or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › The Wicked Shall Cease Their Troubling
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

The Wicked Shall Cease Their Troubling

post #1 of 159
Thread Starter 
Only Jesus can and will turn this wrong world Right!!!

"The Wicked Shall Cease Their Troubling" "The weary shall be at rest" All of the Saints of the ages are gonna Sit at His Feet and Be BLESSED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zImxV_HHXLE

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #2 of 159
A related quote:

"Ignorance is bliss."
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #3 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Only Jesus can and will turn this wrong world Right!!!

"The Wicked Shall Cease Their Troubling" "The weary shall be at rest" All of the Saints of the ages are gonna Sit at His Feet and Be BLESSED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zImxV_HHXLE

Fellows

It's a nice sentiment but is it true Fellows?

I mean in Biblical Scripture there is no scheme where the world does actually 'get turned right' by anyone....in fact, quite the contrary.

The end time prophecies of the Bible show the world getting 'more wrong' in fact.

So really, I applaud your sentiments but they are not Scriptural
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #4 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Only Jesus can and will turn this wrong world Right!!!

Who are you trying to convince here?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #5 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's a nice sentiment but is it true Fellows?

I mean in Biblical Scripture there is no scheme where the world does actually 'get turned right' by anyone....in fact, quite the contrary.

The end time prophecies of the Bible show the world getting 'more wrong' in fact.

Sometimes it pays to read right to the end of the book.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
Reply
post #6 of 159
Sometimes it pays to not take fiction literally.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #7 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Sometimes it pays to not take fiction literally.

Sometimes it interesting how people get about things that are "fiction".

Like it hurts them somehow.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #8 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Only Jesus can and will turn this wrong world Right!!!

"The Wicked Shall Cease Their Troubling" "The weary shall be at rest" All of the Saints of the ages are gonna Sit at His Feet and Be BLESSED!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zImxV_HHXLE

Fellows

So I should hang back and wait for him to fix everything?
post #9 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's a nice sentiment but is it true Fellows?

I mean in Biblical Scripture there is no scheme where the world does actually 'get turned right' by anyone....in fact, quite the contrary.

The end time prophecies of the Bible show the world getting 'more wrong' in fact.

So really, I applaud your sentiments but they are not Scriptural

What I mean by the statement is that many in the world are looking for answers and this is to be applauded and there is much progress in our world. However I believe that many people are hungering for something more with real Truth and Authority. Only Jesus can provide this in my view.

Not the republican party, Not the democratic party, Not the Baptists, Not the Catholics, But Jesus himself can and does turn what is intended for bad around for good. I am not saying that Baptists , Catholics, Republicans, or Democrats can't do some good I am only suggesting that this is not the place to look. All groups are flawed and fall short of the Glory of God. Jesus however is not flawed.

What I basically meant with the statement was that many of us mere people here on the planet are searching for some leadership from within our ranks to turn back the evil we see in this world.

I believe only Jesus can restore what was once lost to being fully restored.

Not Barack Obama. Not some desire for robots in Japan to cool the failed nuclear reactor.

Not Nato. Not the UN. Not the democrats, Not the republicans, Not the Americans, Not the Saudis and on and on...

But Jesus can bring peace and will. He is the prince of Peace. The Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

The Gospel is Good News.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #10 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

So I should hang back and wait for him to fix everything?

Not at all. Abide in him and become a disciple of his. Walk with him. Love your neighbor as yourself, Serve you neighbor. Don't condemn others but share love with them. When you partake in God's work your heart is transformed and your mind is renewed. This in part can lead to more peace as it is shared with others. Go and share the good news.

Please don't just sit by. The world needs healing and we can share in the healing process. It is not naive to want to share love in a toxic world. It is humane, just and right. And it blesses the soul.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #11 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Sometimes it interesting how people get about things that are "fiction".

Like it hurts them somehow.

It does when people vote based on this fiction. It does when I'm treated like a second-class citizen.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #12 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

What I mean by the statement is that many in the world are looking for answers and this is to be applauded and there is much progress in our world. However I believe that many people are hungering for something more with real Truth and Authority. Only Jesus can provide this in my view.

Not the republican party, Not the democratic party, Not the Baptists, Not the Catholics, But Jesus himself can and does turn what is intended for bad around for good.

What I basically meant with the statement was that many of us mere people here on the planet are searching for some leadership from within our ranks to turn back the evil we see in this world.

I believe only Jesus can restore what was once lost to being fully restored.

Not Barack Obama. Not some desire for robots in Japan to cool the failed nuclear reactor.

Not Nato. Not the UN. Not the democrats, Not the republicans, Not the Americans, Not the Saudis and on and on...

But Jesus can bring peace and will. He is the prince of Peace. The Lord of Lords and King of Kings.

The Gospel is Good News.

Fellows

Again, it really doesn't sound like you're trying to convince us.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #13 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Again, it really doesn't sound like you're trying to convince us.

I can't make anyone believe something they don't. It is truly up to each his or her own choices to follow that which enriches the soul and the heart and mind.

As for me it is without question what I believe. I am not wearing this as some kind of badge. I share this because it truly gives me uncontainable Joy and I can't tell you how thankful I am for Jesus.

I am thankful in the most profound and meaningful way. I want others to enjoy this as well but I certainly am not in any position to even desire forcing any belief upon anyone.

I respect others.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #14 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It does when people vote based on this fiction. It does when I'm treated like a second-class citizen.

BR we all are treated as second class citizens at times and I am not justifying this as I despise it. But if you believe a certain way and this results in rebuking from others this is true for many world views including Christian belief.

If your world view is solid to you let it support you and don't fret upon your external circumstances.

I don't care if you are Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Gay, Straight, Athiest, or from any religious background don't allow yourself to be defeated. Stand up for yourself. Respect yourself and others.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #15 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

I can't make anyone believe something they don't. It is truly up to each his or her own choices to follow that which enriches the soul and the heart and mind.

As for me it is without question what I believe. I am not wearing this as some kind of badge. I share this because it truly gives me uncontainable Joy and I can't tell you how thankful I am for Jesus.

I am thankful in the most profound and meaningful way. I want others to enjoy this as well but I certainly am not in any position to even desire forcing any belief upon anyone.

I respect others.

Fellows

Again, it really doesn't seem like you are trying to convince others.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #16 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

BR we all are treated as second class citizens at times and I am not justifying this as I despise it. But if you believe a certain way and this results in rebuking from others this is true for many world views including Christian belief.

If your world view is solid to you let it support you and don't fret upon your external circumstances.

I don't care if you are Black, White, Hispanic, Asian, Gay, Straight, Athiest, or from any religious background don't allow yourself to be defeated. Stand up for yourself. Respect yourself and others.

Fellows

Did you join a new church recently or something?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #17 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Again, it really doesn't seem like you are trying to convince others.

He's not. But he's also not trying to convince who you think he is either.

A message is simply that. Accept it at face value or not. Believe it or don't. Try to get the positive value out of it or see it as something negative. These are all your choices and there may be others as well.

As for your previous message. I am sorry that you feel put upon by others. I am also sorry to see you reflect much of that back here on this board. I may disagree with you and I might voice anger at some of the things you have stated, but I have also tried to befriend you. You don't have to change your beliefs. You don't have to accept mine. But we should be able to discuss them, argue over them and still see eye to eye at the end. Even if we still disagree. And I will tell you if I disagree, but that does not mean I think you are a second class citizen. Not even slightly.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #18 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

What I mean by the statement is that many in the world are looking for answers and this is to be applauded and there is much progress in our world. However I believe that many people are hungering for something more with real Truth and Authority. Only Jesus can provide this in my view.

Why do you have this view? Would you mind discussing what formed it - respectfully, it's quite safe.

What I mean is have you tried all the religions? Tested them?

Why can't you say for example "There are many ways - but Jesus is the one that works for me".

This sort of exclusivism smacks to me of tribalism and maybe a little doubt.

I don't get it.... I am a believer of sorts but I don't think I have the 'only way' or even that there is one. I'm quite happy to believe that you and even BR are on the right path - for YOU (I know both you and BR think that you have the sole truth but that doesn't stop me hahahaha ) and will probably both get to 'heaven'.

I just don't get this 'my way is the only way' stuff.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #19 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

He's not. But he's also not trying to convince who you think he is either.

A message is simply that. Accept it at face value or not. Believe it or don't. Try to get the positive value out of it or see it as something negative. These are all your choices and there may be others as well.

As for your previous message. I am sorry that you feel put upon by others. I am also sorry to see you reflect much of that back here on this board. I may disagree with you and I might voice anger at some of the things you have stated, but I have also tried to befriend you. You don't have to change your beliefs. You don't have to accept mine. But we should be able to discuss them, argue over them and still see eye to eye at the end. Even if we still disagree. And I will tell you if I disagree, but that does not mean I think you are a second class citizen. Not even slightly.

We are supposed to be One Nation, Indivisible. But you godfolk just can't let that be. When I get into a classroom, I'm going to have to either have my patriotism questioned or be forced to utter a false oath when I recite the pledge of allegiance in the morning. Get your fucking gods out of our fucking government. E pluribus unum was good enough for the founders and that should god damn well be good enough for us now.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #20 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

We are supposed to be One Nation, Indivisible. But you godfolk just can't let that be. When I get into a classroom, I'm going to have to either have my patriotism questioned or be forced to utter a false oath when I recite the pledge of allegiance in the morning. Get your fucking gods out of our fucking government. E pluribus unum was good enough for the founders and that should god damn well be good enough for us now.

Why not maybe 'get your fucking patriotism out'?

You are surprising me more and more these days BR - patriotism ??? Ffs.....

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #21 of 159
It looks like BR is angry again and there might even be some spittle on his computer monitor.

Relax BR. It is quite possible to peacefully co-exist with 99% of the people of faith be they Christians, Jews, Muslims, atheists, whatever. I know I do, every single day.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #22 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Not at all. Abide in him and become a disciple of his. Walk with him. Love your neighbor as yourself, Serve you neighbor. Don't condemn others but share love with them. When you partake in God's work your heart is transformed and your mind is renewed. This in part can lead to more peace as it is shared with others. Go and share the good news.

Please don't just sit by. The world needs healing and we can share in the healing process. It is not naive to want to share love in a toxic world. It is humane, just and right. And it blesses the soul.

Fellows

Oh good I got that shit covered without the whole God/Jesus stuff.
post #23 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Oh good I got that shit covered without the whole God/Jesus stuff.

Still can't help thinking there might be some missing ingredients though.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #24 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

Still can't help thinking there might be some missing ingredients though.....

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #25 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

We are supposed to be One Nation, Indivisible. But you godfolk just can't let that be. When I get into a classroom, I'm going to have to either have my patriotism questioned or be forced to utter a false oath when I recite the pledge of allegiance in the morning. Get your fucking gods out of our fucking government. E pluribus unum was good enough for the founders and that should god damn well be good enough for us now.

That I cannot help, change, or otherwise take responsibility for except to say I have no problem with the pledge as it stands. I do not force you to say it. And when you do say it I do not force you to repeat the words, under God, in the process. The pledge was changed before my time. I will not try to distance myself from the words "you godfolk" except to say, I am not sure who you are covering with that phrase.

If you don't like the words in the pledge. Omit them. Suddenly, your problem there is solved. Or simply skip the pledge altogether. You have that right too.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #26 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

Oh good I got that shit covered without the whole God/Jesus stuff.

With yourself and BR let me illustrate it with this visual.

Lets say you are sitting at a bar in the extended room and a waitress asks if you would like a beer. If you say... "No thanks I am good" I think that pretty much takes care of the communication.

Not to equate Jesus with a beer offered by a waitress but I felt maybe this illustration would be easier for you and BR to grasp as a concept.

I am not forcing you to drink a beer you don't want.

There you go guys...

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #27 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


Why can't you say for example "There are many ways - but Jesus is the one that works for me".

Simple answer: because I don't believe there are "many ways" If I did then I would hold a different view.

Quote:
This sort of exclusivism smacks to me of tribalism and maybe a little doubt.

Call it what you want. For me it is not about tribalism or doubt.
Quote:
I don't get it.... I am a believer of sorts but I don't think I have the 'only way' or even that there is one. I'm quite happy to believe that you and even BR are on the right path - for YOU (I know both you and BR think that you have the sole truth but that doesn't stop me hahahaha ) and will probably both get to 'heaven'.

If you don't think you "have" the "only way" that's fine by me Seg. I have no problem with that.
Quote:
I just don't get this 'my way is the only way' stuff.

That is perfectly ok man. I am not going to insist that you "get it"

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #28 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

With yourself and BR let me illustrate it with this visual.

Lets say you are sitting at a bar in the extended room and a waitress asks if you would like a beer. If you say... "No thanks I am good" I think that pretty much takes care of the communication.

Not to equate Jesus with a beer offered by a waitress but I felt maybe this illustration would be easier for you and BR to grasp as a concept.

I am not forcing you to drink a beer you don't want.

There you go guys...

Fellows

It's a bit disingenuous though Fellows.... you may not be forcing anything (I have my doubts about what BR might countenance given the right - or wrong - circumstances) but that is not the point.

You are still exerting a kind of pressure by maintaing that the beer is the only drink that is 'real' and that there are penalties for drinking other types of beverage.

I don't see:

a) where that comes from (in the human psyche I mean - I know where it comes from in doctrine)

b) Why anyone would - or would want - to believe it

c) why people do not see it is an unspiritual and possibly immoral - certainly unethical - position.

You never really answered my question about why you think like this.

The way I see it we are all - those of us interested in these matters - on a search for truth. And to find the truth one needs logic and reason.

So one should always be prepared to discuss and analyse....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #29 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post

It's a bit disingenuous though Fellows.... you may not be forcing anything (I have my doubts about what BR might countenance given the right - or wrong - circumstances) but that is not the point.

You are still exerting a kind of pressure by maintaing that the beer is the only drink that is 'real' and that there are penalties for drinking other types of beverage.

I don't see:

a) where that comes from (in the human psyche I mean - I know where it comes from in doctrine)

b) Why anyone would - or would want - to believe it

c) why people do not see it is an unspiritual and possibly immoral - certainly unethical - position.

You never really answered my question about why you think like this.

The way I see it we are all - those of us interested in these matters - on a search for truth. And to find the truth one needs logic and reason.

So one should always be prepared to discuss and analyse....

a) I believe Jesus is who he said he was. Not about human psyche or doctrine as for myself.

b) Well I wonder that about many things people believe but I allow for their beliefs. I don't have to agree with others but for goodness sake I can be civil and pluralistic about their freedom to believe what ever they decide to.

c) You can see things however you wish to see them Seg. Not to put words into your mouth that you never said but... "If anything is truth to you except for my faith in Jesus then you are allowed to believe that ANYTHING but Fellow's Faith in Jesus is Truth and his (my) version of believing is unspiritual, possibly immoral and unethical. If this is truth that you can believe in then by all means don't let silly me get in the way.

I am serious here.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #30 of 159
[QUOTE=Fellowship;1836258]

You are misunderstanding me Fellows. I am not questioning your belief - I am merely asking why you believe you are exclusively right and HOW you arrived at that position.

Out it this way: if there is a heaven I believe you may well be in there and even - at a stretch BR - alongside me, maybe we will have learnt things and can continue our discussions on a more elevated level.

But I do not think - and apologies if I am wrong - that you actually DO believe that I and BR will be there to do that.

So my question is why? And how did you reach this position? I'm not looking to argue..I am genuinely interested in why some people think like this in a religious context because it is foreign to me.

Quote:
a) I believe Jesus is who he said he was. Not about human psyche or doctrine as for myself.

But why? How do you know he said he was what you believe he was? There is much evidence against your position and I'm just trying to see on what basis you are rejecting it.

Quote:
b) Well I wonder that about many things people believe but I allow for their beliefs. I don't have to agree with others but for goodness sake I can be civil and pluralistic about their freedom to believe what ever they decide to..

We're not talking about freedom - we're talking about the NATURE of beliefs and why people adopt them. At least I am.

An example: I believe certain beliefs are wrong - not religious ones necessarily, let's say racist beliefs. I accept people can believe racist things, they are free to do so BUT I THINK THEY ARE WRONG. As in immoral.

And I can argue this position. And I will.

But if Christians really believe that "I am free to believe what I want but I am wrong" then they should likewise argue WHY. Morally I mean.

But they don't.....this 'love the sinner, hate the sin' just doesn't cut it.

We need to know WHY...who knows...we may even convert!

Quote:
c) You can see things however you wish to see them Seg. Not to put words into your mouth that you never said but... "If anything is truth to you except for my faith in Jesus then you are allowed to believe that ANYTHING but Fellow's Faith in Jesus is Truth and his (my) version of believing is unspiritual, possibly immoral and unethical. If this is truth that you can believe in then by all means don't let silly me get in the way.

BUt that's not what I said....I believe you may have a version of the truth just as Mr X may have a version of the truth. None of us can possibly know.

Not you and not an atheist claiming there is no God.

So why say that "THE ONLY WAY IS JESUS".

This is just the flip-side of BRs "GOD DOES NOT EXIST".

Quote:
I am serious here.

Me too. I feel strongly about it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #31 of 159
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by segovius View Post


But if Christians really believe that "I am free to believe what I want but I am wrong" then they should likewise argue WHY. Morally I mean.

They have for ages and do. Where have you been hiding?

Quote:
But they don't.....this 'love the sinner, hate the sin' just doesn't cut it.

Well I don't care to hate "the sinner" or to Love the sin.
Quote:
We need to know WHY...who knows...we may even convert!

Jesus never asked for anyone to convert anyone. He said Go and make Disciples.



Quote:
I believe you may have a version of the truth just as Mr X may have a version of the truth.

But you see it is not about "my" truth as far as I am even concerned. It is about God's Truth.
Quote:
None of us can possibly know.

Indeed this is why it is called faith.



John 14: 6

I will be back later on.. Gotta run some errands and PRAISE GOD!

Love ya Seg.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #32 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

They have for ages and do. Where have you been hiding?

I have yet to hear the logical arguments. I hear a lot of Scripture quoting but reasoned analysis not so much

Quote:
Well I don't care to hate "the sinner" or to Love the sin.

No..I appreciate that...you are an exception. I think you try to be tolerant and inclusive and perhaps loving even, though I don't know never having met you but I'm talking about the over-reaching doctrine.

One does not have to follow things wholemeal. One can find reasons for things one disagrees with.

For example, in all my Islamic sympathies I do not find it necessary to believe that one should stone people or cut their hands off etc.

So I research - and what do I find? That these things are just inventions of men...though millions of Mullahs would deny that.

Same in Christianity - when I hear about gays (or anyone else) roasting in hell I also have pause.

Because I know one thing: if God exists - IF - then HE is not a vengeful, hateful God. So right there I narrow down the possibilities and exclude the vast majority of possible religious thought from my search.

It's important.

Quote:
Jesus never asked for anyone to convert anyone. He said Go and make Disciples.

Again....did he? How do we know? Why do we have to just accept this stuff?

You may say it says so in the Bible but does it? Did it originally? Do we really want to know....I do....but do religious people?

Quote:
John 14: 6

Again...that is not logical and rational argument. It is a quote.

Logically and rationally we need to examine many things: who was this John? Did he write it? Did he know Christ? Has his book been tampered with over millennia?

Why take all this on trust?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #33 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

That I cannot help, change, or otherwise take responsibility for except to say I have no problem with the pledge as it stands. I do not force you to say it. And when you do say it I do not force you to repeat the words, under God, in the process. The pledge was changed before my time. I will not try to distance myself from the words "you godfolk" except to say, I am not sure who you are covering with that phrase.

If you don't like the words in the pledge. Omit them. Suddenly, your problem there is solved. Or simply skip the pledge altogether. You have that right too.

I may have the right to skip the pledge, but it also could put my job in jeopardy if I get parents bitching to the administration. And of course, the original pledge did not involve god at all. It was "One Nation, Indivisible." Then the Knights of Columbus lobbied the shit out of Congress and combined with fears of Communism, the pledge was changed to something VERY divisive.

So, fuck your altered bullshit divisive pledge. We are supposed to be One Nation, Indivisible. E PLURIBUS UNUM. All of the wonderful ideals this country was founded on utterly shit upon by the religious right.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #34 of 159
And Fellows, since you opened the door...there's a wonderful Bad Religion song off their most recent album, "The Dissent of Man," that addresses your original point.

Quote:
Won't Somebody

Out in the cold like a bundle of coal
Little packets of darkness wanting to glow
Well, there's nobody home and there's a wreck in the yard
Well maybe they're coming back
If we wish really hard
If we wish real hard now

Won't somebody please come up with something
'Cause Jesus just don't seem to be impartially working

And all of the rest are really down in the ratings
So everyone is gonna keep on waiting

Waiting for peace at the end of the street
Back behind our apartment and in passenger seats
Just a moment of bliss amid all of the waste
The despair and oblivion of our precarious race
It’s ours to face now


Won't somebody please come up with something
'Cause Jesus just don't seem to be impartially working
And all of the rest are really down in the ratings
So everyone is gonna keep on waiting

Now, I know nothing lasts forever
So we might as well wish for a goddamn fix
Of this toxic changing weather

Now tell me
Won’t somebody please come up with something
'Cause Jesus just don’t seem to be impartially working
And all of the others can barely stay in the running
So everyone is still right here waiting

Won’t somebody please come up with something
Won’t somebody please come up with something
Won’t somebody please...

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #35 of 159
Why.

Why do you believe Jesus is who he said he is?

Why is Mohammehd (sp?) NOT who he claimed to be?

Why is Joseph Smith NOT telling us the truth?

Why do you not believe that Zeus is the supreme being? (Stories about him have been around much longer than stories about J.C.Waterwalker.)
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #36 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

With yourself and BR let me illustrate it with this visual.

Lets say you are sitting at a bar in the extended room and a waitress asks if you would like a beer. If you say... "No thanks I am good" I think that pretty much takes care of the communication.

Not to equate Jesus with a beer offered by a waitress but I felt maybe this illustration would be easier for you and BR to grasp as a concept.

I am not forcing you to drink a beer you don't want.

There you go guys...

Fellows

If Jesus is beer then I'm bellying up.
post #37 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I may have the right to skip the pledge, but it also could put my job in jeopardy if I get parents bitching to the administration.

You're a teacher? In a government school?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

Reply
post #38 of 159
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I may have the right to skip the pledge, but it also could put my job in jeopardy if I get parents bitching to the administration. And of course, the original pledge did not involve god at all. It was "One Nation, Indivisible." Then the Knights of Columbus lobbied the shit out of Congress and combined with fears of Communism, the pledge was changed to something VERY divisive.

So, fuck your altered bullshit divisive pledge. We are supposed to be One Nation, Indivisible. E PLURIBUS UNUM. All of the wonderful ideals this country was founded on utterly shit upon by the religious right.

Interesting. I am fairly certain that my kids have not said the pledge in public school for the past few years. Most of the kids these days don't even know the pledge. They come into boy scouts and have to be taught that, and a few other staples from my youth like the star spangled banner for instance. It is good to know that some public schools still do the pledge. However, i am still fairly certain that your job would not be lost if you did not say the pledge. There is plenty of legal precedent that would protect you form that type of action. Or if you simply said one nation (pause) indivisible, I doubt many if any would notice. However it is your right to be angry about it if you want to.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #39 of 159
But with unions being stripped of power and being on probation the first two years once I'm in a classroom...yeah...can't rock the boat.

Why's the original pledge and motto not good enough for you? You really think that "In God We Trust" is really better than "E Pluribus Unum" in describing what America is supposed to be about? You really think that "One Nation, Indivisible" isn't more powerful a statement?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #40 of 159
When I saw this thread I first thought that trumptman had decided to move on
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: PoliticalOutsider
AppleInsider › Forums › Other Discussion › AppleOutsider › PoliticalOutsider › The Wicked Shall Cease Their Troubling