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2Pac or Biggie

post #1 of 55
Thread Starter 
Just want to see what other people think, my friend and I always argue who was better, and althoug there is no way to prove it because of it being prefrence, I have to say i think biggie is better, and was more talented lyrically.

my reasoning:

came out with 3 albums and was as popular if not more then 2pac

didn't even have to write lyrics down, just went in the studio, listened to the beat for like 5min and told them he was ready and would bust it out.

just listen to the lyrics, they are just more refined, flow better, and just give me a better picture in my head
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post #2 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by ast3r3x:
<strong>
just listen to the lyrics, they are just more refined, flow better, and just give me a better picture in my head</strong><hr></blockquote>

Better? Sorry, I hate rap...

(from groverat - read the posting guidelines)

[ 10-14-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</p>
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post #3 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>

Better? Sorry, I hate rap...

(from groverat - read the posting guidelines)

[ 10-14-2002: Message edited by: groverat ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Christ Groverat...gimme a break. Biggie and TuPac have made more of an offense to society than that picture...(which is easily accessible to via the internet).

If I posted Tupac's or Biggie's lyrics here would you censor that? Guess so...
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post #4 of 55
If you have a problem with me removing a picture of a cut-open dead guy from your post, feel free to contact an administrator.
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post #5 of 55
My vote goes to Biggie for the reasons you stated.
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post #6 of 55
Well, that's coming from a guy who used a picture of some naked chink dude with a girl or whatever....


But anywayz, Tupac is the greatest and no one can touch him. Biggie plain sucked.
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post #7 of 55
I did?

I also don't think Biggie was all that talented. Tupac was a superior rapper.
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post #8 of 55
Tupac isn't even dead, B.I.G. all the way...
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post #9 of 55
Groverat - "cut-up dead guy" = Tupac's autopsy photo...so New...he is dead...unless you saw him in a 7-11...

And anyways...Tupac was the best...example...

God Bless The Dead

Rest in peace to my motha****a Biggie Smalls
That's right boy, it's goin on
Right here, Thug Life
God bless the dead

God bless the dead & buried nigga
Don't worry if you see God first tell Him shit got worse
I ain't mad, I know you're representin the crew
And I can picture you in Heaven with a blunt & a brew
**** the world, pain was a part of the game
If you a baller, money went as quick as it came
My role models gone or they locked in the pen
Straight hustlas, caught up in the whirlwind
The other day, I thought I seen my homeboy Biggie
Sayin shit don't stop, nigga, no pity
We all hoods, and all we ever had was dreams
Money makin motha****as plot scandalous schemes
In the gutter, you learn to have a criminal mind
I was addicted to tryin, never meant to do time
My epitaph will read "Was the last of Gs
Kicked the shit to make the white man bleed
God bless the dead"

[Chorus - 2pac:]
God bless the dead
God bless the dead
God bless the dead

[2pac:]
Man, ain't nobody promised me a thang
I been caught up in this game
Ever since I was a little mother****a wantin to hang
I can see 'em in my head, pow
Memories of my nigga but he dead now
Lookin back in my yearbook all the years took
Half my peers, they're stretched for years
And if I die will they all shed tears
Two to the dome, leave me alone, let me get my head clear
Paranoid got me lookin in the mirror
Behind me, life without my nine, I'd rather do the time
See I'm old enough to know that ain't no justice
**** the police & all the courts same way they ****ed us
And why the hell am I locked in jail
They let them white boys free, we be shocked as hell
In my mind I can see it comin
And all the time it's a plot to keep a nigga runnin
By keepin gun & never run unless I'm comin at ya
Cry later but for now let's enjoy the laughter
God bless the dead

[Chorus]

[2pac:]
Rest in peace to all the mother****as that passed too early
All the young mother****as that was took in they prime
Real mother****in Gz, this one is for you
Yo Stretch, Biggie

[Stretch:]
Yo Big this is to you my nigga
Springfield Hollis crew, Thug Life, YGz
Sendin they respect, know I mean?
You my nigga for life, forever
You're always gonna be with a nigga
No matter what, don't forget that

I pray before I go to sleep
"Dear God save my place before I start to eat, cause times is hard
So I'm covered to my knees, oh why?
Why you had to take my nigga with the rock I buy?
You had to take a good one, a ghetto hood son, uzi weighin a ton
Niggas terrified of comin from the young gun
Hearin that they did it outta fear don't amaze me
But it's mind blowin, so I'm flowin goin crazy
Slip for cock the gun but he didn't run like a punk
He shoulda had the gauge in the trunk
For spunk is what he had, kid, I'd ratha attack Big
Now ya bout to smell the aftermath of what the mack did
Wannabe suckers wanna test, I'm tellin you, yes
The teflon's bout to rip through your ****in vest
Guess who? I'll make a mess of your crew quick
The spirit Biggie Smalls and the ??? clique, yeah
God bless the dead
God bless the dead
God bless the dead
God bless the dead

God bless they're both dead...IMO
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post #10 of 55
both suck. both dead. world moves on.
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post #11 of 55
Can someone linky me to the removed offensive material ???
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post #12 of 55
Private messages are probably best to ask for things that aren't allowed on the board.
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post #13 of 55
groverat--wow, i thought that people in texas only listened to country and western...wow., i guess i was wrong.
post #14 of 55
Pac was simply the best. Ever. There's no doubt; this shouldn't even be an issue.

Edit: Biggie had no game, non-original recycled beats, and the dude sounded like he was eating and rapping at the same time.

[ 10-14-2002: Message edited by: Gambit ]</p>
post #15 of 55
Grover, that bit only makes sense, but since I didn't make it explicit, someone PM me?
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post #16 of 55
I like most kinds of music, except rap. In my opinion, rap sucks ass, and so do Tu-crackhead, and Big-ass (aka: I cant stop stuffing my pie-hole with food) I think rap as a whole is the most destructive music ever produced in the US, more-so than any other kind of music in recent US history.
post #17 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by Dallenb:
<strong>I like most kinds of music, except rap. In my opinion, rap sucks ass, and so do Tu-crackhead, and Big-ass (aka: I cant stop stuffing my pie-hole with food) I think rap as a whole is the most destructive music ever produced in the US, more-so than any other kind of music in recent US history.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's true. But the only rapper I listen to consistently is Tupac. He was more of a poet than a rapper and, while it continued until his death, his earlier work was a lot more 'true', but he had some great songs (he wrote all of his lyrics, and a lot were very deep) even at the end. The best metaphor I've ever heard was Pac's: "a rose that grew from the cracks of the concrete." Because not everything had come easy, I definitely could relate. But that's what it comes down to: what you can relate to. And I definitely relate to Pac more than that incoherent, commercialized, fat **** representing Bad Boy.

[ 10-14-2002: Message edited by: Gambit ]</p>
post #18 of 55
There's a happy medium between DallenB and Gambit.

If Tupac was "more a poet than a rapper" then the same goes for Ludacris and 2 Live Crew.

Rap hasn't been any more destructive than rock 'n' roll.
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post #19 of 55
Thread Starter 
i have nothing against 2pac except he was all about being hardcore it seems to me and he wasn't...biggie was about style and grace, he was bout smooth lyrics and having you picture exactly what he was saying.

Biggie was liek an Apple computer, style, grace, overall better and more refined

2pac was like a PC with linux...still a PC, but ahead of the rest
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post #20 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>

Rap hasn't been any more destructive than rock 'n' roll.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree. Rock is usually more destructive to the singers, than the fans. However, rap is universally linked to gang violence, drive-by's, prostitutes, and drugs.
post #21 of 55
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Dallenb:
<strong>

I disagree. Rock is usually more destructive to the singers, than the fans. However, rap is universally linked to gang violence, drive-by's, prostitutes, and drugs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

but did rap shape those things or did those things shape rap?
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post #22 of 55
rap shaped those things

got a bunch of stupid white kids in the cornfields in Iowa trying to think they're bad asses after listening to their Gangsta' rap and wanting to be hardcore.

rap is poisening the minds of young people and adults alike.

rap today is a shock oriented "i can be badder than everyone else" pile of dung that is no longer talent oriented but rather who can be more disgusting than anyone else.

well, at least IMO.

post #23 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by Dallenb:
<strong>Rock is usually more destructive to the singers, than the fans. However, rap is universally linked to gang violence, drive-by's, prostitutes, and drugs.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And rock is universally linked to individual violence, mosh pits (and the resultant violence/deaths), groupies (and general loss of sexual morality) and a hell of a lot harder drugs than rap promotes.

And ast3r3x has a great point about those things having created rap as we know it today. That's where "hardcore" rap was born, not vice-versa.

A "rock" singer even sees it that way, one of my favorite quotes on the issue comes from Marilyn Manson: "Does the music make us do what we do? No, we make the music do what it does."

Mobb Deep never killed anyone, and neither did Judas Priest.
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post #24 of 55
You're kidding me, alcimedes; gangsters, drugs and prostitution (the oldest profession in the world) didn't exist before rap? They weren't prevalent?
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post #25 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by ast3r3x:
<strong>Biggie was liek an Apple computer, style, grace, overall better and more refined

2pac was like a PC with linux...still a PC, but ahead of the rest</strong><hr></blockquote>

*cough*sputter*choke*thud.


Good job, ast3r3x, you just killed Gambit. You bastard!

Looks like we're gonna have to agree to disagree. heh
post #26 of 55
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Gambit:
<strong>

*cough*sputter*choke*thud.


Good job, ast3r3x, you just killed Gambit. You bastard!

Looks like we're gonna have to agree to disagree. heh</strong><hr></blockquote>

haha ok its a tie...with emphasis on me
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post #27 of 55
Haha but you see those white kids in the corn fields of Iowa listen to crap rap that isn't even true hip-hop. They like Nelly and Ja Rule etc. Even most white kids who like rap will NOT like Tupac.

Give the kids Jurassic 5, Dilated Peoples, Tupac, Gangstarr, Eric B, Rakim, Redman, KRS One, etc...


show them what bein a real hip-hop head is about.
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post #28 of 55
Rakim is old-school, back when the DJ's name was in front of the MC's on the marquee.

Eric B. For President
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post #29 of 55
YES!!!
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post #30 of 55
[quote]You're kidding me, alcimedes; gangsters, drugs and prostitution (the oldest profession in the world) didn't exist before rap? They weren't prevalent?<hr></blockquote>

they existed but weren't glorified. no 14 year old would walk up to their girlfriend and say "hey bitch, get me a 40."

rap has turned into crap. the original stuff was pretty decent, but it's turned into a race to see who can sell to the lowest common demoninator.

condoning an art form that promotes sensless violence, rape, and disrespecting women unilaterally across the board is a mistake.

find your top 10 rap albums. find the one w/o the explicit lyrics sticker. odds are you can't.

then find the one that promotes a healthy attitude towards women. or at least one that leaves them alone. dunno, although TuPac would be an exception (almost) to some of this in a few scattered songs, the majority of rap today is garbage.

it's all recycled soundbytes from original work done 10-60 years ago. it's a disgrace to the great black music it steals so many catch phrases, refrains and the like from.

i think for the most part this is due to popularity of the genre though. it sells, so a lot is made. there's limited talent to pick from, so the void is filled with crap.

if/when rap becomes less popular, you'll see a corresponding rise in the quality of the art.
post #31 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>they existed but weren't glorified. no 14 year old would walk up to their girlfriend and say "hey bitch, get me a 40."</strong><hr></blockquote>

That happens now?

[quote]<strong>condoning an art form that promotes sensless violence, rape, and disrespecting women unilaterally across the board is a mistake.</strong><hr></blockquote>

"Art" is a malleable term. I'm not convinced that 90% of the music put out today is "art". To someone from a ghetto Shakespeare can be useless crap while Jurassic 5 will inspire them to go towards bigger things. It's too subjective.

It's entertainment, yes, it doesn't promote senseless violence, rape and disrespecting women any more than, say, million-selling video games. Mainstream rock is quite mysoginystic. (I don't know where you get "rape" from, anyway.)

[quote]<strong>find your top 10 rap albums. find the one w/o the explicit lyrics sticker. odds are you can't.</strong><hr></blockquote>

A parental advisory sticker means absolutely nothing. Some of the best albums of the last 15 years have a parental advisory sticker.

See my "Cussing" thread in FC for my opinion on profanity.

[quote]<strong>then find the one that promotes a healthy attitude towards women. or at least one that leaves them alone. dunno, although TuPac would be an exception (almost) to some of this in a few scattered songs, the majority of rap today is garbage.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Tupac was no woman-loving poet, his few "Dear Mama" songs notwithstanding.

I don't see how rap needs to be positive to be valid. Hard rock certainly doesn't have that requirement. My favorite rock is usually depressing, disturbing or outright violent.

Not to offend, but the way you're talking it sounds very much like you don't listen to hip-hop at all.

[quote]<strong>it's all recycled soundbytes from original work done 10-60 years ago. it's a disgrace to the great black music it steals so many catch phrases, refrains and the like from.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And rock'n'roll has relied on the same heavy/soft/heavy/soft song structure for the last 20 years.

Since hip-hop originated as a music of gathering it makes perfect sense that it is tied right into the culture it comes from. If you don't get the references, something as simple as a single sound then you're lost.

"You have to have heard the joke before." - Lenny Bruce

I love pop-culture and my mind (like most college males my age) is a warehouse full of reference: so I get it, I've heard the joke before. I'm not a gang-banging negro from Compton, but that doesn't mean you aren't allowed to like it. Using that logic then blacks aren't supposed to like Shakespeare.

You get stuff like 2 Live Crew, of course, which was just ignorant, but they are the exception, not the rule. If you're watching MTV then you've got problems anyway, don't look there for good music of any kind.

Should 12-year-olds listen to "Hit 'em Up" before going to school every day? Probably not.
Does an 18-year-old listening to "Hit 'em Up" make him a woman-abusing murdering rapist? No.
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post #32 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by groverat:
<strong>That happens now?</strong><hr></blockquote>You've never met EmAn outside the boards, have you?
post #33 of 55
<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

Genius.
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post #34 of 55
[quote] (...) But the only rapper I listen to consistently is Tupac. He was more of a poet than a rapper and, while it continued until his death, his earlier work was a lot more 'true', but he had some great songs (he wrote all of his lyrics, and a lot were very deep) even at the end. The best metaphor I've ever heard was Pac's: "a rose that grew from the cracks of the concrete." <hr></blockquote>
proof Biggie was better...
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post #35 of 55
I simply don't get the whole Tupac thing. I'm not trolling, I simply believe he was one seriously over-rated musician.

More of a poet than a rapper? Have you actually read his poetry? It is, quite simply, shit. His arrangements were hardly groundbreaking and there are so, so many FAR more conscious, far less self-obsessed and far, far more politically astute rhymers that I just don't know why we keep on blethering on about the guy. I don't get it. Maybe he was a really nice guy. I never met him. All I remember of him is that he was quite good and raspy on the early Digital Underground albums, he loved his mum and he grew up around the Panthers. And he was good in 'Juice'. And he looked like a DICKHEAD in every photograph of him I ever saw.

And he was no more a poet than I am.

Having said that, don't even compare him to Biggie, who produced bog-standard commercial hip-hop aimed to bring in the bling. What? He didn't give a toss and I can't remember a SINGLE ONE of his rhymes.

WHAT IS ALL THE FUSS?
post #36 of 55
Just re-read my post and it's a bit, um, forthright.

But really.

Look at Mos Def. Better flow, more intelligent lyrics, and the guy's actually set up organisations to help "his community" to boot. What did Tupac ever REALLY contribute, politically, apart from a few lines telling us it's OK to be pissed off with white people?

I don't know, I don't know.

Look at Saul Williams. "I won't ever rhyme over tracks: / Niggers on a chain-gang used to that / Way back... / Not until you've heard Rakim on a rocky mountain top / Have you HEARD hip-hop."

Yes indeed.

But my tastes aren't mainstream, I acknowledge.
post #37 of 55
True, he was quite good in juice. I actually liked him far better as an actor than a rapper...
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post #38 of 55
It seems that the "Finnish Bomber" was a Tupac fan...

"RC (the bomber's chat room nick) also quoted lyrics from dead U.S. rapper Tupac Shakur, saying: 'I ain't a killer but don't push me. Revenge is like the sweetest thing.'"



<a href="http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/15/helsinki.blast/index.html" target="_blank">http://www.cnn.com/2002/WORLD/europe/10/15/helsinki.blast/index.html</a>
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post #39 of 55
Oh lord, now we're trying to turn this discussion into politics. I'm sure I can point to every single example of where kids listnin to rock or heavy metal or what not have gone on the rage, just as you can point to the hip hop cases. It's not the music, it's the person.
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post #40 of 55
[quote]Originally posted by Artman @_@:
<strong>It seems that the "Finnish Bomber" was a Tupac fan...

"RC (the bomber's chat room nick) also quoted lyrics from dead U.S. rapper Tupac Shakur, saying: 'I ain't a killer but don't push me. Revenge is like the sweetest thing.'"
[/URL]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually, you have to use that in context. He was shot many times during his life BUT when he said killing, he didn't mean literally.

"Murder mutha-*****s lyrically, and I'm not gonna cry."

Ahh, this is all subjective anyway. We like what we like.
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