it was still pretty crap. I think persisting with a poorly supported, bastardized, spaghetti coded OS (i.e. as opposed to a modular OS like W7/W8 or OSX) and trying to cram a Windows-like UI onto a phone screen added to the poor Windows Mobile performance (among other factors).
  3. That's what I'm hearing as well
  4. Almost certainly.
    • The concept of a "marketplace" for Windows 8 was leaked about 12 months ago.
    • There is a current project to improved Zune media integration across MS devices.
    • There is a current project to bring cable TV across all MS devices.
    • Windows Live will be baked into the W8 core, which means when you sign into a Windows PC (or phone, tablet, car or Xbox) you get access to your account and data, sync'd or stream
  5. I think it will be relevant to business. With Office 365 and Azure it's really looking like Microsoft will successfully extend their Server/Windows/Office "stack" to the cloud. Microsoft won't maintain their monopoly in the enterprise sector as Google and Apple continue to chip away at them, but they will continue to be a dominant force.
    By 2012 they may have lost the consumer sector though, and I think this is what you may have been referring to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Although Microsoft are moving toward "Dot Net" as a platform rather than "Windows" I still don't think they will break backwards compatibility with old versions of Windows. I do think we'll see multiple versions though.
  • WP8 - ARM/x86. All applications written to Silverlight/XNA.
  • WT8/ARM - Metro UI. Only supports Silverlight/XNA via Marketplace (although Office will have to be ARM native). The "consumer" tablet. IMO they should brand it with Xbox, but they won't.
  • WT8/x86 - Dual UI. Standard Windows and Metro. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support. Dock-able. The "business" tablet.
  • W8 - Standard Windows UI. Legacy as well as Silverlight/XNA support.
  • Xbox Next - I don't know, although support for Silverlight and the Marketplace was rumored.
  • Car/Sync - I don't know.

Each Windows login will also be attached to a Windows Live account. I won't go as far as saying a Windows Live account will be a requirement to login to Windows, but I do think W8 variants will be severely limited without one. The Windows Live account will be used to sync user data, media, apps and purchases across all platforms.

Maybe, but maybe not. Although it's possible I just can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support. Certainly not on the desktop variant of Windows 8.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if we never see an ARM version of "desktop" Windows.



This one is tricky.

On one hand... again I can't see Microsoft breaking legacy support with Windows Server (2012?). Even if it meant losing their entire consumer business it wouldn't be worth pissing off their enterprise customers.

On the other hand... with Office 365 and Azure you can see Microsoft are shifting Windows Server and everything it supports to the cloud, so maybe the hardware architecture or OS won't matter so much to business.

Most informative. For all my daily hours focusing on computing - personal and at large, with an Apple bias - I'm not truly a nuts and bolts geek (my degree's an MSW, e.g., about as far from engineering and programming as an advanced degree can be), I just have a life-long fascination with the industry and its evolution - and within the limits of my technical knowledge, occasionally try to marshal what I've gleaned so I can play one on forums.

And appreciate garnering insights from those who are actually more beneath the hood than I.

Thanks muchly.

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #134 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

That would make a lot more sense if it were directed at Google and the manufacturers using Android. As it is right now, Microsoft isn't doing the lion's share of Apple-copying anymore. I was impressed with how different they made Windows 7 Phone when they could have taken the Google approach and rip iOS off wholesale.

Actually, it makes A LOT of sense when pointed to Microsoft. The BBC was forced by MS to take down an article when Windows 7 was released because the developers of Win7 had said they were intentionally going for a "Mac Look and Feel".

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #135 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by benanderson89 View Post

Actually, it makes A LOT of sense when pointed to Microsoft. The BBC was forced by MS to take down an article when Windows 7 was released because the developers of Win7 had said they were intentionally going for a "Mac Look and Feel".

You mean this one?

I assume not since this one is still online and MS forced the BBC to remove the one you referenced.

Plus this comment was made by an exec, not a developer... and he wasn't even involved with the development of Windows 7.

It sounds remarkable similar though.
post #136 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpics View Post

Most informative. For all my daily hours focusing on computing - personal and at large, with an Apple bias - I'm not truly a nuts and bolts geek (my degree's an MSW, e.g., about as far from engineering and programming as an advanced degree can be), I just have a life-long fascination with the industry and its evolution - and within the limits of my technical knowledge, occasionally try to marshal what I've gleaned so I can play one on forums.

And appreciate garnering insights from those who are actually more beneath the hood than I.

Thanks muchly.

Cheers.

You should skim over Office 365 on Wikipedia and watch this vid on Azure.

This gives a bit of an idea on how things will work behind-the-scenes in the "post PC" era. (I mean generally of course, not that Microsoft will be running everything! There are a number of other companies offering similar solutions).

Everything else was grabbed from a bunch of difference sources with a little bit of speculation added for good measure.
post #137 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noliving View Post


I would argue that the primary reason why the Zune HD didn't take off is because of a lack of advertisement along with brand loyalty to apple's iPod.

How many advertisements did you see or hear for the Zune player? Practically none, the only one I can remember ever seeing anywhere was on TV was them advertising their Zune pass with that certified financial planner.

The simple truth of the matter is pretty much the masses had never ever heard of the Zune player.

I disagree. It's probably a regional thing, where depending on what part of the country you live in you see different ads (or maybe we watch different channels), but I remember seeing a buttload of Zune ads for months after it was first released. They were freaking everywhere.

After it failed to catch on, yes, the ads disappeared. But they sure seemed to want to get the brand name out there at first.
post #138 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

You mean this one?

I assume not since this one is still online and MS forced the BBC to remove the one you referenced.

Plus this comment was made by an exec, not a developer... and he wasn't even involved with the development of Windows 7.

It sounds remarkable similar though.

It might have been, but I'm sure the original article before it was taken down said that it was a developers comments on the system. Besides, its not that difficult to see the Mac influence in the system anyway. (the Dock... I mean... Taskbar, being the most obvious).

Even if it wasn't a developer and my memory is quickly deteriorating, the fact that someone within the company specifically said "we were going for a Mac look and feel" does raise incredible questions. First and foremost - why would you say that?

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #139 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

I disagree. It's probably a regional thing, where depending on what part of the country you live in you see different ads (or maybe we watch different channels), but I remember seeing a buttload of Zune ads for months after it was first released. They were freaking everywhere.

After it failed to catch on, yes, the ads disappeared. But they sure seemed to want to get the brand name out there at first.

The ZUNE wasn't even available in Europe. You HAD to import it from America if you wanted one. Its what made me get an iPod in the first place (as I actually rather like the ZUNE's Metro UI which made me consider it at first).

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #140 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by megatrick View Post

Microsoft has been giving it to us in the brown for years.

>implying apple doesnt rip off and/or abuse its customers with its business practices. (lack of blu ray to keep its failing iTunes video rentals alive, the whole video out functions on iPod and iPads controversy over the years [limiting the resolution and what you can and cannot output], a little thing called DRM)
post #141 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by poematik View Post

>implying apple doesnt rip off and/or abuse its customers with its business practices. (lack of blu ray to keep its failing iTunes video rentals alive, the whole video out functions on iPod and iPads controversy over the years [limiting the resolution and what you can and cannot output], a little thing called DRM)

You know, ALL companies do things like that. Their goal after all is to remove money from your wallet any way they can. The difference is Microsoft took those ubiquitous practices and turned them up to eleven. And then abused their monopoly. And put a lot of companies out of business via those abuses. They suck.
post #142 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog View Post

Their goal after all is to remove money from your wallet any way they can. The difference is Microsoft took those ubiquitous practices and turned them up to eleven. And then abused their monopoly. And put a lot of companies out of business via those abuses. They suck.

I often wonder how much longer that stuff will be relevant. The antitrust case was filed in 1998, almost 13 years ago, for practices that occurred before then.

They turned a corner last decade, perhaps more out of self-preservation than any sense of altruism, however at the end of the day the result is the same.

They're now a tech industry leader in business ethics and accountability.

It's actually no wonder Ethisphere put them on the 2011 Most Ethical Companies list.

Both Google and Apple are notably absent.
post #143 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Cheers.

You should skim over Office 365 on Wikipedia and watch this vid on Azure.

This gives a bit of an idea on how things will work behind-the-scenes in the "post PC" era. (I mean generally of course, not that Microsoft will be running everything! There are a number of other companies offering similar solutions).

Everything else was grabbed from a bunch of difference sources with a little bit of speculation added for good measure.

Interesting stuff - wide-ranging, comprehensive in scope and aimed at a whole different world than Apple. Don't know about the pudding, but the box looks good.

I've never been a jeremiad about MS failing as a major and influential part of the computing infrastructure - but in fact becoming just that - that is, unless Win 8 hits all its marks and leads to compelling phones and tablets - by no means a sure thing - with most of its products slowly receding into the background of the consumer-facing part of the industry - back where IBM started and returned. And which is no less important in the broad scheme of things, just not a storyline that grips as broad a public as the Post PC/Mobile/ubiquitous and fun side.

Meaning, for one thing, Office for Mac has been ironically transformed from a charity product into as strategic an offering as the Win version as Apple continues to dominate the premium PC space as MS's most important point of contact with the public on PC's - since it bodes to remain the standard for people using the same devices for personal and professional purposes. And since it's the one product both PC and Mac users will have in common (along with Mac hooks into corporate functions).

And I've been looking at vids and screen shots from Lion and Win 8, and from a personally involving point of view, Lion looks fresher than Win 8. Win 8, in fact looks very much like... ...Windows. Some new eye candy. And it will hold the "Lion's share" of the biz and probably the home PC market well enough.
(WP8 and WT8 are simply question marks for now, though. But X-Box and Kinect and Sync [excuse me, "Microsoft Windows Embedded Automotive" - which already runs on a 400 MHz ARM 11] will keep MS in the home - and car - so really not game over with the public even if they lag in general mobile computing and smart phones).

PS: MWEA is based on Win CE - any insight as to whether its next iteration is also part of the Win 8 megilla?
But both Win and OS X are becoming fairly refined at last - and Windows really isn't a bad truck anymore, protestations on this forum notwithstanding - and in a sense I believe all OS's are more and more becoming - not unimportant, and not without well-differentiated key off-web functions - but in terms in how much time we spend in THEIR interfaces and functions, more and more start-up screens that allow them to serve as local app launchers and web clients to the BIG server, i.e., the cloud, which in turn is becoming more and more agnostic about what it's serving as long as the client can understand and make use of the downstream whether it's an enterprise gateway or a consumer iPhone. And I believe this is where MS feels it has its best chance of relevance and the area where Apple is not only behind, but aiming at fairly different segments in where it is apparently going.

Yeah, I know I'm talking to one person by now. But damn, following all this is where you can watch the evolution of things that are transforming our lives in almost real time. If I knew a little more and had a clue as how to attract eyeballs, I'd start a damn blog.

PS: Quote I enjoyed:

"SYNC can even receive text messages and read them aloud using a digitized female voice "Samantha". SYNC can interpret a hundred or so shorthand messages such as LOL for "laughing out loud" and will read swear words; it will not however, decipher obscene acronyms."

An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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An iPhone, a Leatherman and thou...  ...life is complete.

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post #144 of 145
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I agree about Windows Phone 7 - I had a look at a colleagues and was really impressed with it. It does some things really nicely.

Kinect is pretty cool too. There's lots of other applications you could see that technology be used for.

As a side note, I've thought of another dumbest thing Microsoft ever did. If you were to look at it from the point of view of a Microsoft shareholder, I would think giving Apple money to keep them going in 1997 was pretty stupid.

Congress was thinking about breaking up Microsoft under it's antitrust law so Microsoft boosted up Apple to show Congress they had competition. They had to give Apple money or risk being broken up.
post #145 of 145
Nice work was you done.
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