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Analyst says Apple working on 'Smart TV' prototype in bid for living room

post #1 of 132
Thread Starter 
According to one analyst's checks with Apple's Asian suppliers, the company is in the process of building a 'Smart TV' prototype as part of an ongoing effort to assert a stronger presence in consumers' living rooms.

In a note sent to investors on Friday, analyst Katy Huberty of Morgan Stanley wrote that the firm's "checks in Asia suggest Apple is working on a Smart TV prototype." Though further details remained scarce, Huberty speculated that an Apple Smart TV could be an opportunity for the Cupertino, Calif., company to consolidate "TV/Video content, gaming, DVR, as well as other features like apps and FaceTime into one product," much like the company did with its strategy for the iPad.

Huberty sees Apple's rumored Smart TV as "potentially the next new product category" and predicts that an Apple-branded TV could add approximately $4 billion per 1 percent share of the TV market captured by 2013.

The analyst also cited three other under-appreciated growth catalysts for Apple in her note: sales growth in Asia Pacific, especially China; expansion of iPhone price points leading to increased smartphone market share and continued dominance of the fast growing tablet market.

Projecting 60 percent annual revenue growth for Apple in Asia Pacific, excluding Japan, Huberty sees the Asian share of Apple's revenue approaching 30 percent in 2013. Huberty also noted that the Asia Pacific region tends to skew toward mobile devices, resulting in a higher profit margin for the company.

Huberty predicts an LTE iPhone from Apple in 2012, with Apple marketing older 3G iPhone models to developing markets. According to the analyst, new features and faster performance of an LTE iPhone could preserve the device's $600 price point, while 3G iPhones would sell for a lower average selling price in countries like China, India and Brazil.

With the international launch of the iPad 2 set to begin on Friday, Apple's lead in the global tablet market is expected to widen. Huberty's long-term view of the device projects adoption rates similar to the iPod. Citing weak sales of non-Apple tablets in the first quarter of 2011 and mixed reviews for upcoming devices, Huberty predicts Apple will easily maintain "well north of 50%" of the tablet market.

Huberty maintains a price target of $410 for Apple stock by November 2011. In a bull case scenario, the analyst sees shares of Apple possibly reaching as high as $540, assuming 55 percent iPhone growth and 74 percent iPad growth. According to the analyst, a bear case scenario could see Apple stock drop to $270 due to the possibility of lower margins and concerns over CEO Steve Jobs' health.

Regarding rumors of a Smart TV from Apple, Huberty is not alone in her prediction. Analyst Gene Munster of investment bank Piper Jaffray has long held the belief that Apple will release a connected television in the near future.

"While Apple's commitment to the living room remains a 'hobby,' we continue to believe the company will enter the TV market with a full focus, as an all-in-one Apple television could move the needle when connected TVs proliferate," Munster said in a note to investors earlier this year. Munster sees a rumored $3.9 billion supply investment for display components by Apple as a possible indication of an upcoming connected TV.

Though Munster does not see an Apple-branded TV coming in 2011, he predicts that Apple could sell 1.4 million units in 2012, adding as much as $2.5 billion in revenue to the company's top line.
post #2 of 132
I think Apple needs to buy Comcast. The Cisco RNG-100 box and software is worse than Windows 95. It's actually on par with Windows 3. Apple needs to quit dabbling its toes in the water, and get serious about the living room.
post #3 of 132
To present and future trolls out there and just so that in 5 years time we are clear about this, yes, we are well aware that the TV existed before Apple TV, just as did mobile phones, portable music players and tablet computers. \
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post #4 of 132
That's OKI'm sure the Fandroids will soon be out to tell us how the "soon to be released" Android TV will blow Apple out of the water. Everybody wants their TV to be "Open" after all.

Cripes, I'm remembering trying to help my mother-in-law figure out her TV-VCR setup and trying to picture what an "Open" TV would be like. Now I need a drink!
post #5 of 132
So are we talking about an actual television here? Like a Cinema Display - but bigger - with an Apple TV built in?

I thought the consensus was that there isn't enough margin in TV's to make it something Apple would do... or is the idea to sell the screen low margin like other TV's and then profit from the extra iTunes movie/TV sales?
post #6 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

That's OK... ...Now I need a drink!

Have one for me!

(Remember VHS vs. Betamax?)
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post #7 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

So are we talking about an actual television here? Like a Cinema Display - but bigger - with an Apple TV built in?

I thought the consensus was that there isn't enough margin in TV's to make it something Apple would do... or is the idea to sell the screen low margin like other TV's and then profit from the extra iTunes movie/TV sales?

I guess that in the final analysis, it's a matter of affordable hardware and unbeatable services, the ecosystem. Can Apple be successful there? Guess I know why I am just a spectator! \
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post #8 of 132
Sounds like more fallacies to increase the stock price.
Perhaps it is because I am not an analyst but I do not see how an Apple branded TV could see ever the light of day. Seriously, it is getting old.

The Apple TV is the right strategy for the living room as it works with existing TV sets and serves the intended purpose: to enable the consumption of iTunes content. They can definitely improve on it (2 thumbs up for adding Netflix support but what about Apple TV Apps?) but it cannot be a better product if it were simply integrated with the TV panel.

Let's remember that Apple entered the smartphone and tablet markets because their offerings were disruptive. They were groundbreaking innovations. The Apple TV in its current form is not a game changer and only proved to be a success after a significant price reduction. That says a lot: consumers are not interested to spend a lot of money to get iTunes content on their TV sets.

Unless these highly paid analysts have something insightful that they are not sharing, an Apple branded TV is not a good idea. Apple is better off focusing on its core competencies.
post #9 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

So are we talking about an actual television here? Like a Cinema Display - but bigger - with an Apple TV built in?

I thought the consensus was that there isn't enough margin in TV's to make it something Apple would do... or is the idea to sell the screen low margin like other TV's and then profit from the extra iTunes movie/TV sales?

That's certainly my feeling. And, of course, assorted "analysts" have predicted all kinds of products from Apple over the years that never shipped.

I would love an Apple TV that was price and performance competitive and included some additional functionality, like AirPlay. I just can't see where Apple can do that, however. Samsung are using their own panels and pricing their sets accordingly; by the time Apple assembles the components and puts in some Apple-ness they're obliged to sell a 40" screen for $2,000, which is a non-starter.
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post #10 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant View Post

...Apple is better off focusing on its core competencies.

One could have made that statement 10 years ago! (Not to belittle your argument though. )
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post #11 of 132
Katy Huberty has no inside information. Just more spin from the shyster analysts.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #12 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That's certainly my feeling. And, of course, assorted "analysts" have predicted all kinds of products from Apple over the years that never shipped.

I would love an Apple TV that was price and performance competitive and included some additional functionality, like AirPlay. I just can't see where Apple can do that, however. Samsung are using their own panels and pricing their sets accordingly; by the time Apple assembles the components and puts in some Apple-ness they're obliged to sell a 40" screen for $2,000, which is a non-starter.

Do you think that Apple is getting to the point where it needs an in-house display capability as with processors in the iPad, or at least a capability more directly under their control? Anyone know of investments by Apple in such areas as mems display technologies or other?
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post #13 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

One could have made that statement 10 years ago! (Not to belittle your argument though. )

True but I also stated that Apple enters a market only when they can bring something new.
post #14 of 132
Predict it long enough and it may indeed come, just like the iPad took 7 years to get here from when rumors first started in 2002.

That being said, TVs generally have pretty low margins compared to the price of the product, and the margins needed to make a TV worthwhile would skyrocket the price into rich mans land. And TVs are probably one of the most held onto devices in a home.

They already have a connected box strategy and it looks like they are finally paying some real attention to it. I think they should focus their efforts there.
post #15 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant View Post

Sounds like more fallacies to increase the stock price...

The Apple TV is the right strategy...

... Let's remember that Apple entered the smartphone and tablet markets because their offerings were disruptive...

... Apple is better off focusing on its core competencies.

With all due respect, I disagree:

1) Apple TV could be selling along with an all-in-one Apple branded TV providing more options and choices to consumers, just like you have the Mac mini and the iMac in the computing space. That would be the ideal way to go. You don't want to buy Apple TV set? You want to keep your Sony? No worry, go with Apple set top box instead.

2) Apple could be as disruptive in the TV business as it has been with smartphones. You do not have to go far. Just make the app store available for Apple TV and you'll see the impact. Games my friend. And I'm not even talking about the integration of TV programs with other apps...

3) Whether Apple like it or not, TV will have to be part of their core competencies because it will include a computer in it. Sure, we're talking about a different experience from when you sit in front of a desktop. But if Apple does not do it right, someone else will. You don't want an HP or a Google to eat your lunch. This is just like the tablet. Before iPad, nobody did it right so it seems so irrelevant as a product. However they kept trying because they knew there was something there. It was not really clear what, but there was something. All-in-one TV is the same. Do it right and you'll at least lead a space if not owning it.
post #16 of 132
If Apple brings out a TVand I'm not predicting it; I don't think these "analysts" have any idea what they're talking aboutI think it will just be a display you can hang on your wall. The real functionality will be in the iPad they give you along with it. The big screen will merely mirror what's on the iPad through AirPlay.

This will be the logical endpoint of the evolution of TVs for the last 30 years, which have become progressively more and more useless without the remote, which wears out faster and fasterand are glued together now, so you can't even clean the contact pads without breaking them all to Hell.

So the Apple TV will have a $500 remotebut at least it's a remote that can be replaced and updated.
post #17 of 132
I think apple tv, an external device or built in to the tv, will just provide an os similiar to an iPad with live tv.

I don't think they will be a part of the tv display, rather a comment of it.

Like google tv but better!!
post #18 of 132
Although Google TV has not quite taken off as much as they would have liked most SoCs ( System on Chips ) in modern connected TVs are moving to an Android OS on the application processor ( ARM A9, MIPS 74K, Intel Atom etc ). This means that all the Android APIs are there for developers and once Google gets a foothold it will be very difficult for anyone else to get into this market. That is if Apple would even want to.

I think Apple will stay with the hockey puck STB design. It is simpler and quicker to develop and due to the low price, consumer do no mind replacing it regularly. Contrast with how long most people hold on to their TV set, definitely much longer that they would a computer or any other item of consumer electronics.
post #19 of 132
LOL, the 'smart TV' seems to be taking over from the tablet rumours of years gone by. It would make more sense to license Airplay for video.
post #20 of 132
Rather than build an Apple branded TV I think they will simply extend their Airplay technology. Just as you can now buy iPod speaker systems and hifi systems with Airplay support built in, you will be able to buy TVs with Airplay support built in so you wont need a seperate AppleTV. That way they get a royalty for every TV sold.
post #21 of 132
.

It was rainy and cold last night, so we had a fire going in the family room.

My daughter and 2 of her 3 kids were gathered 'round the HDTV to watch AI (American Idol).

My daughter and I are great basketball fans (Go Arizona) so we wanted to watch the games also -- sometimes as many as 3 running concurrently.

My daughter said we could do split screen or Picture-In-Picture... but we didn't remember how to do it, the shows and games were starting -- no time to dig out the Sony Bravia manual and/or the AT&T U-verse manual...

Long story... even longer:

-- everyone watching American Idol running on the HDTV
-- my daughter (also) watching UCon vs SDSU on her iPad
-- me (also) watching Duke-Ariz on my iPad
-- me also watching BYU-Fla on a second iPad (1 grandson's iPad)
-- second grandson upstairs watching NetFlix on his iPad
-- no channel roulette, no distractions

To summarize, we were concurrently watching 5 different TV shows -- and only one TV set was involved.


The points:

1) Should Apple make an HDTV... No, I don't think they should!

2) Should Apple enhance AppleTV... maybe!

3) What they really should do is make an inexpensive box that sits before the Cable STB, rather than after it:

Wall TV outlet ---> New Apple Box ---> Cable STB

This new Apple box (let's call it the Apple-TV-Server) can decode the TV signals and rebroadcast them over WiFi to any and all computers and iDevices in the home.

In its simplest form it would be just a TV signal to WiFi re-broadcaster, and less than $100. It would replace nothing and require nothing else except an app running on the target devices.

It could evolve to include your Internet Router, ATV, TimeMachine, DVR, iTunes Media Server, etc.

This would eventually revolutionize the TV and eliminate all the STBs -- the typical TV would become a Screen with WiFi and some intelligence to run the app.


I know there are issues to be overcome... but that's exactly why we have revolutions.



“Après moi, le déluge"


Sent from my Smart Apple TV set (iPad)

.
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post #22 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

I guess that in the final analysis, it's a matter of affordable hardware and unbeatable services, the ecosystem. Can Apple be successful there? Guess I know why I am just a spectator! \

Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

That's certainly my feeling. And, of course, assorted "analysts" have predicted all kinds of products from Apple over the years that never shipped.

Cheers. Although the rumor is believable I agree it doesn't confirm anything.

I sometimes wonder just how many years ago Jobs held an iPad prototype in his hands.
post #23 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

.

It was rainy and cold last night...
.

The question I'd like answered Dick, is why the girl sells C cells by the sea shore?

Surely, it's not to power a new wave of devices!
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post #24 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

The question I'd like answered Dick, is why the girl sells C cells by the sea shore?

Surely, it's not to power a new wave of devices!

Sheila, Sheila sittin' in the sea shore sand;
All day long she sits and sifts;
All day long she sifts and sits:

She sits and sifts, she sifts and sits;
She sifts and sits, she sits and sifts;
Sheila, Sheila sittin' in the sea shore sand;
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post #25 of 132
I guess i'm in the minority of wanting an Apple-branded TV, complete with built-in DVR, web features, and Apps.

It seems the next obvious market, as TV 4.0 hits soon.

My fear? The sets will be too high in price. A $2000 TV is not going to sell.

Also, how many screen sizes? They won't have 12 screen sizes like the other manufacturers, i'm sure. But you should have one in the 20-,30-,40-, and 50-class ranges.
post #26 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Sheila, Sheila...

Good try but I got through that one without saying sh..... once!

I have no idea whether Apple is interested in a tv or not, however, if they are it won't be tv as we know it.

(I know, just stating the obvious!)
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post #27 of 132
TVs are large expensive items, so they tend to have a long purchase cycle as far as electronics go. If you just plunked down 2 or 3 grand on a 50 > inch TV, you aren't going to buy a television from Apple anytime soon. Personally, I think they'd be better off folding the features they mentioned into the Apple TV, or offer a next tier up version that includes them. That way people who already have money sunk into a large flatscreen would be more likely to buy another "living room" product from Apple to go with it, and people who already have the relatively inexpensive current Apple TV would be more likely to replace it with something that costs far less than a smart TV, and could even make use of the AppleTV they already have by moving it to the bedroom, or something.
post #28 of 132
TVs are a low-margin business, like printers and scanners. Apple licenses bonjour and airplay (and such) to others to support wireless printing/scanning/audio/video. If Apple wanted to be in low-margin, mature, markets they'd still be selling printers and scanners.

Apple probably has built or retrofitted many prototype TVs with airplay circuitry built in.... to test airplay with multiple hardware configurations (different vendors), and this most likely is the origin of the report. This ensures that when LG, Samsung, etc, come out with airplay-compatible TVs it will just work and there will be no bad press from compatibility issues. This does not mean that Apple will be releasing "Apple" TVs.

AppleInsider: Please continue to publish rumors, but please consult a VP of Common Sense so that his/her comments can be included in the article. Thanks.
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post #29 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Katy Huberty has no inside information. Just more spin from the shyster analysts.

I want to believe.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #30 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQatEdo View Post

Good try but I got through that one without saying sh..... once!

I have no idea whether Apple is interested in a tv or not, however, if they are it won't be tv as we know it.

(I know, just stating the obvious!)

I agree!

But I was only preping you for the hard part (insert appropriate refrain between each verse):


Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a shoe shine shop
All day long she sits and shines
All day long she shines and sits
Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a shoe shine shop

Quote:
Refrain
She sits and shines, she shines and sits;
She shines and sits, she sits and shines;
Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a shoe shine shop.

Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a seamstress shop.
All day long she snips and tucks,
all day long she tucks and snips.
Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a seamstress shop.

Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a Chevrolet.
All day long she sits and shifts
All day long she shifts and sits
Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a Chevrolet.

Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a sheet slitting shop.
All day long she slits her sheets,
all day long her sheets she slits,
Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a sheet slitting shop

Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a Honky-Tonk.
All day long she sips her Schlitz,
all day long her Schlitz she sips,
Sarah, Sarah, sitting in a Honky-Tonk.

...Scheiße

.
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post #31 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by dagamer34 View Post

Predict it long enough and it may indeed come, just like the iPad took 7 years to get here from when rumors first started in 2002.

That being said, TVs generally have pretty low margins compared to the price of the product, and the margins needed to make a TV worthwhile would skyrocket the price into rich mans land. And TVs are probably one of the most held onto devices in a home.

They already have a connected box strategy and it looks like they are finally paying some real attention to it. I think they should focus their efforts there.

If they do do a TV, they are very likely going to continue to sell the Apple TV box. They are going to say anyone can pick up an Apple TV external box, but if you want the true Apple experience you're going to want Apple's TV. Not to mention it's easy to believe they could make triple the cash-profit on a TV than the little box. It's not about making 35% profit on this TV, it's about making more than the little box and it's about getting the living room. When they pretty much know in advance they will sell millions of something it makes it easier to bring down the price, at least a bit anyway. Obviously the price of this product for Apple is going to be crucial. I'm going to take a stab in the dark and say Steve is not going to introduce this product until he can announce the base-model TV for at most $1 dollar under $1,000.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #32 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by replicant View Post

Sounds like more fallacies to increase the stock price.
Perhaps it is because I am not an analyst but I do not see how an Apple branded TV could see ever the light of day. Seriously, it is getting old.

with airplay now every tv is an apple tv and it costs almost zero (well $4) for manufacturers to add airplay in. I predict that within a year most will. And that airplay will evolve. There's no point for apple putting the circuitry in there when (and that's the genius twist) any ipad/iphone of the future can not only act as a controller but use the tv in any way it sees fit, so in essence you keep the same tv like people do for a no. of years,but you can get new features for it so to speak with an el cheapo new apple tv or your new ipad or iphone.

That's the strategy for apple pretty much, they are not idiots to dilute their brand name in the tv biz, but they are making some great devices to interface with a tv.
post #33 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital_Guy View Post

I think Apple needs to buy Comcast. The Cisco RNG-100 box and software is worse than Windows 95. It's actually on par with Windows 3. Apple needs to quit dabbling its toes in the water, and get serious about the living room.

Let me get this straight: Apple should buy Comcast (who now owns NBC) for tens of billions of dollars because you don't like the software on your cable box?

Also, windows 3.1 was great. It's Windows 95 that was horrible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

So are we talking about an actual television here? Like a Cinema Display - but bigger - with an Apple TV built in?

I thought the consensus was that there isn't enough margin in TV's to make it something Apple would do... or is the idea to sell the screen low margin like other TV's and then profit from the extra iTunes movie/TV sales?

Agreed. This rumor doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Steve Jobs has already talked about why Apple isn't getting into this game anytime soon. In fact, the least of the problems is the margin on the hardware. The real issue is the business model the cable industry uses. They are giving away free hardware or renting it on a monthly basis in addition to the television packages. Apple doesn't see a way to make money in this market, which is why the Apple TV is marketed as a gadget/cool toy/hobby. Even building an Apple TV with DVR and all other functions doesn't make sense, because one still needs the cable box. These companies (Comcast, Verizon, etc.) have already invested tens of millions in the infrastructure that maintains and supports the hardware. They're not going to give up that model easily.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love an Apple TV that had blu-ray, DVR and storage. I just don't know that we're going to see it, much less an actual television with all these features.
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post #34 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

LOL, the 'smart TV' seems to be taking over from the tablet rumours of years gone by. It would make more sense to license Airplay for video.

Nah, it has to reach a crescendo of: "Apple must build a TV or they're DOOOOMED!!!" Hasn't quite gotten there yet.
post #35 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaptainK View Post

Although Google TV has not quite taken off as much as they would have liked most SoCs ( System on Chips ) in modern connected TVs are moving to an Android OS on the application processor ( ARM A9, MIPS 74K, Intel Atom etc ). This means that all the Android APIs are there for developers and once Google gets a foothold it will be very difficult for anyone else to get into this market. That is if Apple would even want to.

Do you have any links to info about Android being in "most modern connected TVs"? That seems surprising to me, since most of the connected TVs I've seen have very rudimentary menu systems and nothing at all that functions like an OS.
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post #36 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Let me get this straight: Apple should buy Comcast (who now owns NBC) for tens of billions of dollars because you don't like the software on your cable box?

Comcast's software was great until the sad day it turned sideways and purple and said "powered by Microsoft" in the corner. All they need to do is go back to that.
post #37 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by irnchriz View Post

LOL, the 'smart TV' seems to be taking over from the tablet rumours of years gone by. It would make more sense to license Airplay for video.

It would make sense for Apple to do all three things. Licence Airplay. Sell the Apple TV box. And announce the Apple TV - the TV. Also, worth mentioning I think, they will very likely rename the little black box when they bring out the TV itself.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
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post #38 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by A_K View Post

Apple could be as disruptive in the TV business as it has been with smartphones. You do not have to go far. Just make the app store available for Apple TV and you'll see the impact. Games my friend.

I don't think just apps-in-a-tv would be anywhere near as disruptive as Apple were with smartphones. Apple would need to do a lot more to equal the impact of the iPhone.

Samsung already sell a "Smart TV". I'm not sure how many of these they have sold, but they sell something like 40 million TVs a year.

There is also the Wii, X360 and PS3 which have sold 86 million, 52.6 million and 48.9 million respectively. All three offer online game sales from their equivalent of the iOS App Store.

The PS3 and X360 also support movie and TV rental as well as various other media streaming services such as Netflix, Hulu, ESPN, VidZone, VUDU and Sky Player.

In addition to this PS3 can also act as a PVR and the X360 can act as a cable box (in Australia at least!).

So, like I said... if all Apple do is release a dev kit for the Apple TV (and/or embed it in their own TV) they would no doubt have a successful product, but I don't see it being anywhere near as disruptive as the iPhone was for the smartphone market.

Not unless they do something their competitors aren't already doing...
post #39 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

So are we talking about an actual television here? Like a Cinema Display - but bigger - with an Apple TV built in?

I thought the consensus was that there isn't enough margin in TV's to make it something Apple would do... or is the idea to sell the screen low margin like other TV's and then profit from the extra iTunes movie/TV sales?

My hunch is that Apple would do to TVs what it did to mobile phones: bring out something far better, cooler, and easier than anything ever seen before. And it will be targeted at the high end, at least initially, with nice healthy profit margins built in. They will continue to make their money from selling the hardware but supported by vertically integrated software, services, and inexpensive digital content.

Thompson
post #40 of 132
That would be awesome. Just have iTunes built right in without a separate box. Especially if jailbreak allows for clickr. I still don't understand why this space isnt exploding outside the geeky crowd like everything else did.
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