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Mac software chief Bertrand Serlet to depart Apple - Page 2

post #41 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

iOS is what's driving Apple and handing them record quarters. It's also an example for the rest of the industry. Essentially, Apple with iOS sets the bar.

What I see is not so much a demise of the OSX but a more natural integration with iOS. The focus of the iOS was initially to address efficient power consumption and that required efficiency in a mobile OS, thus the rework on the OSX.

The iOS is becoming more powerful while the OSX is getting more features of the iOS. It now even has its equivalent of the App Store.

When I saw the first iPad, I posted that I hope eventually they will make a unibody standalone computer that has the design form of the iPad rather than the clamshell notebook. The clamshell design form is not as portable as the iPad design form.

Let's not forget that even the original iPad has more CPU and diskstorage that the the standalone Macs many years ago, and even the early models of the iMac. The disk storage of my second generation iMac was 2Gb. My 1994 top of the line Mac computer cost $5000, if I remember correctly, its CPU was 200MHz and the disk storage is not in the Gb.

My G3 MacBook has 800MHz and 20Gb disk storage. The base iPad2 has almost comparable specifications and yet even faster, and better screen resolution than the G3 MacBook.

The other concern that I have of the iPad though is that the exposed glass screen is still glass and need some form of protection that would not destroy its elegant design. The new iPad cover is a step in the right direction.
post #42 of 137
He's obviously a smart guy and has done a good job while at Apple, but sometimes after being at the same company for a very long time, people wish to pursue other interests. I'm sure that he's acquired enough money to do whatever he pleases now. Good luck to him.

I do agree with the poster who mentioned his accent. If somebody can not speak proper English or if they have a very thick accent, then they should not be giving public presentations, as language and delivery is key. I'm sure that he would have been great at demonstrating at a Mac Paris expo, but in the English speaking world, not so much.

I don't blame him for his poor English speaking skills though. While I don't know his background, his poor English speaking skills are probably a product of the extremely discriminatory and xenophobic French speaking countries, where all other languages are shunned in favor of French, which they still falsely believe is an important or influential language. It is not.
post #43 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eideard View Post

A good example of the people Apple attracts.

When someone comparable leaves most successful American corporations - you can start with reasons that are essentially economic: more pay, more power.

Yet, I'm not surprised to read of someone leaving Apple to turn to science and research.

When you get old enough it usually occurs to most people that money is basically meaningless and it's really just about your contribution to the universe and what people will remember you for.

Maybe he has some good ideas he always wanted to pursue, but that the business of life, family and earning a wage got in the way of.
post #44 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

He's obviously a smart guy and has done a good job while at Apple, but sometimes after being at the same company for a very long time, people wish to pursue other interests. I'm sure that he's acquired enough money to do whatever he pleases now. Good luck to him.

I do agree with the poster who mentioned his accent. If somebody can not speak proper English or if they have a very thick accent, then they should not be giving public presentations, as language and delivery is key. I'm sure that he would have been great at demonstrating at a Mac Paris expo, but in the English speaking world, not so much.

I don't blame him for his poor English speaking skills though. While I don't know his background, his poor English speaking skills are probably a product of the extremely discriminatory and xenophobic French speaking countries, where all other languages are shunned.

Ouch! I'm not even going there.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #45 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Seriously though, I wonder if this is because of the demise of OS X in the face of iOS?

What demise. The two systems are just different faces of the same core OS. Each optimized for the devices and uses needed. While they might bleed over in a few ways, neither is going to 'kill' the other. They will evolve as needed.

The real issue is old school geeks who want everything they want, when they want and how they want. Forgetting that they are a small minority. A digital apartheid if you will. Except that Apple isn't playing nice with that mindset.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

iOS is what's driving Apple and handing them record quarters. It's also an example for the rest of the industry. Essentially, Apple with iOS sets the bar.

If Serlet is no longer compatible with that vision, then he *should* leave. .

That is a pretty serious IF to toss out there with no ground.

As for the first part, so what? There isn't really anywhere for standard computers to go right now. They have plateaued to a great degree. So they are moving slowe and taking a second place. Doesnt mean that mobile devices are going to be all there is. Anymore than reality tv killed off scripted shows 'within 2-3 seasons' like naysayers were talking about 5 years ago. Reality is the moneymaker that gives studios the breathing room to work on scripted fare. Same with mobile and 'old school' systems

Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

... or that Steve is leaving and he decided not to stick around so that he could practice his first love, science.

He's probably not hurting financially.

There are no real signs that Steve is leaving in the near future so it is unlikely that has anything to do with it. The tech plateauing is likely a big factor. Traditional systems need some new science to give them a place to go. And with Serlet in the mix it will likely convenientl go in directions that are in line with Apple's future plans (which are likely already mapped out at least in the idea phase for the next ten years).

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #46 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

He's obviously a smart guy and has done a good job while at Apple, but sometimes after being at the same company for a very long time, people wish to pursue other interests. I'm sure that he's acquired enough money to do whatever he pleases now. Good luck to him.

I do agree with the poster who mentioned his accent. If somebody can not speak proper English or if they have a very thick accent, then they should not be giving public presentations, as language and delivery is key. I'm sure that he would have been great at demonstrating at a Mac Paris expo, but in the English speaking world, not so much.

I don't blame him for his poor English speaking skills though. While I don't know his background, his poor English speaking skills are probably a product of the extremely discriminatory and xenophobic French speaking countries, where all other languages are shunned in favor of French, which they still falsely believe is an important or influential language. It is not.

Could you work in the term "poor english skills" one more time? I don't think you used it quite enough. And maybe you could work in another backhanded dig at French culture while your at it.
post #47 of 137
Good luck Mr. Serlet on your new horizon!

This is not the first time this has happened. Serlet replaced Avie Tevanian, the then VP of Mac OS software. There was some hemming and hawing when Tevanian left. The NeXT circle is still going though. Tevanian was a NeXT vet (Mr. Mach kernel himself). Serlet was a NeXT vet. And the successor, Federighi is a NeXT vet. Not mention Forstall is a NeXT vet as well. Pretty soon, they are going to run out of NeXT people.
post #48 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

Pretty soon, they are going to run out of NeXT people.

And then Apple will just have to move on to the next big thing.

Don't hit!

Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

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Originally Posted by Slurpy

There's just a TINY chance that Apple will also be able to figure out payments. Oh wait, they did already… …and you’re already fucked.

 

Reply
post #49 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

sad news...why is he leaving?

Because Mac OS X as we know it is no more. It's on track to be strangely convoluted in 10.7 and then highly, highly integrated with iOS in 10.8. There won't ever be a 10.9, I'm sure a unified iOS is Apple's 3 to 5 year target.
post #50 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

In my experience (and I have lived in many parts of the UK and America not to mention places that don't speak English at all) the folks that change that quickly do so deliberately. I can do any accent from where I have lived, I simply don't feel the need to fake it. I knew a PhD in engineering that left Newcastle, UK with a broad geordy accent and after a few months returned from the US with a strong Texan accent. The mistake was he was working in California! (no comments on which is worse ok?)

p.s. just curious ... is "Some people travel well, some don't...heard Madonna lately?" meant to mean those that change over night do or don't?

This IS a minefield...there are those who are confident enough in their identity, background, upbringing etc who don't feel the need to pretend, Bertrand Serlet is a good example of a native French speaker who has obviously spent a great deal of time based in the US but still sounds French, Arsene Wenger is another good example. Both, I would say, travel well.

A couple of years ago, I heard Madonna being interviewed and there was hardly a trace of NY in her voice although at the time she had only been living here a short while. Nigel kennedy used to speak with an almost cut glass English accent till he decided to go all Mockney to connect wiv da kids no doubt. He currently stays in Budapest so I imagine he's gone native Magyar by now.
Lulu, when she found fame, couldn't lose her Scottish accent quick enough but when she does come back to Scotland her 'Glaswegian' is turned on like a tap.

I'd say those three DON'T travel well...IMO, of course!
post #51 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

Good luck Mr. Serlet on your new horizon!

This is not the first time this has happened. Serlet replaced Avie Tevanian, the then VP of Mac OS software. There was some hemming and hawing when Tevanian left. The NeXT circle is still going though. Tevanian was a NeXT vet (Mr. Mach kernel himself). Serlet was a NeXT vet. And the successor, Federighi is a NeXT vet. Not mention Forstall is a NeXT vet as well. Pretty soon, they are going to run out of NeXT people.

Forstall is key. He is pretty much their unified iOS future. He is riding well high, professionally at least.
post #52 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Hey it's all conjecture for sure. Indeed both scenarios could be true ... the PR story and changes within Apple. Being a loyal guy he is never going to publicly say any thing negative or disagree with SJ or Apple I'm sure.

That's true, but isn't it a shame that we have been so conditioned to companies lying to us (and I'm not saying Apple here, I mean companies in general) that we can never read anything at face value anymore.

It's similar to the situation in the UK where one of the preeminent political interviewers of the day, Jeremy Paxman, interviews people with the constant thought of, "why is this lying bastard lying to me now". What an awful condition we find ourselves in when lying is so pervasive that we just expect it all the time.

Back to the Apple thing, what amazes me about people in senior positions at companies who's stock has gone gangbusters is why do they stay. If I'd made as much money on stock options as they will have, there is no way I'd be doing anything other than flying my plane, or sitting on a beach.

That said, my attitude is probably why I'll never be at the top of an organization
post #53 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheRat View Post

This IS a minefield...there are those who are confident enough in their identity, background, upbringing etc who don't feel the need to pretend, Bertrand Serlet is a good example of a native French speaker who has obviously spent a great deal of time based in the US but still sounds French, Arsene Wenger is another good example. Both, I would say, travel well.

A couple of years ago, I heard Madonna being interviewed and there was hardly a trace of NY in her voice although at the time she had only been living here a short while. Nigel kennedy used to speak with an almost cut glass English accent till he decided to go all Mockney to connect wiv da kids no doubt. He currently stays in Budapest so I imagine he's gone native Magyar by now.
Lulu, when she found fame, couldn't lose her Scottish accent quick enough but when she does come back to Scotland her 'Glaswegian' is turned on like a tap.

I'd say those three DON'T travel well...IMO, of course!

Wenger's English is perfectly acceptable. His back four and general defense strategy, oh boy, now that's highly questionable! (English soccer reference for those wondering what the hell I'm on about)
post #54 of 137
The conspiracy theorists have come out of the woodwork I see.
post #55 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

That's true, but isn't it a shame that we have been so conditioned to companies lying to us (and I'm not saying Apple here, I mean companies in general) that we can never read anything at face value anymore.

It's similar to the situation in the UK where one of the preeminent political interviewers of the day, Jeremy Paxman, interviews people with the constant thought of, "why is this lying bastard lying to me now". What an awful condition we find ourselves in when lying is so pervasive that we just expect it all the time.

Back to the Apple thing, what amazes me about people in senior positions at companies who's stock has gone gangbusters is why do they stay. If I'd made as much money on stock options as they will have, there is no way I'd be doing anything other than flying my plane, or sitting on a beach.

That said, my attitude is probably why I'll never be at the top of an organization

For most of these people, sure, they love rolling in the cash but I reckon for whoever is in the $20 - $50 million personal nett worth mark, money is probably not the main reason they wake up in the morning... Unless they want to be billionaires, in which case they would go highly entrepreneurial rather than remain specialised executives.
post #56 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtm135 View Post

He may be talented, but I hated listening to him speak at official Apple functions. His accent is terrible.

Wow. I wonder how you would react to Stephen Hawkings.

Some of the greatest minds in the world do not present themselves well as the greatest speakers. A great number of them became Nobel Prize winners or in their chosen fields. This did not impact how those in their field understood them.

I remember meeting someone at a research lab that I visited for a few weeks. I thought he was just one of the graduate students working there, very friendly but more reticent. Then, for some reason, many years later, he either recognized me or just saw me as just as not into small talk in a conference. I was more at the big aquarium of the Boston Aquarium just feeling out of place with all the bigwigs in the conference.

He approached me this time and engaged me into a non-technical conversation. I do not remember now what we talked about. We were interrupted only when the Chairman of the Conference talked to him. I was surprised to find out when he was called in the podium as the honored guest of the evening. It turned out, he was not only a member of the US National Academy of Sciences but also a member of the National Academy of Engineering (or some other elite academy). It is a very rare feat to become a member of the National Academy of Sciences, let alone to be a member also of the National Academy of Engineering. Even full professors at many prestigious universities including Harvard who are recognized as the top tiers in their fields do not get elected as member of these elite academies.

It turned out this rather shy and reticent guy is the basic holder of many basic patents that govern even many derivative inventions even of big corporations like Dupont and Pharmaceuticals. I requested his CV at some point a few years later, and he did not hesitate to send it to me, and it was almost an inch-thick. His patents alone was several pages.

When you are student or become involved in research and technology, you meet many kinds of these people in seminars and conferences. Many could barely could speak fluent English or speak in correct grammar, as many of them are foreigners. They could be rambling too. One I knew even use a copy editor to improve his written work before submission to journals. But, if you focus too much on their speaking voice, or that they are slow or they ramble -- you will miss a lot learning from them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I do agree with the poster who mentioned his accent. If somebody can not speak proper English or if they have a very thick accent, then they should not be giving public presentations, as language and delivery is key.

Are you for real? Whatever profession are you in?

Do you actually believe that proper English must be mandated to everyone simply because many Americans or Brits do not have the capacity to comprehend other languages?

You obviously have not met some of the greatest minds in the world. This is true in any field. Not being able to speak proper English has never been a criteria in serious fields when it comes to public speaking. Some of them even get standing room only, if you can squeeze in. Some are very much in demand to be invited guest speakers in conferences and featured seminars very common in universities and research institutions. That is if you can get them to agree. Some are just too busy to be spending time in their work instead of hopping from one place to another.

As important as speech is in "popularity contest" arenas, if speech were the litmus test, many great people would not pass your shallowmindedness. You would eliminate many Asians who have achieved success as sought public speakers because they are the top in their field. And not only Asians, pretty much many people who do not speak English as their native tongue.

You actually equate savvy speaking with success in communication? I bet charlatans would mesmerize you.

I bet if you did not know Steve Jobs accomplishments he would not have passed your criteria too. By the way, if you listen to him carefully, he does not speak proper English, fond of hyperbole that irritates some New York Times columnist and blogger.


CGC
post #57 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter61 View Post

For such a smart person, profanity does not communicate, only irritates.

yeah, well profanity towards me irritates me as well, that's why I sometimes resort to speaking that language in response to it.
post #58 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

When you get old enough it usually occurs to most people that money is basically meaningless and it's really just about your contribution to the universe and what people will remember you for...

My problem is that I realised that at 22! That actually makes things harder when you figure this stuff out when you're still young! Or maybe I'm just a hippie or have been one all along...

I'm 33 this year, enough savings to not have to work for a year, quitting my job soon, but really needing to refocus the career on this tablet stuff. Web was 2000-2010. Mobile is 2011-2020. Time to shift gears from PHP to... ??????

One thing though... I'm not a corporate type, I'm not management type. Creative, concept, marketing, dreamer type. That's another problem there! Or... Crisis-tunity!!
post #59 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

It's maybe because people feel compelled to embarrass themselves by posting fucking idiocies on what others have to say.

FYI because I have an academic career, it's understandable to ask how come someone with an established business career is aiming to make an academic leap, given that it's usually quite difficult to move from one domain to the other (esp. from business to academia). But of course this all flies over your head...

FYI, your response is broken. We knew why he was leaving, it was unbelievably plain. This has nothing to do with justifying academics, you are the one railing from the ivory tower and showing you utterly miss the point. So parse those first two posts, load up some logic, forget Turing/Church for a few seconds and comprehend some natural language!

It's people as out of touch as you that often make me embarrassed to say I'm faculty in a CS department. Fracking CS PhDs as a group are about as clueless as they come. No wonder we haven't solved a whole host of problems, we are more concerned with ripping non-PhDs than we are about paying attention ourselves. Makes folks not want to listen to us, tell us to go back to our labs.
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post #60 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I'm 33 this year, enough savings to not have to work for a year, quitting my job soon, but really needing to refocus the career on this tablet stuff. Web was 2000-2010. Mobile is 2011-2020. Time to shift gears from PHP to... ??????

2021-2030 - just trying not to be killed plus finding something to eat to keep from starving to death...

Call me Mr. Happy...
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post #61 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Some of the greatest minds in the world do not present themselves well as the greatest speakers. A great number of them became Nobel Prize winners or in their chosen fields. This did not impact how those in their field understood them.

What you write might be true for a socially awkward nuclear scientist or Noble Prize winner giving a lecture to his peers, which would also consist of socially awkward academics. The same cannot be said for somebody who is presenting products for Apple, which is a commercial company seeking to promote and sell their products, as the intended target audience is much more mainstream and completely different from a bunch of socially inept academics.
post #62 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

Back to the Apple thing, what amazes me about people in senior positions at companies who's stock has gone gangbusters is why do they stay. If I'd made as much money on stock options as they will have, there is no way I'd be doing anything other than flying my plane, or sitting on a beach.

That said, my attitude is probably why I'll never be at the top of an organization

No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!
post #63 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

My slightly later post clarified my thoughts a little better ... I'm suspecting the OS X team is being guided more and more by the iOS team and perhaps that is a point at which the OS X grand old master graciously steps aside. I wish him well and much thanks for everything he has done. I also hope there is a subcutaneous chip in him that SJ can explode if he joins Microsoft ... KIDDING....

I wouldn't read so much into it. The guy taking over gave on-stage talks already, that means very likely they have been grooming him for the seat and the swap has been a planned event.

iOS and OS X have different UI layers, but the same basic underlying architecture. I don't see Apple wanting to break that, it's too valuable from an investment in the future standpoint.
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post #64 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I should have worded that slightly differently, I meant ... perhaps the iOS team gaining a degree of control over OS X's destiny. Kind of like the old Mac versus Lisa team thing.

You make a valid point. It could be a combination of the iOS team gaining a degree of control plus the fact that Serlet wants to focus more on science. With Lion being a good OS release the time is probably right for the transition.

Even if another company wanted to hire him they probably couldn't afford the guy with the millions he's made with his salary + stock compensation. 22 years is a long time to work for one company. People eventually do move on.
post #65 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

My point is that OS X is a lot closer to the future I'm describing than stripped down, locked version of OS X that we know as iOS.

Oh for goodness sake, can we drop the debate of what is going to turn into what. MacOS X is made for computers that have a wide variety of uses and evolved since time before the Internet where security didn't need to be the top priority, and the average user base knew how to fix things themselves.

iOS is made for ultraportable devices that are marketed like appliances and suitable for extreme novices so they have restrictions that stop people from messing up their machines.

I swear, if some of you "iOS is too restrictive, it'd better not migrate to the desktop" people were designing toasters, the customer would have to open the side panel, remove a resistor and put in another one and adjust the distance of the elements to the toast with a screwdriver if they wanted their toast a little browner one day.
post #66 of 137
Now instead of being a European socialist OS, OSX can go back to being an American liberty OS like Mac OS 7! No longer will our programs be burdened by some big bortheresque, central planning OS that tells them how much of the CPU they can get and when, or which memory they write to and which they can't. Let freedom ring, baby!!
post #67 of 137
Oh... never mind...
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post #68 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by madhatter61 View Post

For such a smart person, profanity does not communicate, only irritates.

I've never understood the hangups some people have with "profanity". They act like their heads will explode if they hear or read certain words. Language is about expression, and sometimes the best way to express something is to use a word that some people consider "profane".
post #69 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

My problem is that I realised that at 22! That actually makes things harder when you figure this stuff out when you're still young! Or maybe I'm just a hippie or have been one all along...

I'm 33 this year, enough savings to not have to work for a year, quitting my job soon, but really needing to refocus the career on this tablet stuff. Web was 2000-2010. Mobile is 2011-2020. Time to shift gears from PHP to... ??????

One thing though... I'm not a corporate type, I'm not management type. Creative, concept, marketing, dreamer type. That's another problem there! Or... Crisis-tunity!!

You are more my kind of people. Did you by any chance listen to Steve Jobs Stanford Speech a few years back? He talked about the time for reflection, the "lazy moments".
post #70 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!

If Apple gave you those millions, plus all the resources of the world's most innovative company, tell me you wouldn't stick around to play. There must be something on your Apple wish list you'd like to see released. Making stuff happen is exciting.

If they offered the job to me, the first thing I'd have to do is make a list. You wouldn't see me for weeks!

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #71 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Wow. I wonder how you would react to Stephen Hawkings.

Some of the greatest minds in the world do not present themselves well as the greatest speakers. A great number of them became Nobel Prize winners or in their chosen fields. This did not impact how those in their field understood them.

I remember meeting someone at a research lab that I visited for a few weeks. I thought he was just one of the graduate students working there, very friendly but more reticent. Then, for some reason, many years later, he either recognized me or just saw me as just as not into small talk in a conference. I was more at the big aquarium of the Boston Aquarium just feeling out of place with all the bigwigs in the conference.

He approached me this time and engaged me into a non-technical conversation. I do not remember now what we talked about. We were interrupted only when the Chairman of the Conference talked to him. I was surprised to find out when he was called in the podium as the honored guest of the evening. It turned out, he was not only a member of the US National Academy of Sciences but also a member of the National Academy of Engineering (or some other elite academy). It is a very rare feat to become a member of the National Academy of Sciences, let alone to be a member also of the National Academy of Engineering. Even full professors at many prestigious universities including Harvard who are recognized as the top tiers in their fields do not get elected as member of these elite academies.

It turned out this rather shy and reticent guy is the basic holder of many basic patents that govern even many derivative inventions even of big corporations like Dupont and Pharmaceuticals. I requested his CV at some point a few years later, and he did not hesitate to send it to me, and it was almost an inch-thick. His patents alone was several pages.

When you are student or become involved in research and technology, you meet many kinds of these people in seminars and conferences. Many could barely could speak fluent English or speak in correct grammar, as many of them are foreigners. They could be rambling too. One I knew even use a copy editor to improve his written work before submission to journals. But, if you focus too much on their speaking voice, or that they are slow or they ramble -- you will miss a lot learning from them.



Are you for real? Whatever profession are you in?

You obviously have not met some of the greatest minds in the world. This is true in any field. Not being able to speak proper English has never been a criteria in serious fields when it comes to public speaking. Some of them even get standing room only, if you can squeeze in. Some are very much in demand to be invited guest speakers in conferences and featured seminars very common in universities and research institutions.


You actually equate savvy speaking with success in communication? I bet charlatans would mesmerize you.

As important as speech is in "popularity contest" arenas, if speech were the litmus test, many great people would not pass your shallow mindedness.


CGC

Gesh, you got all that because the guy had a hard time understanding him as public speaker. He didn't call him the devil or anything, while you... ah never mind. Sorry for the thread interruption everyone.
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post #72 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

I've never understood the hangups some people have with "profanity". They act like their heads will explode if they hear or read certain words. Language is about expression, and sometimes the best way to express something is to use a word that some people consider "profane".

Perhaps, but that should be pretty rare and thats the issue. Is there really anything said here that warrants profanity? That is such a large outrage to warrant such an exclaimation of disagreement?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, we should use reasoned discourse... ah... &uck it.
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post #73 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

What you write might be true for a socially awkward nuclear scientist or Noble Prize winner giving a lecture to his peers, which would also consist of socially awkward academics. The same cannot be said for somebody who is presenting products for Apple, which is a commercial company seeking to promote and sell their products, as the intended target audience is much more mainstream and completely different from a bunch of socially inept academics.

Jesus, don't put your foot into your mouth any farther, it may reach your "a--".

Those you disdain will have more lasting impact than you can ever imagine, long after you are simply dust. They actually made a difference in this world and contributed to the betterment of mankind than you and I can ever dream of.

Your xenophobia revealed in another thread just keeps popping out more.

Socialist? Do you even understand what that means, from what you just posted?

Did you know that Isaac Newton was what you would call socially inept? Assuming of course that you ever heard of him.

By the way, many of these people are not socially inept. You may even feel so inept if you actually met them, because in all their quiet disposition many of them exude surety of their conviction and accomplishments.

If your world is Apple, you surely have a very limited scope. Try to look at the definition of inept sometimes. You might have a better understanding and appreciation of the meaning of socially inept.

By the way it is "Nobel" after a person. Although a number of Nobel Prize winners are indeed noble.


Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Gesh, you got all that because the guy had a hard time understanding him as public speaker. He didn't call him the devil or anything, while you... ah never mind. Sorry for the thread interruption everyone.

Read some of the other posts of Apple ][. By the way, quite a number of Americans have a field day making a profession poking fun at non-English speakers.

CGC
post #74 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

Oh for goodness sake, can we drop the debate of what is going to turn into what. MacOS X is made for computers that have a wide variety of uses and evolved since time before the Internet where security didn't need to be the top priority, and the average user base knew how to fix things themselves.

iOS is made for ultraportable devices that are marketed like appliances and suitable for extreme novices so they have restrictions that stop people from messing up their machines.

I swear, if some of you "iOS is too restrictive, it'd better not migrate to the desktop" people were designing toasters, the customer would have to open the side panel, remove a resistor and put in another one and adjust the distance of the elements to the toast with a screwdriver if they wanted their toast a little browner one day.

And people like you would design a toaster that only makes one kind of toast. If you want a a slightly darker kind of toast, you go to a store and buy a new one.

Ironically, the "toasters" apple now sells (their iDevices) are like the toasters you describe. If you only want the kind of toast Apple wants you to have, you are fine, but if you want a darker toast you need to jailbreak your toaster, pull out the toolbox and start changing resistors .

Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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Mac Pro, 8 Core, 32 GB RAM, nVidia GTX 285 1 GB, 2 TB storage, 240 GB OWC Mercury Extreme SSD, 30'' Cinema Display, 27'' iMac, 24'' iMac, 17'' MBP, 13'' MBP, 32 GB iPhone 4, 64 GB iPad 3

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post #75 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrstep View Post

No doubt. Athletes, corporate execs, wherever - give me a nice $10-500 mil payday and I'm OUT. See you on the beach!

Sounds good - I'll get the first round of beers in!
post #76 of 137
Partial quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

What demise. The two systems are just different faces of the same core OS. Each optimized for the devices and uses needed. While they might bleed over in a few ways, neither is going to 'kill' the other. They will evolve as needed.

Partial quote...

My following posts expanded and explained. I didn't mean how you took it.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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post #77 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by boeyc15 View Post

Perhaps, but that should be pretty rare and thats the issue. Is there really anything said here that warrants profanity? That is such a large outrage to warrant such an exclaimation of disagreement?
Or perhaps, just perhaps, we should use reasoned discourse... ah... &uck it.

What profanity? Why the hangup on certain words as taboo? What harm will in fact come to anyone because these words are spoken or written? None. So, objecting to them is simply irrational.

It's not like he's uttering the name of god or something prohibited by the divinity, if you believe in that sort of thing.
post #78 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

"......Seriously though, I wonder if this is because of the demise of OS X in the face of iOS?

What demise? I use both platforms and don't see them as interchangeable in my life.

Mac sales are up, ummm, slightly.

(last sentence is sarcasm for the uninitiated)
post #79 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Those you disdain will have more lasting impact than you can ever imagine, long after you are simply dust. They actually made a difference in this world and contributed to the betterment of mankind than you and I can ever dream of.

I don't disdain them. Some of those people are pretty brilliant. You are drawing some pretty far reaching conclusions which are patently absurd, bordering on the comical to say the least.

Somebody can be a genius and also be a piss poor public speaker, that's all that has been stated. And why do you mention 'socialist'? I have written nothing about any socialists in this thread. You seem to be quite angry, which is apparently affecting your ability to properly comprehend what is being written to the point of even imaging words that have never been written.

And I know perfectly well who Alfred Nobel is, though the prize has lost a bit of it's prestige in recent years, due to it being awarded to people who have done nothing to deserve it, especially in the political field, though I won't mention any names here.
post #80 of 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackTheRat View Post

This IS a minefield...there are those who are confident enough in their identity, background, upbringing etc who don't feel the need to pretend, Bertrand Serlet is a good example of a native French speaker who has obviously spent a great deal of time based in the US but still sounds French, Arsene Wenger is another good example. Both, I would say, travel well.

A couple of years ago, I heard Madonna being interviewed and there was hardly a trace of NY in her voice although at the time she had only been living here a short while. Nigel kennedy used to speak with an almost cut glass English accent till he decided to go all Mockney to connect wiv da kids no doubt. He currently stays in Budapest so I imagine he's gone native Magyar by now.
Lulu, when she found fame, couldn't lose her Scottish accent quick enough but when she does come back to Scotland her 'Glaswegian' is turned on like a tap.

I'd say those three DON'T travel well...IMO, of course!

Ah, Lulu, such memories

The biggest shock I got was hearing Christian Bale speak at the Oscars. Not what I expected at all ... but hey it's his native 'speak' so good for him.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
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