Libya - Page 3

Well assuming you are saying what I think you're saying did Obama say what's happening in Libya is a threat?

Well, I was thinking more broadly than that.

The current president has, on a number of occasions, "made the American people aware" of many (alleged) "threats" that require immediate action of which he has a proposed solution. These include things like financial regulation, mortgage bailouts, company bailouts, healthcare and, yes, even issues related to matters in the Middle East.

P.S. I don't really know what Obama has said recently on the subject of Libya. I do know that he did say this in the past on the subject of the President's war authority:

Well you know how I feel about regulation but on this matter of Libya I think I'll pull an MJ and not reveal where I stand on this situation.

I don't really care where you stand on this issue.

Also, I think made pretty clear early in this thread where I stand on this situation, and where I stand, in general, on the US government's (regardless of who is President it seems) inclinations toward war.

I didn't say he was the same in all respects - in all the important ones he is worse.

You need to take off the blinkers BR - you're in danger of reaching the point where some of the wingnuts on here are more objective...don't let it happen.

Yes that would be in line with the Libertarian line. However you've been not so forthcoming on other items in the past.

That's what I said to you.

Sorry but there's no way anyone could match Bush's presidential history. Worse? Not even close.

And before you start I've already said I'm not pleased with what Obama's done so far but comparing him to Bush isn't really fair. I don't know any modern president that's been so wrong for the job. Well Nixon maybe but at least he was intelligent.

This is exactly right.

Domestically we have higher unemployment, a larger deficit, more inflation. Bush bailed out Wall Street and Obama bailed out Detroit and the UAW...and Wall Street also.

Internationally we're still involved with two major wars (one that Obama even escalated...implementing his own "surge") and, possibly, a secret war in Pakistan...we've been trying to gin up war with Iran (and possibly North Korea) since before he was elected and continued without a hiccup since he was elected, we have an even more oppressive Department of Homeland Security and TSA...and now we're playing video game war in Libya.

But, hey, he did get a healthcare bill passed that has no chance in hell of actually solving the problems with healthcare in the US. And he got a Nobel Peace Prize. Plus he speaks more eloquently. So there's that.

Whatever. I think I've been pretty clear where I stand on a wide variety of subjects.

Gotta go. This is starting to remind me of why I don't hang here so much anymore.

Yeah, you're starting to remind me of the same.

When the going gets tough. jimmac's been gone for hours.

Because people don't immediately agree with you or actually debate your position?

It's because defending Obama has become tedious and even some "progressives" blush with shame of their hypocrisy and double standards.

This is a great point. But I would say that Bush crossed the lines in some ways as well. Some that I remember well. There was a time before 9/11 of course......... where he said "we need a humble foreign policy" I was all FOR THIS.

He used 9/11 as cover to screw that statement over in the largest of ways if I may indulge.

He also just before his second term with the help of the (at the time) republicans in congress passed the largest government entitlement program in decades. The RX Prescription Drug Bill which is unfunded and adds at least 12 trillion to the unfunded liabilities we have to finance in future budgets each and every year.

This IS NOT WHAT CONSERVATIVES DO. It was seen by myself very clearly and I despised it.

Drug companies get a wind fall from this plan, He (Bush) gets the old folks to be more willing to vote for him and more money helps re-elect GWB.

These two things were breaches of what I expected of him due to either his own words or his party platform.

Now we have Obama doing similar things in reverse and when you get down to it...

It all stinks.

Fellows

That may be generally true, but i doubt that is his reason for that statement.

He is Still playing the same tired games.

You really need to learn to read. I notice most conservatives these days are so defensive they have the same problem. Allow me to quote myself :


Get it? I'm not pleased with what Obama's doing. My reaction to MJ isn't strictly because of a difference in position. It's because I've asked him the past to clarify his position ( in the past ) and he refused. So I thought I would do the same for him. Much as he says he's always been fairly clear. There are lot's of people who don't agree with me. Some of them left wing. The only thing I've gotten tired of here is the childish dance that people go through and the one line zingers. Too much of that and not real discussion. And when people start talking about things like Obama's Birth certificate my first reaction is " With all the problems we have can't you talk about something real ? ".

Also I just can't stand the arrogance of some here. It would be different if they really had something to be arrogant about.

The real joke is there are lots of things that MJ and I would probably agree on. Him being superior however isn't one of them.

Now do you understand the situation? The truth of all of this is somewhere in between the left the right and and those fledgling 3rd parties. The answer to our problems doesn't lie with just one faction.

I only get defensive when I run into that smug arrogance that really isn't justified. And just so I'm clear I'm not talking about just one person.

Yes. tired of the games alright.

Oh my God. The fucking Irony Meter just blew up.







Defensiveness is an interesting reaction to those things.

I'm pretty sure Jimmac volunteered all the reasoning for the left side of this video.

YOUTUBE

Those two are predictable as always.

Somethings never change.\

Not only that but trumpy can't read.

Sorry but that sounds defensive.

Yes I know! One line zinger. Sometimes you have to speak the language.

Nope, I read that. Not even my point.


Talk to Hands about the birth certificate issue. He brought up a whole thread on it for nobody knows why just the other day.

Yet you continue to play them as is evidenced by your further posts after this one I responded to. If you don't want to debate. Don't. If you want to play games, don't pretend you are somehow raising the level of debate or making a point that is going to help the conversation. Or take another haitus. It will be better for your blood pressure.

Well you'd have a point there except it's hardly the first time it's been brought up here.

He probably brought it up as a joke because the whole thing is so stupid.


This isn't a hiatus. It's the begining of the end. I'm gradually phasing this place out of my life. I come back here because it's something I enjoyed once. I imagine it's the same for the many who have left here in the last couple of years. However every time I come back I encounter the same stuipidity that drives me away. It used to be different before trumpy's crowd spamed the place to death. If you don't believe me just look at the names that used to regular here and have left in the last 3 years. Yhe right would have you believe they left because Obama didn't turn out to be the type they were hoping for. Or that they just made so many good arguments that they gave up and became Republicans.

The truth is the got tired of wasting their time trying to reason with people who are unreasonable.

And I'm afraid it's you who doesn't get the point as evidenced by the content of your post and your blood pressure comment. But you jump to that automatically because I'm a member of that dreaded left wing. You'd never say anything like that about the conservative bunch here even though it's obvoius at times they're just being obtuse. they don't really want to debate. They want to win.

There's a distinct difference. They aren't really concerned with the world and what's going on. They just want their side to win. Right or wrong. And that my friend is at the heart of the problem and what's really wrong with politics now days. It isn't so much about helping people as it's about helping themselves and their side winning.

I don't really expect to change anything. I'm just pointing out a few things before I go.

No he didn't.

He started a thread about whether Obama is a Muslim. The usual suspects refused to debate why that would matter to them and started talking about birth certificates instead.

Let me know if you find somewhere with a better ambiance - I'll be right behind you.

Quit projecting. It makes you look foolish.

Yes he did. Went along the lines of, can you imagine him being in the oval office with a secret that big. Makes him a cool cat. Not sure where the thread went, but it was there.

that is exactly the game I am speaking of. Every time you complain the same thing and you do nothing to change it. You play the same arguments over, talk about how everyone left, reflect everyone's statements back at them, use a few smileys, get mad and leave. I can just go back and read your previous posts if I wanted to live back in that era. Move on to a new thread. I have been trying to and others have as well. At least argue about something new.

It turns out (regardless of what al Qaida actually is, was, or has become), that the Libyan rebel leader, Abdel Hakim al Hasidi is affiliated with both al Qaida and the Taliban.

Abdel Hakim al Hasidi is reportedly a member of the Libyan Islamic Fighting Group. It is the most powerful radical faction waging jihad in Libya and was officially designated as an affiliate of both al Qaida and the Taliban by the "UN 1267 Committee". (listed towards the bottom of the page)

Looks like the president not only authorized an illegal and unconstitutional military action in Libya, but also the effort is in support of people who are connected to the same group(s) who were allegedly responsible for the 9/11 attacks, and the designated target in the 10 year so-called "war on terrorism" (sic).

The $200-$500 million per day operation in Libya, funded by we the taxpayer is apparently in aid of the "jihadists".

Yes by that if you mean just 3 years ago ( in that era ) I remember when this used to be a more fun place to come where people could talk about real issues. That's talk not snark, spam, say outragous things to get many resposnses, and then ask why every thread is about themselves ( I have a feeling you all know who I mean ).

This used to be a funny, creative, and special place. Yes you can go back and read my previous posts. Is anything in them untrue? The reason I go over the same points is because these same individuals act like their ideas haven't been disproven many times by many people. They just won't accept it and actually deny they said certain things until someone has to look it up for them. Then they disappear for awhile and then come back saying the exact same things and the cycle repeats endlessly. So where's the real debate? That's why many of them went over to Applenova. Also that same person went over there to try to do the same thing. Only there that person wasn't tolerated. However I liked this place better and thought it could be saved. I was wrong.

This is why I'm leaving. It's like watching repeats of a tv show over and over again. In other words a waste of time. I'm pretty sure that's why those others left. They have better things to do. You can only watch an episode of a sitcom so many times.

About Libya I confess it's difficult to know what to do. On the one hand I think we are already terribly over extended because of Iraq etc. I'm not a fan of yet another conflict. However if it's like Jimmy Carter says that this is the end of the era of kings and dictators for the middle east ( and I think it is ) and maybe their people will have a say in things isn't that a good thing? And if we turn a blind eye to their plight and some others help will they look on us with a kind eye in the future when we want to do business with them?
Also this might be an opportunity to help change the statis quo in the ME that's been a pain in our backside since WWII and an endless source conflict. Still in the end we really need to get off of the oil teat so this will never be an issue again.

There's still no telling what kind of government they'll end up with. They're mostly countries with oil to sell the world and every one of their citizens should have at least as good a life as any american. Instead they live in poverty while a few live in luxury at the top ( come to think of it you could draw a parallel to here it's just not even close to as extreme. So much for the rich ). So it's difficult to know what to do. I think if Obama can keep this to a limited engagement that would be a good thing. However the best thing we can do now is get out of all of those outside conflicts that don't have anything to do with really defending the U.S. and concentrate on healing our country. Before it goes broke like the Soviet Union did in Afghanistan. History is something you should learn from not repeat. Humans really don't seem to have that one down yet.

This surprises you why?

As I said before, there is no military operation against Islamic forces anywhere conducted by the West that is not a de facto operation to protect Wahabi hegemony.

You know when you talk to that mirror all the time it's really odd.

See what I mean folks? Childish endless repeats. A waste of time.

Oh dear.

Yes " Sweetie! " Oh dear!

Yes, era...

1. A period of time as reckoned from a specific date serving as the basis of its chronological system.
2. A period of time characterized by particular circumstances, events, or personages
Seems to fit how I was using it...

The rest of your post from the words "About Lybia" on was a welcome change. More of that is much welcomed by myself. Whether I agree or not it is something more than snark and sarcasm.

What is the real underlying reason we are in Libya now?

Oil of course.

Had a second to find the post, it seems it was deleted but Google had it in the cache still.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sourc...fX5vHGBr3AEEaw