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Inside Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: Apple drops FTP, adds WebDAV file sharing for iOS - Page 2

post #41 of 56
3/25/11 at 9:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

Looks like, by simplifying (and eliminating redundancy in some of) the configuration panels, Apple is preparing for the Server edition to be adopted by a much wider audience.

As for the near-elimination of FTP and NFS server protocols, FTP is rarely used anymore (at least not without SSH/SFTP), and any pure Unix shops utilizing NFS are almost certainly using Solaris (or another flavor of Unix) for file serving. As long as OSX still supports these protocols as a client, this should mostly be a non-issue.

BUT, the decision may keep some people (e.g., in small businesses) from simplifying a complex unix network by (kicking out e.g., Sun, and) providing the server functionality from MacOSX (referring to NFS here).

On the other hand, I vigorously applaud Apple's decision to provide MacOSX Server functionality for anyone, because there are many households with several Macs, and it would certainly make the greater public aware of and knowledgeable about MacOSX as a server.

Previously, the step to a dedicated MacOSX Server in the home was too big, for 2 reasons (both of which are being dealt with, so it seems):-
(i) more expensive (It wouldn't hurt though having to pay for MacOSX Server licenses >x clients, gradually increasing e.g., for x^2 clients, for x^3 clients, etc..., with x=5 or 10);
(ii) more difficult to manage (Well-done, Apple, for simplifying OSX Server administration)
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post #42 of 56
3/25/11 at 9:58am
I, for one, am NOT HAPPY to see NFS services go by the wayside in Lion Server. Some of us actually us it. In my case, I have an aging Sun tower in my house that I primarily use for training for my job in technology. Since it uses smallish SCSI drives, I use my Snow Leopard Server as a NFS server store for my Solaris machine. Snow Leopard Server makes this dirt simple to set up and use.

Also, I know some people using certain media servers like using NFS instead of SMB since some of the products have performance bugs with SMB trying to stream 1080p files. Again, Snow Leopard Server is really good at this.

Maybe there will still be a way to activate it the old fashioned way but I see no reason to ditch the very useful UI.
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post #43 of 56
3/25/11 at 1:18pm
I am glad to see apple progressing and removing legacy file sharing apps from the GUI. Seems a logic step. That being said I wish they would simplify the management of OSX Server. there are two utilities to launch in order to manager the server. it would be nice to have all server functionality combined into one tool.

SFTP would have been a welcome addition to file sharing.
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post #44 of 56
3/25/11 at 1:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by malax View Post

They aren't dropping "FTP support," just the lame download only FTP option in the Finder. Fetch and other GUI clients will still work fine. Besides, as other people have pointed out, using FTP as-is is negligently insecure as the username and passwords are transmitted unencrypted.

malax one of the most common uses of FTP from my experience is to download massive datasets from the state and federal government. Thus, security is not applicable. It's public data. Guest/guest or whatever for the login. It was very convenient to just download through Finder. The federal government does not move quick. If everyone were to remove FTP today, they'd come up with a replacement next decade. So, it will be around for another decade or two. I can't think of a reason for removing it. To me it just seems like a mistake.


DJrumpy thanks for the DStore tip for everyone's info. I was aware of that and other apps to remove the files, but many people do not know this is possible and it results in Macs banned from the office unfortunately.
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
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post #45 of 56
3/25/11 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJRumpy View Post

Actually the tool stops the OS X machine from creating it on network drives and external drives the first place.

Just saying, why should I have use a separate tool to fix a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #46 of 56
3/25/11 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Just saying, why should I have use a separate tool to fix a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place?

You don't:

Code:

defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true



In some organizations, this might not be seen as a problem. Windows systems by default do not display files that begin with a dot (as far as I know), so perhaps this was seen as appropriate default behavior so that Finder folder settings would be preserved, even on remote volumes.
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post #47 of 56
3/25/11 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquatic View Post

malax one of the most common uses of FTP from my experience is to download massive datasets from the state and federal government. Thus, security is not applicable. It's public data. Guest/guest or whatever for the login. It was very convenient to just download through Finder. The federal government does not move quick. If everyone were to remove FTP today, they'd come up with a replacement next decade. So, it will be around for another decade or two. I can't think of a reason for removing it. To me it just seems like a mistake.

Again, Apple is not removing client support for FTP, just server. You'll still be able to download your government forms and even upload them should you choose. If, however, the government is using Macs for their servers (and I doubt they are), then their admins will simply have to download and install a copy of ProFTPD (which is better and more secure than the standard ftpd anyway).
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post #48 of 56
3/25/11 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by krisarmstrong View Post

That being said I wish they would simplify the management of OSX Server. there are two utilities to launch in order to manager the server.

Two utilities is too much complication? That's far less than you have on a standard Unix system. Solaris (out-of-the-box) requires a lot of command-line stuff and the editing of configuration files and manual restart of services to configure and manage a server. Many Linux distributions come with some decent graphical admin tools, but there are absolutely more than two of them.

Frankly, I don't think it's appropriate to manage every single system service through one humongously bloated tool; I'd rather have my tasks logically delineated.
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post #49 of 56
3/25/11 at 3:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

You don't:

Code:

defaults write com.apple.desktopservices DSDontWriteNetworkStores true



In some organizations, this might not be seen as a problem. Windows systems by default do not display files that begin with a dot (as far as I know), so perhaps this was seen as appropriate default behavior so that Finder folder settings would be preserved, even on remote volumes.

Thanks, I'll try that. What you say about the Windows is probably true since the default is configured to not show file extensions, but honestly can anyone actually use a Windows computer without being able to identify the file extension?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #50 of 56
3/25/11 at 6:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0 View Post

Not without proper server hardware to run it on! http://www.savethexserve.com/

You're absolutely right. The server software of Lion is looking better and better. Not much good though when Apple have discontinued XServer hardware and to date have not allowed OS X Server to be virtualised on other vendor hardware.
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post #51 of 56
3/25/11 at 6:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Just saying, why should I have use a separate tool to fix a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place??

All the tool does it write the defaults in the background so you don't have to remember the console command. It's nothing sinister.
iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 24" Dual Core 3.06 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 4
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iMac 27" 2.8 Quad i7 / 24" Dual Core 3.06 / 17" Macbook Pro Unibody / Mac Mini HTPC / iPhone 4
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post #52 of 56
3/25/11 at 9:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

Contact GoDaddy. They should have moved to SSH [SFTP]: Port 22 secure shell wrapped FTP years ago.

Your username and password should be communicating over Port 22 with GoDaddy.

Use CyberDuck 3.8.1 Stable

Cyberduck 3.8.1 is available for PowerPC stable. I just checked. I'm on PowerPC and I can download the 4.x branch in Beta, BUT DON'T DO IT. Just download the 3.8.1 version.

Cyberduck allows for you to upgrade to 4.0.1 as a Universal App but I've just tested it and it crashes on 10.5.8 so I think they need to disable that feature as it's clear now that 3.8.1 was the last version for 10.5.

http://update.cyberduck.ch/Cyberduck-3.8.1.zip

http://trac.cyberduck.ch/ [to track the project]

http://cyberduck.ch/ [main page]

You'll be glad you moved to this solution.

Thanks A LOT, mdriftmeyer!!!!

I will be talking to GoDaddy, and I'll point them to your gracious reply... My problem is that your reply is way over my head, and it might be too much for whomever I'll be speaking at GoDaddy... They'll probably tell me: Don't Worry Be Happy! If Ain't Broken, Don't Fix it... In that case:

What would you advise me to do?

What hypothetical scenario should I need to mention to them, in order to illustrate the possible Security Vulnerabilities of my present configuration, as described in my original Post #26 http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...=1#post1835190

Then there is the usual Tech Support "go away" lingo -- "We Don't Support 3rd Party Products, contact your IT Department!"

Well..., I am my own "IT Department"... My present Configuration works, but this Thread, and your Reply seem to imply that my site User ID and Password might be stolen, and thus my site might be Hijacked...

I am eagerly awaiting your, and any other feedback, so that when I call GoDaddy, I am in a better position to get to the bottom of this, and increase the security of my site...

Thank A LOT AGAIN, mdriftmeyer!!!! It's really gracious of you to offer that info!
MBP 17', Antiglare - 2.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7 -8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM = 2x4GB; 512GB SSD - SuperDrive 8x - Apple Thunderbolt Display 27'
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MBP 17', Antiglare - 2.5GHz Quad-core Intel Core i7 -8GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM = 2x4GB; 512GB SSD - SuperDrive 8x - Apple Thunderbolt Display 27'
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post #53 of 56
3/26/11 at 4:35pm
Apple has the right idea. Its still available, its just not in system preferences.
But FTP is scarily old, outdated and has been replaced by much better standards now. The current FTP standard was written up in 1985 and it hasn't changed since!

The WebDAV stuff sounds intriguing. Does this mean a mounted WebDAV volume in Finder will finally run at full speed? I bloody-well hope so. The time it takes to transfer one Photoshop document less than 2mb to my server on the same network via webdav is nothing short of hilarious.

... at night.

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... at night.

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post #54 of 56
3/26/11 at 6:19pm
I'm surprised you guys don't talk about the built in Mobile Device Manager in Lion Server.

That's a great new feature to manage large enterprise fleets of iPhones and iPads, that won't require a 3rd party anymore.
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post #55 of 56
3/27/11 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

The upcoming release of Mac OS X Lion and Lion Server dramatically simplifies file sharing, removing official support for FTP and Sun's NFS file sharing protocols while adding a new WebDAV option making it easy to share files with iOS devices.

These changes may create difficulties for some users in large enterprises (were the site policies likely already call for disabling ftp servers). NFS is widely used for enterprise file servers. WebDAV uses port 80, so it is often assumed that if web browsing is allowed, then so is WebDAV. Corporate firewalls, however, look at packets more carefully than just the port no. Such firewalls are often configured to block WebDAV because it is used by some malware:http://www.cisco.com/en/US/products/...808bc994.shtml includes "all webdav methods are blocked with log."
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post #56 of 56
3/28/11 at 7:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by djames4242 View Post

Again, Apple is not removing client support for FTP, just server. You'll still be able to download your government forms and even upload them should you choose. If, however, the government is using Macs for their servers (and I doubt they are), then their admins will simply have to download and install a copy of ProFTPD (which is better and more secure than the standard ftpd anyway).

Ah, well then, that makes sense, and is good. Thanks for the info!
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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