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Porn store for Android targeted in Apple's 'App Store' trademark defense

post #1 of 54
Thread Starter 
Apple's defense of its "App Store" trademark filing has a new target: a storefront for pornography available on the Google Android platform.

The adult service "MiKandi" this month hit with a cease-and-desist letter from Apple over its use of the term "App Store," according to GeekWire. It's the second digital download service targeted by Apple in defense of its trademark application this month, the first being the Amazon Appstore for Android.

At the time the report was filed, MiKandi's official website pitched itself as "the world's first app store for adults." But the company has since changed all references to "app store" to read "app market" instead. The official "MiKandi App Store" name has also been changed to "MiKandi App Market" on the website.

Apple has strict control over the App Store for iPhone, iPad and iPod touch, and the official guidelines clearly state that pornography of any type is not permitted. Even the official Android Market from Google does not allow adult content, along with Amazon's newly launched third-party Appstore for Android, which opened Tuesday.

Apple first applied for the App Store trademark in 2008, though the application has been challenged by Microsoft. Apple believes the term "App Store" is associated by the general public with Apple products, while Microsoft has asked the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office to deny Apple ownership of the name on the grounds that "app store" is too generic.

MiKandi co-founder Jesse Adams told GeekWire that his company doesn't plan to take on Apple's legal department by itself, but it might throw its support behind Microsoft's efforts. But the changes subsequently made to the website, from "app store" to "app market," suggest the company doesn't plan to wait for a decision on Microsoft's appeal.

The adult storefront for Android was noted by Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs last April, though Jobs did not identify the service by name. At Apple's iOS 4.0 preview in April, Jobs cited a "porn store" on Android as reason why Apple doesn't allow software unsigned by Apple to run on iOS devices like the iPhone and iPad.

"You can download it, your kids can download it," Jobs said last year. "That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to."
post #2 of 54
Hey don't give them any free publicity! THis may come back to bite SJ. I hope not of course.
Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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Been using Apple since Apple ][ - Long on AAPL so biased
nMac Pro 6 Core, MacBookPro i7, MacBookPro i5, iPhones 5 and 5s, iPad Air, 2013 Mac mini, SE30, IIFx, Towers; G4 & G3.
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post #3 of 54
Jobs said last year. "That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to."

Apparently they went...

So Apple doesn't allow porn on their app store and yet they come across this... Hmmm, is that why Apple is so secretive?... Is this what goes on behind closed doors at Apple's R&D?.... Wonder what they've been researching and wonder what developed?... Anyway, double standard? You be the judge. </SARCASM>


(hold your horses, Apple probably googled "app store" and with google's help found "MiKandi". Just poking fun people.)... Scheez...
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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

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post #4 of 54
Now that you have to have a password to download apps and verify ages and what not...Apple should allow porn to be downloaded on it's platform. iOS red light district.
post #5 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Hey don't give them any free publicity! THis may come back to bite SJ. I hope not of course.

Some people are into that biting stuff....isn't that what the kinky app store is all about?
post #6 of 54
Ass Store? iAss? iPord?
post #7 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Jobs said last year. "That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to."

Apparently they went...

So Apple doesn't allow porn on their app store and yet they come across this... Hmmm, is that why Apple is so secretive?... Is this what goes on behind closed doors at Apple's R&D?.... Wonder what they've been researching and wonder what developed?... Anyway, double standard? You be the judge. </SARCASM>


(hold your horses, Apple probably googled "app store" and with google's help found "MiKandi". Just poking fun people.)... Scheez...
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Well, here in Malaysia everything (free TV, movies, satellite TV etc.) is censored down to a PG-13 level. I'm sure working in the censorship department has been great fun for the past, oh, 40 years they've been doing it.

Luckily, here the Internet is pretty much uncensored (unless you are a popular blogger that says nasty anti-government things - even then they can't censor the blog they just jail the bloggers for a few days and rough them up or what not).
post #8 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Now that you have to have a password to download apps and verify ages and what not...Apple should allow porn to be downloaded on it's platform. iOS red light district.


skyfire browser to view flash videos on idevices
post #9 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Now that you have to have a password to download apps and verify ages and what not...Apple should allow porn to be downloaded on it's platform. iOS red light district.

Nah, I don't need apps (of course, we haven't seen what kind of apps they'll come up with)... I just need those damn porn sites to HTML5-ize their videos. Begone Flash porn!

Just like VHS and DVD, porn made Flash what it is today. Now if they could use their power for good and ditch Flash...

Come to think of it Steve banned porn from iOS because it probably would just take up too much time filtering through it at Apple across all departments.

Amazing how what was once in closets and under mattresses and through peep holes ("legit" or otherwise) is now open to all thanks to the Intarwebs.
post #10 of 54
.

This brings a whole new meaning to "touch screen"



.

Yea, I know - is lame as it gets

But be honest

Many of you were already thinking it

.



.
post #11 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Nah, I don't need apps (of course, we haven't seen what kind of apps they'll come up with)... I just need those damn porn sites to HTML5-ize their videos. Begone Flash porn!

Just like VHS and DVD, porn made Flash what it is today. Now if they could use their power for good and ditch Flash...

Oh... so that's how the name, Flash, came into being...
na na na na na...
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na na na na na...
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post #12 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Now that you have to have a password to download apps and verify ages and what not...Apple should allow porn to be downloaded on it's platform. iOS red light district.

Kids figure out passwords. And the age verification is a pop up that says 'Are you old enough?' and you tap yes. A five year old can reply and get past that step.

Apple tried to do the whole credit card must be on the account thing but kids can lift a card out of mom's bag. Privacy nuts jump all over any attempt to get into social security numbers etc.

And if Apple just gives in, they will get sued by those parent groups, women's groups etc. They could also be held liable for any child porn violations etc

Basically Apple will never completely win. Regardless, the trademark office granted them the mark and legally they must actively defend it. Which they are. That it is a porn market is really beside the point

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #13 of 54
motorola xoom sales: 600,000
MiKandi App Market sales: 599,999

I think it's good apple doesn't allow adult content. Not only would a lot of people not understand how to properly restrict their kids from it, it would be associated with apple and they don't want that. they want family friendly.

however, it'd be pretty cool be an app reviewer at apple if they did.

New app submission: Back Door Sluts IX
Status: Approved
Comments: Reviewed thoroughly, no bugs found.
post #14 of 54
These companies really should save the lawyers for things that really matter, not common terms/words.

The term 'app store' should be categorized the the same way that shoe store, grocery store, or hardware store is - Generic Terms - IMO

These each are nothing more than stores that sell mobile platform apps... thus they're - App Stores, with the differentiator being the brand name of the app store itself e.g. Apple, Amazon et al.

Remember that Apple doesn't even currently hold a trademark for the words 'App Store' as their attempt was recently rejected:

"Microsoft argued in a previous filing that any "secondary meaning or fame Apple has in 'App Store' is de facto secondary meaning that cannot convert the generic term 'app store' into a protectable trademark."

Among other pieces of evidence, the Microsoft filing noted that the media and even Apple CEO Steve Jobs have used the phrase generically. Jobs, for example, once referred in an interview to a new crop of Android "app stores."


Interesting... It appears that Apple's going to lose this one.
"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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"Why iPhone"... Hmmm?
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post #15 of 54
If Microsoft can trademark a word as generic as "windows", then I don't see how apple can't trademark "app store" (and heck -- apple has a trademark on "apple", which itself is pretty generic).
post #16 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

And if Apple just gives in, they will get sued by those parent groups, women's groups etc. They could also be held liable for any child porn violations etc

Yeah OK, just like they get sued for porn on Macs, and MS gets sued for porn on windows. Give up, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.
post #17 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

"Apple argued in a previous filing that any "secondary meaning or fame Microsoft has in 'Windows' is de facto secondary meaning that cannot convert the generic term 'windows' into a protectable trademark."

Among other pieces of evidence, the Apple filing noted that the media and even Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer have used the phrase generically. Ballmer, for example, once referred in an interview to a new crop of Milgard "custom windows."


Interesting... It appears that Apple's going to lose this one.

I see absolutely no reason for Apple to lose.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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post #18 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaHarder View Post

hold a trademark for the words 'App Store' as their attempt was recently rejected:

"Microsoft argued in a previous filing that any "secondary meaning or fame Apple has in 'App Store' is de facto secondary meaning that cannot convert the generic term 'app store' into a protectable trademark."

Among other pieces of evidence, the Microsoft filing noted that the media and even Apple CEO Steve Jobs have used the phrase generically. Jobs, for example, once referred in an interview to a new crop of Android "app stores."


Interesting... It appears that Apple's going to lose this one.

BINGO! Steve Jobs has publicly used App Store as a generic term. That in itself should kill the attemp to trade mark it.
post #19 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC Kelly View Post

.

This brings a whole new meaning to "touch screen"



.

Yea, I know - is lame as it gets

But be honest

Many of you were already thinking it

.



.

I'm shocked, shocked I tell you! How déclassé.
I wouldnt touch that with a ten foot pole.
post #20 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

I see absolutely no reason for Apple to lose.

Because you have no clue what you are lookign at or talking about. The Windows trademark covers the use on computers not the physical openings/glass in homes and cars. It was also filed long before Balmer was CEO.

There is an argument the application for Windows should have been rejected due to use of the term by other before microsoft (WIMP where the W stood for windows), but just because the PTO may have made a mistake nearly 30 years ago does not mean they will repeat it.
post #21 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

If Microsoft can trademark a word as generic as "windows", then I don't see how apple can't trademark "app store" (and heck -- apple has a trademark on "apple", which itself is pretty generic).

not windows, but Windows; A grammatical plural used as a common singular noun.
post #22 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Kids figure out passwords. And the age verification is a pop up that says 'Are you old enough?' and you tap yes. A five year old can reply and get past that step....

It's worth remembering that most folks don't even bother with the parental controls on their kids computers or on their own.

Also, every kid I've met in the last ten years or so has already seen any kind of porn they wanted or that you could even imagine, and worse (murder, various beheadings, torture porn, etc.), since about age 10. As soon as a kid gets interested in sex they look for it on the Internet and it's really, really, really easy to find.

In the early 80's, in North America at least, one could still get to the age of maturity having no idea what the other sex even looked like under their clothes, if you only stuck to mainstream media like TV and magazines. Today, the Internet is mainstream media and almost all kids have seen things that would make your blood curdle before they leave grade school (whether they told you about it or not).

In this environment, censorship, especially blanket censorship of sexual imagery that ignores the real danger of the violent stuff, is a joke really.
post #23 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

If Microsoft can trademark a word as generic as "windows", then I don't see how apple can't trademark "app store" (and heck -- apple has a trademark on "apple", which itself is pretty generic).

The trademark is not for the word, it is for a specific use of the word. In 1983 when MS announced Windows, there was no association in the public mind between the word "windows" and computers. The term was in use within Xerox Parc by 1980 if not earlier, but not with any commercial/public products.

App store is an obvious term for a store that sells apps. In 2008, the term app was in use as a short word for a computer application and the term store was in use for a place that sells stuff, including online stores that do not have a physical presence. Putting them together is hardly a major leap of innovation. Apple has a MUCH harder case to make than Microsoft did.
post #24 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

Yeah OK, just like they get sued for porn on Macs, and MS gets sued for porn on windows. Give up, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

Actually, charlituna makes a good point. Apple would be liable, because they host and distribute the content. Apple can't be held responsible for how their products (Macs/iOS devices) are used, they can be held responsible for content purchased through the App/iTunes store. And the issue of children being able to access porn is a very serious one that Apple is right to simply refuse to make even possible.
I personally applaud Apple for not having a backroom/"red light district" portion of the App Store. If the android folks wanna take the low road, that's fine by me. And besides, just because Apple refuses to distribute porn or porn-related apps doesn't mean that those who really want to wouldn't be able to access/view porn on their iOS devices. It's just that Apple doesn't want to participate in that sort of thing.

Also, with Apple sitting on over $50 billion in cash, they don't need resort to porn distribution to stay afloat, e.g. "I was young! I needed the money!"
"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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"Don't be a dick!"Wil Wheaton
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post #25 of 54
Historical use of generic terms is not the relevant legal consideration with regard to enforcement of a trademark. What matters is if the generic terms has acquired a secondary meaning that is unique to the product of the trademark holder.

It is important to remember that despite what trademark holders would like to think, the purpose of trademark law is to avoid confusion of the public. This clearly provides a benefit to the trademark holder by avoiding the diversion of revenue by virtue of customers who, intending to patronize Apple's App Store, inadvertently make purchases elsewhere. There is also the issue of the trademark holder's name and reputation being tarnished, which is what Apple seems to be arguing here. Essentially, they don't want the six o'clock news to say "There is more porn in the app store tonight," and have the uninformed public associate that material with Apple's brand.

I think this will be an interesting case to watch.

I am in my final semester of law school, and happen to be doing research in the area of intellectual property with a focus on software End User License Agreements. If you want to help me out, please take my survey at www.joshfenton.net - it deals with the experiences people have had buying software, and it takes about 3 minutes to complete.

Thanks,
Josh
post #26 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

Actually, charlituna makes a good point. Apple would be liable, because they host and distribute the content. Apple can't be held responsible for how their products (Macs/iOS devices) are used, they can be held responsible for content purchased through the App/iTunes store. And the issue of children being able to access porn is a very serious one that Apple is right to simply refuse to make even possible.
I personally applaud Apple for not having a backroom/"red light district" portion of the App Store. If the android folks wanna take the low road, that's fine by me. And besides, just because Apple refuses to distribute porn or porn-related apps doesn't mean that those who really want to wouldn't be able to access/view porn on their iOS devices. It's just that Apple doesn't want to participate in that sort of thing.

There is a ton of porn sold through all sorts of outlets without a rash of lawsuits. You may agree or disagree with Apple's possition, but to suggest it is because of litigation is simply false, and quite frankly ignorant. Stay in touch with reality.
post #27 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

Actually, charlituna makes a good point. Apple would be liable, because they host and distribute the content. Apple can't be held responsible for how their products (Macs/iOS devices) are used, they can be held responsible for content purchased through the App/iTunes store. And the issue of children being able to access porn is a very serious one that Apple is right to simply refuse to make even possible.
I personally applaud Apple for not having a backroom/"red light district" portion of the App Store. If the android folks wanna take the low road, that's fine by me. And besides, just because Apple refuses to distribute porn or porn-related apps doesn't mean that those who really want to wouldn't be able to access/view porn on their iOS devices. It's just that Apple doesn't want to participate in that sort of thing.

That's a good point. Porn industry should just make it an HTML 5 ready and that way you can watch it on your device at your liesure.
post #28 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlaw View Post


It is important to remember that despite what trademark holders would like to think, the purpose of trademark law is to avoid confusion of the public. This clearly provides a benefit to the trademark holder by avoiding the diversion of revenue by virtue of customers who, intending to patronize Apple's App Store, inadvertently make purchases elsewhere. There is also the issue of the trademark holder's name and reputation being tarnished, which is what Apple seems to be arguing here. Essentially, they don't want the six o'clock news to say "There is more porn in the app store tonight," and have the uninformed public associate that material with Apple's brand.

But then nobody would actually report that news. Why? Because in this case (just like the Amazon case) these companies are not just using the term "App Store", instead they're using "Company X's App Store" as the name. Using "MiKandi App Store" or "Amazon Appstore" is clearly different from using just "App Store", because it'd be much harder for anyone to associate those names with Apple's "App Store".
post #29 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

...and quite frankly ignorant. Stay in touch with reality.

Geez. Somebody got up on the cranky side of the bed this morning!

But, snark aside, I think it has more to do with image than fear of litigation. Apple wants to be known as the maker of the best electronics products in the industry, not as a purveyor of porn--even if that porn is kept in a "back room".
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post #30 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

If Microsoft can trademark a word as generic as "windows", then I don't see how apple can't trademark "app store" (and heck -- apple has a trademark on "apple", which itself is pretty generic).

Windows isn't descriptive of the product though. A more apt analogy would be if "Google" was called "Search" then started going after other Search engines for having a Search button.
post #31 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlaw View Post

Historical use of generic terms is not the relevant legal consideration with regard to enforcement of a trademark. What matters is if the generic terms has acquired a secondary meaning that is unique to the product of the trademark holder.


Thanks,
Josh


Actually, a generic term can't establish secondary meaning. A descriptive term can. That's why they go 2(f) or on the supplemental register.
A true generic term is given a Trademark Act Section 2(e)(1) descriptiveness refusal and you are SOL.

In the App Store trademark application it looks like the Examiner determined 'Store' was generic and that 'App' was descriptive and had acquired distinctiveness and was thus eligible for 2(f).

I'd bet my $.02 on MSFT.


~Former PTO examiner breaking out some o'l training.
post #32 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Oh... so that's how the name, Flash, came into being...



Quote:
Originally Posted by BC Kelly View Post

.

This brings a whole new meaning to "touch screen"



.

Yea, I know - is lame as it gets

But be honest

Many of you were already thinking it

.



.

Yes, we shure have been thinking of touching it with a whole bunch of things!
post #33 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

Geez. Somebody got up on the cranky side of the bed this morning!

But, snark aside, I think it has more to do with image than fear of litigation. Apple wants to be known as the maker of the best electronics products in the industry, not as a purveyor of porn--even if that porn is kept in a "back room".

Image is a perfectly valid argument well grounded in reality in many cultures, litigation is an ignorant and stupid argument with no basis in reality. See the difference?
post #34 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by BC Kelly View Post

.

This brings a whole new meaning to "touch screen"



.

Yea, I know - is lame as it gets

But be honest

Many of you were already thinking it

.



.

It better come with a new spermatozoaphobic coating... (pun and eeew intended)

Thanks, I'll be here all week!
post #35 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by AIaddict View Post

Yeah OK, just like they get sued for porn on Macs, and MS gets sued for porn on windows. Give up, you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about.

It's better to be ignorant than arrogant. Those who find the need to talk down to someone else's opinions to defend their argument enjoy both descriptive terms.

I believe you have achieved mastery in both terms. I award you one gold star and will recommend that you are promoted to the second grade.

btw: don't bother replying I don't communicate with such foolishness.
post #36 of 54
Since Steve don't like porn, No one should have it on their elegant, delicious, sexy, and of so magical iToys!! And Steve's a Liberal, I hope they ban all conservative views too!!! And books that Steve don't like should be banned also!!!! I used to watch a lot of flash videos but now we know their crap!!! Please Apple give us more sexy iAds!!!

Let them all go buy a crappy and clunky Android device..
iMac 24" (Late 07), iMac 17" G5, Mac mini (Early 09), MacBook (Mid 07), iPad WiFi 32, iPhone 4, iBook G4 1.2, HP Compaq 610 Laptop, eMachine W5233, (1) Xserve G5 and (1) Xserve G5 Cluster node with...
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post #37 of 54
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jetlaw
Historical use of generic terms is not the relevant legal consideration with regard to enforcement of a trademark. What matters is if the generic terms has acquired a secondary meaning that is unique to the product of the trademark holder.


Thanks,
Josh

Actually, a generic term can't establish secondary meaning. A descriptive term can. That's why they go 2(f) or on the supplemental register.
A true generic term is given a Trademark Act Section 2(e)(1) descriptiveness refusal and you are SOL.

In the App Store trademark application it looks like the Examiner determined 'Store' was generic and that 'App' was descriptive and had acquired distinctiveness and was thus eligible for 2(f).

I'd bet my $.02 on MSFT.


~Former PTO examiner breaking out some o'l training.

I stand corrected. Thank you. Would you agree then, that to prevail, Apple would have to succeed in establish that: 1) "App Store" is not generic, but 2) is descriptive of their propriety store, and 3) that the term has acquired secondary meaning?
post #38 of 54
Never used Android.....what is it?, How is this accessed from a iMac?

For Steve, trademark the words APPle STORE.

For the other Steve, I think he met to say "garbage", not "windows".

For me, anyone out there have a free gift certificate to give me for the porn store,
(in case I figure out how to access Android).
post #39 of 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Jobs said last year. "That's a place we don't want to go, so we're not going to."

Apparently they went...

So Apple doesn't allow porn on their app store and yet they come across this... Hmmm, is that why Apple is so secretive?... Is this what goes on behind closed doors at Apple's R&D?.... Wonder what they've been researching and wonder what developed?... Anyway, double standard? You be the judge. </SARCASM>


(hold your horses, Apple probably googled "app store" and with google's help found "MiKandi". Just poking fun people.)... Scheez...
/
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/

It only takes one hand to do some kinds of research.
post #40 of 54
If you want to visit the sewers, then Android opens the doors wide open to such swamps. If you want a lock to such conduits, Apple is the garden to visit.

That Apple is also the best at what ever device it tackles, rankles the Envyboy Apple-Haters. Mind you, it would be the same if Apple wasn't the greatest. Such would just be more wind from the Hater's spiel.

It all comes down to choice which the Boys of Envy can't stand. No Apple, no envy, no choice. Chaos would ensue and dark ages would descend from the aether as happened under the rule of Microsoft.

The King that rules sets the stage we live upon. May Ghadaffi fall to Hell and his evil sons dive in to join him.

And I mean this in the kindest way.

Namaste,
mhikl

When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

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When I find time to rewrite the laws of Physics, there'll Finally be some changes made round here!

I am not crazy! Three out of five court appointed psychiatrists said so.

Reply
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