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RIM's iPad-competing BlackBerry PlayBook will launch for $499 on April 19 - Page 3

post #81 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Quit being so defensive.

lol - it's the Apple haters </cough> who are on the defensive...

Project much?
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post #82 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoodlesNoodlemann View Post

it boils down to is that they think a 7" device will fit some niche for them.

yeah, the "niche" of using a dramatically cheaper part that allows them to match the price of Apple's kit.
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post #83 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

7" sucks. At first it's cool and hip and fits everywhere, then you get bored because you can't do much with it, it feels just like an oversized phone. And the plasticky feel. Eww. There's a reason there aren't massive (or any!) queues for the Tab and Xoom and whatever Engadget et al says is the latest and greatest.

Hmm, perhaps because 7" is more of a cost control measure spun as a "feature" than a real uesability advantage?

Perhaps Apple really did know what they were talking about when they defended the 10" form factor?
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post #84 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:33pm
D.o.a.

Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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Please update the AppleInsider app to function in landscape mode.

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post #85 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

You simply cant have a rational argument with that guy.

I think Dick did rather well - the key was the use of pictures. Maybe that's where the rest of us are going wrong
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post #86 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by quinney View Post

That's a smart move, taking preorders. They don't want to frustrate all their buyers with long lines and product shortages.

Believe me, there aren't going to be any long lines for this piece of crap.......
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post #87 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What's a DH?

No offense intended, Dick.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #88 of 122
3/22/11 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

20 million cars have 1 each very large battery and 1 each alternator/generator charging the battery while the car and Flash UI are in use.

What does a car having a car battery have ANYTHING to do with the fact that the telematics units on those cars running Flash UI with a 300-400 mhz powerpc battery?

Are you saying that a 300-400 mhz powerpc chip requires a car battery to run? That doesn't seem to be the battery requirement for those chips.
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post #89 of 122
3/22/11 at 1:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DocNo42 View Post

I think Dick did rather well - the key was the use of pictures. Maybe that's where the rest of us are going wrong

Dick always does rather well. That bastard makes me have to think hard about a counter argument when I disagree with him.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #90 of 122
3/22/11 at 1:02pm
this BB tab is really lame. but it will be HP that kills it. HP is the other big guy that has a first class world-wide enterprise support operation (besides MS). and its new TouchPad will be aimed squarely at the enterpirse market, rather than the consumer market that the iPad has nailed and Android wishes for.

RIM is the next Palm. start the death watch.
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post #91 of 122
3/22/11 at 1:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

What does a car having a car battery have ANYTHING to do with the fact that the telematics units on those cars running Flash UI with a 300-400 mhz powerpc battery?

Are you saying that a 300-400 mhz powerpc chip requires a car battery to run? That doesn't seem to be the battery requirement for those chips.

RIM themselves said that they need a dual core processors for QNX to run on phones and tablets. So 300-400 MHz processors won't cut it for consumer level tablet and phone QNX OS.

You argument is flowed. It is like saying Mac OS is running on 50+ million iPhones and iPods with 600MHz ARM processors with CocoaTouch without performance issues so Mac OS Cocoa should can also run on 600MHz ARM processors smoothly!
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post #92 of 122
3/22/11 at 1:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Dick always does rather well. That bastard makes me have to think hard about a counter argument when I disagree with him.

There are limitations to the Flash UI --- the Playbook does NOT have 3D UI like the Xoom (i.e. Xoom's music app with the CD cover and Xoom's youtube app with the concave wall of videos).

Within the confines of these limitations, there is no reason why you can't build a very small and light UI with flash.
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post #93 of 122
3/22/11 at 1:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

RIM themselves said that they need a dual core processors for QNX to run on phones and tablets. So 300-400 MHz processors won't cut it for consumer level tablet and phone QNX OS.

You argument is flowed. It is like saying Mac OS is running on 50+ million iPhones and iPods with 600MHz ARM processors with CocoaTouch without performance issues so Mac OS Cocoa should can also run on 600MHz ARM processors smoothly!

The Playbook was running on a single core at CES.
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post #94 of 122
3/22/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The Playbook was running on a single core at CES.

Source?

Then explain why they wouldn't put it on their BB phones and why they said it requires a dual core.
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post #95 of 122
3/22/11 at 1:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Source?

Then explain why they wouldn't put it on their BB phones and why they said it requires a dual core.

The infamous engadget screen shot of the RIM Playbook battery life. Go to the video and freeze frame at 29 seconds --- the last row only has 1 CPU core. Once RIM enable the second core, top line performance and battery life will go up by a lot.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/b...ybook-preview/

Go to this newer video which was shot in the beginning of February --- freeze frame at 19 seconds --- the last 2 rows said Processor1 and Processor2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGF5Ympf-eU

With respect to the "dual core" requirement, it was just a roundabout way to say that it will take at least that long to migrate to QNX. Nothing to do with hardware requirements.

http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story...are/2011-02-15

By summer, when RIM launches the 3G and 4G Playbook --- it means that they have ported their wireless data protocols to QNX. BUT they still haven't finished porting the voice calls portion at the point. That's the timeline.
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post #96 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by j1h15233 View Post

Congrats on matching the price RIM. Now try to match the specs, the screen size, the user experience, the app store and the hype. Good luck!

I'm not sure if that should really be called a match since the Playbook is 3 inches smaller than the iPad but yet both are priced at $500. I mean where do you draw the line? If a 7in vs. 10in is equal then why not a 6in vs. 10 or 5in vs. 10? Could you still say they matched the price if they came out with a 5in tablet 16gb wifi at $499? For 7inches I think the price should be lower. Unless we are to believe that there is more value in getting less. This is something I'm always trying to convince my girlfriend, so I know how to spot this trick.
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post #97 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The infamous engadget screen shot of the RIM Playbook battery life. Go to the video and freeze frame at 29 seconds --- the last row only has 1 CPU core. Once RIM enable the second core, top line performance and battery life will go up by a lot.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/06/b...ybook-preview/

Go to this newer video which was shot in the beginning of February --- freeze frame at 19 seconds --- the last 2 rows said Processor1 and Processor2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DGF5Ympf-eU

Seriously?! you are looking at two screenshots that clearly shows the PlayBook has dual core and argue that it doesn't?! The first screen in the video shows the same information as the second. The only difference is that in the first video the whole text is not showing and it is cut off at the bottom. I couldn't find any article that said the PlayBook at CES was running a single core. If that was true the press would be all over it calling out RIM regarding the dual core requirement.

Quote:
With respect to the "dual core" requirement, it was just a roundabout way to say that it will take at least that long to migrate to QNX. Nothing to do with hardware requirements.

http://www.fiercedeveloper.com/story...are/2011-02-15

By summer, when RIM launches the 3G and 4G Playbook --- it means that they have ported their wireless data protocols to QNX. BUT they still haven't finished porting the voice calls portion at the point. That's the timeline.

This is your opinion. RIM was pressed on this issue and they didn't indicate such thing. They insisted that they need a dual core for QNX to work on smartphone. Unless you are saying that RIM CEOs were lying.
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post #98 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:29pm
At the Rogers tablife event, it was clearly stated that their demo (even with multitasking) was running on a single core.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sEUipZkLy0

Of course they are lying. They are in the middle of an OS transition and they still want to sell you handsets based on the old OS.

RIM bought The Astonishing Tribe --- which means that all you guys talking about how bad the Flash UI would be in terms of RAM and CPU usage, those arguments will be gone. The TAT UI is native C++. So QNX is the OS that can fit inside a floppy disk and you are getting a native C++ UI on BB7 phones --- are you saying that this thing would require a dual core CPU?
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post #99 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Seriously?! you are looking at two screenshots that clearly shows the PlayBook has dual core and argue that it doesn't?! The first screen in the video shows the same information as the second. The only difference is that in the first video the whole text is not showing and it is cut off at the bottom. I couldn't find any article that said the PlayBook at CES was running a single core. If that was true the press would be all over it calling out RIM regarding the dual core requirement.

This is your opinion. RIM was pressed on this issue and they didn't indicate such thing. They insisted that they need a dual core for QNX to work on smartphone. Unless you are saying that RIM CEOs were lying.

Whats weird about his comment is that he thinks hes defending the device by saying RiM wasnt even able to provide a decent demo about nearly a year of build up and with many other tablets demoing dual-core Cortex A9 processing at CES 2011.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #100 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What’s weird about his comment is that he thinks he’s defending the device by saying RiM wasn’t even able to provide a decent demo about nearly a year of build up and with many other tablets demoing dual-core Cortex A9 processing at CES 2011.

That's like saying that the R&D department at Apple should be ashamed for taking 3-4 years to build the iphone. RIM was never in the PC industry, was never in the tablet industry. And that all the other tablet manufacturers should be ashamed that they can't do PC style multitasking with both cores, when RIM can do it with a single core.
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post #101 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

At the Rogers tablife event, it was clearly stated that their demo (even with multitasking) was running on a single core.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0sEUipZkLy0

Of course they are lying. They are in the middle of an OS transition and they still want to sell you handsets based on the old OS.

RIM bought The Astonishing Tribe --- which means that all you guys talking about how bad the Flash UI would be in terms of RAM and CPU usage, those arguments will be gone. The TAT UI is native C++. So QNX is the OS that can fit inside a floppy disk and you are getting a native C++ UI on BB7 phones --- are you saying that this thing would require a dual core CPU?

That wasn't during CES and look how unresponsive and slow it was getting during multitasking.
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post #102 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

That's like saying that the R&D department at Apple should be ashamed for taking 3-4 years to build the iphone. RIM was never in the PC industry, was never in the tablet industry. And that all the other tablet manufacturers should be ashamed that they can't do PC style multitasking with both cores, when RIM can do it with a single core.

Yeah.. PC style multitasking tablet with 4 hours battery life is awesome
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post #103 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

That wasn't during CES and look how unresponsive and slow it was getting during multitasking.

It was also using a build that was a full month before the CES.
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post #104 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Yeah.. PC style multitasking tablet with 4 hours battery life is awesome

Well, on numerous occasions RIM has been saying that they are targetting 8 hours of battery life. And they did put in a slightly larger battery since their original announcement.
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post #105 of 122
3/22/11 at 2:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Well, on numerous occasions RIM has been saying that they are targetting 8 hours of battery life. And they did put in a slightly larger battery since their original announcement.

Before the tablet hits the market the can target whatever they want. Once this thing hits the market we will know the real battery life. However, seeing how it is not mentioned tells me that they didn't achieve their target.
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post #106 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What's a DH?

In this context I think it is either "dead head" or "die hard." Elsewhere it can refer to "dear|darn|deaf husband|hubby". The possibilities are endless when you google it.

-Tod

Edit: After reading this, I think "mstone" hits Dick on the Head:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No offense intended, Dick.

And no offense intended from this quarter, either.
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post #107 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

Before the tablet hits the market the can target whatever they want. Once this thing hits the market we will know the real battery life. However, seeing how it is not mentioned tells me that they didn't achieve their target.

Well, people aren't going to use PC style multitasking much in real life usage either. You ain't going to play a game in the background --- because your game character would die.

But what you might do occasionally is do something else while youtube forces you to watch a 30 second advertisement.

Seeing that RIM increased the battery size by only 100 mah tells me that they weren't off their target by much either.
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post #108 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by macarena View Post

Forget Apple's advantage of tight integration of Software and Hardware - Apple's innovation of having dynamic CPU speed on the A5 is going to be tough to replicate quickly for everyone else. And without dynamic CPU speed, there is no way even Apple can boast of the 10-hour battery life - despite the vastly improved CPU specs. Remember, this is an innovation that is not even present in Intel's desktop line, despite the massive R&D effort that goes into this.

I wonder if it is actually possible for Apple to patent this particular technology of the A5. If Apple succeeds in patenting this, then they will be even stronger than they are now! This is the sort of technology that will allow Apple to build quad-core or even faster chips, but still be very energy efficient. I can't wait to see what impact the A5 will have on the Apple TV!

My guess is that if there is some way to run the iPad at a constant 1GHz CPU speed, the battery life would be down to below 5 hours. I am calculating this based on the fact that the old iPad has exact same software, and almost the same capacity battery, and a much slower CPU.

Battery life is going to be the Achilles heel of the Playbook. And this issue is going to be compounded by the fact that the Playbook will tether to the Blackberry - so you could potentially be out of battery on not just your Playbook, but also on your Blackberry. Now, wouldn't that be fun!

What?

If you're talking about cpu throttling, every modern cpu that I can think of off the top of my head has this feature.

If you're talking about a feature other than cpu throttling, then I have not heard about it; elaborate please.
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post #109 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

There are limitations to the Flash UI --- the Playbook does NOT have 3D UI like the Xoom (i.e. Xoom's music app with the CD cover and Xoom's youtube app with the concave wall of videos).

Within the confines of these limitations, there is no reason why you can't build a very small and light UI with flash.

Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

The Playbook was running on a single core at CES.

Said succinctly as possible -- BFD!

Here's a video of 3D graphics done on earlier iPhones -- Much slower single-core CPU, much slower single-core GPU, less RAM.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXjpLnGKx6I


BTW, I am not a good programmer. This does not use a Apple-supplied CoverFlow API -- that is private.

The last time I worked o this app was 12/10/09.



Tell us again why you say we need all this horsepower in the Xoom and PlayBook just to do a simple 3D Graphics UI.

Obviously, you feel the PlayBook and Android OSes are superior to iOS -- explain, please, why they require twice as powerful hardware to deliver inferior results.

.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #110 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Well, people aren't going to use PC style multitasking much in real life usage either. You ain't going to play a game in the background --- because your game character would die.

But what you might do occasionally is do something else while youtube forces you to watch a 30 second advertisement.

Seeing that RIM increased the battery size by only 100 mah tells me that they weren't off their target by much either.

I am not the one who said PC makers couldn't deliver PC style multitasking for tablets, you did. You are the one who seems to have problem understanding the difference between "cannot" and "do not want". You don't need a PC style multitasking on a tablet for a simple reason.. battery life. Beside you can't have apps running side by side because it will be a big UI mess

By the way, you can run a Youtube video in the background and listen to the audio with iOS 4.3.
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post #111 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Tell us again why you say we need all this horsepower in the Xoom and PlayBook just to do a simple 3D Graphics UI.

Obviously, you feel the PlayBook and Android OSes are superior to iOS -- explain, please, why they require twice as powerful hardware to deliver inferior results.

That's precisely the opposite of what I said.

I never said that the Playbook requires a lot of horsepower to do 3D graphics UI. I said that the Flash UI has limitations --- they CAN'T do 3D UI. I said that given the limitations imposed by the lack of 3D in Flash, RIM can only give you a relatively plain 2D UI --- BUT that also means that they aren't really sucking a lot of CPU cycles as well.

Do I need a 3D concave wall UI in a youtube video app? No. Would I occasionally need to go away and do something else while youtube forces me to watch a 30 second ad? Yes.
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post #112 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NasserAE View Post

I am not the one who said PC makers couldn't deliver PC style multitasking for tablets, you did. You are the one who seems to have problem understanding the difference between "cannot" and "do not want". You don't need a PC style multitasking on a tablet for a simple reason.. battery life. Beside you can't have apps running side by side because it will be a big UI mess

By the way, you can run a Youtube video in the background and listen to the audio with iOS 4.3.

Well, next month we'll all find out if RIM can do it with decent battery life.
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post #113 of 122
3/22/11 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

That's like saying that the R&D department at Apple should be ashamed for taking 3-4 years to build the iphone. RIM was never in the PC industry, was never in the tablet industry. And that all the other tablet manufacturers should be ashamed that they can't do PC style multitasking with both cores, when RIM can do it with a single core.

WTF! Apple should be ashamed for converting a desktop OS into a mobile OS and creating an entire new UI paradigm to optimize it for the I/O or should Apple be ashamed for not demoing the device until it was fully functional? The first is a great achievement that no one is even close to matching and the other should be common sense for any company that actually wants their product to succeed.

PS: Apple was the first the mass produce a fully functioning dual-core Cortex A9-based tablet. First!
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #114 of 122
3/22/11 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

WTF! Apple should be ashamed for converting a desktop OS into a mobile OS and creating an entire new UI paradigm to optimize it for the I/O or should Apple be ashamed for not demoing the device until it was fully functional? The first is a great achievement that no one is even close to matching and the other should be common sense for any company that actually wants their product to succeed.

PS: Apple was the first the mass produce a fully functioning dual-core Cortex A9-based tablet. First!


Compare the PlayBook announcement demo at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd4LI...eature=related

to any Apple product demo...

He didn't even turn it off or on -- he just held it without touching the screen (for 4 1/2 minutes) .
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
Reply
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #115 of 122
3/22/11 at 7:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What's a DH?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

No offense intended, Dick.

Post of the day!

(Sorry, Mr. Applebaum.)
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post #116 of 122
3/22/11 at 7:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Dick always does rather well. That bastard makes me have to think hard about a counter argument when I disagree with him.

I avoid having to ever disagree with him.
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post #117 of 122
3/22/11 at 7:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by samab View Post

Well, on numerous occasions RIM has been saying that they are targetting 8 hours of battery life. And they did put in a slightly larger battery since their original announcement.

'Slightly'?
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post #118 of 122
3/22/11 at 11:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

I'm sorry, people are going to expect a tablet with 43.6% of the screen area of the iPad to be cheaper.

I tend to agree. 6 months ago people seemed more willing to pay the same price for a 7 inch vs the 10 inch iPad. Now that Samsung has announced aggressive pricing for the 9 inch Galaxy Tab, it'll probably set a standard for expecting lower prices for smaller screen tablets.

Mind you, the Galaxy tab 8.9 and 10.1 won't be ready until June, so Blackberry can adjust pricing as it wishes at that point. Apple is definitely setting the pace here and everyone else is clinging on for dear life. They have a solid enough product that nobody will be able to release a product that clearly blows it away for a while yet. iPad competition will exist this year, but no iPad killer.
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post #119 of 122
3/23/11 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Compare the PlayBook announcement demo at:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jd4LI...eature=related

to any Apple product demo...

He didn't even turn it off or on -- he just held it without touching the screen (for 4 1/2 minutes) .

He looked mimicking SJ's presentation style.

For, once I thought that it was a awkward looking phone from a distance.

RIM is sure out of ideas in every single way.

It's ironical that people try to equate substandard crap to "professional". When the "professionals" really needs a much more powerful device than a average consumer.
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post #120 of 122
3/23/11 at 7:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Dick always does rather well. That bastard makes me have to think hard about a counter argument when I disagree with him.

This comment is far funnier if taken out of context from the conversation.
Crying? No, I am not crying. I am sweating through my eyes.
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