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iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output - Page 4

post #121 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

And they haven't. The headline says quite clearly: "sneaks closer" It does not say they are there now ... it does not say they are almost there .... it just says they are closer now than they were before. People! ... this is not rocket science ... read all the words before getting your heart rate blown all out of proportion. Jeez louise, even.

Even after years of being a member of this forum its still the same posters that cant seem to achieve even a modicum of reading comprehension. Sometimes it seems like intentional trolling and other times it seems like they are just too stupid to understand the difference. I certainly dont which one it is but tend to opt to thinking they are trolls as it at least makes it a willing ignorance on their part.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #122 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408 View Post

If OnLive can do it over the Internet, why couldn't Apple do it over a WiFi network?

I had never heard of this service. Sounds interesting. Could Apple possibly add it to their AppleTV the way they added YouTube and Netflix, or is there some other HW component needed for the AppleTV device?

How robust are the games? How much of the game is downloaded to the device? What is the quality of game play?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #123 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

I can't help thinking how ridiculous it looks having that unwieldy HDMI breakout adapter hanging off the side of the iPad. A wifi connection between the iPad and TV would be so much more elegant.

When the AppleTV 2 came out, Jobs commented in one of his rare email replies that when the time was right there would be apps on the device.

I think that this is the kind of thing he was talking about. Using the ATV as the 'console' and either an ipad/iphone/touch as the controller. Games, perhaps even some apps like Keynote (the ATV sends out just the slides and you have your ipad as the remote/notes version)

A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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A non tech's thoughts on Apple stuff 

(She's family so I'm a little biased)

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post #124 of 169
There is a way of doing this that people seem to have neglected to mention although a couple have come close.

Streaming to an AppleTV is the dumbest idea ever because there is always going to be a lag. It's not a well thought out idea.

However, Chopper 2 has shown us streaming to AppleTV isn't needed.

Why not just have the iPad on a stand that allows landscape mode so that you can see the map and data while using an iPhone/iPod Touch as the controller. This way it doesn't matter about the lead and you can sit back on the couch and play.

If this isn't the idea behind a console then I don't know what is.

And for the detractors about the iPad being a gaming console the Wii is lower quality than the PS3 and XBox 360 and yet it sells more consoles. Why? Because the games are fun to play. Play Resident Evil 4 on the Wii compared to the other consoles and straight away you see the difference. It is way more fun to play on the Wii than the other consoles because it's so much easier to control.

So long as the game is playable, fun, and easy to pick up people ultimately don't care about graphics because they are so absorbed in the game that they don't notice. If the only thing you've got for people to like your game is graphics then you've failed miserably. People will tire of it.

Real Racing 2 is a fantastic game that is instantly pickupable and playable and fun. The graphics push the iPad to the limit so it really is a fantastic alrounder.

The iPad will make a great console despite the naysayers.
post #125 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Anything worth doing -- is worth doing right!


Anything worth doing -- is worth doing badly!


Think about this for a minute -- If something needs to be done, the most important thing is that it gets done. Doing it right is desirable, but not necessary -- doing it badly is better than not doing it at all.


I was around in 1978 when the Apple ][ came out -- it had the ability to display 40x40 blocks of graphics in 16 colors -- it came with "Breakout" a Pong-like game.

It wasn't as good as a "Pong" machine -- but it was good enough, and cost a lot less.

Two points:

1) Breakout was good enough to approximate Pong.

2) Good enough brought the experience into a new venue -- the home!


Some will argue, but Doing Pong badly on an Apple ][ was one of the seminal influences of what gaming is today.


Monkey Ball on the iPad really sucks -- except compared to not having Monkey Ball on the iPad.

AIR, MonkeyBall was one of the first games shown on the iPhone (late 2007 - early 2008).

Monkey Ball has gotten better and so have the hundreds of thousands of multitouch games that followed.

Also the iPhone hardware has gotten better and proliferated into a family of iDevices.

We are at the very birth of portable/mobile/multiplayer multitouch games... with much to follow.


What will happen when someone releases a killer game that can only be run on an iPad -- with it's portability, touchscreen, cameras, accelerometers, gyroscope, etc.?


If iMovie, GarageBand and some of the other apps are any indication, the iPad has a convergence of capabilities that allow experiences to be done better than any other known way.


What/When will be the first game experience for which people will buy the iPad?

wow, there is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start.

There were two graphics modes, a low res mode that was 40x48 x 16 colors and a high res mode that was 280x192 by 4 colors.

Breakout for the Apple ][ wasn't a bad version of Pong, it was pretty much a perfect recreation of the quite popular arcade game Atari Breakout - a game which Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak created for Atari before they founded Apple. They didn't settle for "good enough", a key design criteria was to be able to recreate the entire breakout experience by programming it in Basic. This was a driving force behind the requirements for the programming language they built, the graphics they built, and even the i/o on the computer (i.e. the game ports). They didn't do breakout instead of pong because they couldn't pull off Pong. They did Breakout instead of Pong because Breakout was the more current.

Quote:
Breakout directly influenced Steve Wozniak's design for the Apple II computer — "A lot of features of the Apple II went in because I had designed Breakout for Atari. I had designed it in hardware. I wanted to write it in software now."[12] This included his design of color graphics circuitry and the now infamous beep and click sound circuitry. It also directly influenced his design of Integer BASIC (which he referred to as "Game Basic"), with his Integer BASIC version of Breakout being the first "proof of concept" application running on the prototype Apple II. His desire to play Breakout on his new computer also led to the addition of a paddle interface, and ultimately the bundling of paddle controllers and a cassette tape containing the code for Breakout for the Apple II's commercial release.

For the HiRes graphics, there was a game Apple Invaders game that was pretty much a perfect copy of the quite popular Space Invaders arcade game.

Under Steve Jobs, Apple has never released anything that was done badly just to release something. Quite the contrary, they have at times waited years to enter markets, scraping design after design, until they could do things well.
post #126 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

When the AppleTV 2 came out, Jobs commented in one of his rare email replies that when the time was right there would be apps on the device.

I think that this is the kind of thing he was talking about. Using the ATV as the 'console' and either an ipad/iphone/touch as the controller. Games, perhaps even some apps like Keynote (the ATV sends out just the slides and you have your ipad as the remote/notes version)


I think that what you say is part of it:

1) the static app (logic, controls, boilerplate, static content, etc.) normally resides on another box on the WiFi network
-- a Mac or PC running iTunes
-- an iTunes Server

2) the static app also resides on the iPad for portability - to temporarily interface an ATV in another location
-- a friend's house
-- a client's office
-- a school room
-- a pizza restaurant for a team party or birthday party

3) the static app content is cross-loaded from the fastest, most accessible device to the ATV being used -- where it acts as a player
-- it remains on the ATV until it needs to be overwritten for other uses
-- if cross-loaded from an iPad to a foreign ATV (not authorized) the ATV cannot "play" when connection to the source iPad is removed.

4) The iPad becomes the controller/dynamic content provider (or one of several -- for multiplayer games)
-- minimal data is dynamically exchanged between the iPad and ATV
-- accelerometer, gyroscope, xy multitouch coordinates for games
-- touches begin...touches end for drawing, telestrating, pinch zoom, etc
-- pointer position (xy touch) next slide #, annotation, transition swipes for KeyNote

What you have is an intelligent player with static content on the ipad communicating with an intelligent player with the same static content on the ATV.

Mostly, short bursts of dynamic positional data is exchanged and each player updates it's displayed content accordingly

Occasionally play will generate anticipated dynamic content, e.g. an explosion after a hit opponent in a game -- this would be handled separately, but concurrently, by each player.

Occasionally, one player will generate unanticipated dynamic content -- in this case the content will be exchanged and buffered (synced) on both players.

Done properly, there should be little WiFi traffic, latency or noticeable delay.

.
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post #127 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I had never heard of this service. Sounds interesting. Could Apple possibly add it to their AppleTV the way they added YouTube and Netflix, or is there some other HW component needed for the AppleTV device?

How robust are the games? How much of the game is downloaded to the device? What is the quality of game play?

None of the game is downloaded, it streams like a Youtube video and it can be added to ATV very easily. It's already on the iPad but just the viewer. It's a free app so you just download and start playing. The only real flaws are you can get lag over wifi and see some compression artifacts.

It would instantly bridge the performance gap between the iPad and consoles and bring the big titles. The only problem is Apple make no money on it but I don't see why they couldn't have a subscription via iTunes and take a cut.

People will still buy games to play where they don't have a connection.
post #128 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I am/was unaware of PSN. When did PSN become available?

The same time as the PS3 was released I believe, around Nov 2006, I've had a PSN account since around July 2007. The PS3 has supported a digital download market since then, it came to the PSP a few years later I believe. If I purchase a PS3 game via the PSN market I can download it to all of my PS3s
post #129 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Even after years of being a member of this forum its still the same posters that cant seem to achieve even a modicum of reading comprehension. Sometimes it seems like intentional trolling and other times it seems like they are just too stupid to understand the difference. I certainly dont which one it is but tend to opt to thinking they are trolls as it at least makes it a willing ignorance on their part.

Still posting the same rubbish you always do I see.
post #130 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

And they haven't. The headline says quite clearly: "sneaks closer" It does not say they are there now ... it does not say they are almost there .... it just says they are closer now than they were before. People! ... this is not rocket science ... read all the words before getting your heart rate blown all out of proportion. Jeez louise, even.

So what you are saying is, this is another waste of time Daniel article?
post #131 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

wow, there is so much wrong with this that I don't even know where to start.

There were two graphics modes, a low res mode that was 40x48 x 16 colors and a high res mode that was 280x192 by 4 colors.

I bought my Apple ][ in July 1978. In December of 1978, with 2 partners I opened the 5th computer store in Siicon Valley -- 7/10 of a mile from Bandley 1 (Apple Headquarters).

Being close to Apple, and the Best Apple retailer in Silicon Valley -- we had a constant stream of Apple employees in our store -- from the 2 Steves, Wiggington, Andy, Chris, Bill, Wil, Wendell, Scottie... yadda, yadda, yadda.

These guys would drop by to tell us some questions (about what was coming) and do impromptu demos for several hours. Woz, in particular, usually had a coterie of camp followers: Cap'n Crunch (when out on parole), Tog, etc. -- lot's of people who were being recruited by Apple.

We sold mainly Apple ][ computers in the early days (a few NorthStars, and Altairs).

I certainly know about the GR and HGR modes on the Apple ][.

I used the low-res example so as not to confuse the issue with too much data.

Quote:
Breakout for the Apple ][ wasn't a bad version of Pong, it was pretty much a perfect recreation of the quite popular arcade game Atari Breakout - a game which Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak created for Atari before they founded Apple. They didn't settle for "good enough", a key design criteria was to be able to recreate the entire breakout experience by programming it in Basic. This was a driving force behind the requirements for the programming language they built, the graphics they built, and even the i/o on the computer (i.e. the game ports). They didn't do breakout instead of pong because they couldn't pull off Pong. They did Breakout instead of Pong because Breakout was the more current.

Apple "Breakout" was single player -- so in that way, it was a bad implementation of Pong.

Quote:
For the HiRes graphics, there was a game Apple Invaders game that was pretty much a perfect copy of the quite popular Space Invaders arcade game.

AIR, the first Hi-Res graphics program for sale was programmed by Tog (Bruce Tognazzini) and sold through ComputerLand of SF.

But, again... this is too much information and only confuses the example.

Quote:
Under Steve Jobs, Apple has never released anything that was done badly just to release something. Quite the contrary, they have at times waited years to enter markets, scraping design after design, until they could do things well.

In my example, if you care to reread it: Baldy means doing something that needs to be done as well as you can -- even if you can't do it perfectly (or as good as it will eventually become).

I maintain, that AppleTV 1 (and to some extent ATV 2) are good examples of this. They coud have done a lot more.


The whole point of my post (which you seemed to have missed) -- is that Apple is poised to revolutionize gaming by changing the venue from the console to the iPad/ATV.

From a FPS or TPS perspective this won't deliver results compared to the consoles (and satisfy the so-called gaming elite)-- but it will be good enough in this badly done implementation to dominate the industry.

.
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"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
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post #132 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

The same time as the PS3 was released I believe, around Nov 2006, I've had a PSN account since around July 2007. The PS3 has supported a digital download market since then, it came to the PSP a few years later I believe. If I purchase a PS3 game via the PSN market I can download it to all of my PS3s

Mmm... Thx.

The family had a CameCube -- which subsequently broke & got replaced with another. They had at least 4 GameBoys which all broke.

I am not a gamer, but the kids were all hot for the Wii (in 2006-2007) and had about 30 GC games.

AIR, at that time The PS didn't have many games and was mainly being bought for the BR disk.

I looked into BR as a backup medium and as a high-quality Video medium.

I decided that there was not enough advantage to justify the expense (we then had about 300 DVDs)

So with the BR mitigated, the "iffy" status of the XBox, the kids game collection and desires -- the Wii was the logical choice.

Now, we are migrating to the iPad.

.
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post #133 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

So what you are saying is, this is another waste of time Daniel article?

You seem to be a perfect example of an education system promoting a "student" before they're ready. You read .... but you don't "see". That's so pathetic it has to be "on purpose" on your part .... so I'm calling Troll .... because to think otherwise would just be too sad. \
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Apple, bigger than Google, ..... bigger than Microsoft,   The universe is unfolding as it should. Thanks, Apple.
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post #134 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by emulator View Post

Of course not. I beat real racing 2 in two hours, you can imagine it took quite a lot doing the same for Forza3 or GT5 (not even finished it yet).

Real Racing 2 looks very nice indeed, for casual gamers, but you are correct, it just far from the look of GT5 or Shift 2.

Bullshit.

There are 120 races in career mode, you spent 1 minute on each race without spending time tuning or upgrading each of 30 cars:-

Quote:
30 Officially Licensed Cars
The 30 meticulously detailed cars in Real Racing 2 are:


BMW\t2010 BMW M6 Competition Edition
2010 BMW M3 GTS
2009 BMW M3 GT2
2010 BMW Z4 sDrive35is
2006 BMW Z4 M Coupe Race Car


Chevrolet\t2010 Chevrolet Cobalt SS
2010 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2010 Chevrolet Camaro GS Race Car
2010 Chevrolet Corvette C6 ZR1
2010 Chevrolet Corvette C6.R


Ford / Shelby\t2010 Ford Focus RS
2010 Ford Shelby Mustang GT500
2005 Ford GT


Jaguar\t2010 Jaguar XKR
2010 #33 Jaguar RSR XKR GT


Lotus\t2010 Lotus Exige
2010 Lotus Evora
2010 Lotus Evora Cup


McLaren\t2012 McLaren MP4-12C
1995 McLaren F1 GTR Race Car


Nissan / Super GT \t2010 Nissan GT-R (R35)
2010 MOTUL AUTECH GT-R (car #23 NISMO, GT500)
2010 Nissan 370Z (Z34)
2010 MOLA 350Z (car #46 MOLA, GT300)


Volkswagen\t2010 VW Golf GTI (A6)
2010 VW Golf R (A6)
2008 VW Scirocco (A6)
2008 VW Scirocco R (A6)


Volvo\t2010 Volvo C30 R
2010 Volvo C30 STCC Race Car"


AND mastered all 15 tracks in both directions.

I'll say it again, BULLSHIT.

...then there's multiplayer, where's a post showing YOU at the top of ALL ladders in multiplayer seeing as you "beat" the game in two hours.



Go play with your toy console REAL GAMERS use a keyboard and mouse.
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post #135 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

The main point though is the cost of the games, which have to be taken into account.

Comparing $10 Need for Speed iPad vs $40 Need for Speed PS3, or $5 Angry Birds vs $50 Call of Duty is really pointless. Most modern "big-ticket" console and PC games aim for between 30-50 hours of content for RPGs/Adventure Titles and 10 hours offline content + unlimited hours of online content for shooters, etc. Most iPhone/Pad titles get repetitive within very few minutes/seconds and are in comparison "impulse buys"/time killers. Just compare Chaos Rings or Zenonia with Dragon Age 4 or Final Fantasy XXVIV, and the $12 vs $50 doesn't seem like such a good deal. Even $1 Talking Larry vs $30 Nintendogs isn't a very good deal unless your only requirement is shutting up the kids for a 6 minute car ride.

Honestly, I find most iPhone and iPad games very similar to the Flash popup advertisement "Games" that are all over the internet, Facebook, etc. Yes there are hundreds of thousands of people out there that can sit for millions of hours and play Facebook gardening games, try and sink baskets on Orbitz.com popup advertisements, play Cut the Rope, etc. These same people probably would have also been more than happy to play the Solitaire game that came bundled with Windows'95 for hours every week.

The fact of the matter is, this market, and its revenue has little to do with people who play Mass Effect, Final Fantasy LVXIII, Super Mario 14, Call of Duty, etc.

It IS, however, a big slab of revenue that all games developers would like to get their hands on, hence the flash-popup-like iPad versions of all sorts of Electronics Arts projects, etc.

Please, just stop circulating the absolute bullcrap that Angry Birds' success is the death knell for the Call of Duty and Dragon Age franchises, and the iPad plugged in with an HDMI dongle/cable somehow is going to make the Wii obsolete.

Remember that millions of people spent millions of hours playing windows Solitaire in 1994, but ID Software and Electronic Arts somehow managed to survive anyways!
post #136 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol77 View Post

...No one in their right mind is going to play Halo Multiplayer on an ipad....

No, they'd play Nova, Nova 2 or alternatives just like you'd have to play on a PS3 (or any other non-Microsoft system).

REAL GAMERS can't play on toy consoles, REAL GAMERS need the precise control of a keyboard and mouse.
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post #137 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemon Bon Bon. View Post

The new iPad 2 is console class. Easily looks Wii or PS2 quality or better to me. Maybe more. Whether the iPad 2 has PS3 quality graphics is no more an argument than comparing a Wii's graphics to the PS3.

It's gpu power easily hangs with a PS2 minimum. And is no doubt looking down it's sights to PS3/360 quality graphics with it's next iteration with a retina display probably.

The iPad 1 already beats the PS2. The iPad 2 is somewhere between the original Xbox and the 360.

Just because so far we've only seen iPad 1 games with quick updates that added better shaders and anti-aliasing doesn't mean we won't see future games with nearly double the amount of polygons, which is currently the greatest difference between an iPad game and a console one (now that iPad 2 has better shaders, that is)

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post #138 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Oh man, you just dug up a bag of hurt for me ..... still pissed to this day that I never got to see what was on disc 4 & 5 .... couldn't find any "cheats" and got to feeling so guilty about "wasting countless hours" just playing a "stupid computer game" that I gave up and "went back to taking care of business".
I'll never forget the feeling I got when I opened a door (by accident) and a photo realistic little girl "answered the door". Honestly, it made my heart jump ... scared the crap out of me. Amongst all of the basic, but still well done, graphics appears, like magic, this image that was almost lifelike. It might have been at that very moment that I got hooked on Mac. I was blown away. I'm still laughing about it as I type this post .... 15 to 20 years later. Thanks Sol.

FYI, Myst is on iOS http://itunes.apple.com/app/myst/id311941991?mt=8
Summer '09 Macbook 6 GB RAM, SSD; iPhone 3GS, aTV v.2

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post #139 of 169
For instance, the pixel fillrate for Wii's Hollywood GPU is 972 MPixels/s, while the original iPad's is 1000. iPad 2's is 2x1000 MPixels. For comparison, Xbox 360's Xenos is 4000 Mpixels/s, or double the iPad 2's.
Hollywood is clocked at 243MHz, while Xenos is at 500MHz and PS3's RSX is 550MHz. iPad 1's PowerVR 535 has one core at 200MHz, and iPad 2's 543 MP2 has two 200MHz cores.

The Wii has 88Mb of total memory, 64Mb of those are GDDR3 graphics memory. It's unknown how many the 543 MP2 has, but it also shares 512Mb with the super-fast system memory, like the Xbox 360 does: it has 512Mb of GDDR3 memory that are also the RAM.

So the iPad 2 is much closer to a 360 than a Wii

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post #140 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

I bought my Apple ][ in July 1978. In December of 1978, with 2 partners I opened the 5th computer store in Siicon Valley -- 7/10 of a mile from Bandley 1 (Apple Headquarters).

Being close to Apple, and the Best Apple retailer in Silicon Valley -- we had a constant stream of Apple employees in our store -- from the 2 Steves, Wiggington, Andy, Chris, Bill, Wil, Wendell, Scottie... yadda, yadda, yadda.

These guys would drop by to tell us some questions (about what was coming) and do impromptu demos for several hours. Woz, in particular, usually had a coterie of camp followers: Cap'n Crunch (when out on parole), Tog, etc. -- lot's of people who were being recruited by Apple.

We sold mainly Apple ][ computers in the early days (a few NorthStars, and Altairs).

I certainly know about the GR and HGR modes on the Apple ][.

I used the low-res example so as not to confuse the issue with too much data.

I bought mine in 1980.

Quote:
Apple "Breakout" was single player -- so in that way, it was a bad implementation of Pong.

Apple breakout was single player because the popular atari breakout was single player. The Apple ][ certainly wasn't constrained to single player. There were many great multi-player games for the Apple ][, including Dr. J vs Larry Bird One on One released for the hardware a couple of years later. A game far more advanced than Pong.

And I'll give you that Apple TV was released pretty much to get something else. That's why they called it a hobby. It was an unusual move for Apple to release something before they really figured out what it was supposed to be.
post #141 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by desides View Post

Um no. Look, AI. Its sort of cute when you, Gruber, and other pro-Apple outlets try to claim that Apple is somehow chewing into the console games market, but the fact is, they arent. The iPod Touch (and iPhone to a lesser extent) are certainly excelling at the entry-level, casual games market. After all, for people who just want to play something simple on the subway ride to work or while waiting in line somewhere, why spend $250 on a 3DS? Apples done a great job of getting into that market.

But there are very few people out there who are going to spend $500+ on an iPad and $40 on an HDMI adapter when they can get an Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3 for half that. Just isnt going to happen. If anything, the iPad will slightly cannibalize the gaming segment of the iPod Touch user base.

I love AI, Daring Fireball, and my Apple products, but Apple-oriented sites really have to rethink how they look at the gaming market. Angry Birds and Real Racing HD are not the ruin of, or even legitimate competition for, Assassins Creed, Final Fantasy, Call of Duty, Battlefield, anything named Mario, Gran Turismo, Forza Motorsport, or any other long-running console franchise I can list here. Just is not. Theres a huge blind spot among Apple punditry when it comes to gaming.

I will only add that new Nintendo 3Ds is pre-ordering, and numbers are 2x the numbers of Nintendo Wii. In UK, it is the best selling gadget on Amazon ever. and it sold 400,000 units in Japan in 2 days.

And we're talking about 3Ds, which is closest match to iOS portable gaming. It really doesn't seem to be hurting at all with abundance of mobile games, be it iOS or Android.

I fear that Facebook Farmville-sort-of-games on Flash enabled tablets (if they ever get fully functional) will pose bigger threat to PC/Console gaming than iOS/Android dedicated games.
post #142 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

I agree with you about the titles but not so much on the cost. The cheapest, latest model PS3 and 360 are $300 on Amazon. Games for the platform are $40-60. Even if you say $40 and you get 5 games, your cost is $500. iPad games are about $10 each so it would be $550. Another game or two and the iPad is better value.

The games are quite poor just now but the selection is much higher and console games aren't all that great either. There are only a few games on each platform that stand out.

While there's no making up for those titles not being available, this has the potential to change casual gaming in a big way. Imagine a family playing a board game like Monopoly or Clue hooked up to the big TV. No more need to have a cupboard full of boxed games. You can even play pictionary without having sheets of paper everywhere and pens that run out of ink. Music games, rockband-type games and so on.

Plus as people have mentioned, you also get a tablet device to use for browsing, books and other apps.

It can't replace the console role until it has the big titles but that can easily come in time. The iPad 2 has only just reached the required graphics performance bar to make this happen.

Couples of problems there:

Price: iPad games are $10 today, but if they ever get close to Tier A of console games, they will get close with price as well. You can't develop that sort of game and sell it for $10 and survive. It is like expecting someone to make MBPro type of laptop for an Acer netbook price.

Storage: even with 64GB of flash disk you cannot have too many big games in your device's memory. Games like Final Fantasy XIII are getting close to dual-layer BR disk. Most Tier A games today will take at least DL DVD, close to 9GB... and your iPad will have other data on it, so it is not like whole 32/64GB will be available for games. The pain of transferring big games from computer to tablet, for those who like to play more games at the same time, would be too much of annoyance.

Controls: type of games you can successfully play on touch-screen is very limited. That being said, I agree some games are actually perfect for touch screen, but not too many.

All in all, I don't know a single PS2/PS3/Xbox gamer who gave up on his/hers console and went iOS gaming; or Android. I realize a lot of people do and will game on iOS/Android, but I think they would not game on dedicated consoles anyway; that means that iOS/Android platforms have a lot of space to grow their gaming market (into non-gamers numbers), but I don't think they are eating consoles' share while doing that.
post #143 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Couples of problems there:

Price: iPad games are $10 today, but if they ever get close to Tier A of console games, they will get close with price as well. You can't develop that sort of game and sell it for $10 and survive. It is like expecting someone to make MBPro type of laptop for an Acer netbook price.

Storage: even with 64GB of flash disk you cannot have too many big games in your device's memory. Games like Final Fantasy XIII are getting close to dual-layer BR disk. Most Tier A games today will take at least DL DVD, close to 9GB... and your iPad will have other data on it, so it is not like whole 32/64GB will be available for games. The pain of transferring big games from computer to tablet, for those who like to play more games at the same time, would be too much of annoyance.

Controls: type of games you can successfully play on touch-screen is very limited. That being said, I agree some games are actually perfect for touch screen, but not too many.

All in all, I don't know a single PS2/PS3/Xbox gamer who gave up on his/hers console and went iOS gaming; or Android. I realize a lot of people do and will game on iOS/Android, but I think they would not game on dedicated consoles anyway; that means that iOS/Android platforms have a lot of space to grow their gaming market (into non-gamers numbers), but I don't think they are eating consoles' share while doing that.

Price: I have no idea what you mean by Tier A [] console games but unless you mean that there is a excessive, up-front developer cost simply for getting access to a consoles SDK (to which there is no evidence Apple will ever initiate) then I dont see how games will be that over priced. Not to mention the increased testing costs for making a game that cannot be updated after its been committed to physical media.

Storage: Games have increased in size because they can. You mention a DL-DVD close to 9GB. So what? Why does the enjoyment of a game not occur until youve used un an entire DL-DVD worth of content? What logic is there in such a statement?

Controls: Some games are designed for a touchscreen and some are designed for a large display, like a TV, etc. Why does this exclude the iOS-based AppleTV with an iOS-based iDevice from ever being an enjoyable platform to play games on?

I really dont get this idea that you have to do everything everything else has already done or its simply not going to be good. We heard the same things about a the iPad a year ago regarding the OS they used and yet now tailoring an OS for a tablets primary I/O is the only viable way to proceed. So, again, why does an iPad and AppleTV have to be everything a 360 and PS3 is for people to enjoy playing games on the system?
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post #144 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Price: I have no idea what you mean by Tier A [] console games but unless you mean that there is a excessive, up-front developer cost simply for getting access to a consoles SDK (to which there is no evidence Apple will ever initiate) then I dont see how games will be that over priced. Not to mention the increased testing costs for making a game that cannot be updated after its been committed to physical media.

Tier A, as in full priced games (because you can get budget games for consoles and PC as well). If iOS developers ever come out with something like Forza or GT5, price of that game will also be comparable to Forza and GT5. I don't think it is only because of SDK. GT5 was in development for more than 5 years and came out with 1000 cars and huge amount of info regarding all those cars, their manufacturers etc.

And speaking of updates, GT5 already had 3 or 4 updates. Part of the game is being installed on console's HDD and can be updated. Part that doesn't is likely just "passive" data - textures etc. Developer is also releasing content updates - seasonal events (available only between specific dates)etc.

Thinking of it, most of PS3 games I have played so far had at least one update. If your PS3 is permanently on-line, updates don't even ask for your permission - as long as they are available, they will automatically DL and install when you run the game.

Quote:
Storage: Games have increased in size because they can. You mention a DL-DVD close to 9GB. So what? Why does the enjoyment of a game not occur until youve used un an entire DL-DVD worth of content? What logic is there in such a statement?

How many modern PC/console games have you played recently..? \

Of course you can enjoy small simple games. I still have some ZX Spectrum and Commodore Amiga emulators on my PC... but honestly, my expectations have gone so far that I run those only for nostalgia and am amused how I could enjoy them much as I remember I was.

While it can be fun pulling the string and launching birds on pigs, it is completely different type of enjoyment as the one provided by game that envelopes you in a story told by couple of hours of HD CGI movie (like FFXIII). Visuals, music, voice acting... can completely suck you in believable phantasy world to a experience no birds will give you, no matter how angry they are. And you can't get that kind of experience with couple of MBs of data. Such spellbound effect requires details, and details require data, production perfection, planning, writing, testing. Hence storage, and price.

Quote:
Controls: Some games are designed for a touchscreen and some are designed for a large display, like a TV, etc. Why does this exclude the iOS-based AppleTV with an iOS-based iDevice from ever being an enjoyable platform to play games on?

I really dont get this idea that you have to do everything everything else has already done or its simply not going to be good. We heard the same things about a the iPad a year ago regarding the OS they used and yet now tailoring an OS for a tablets primary I/O is the only viable way to proceed. So, again, why does an iPad and AppleTV have to be everything a 360 and PS3 is for people to enjoy playing games on the system?

They don't have to. Like I said, there will be huge number of gamers playing - and tremendously enjoying iOS games - but they will not come from console/PC gaming crowd. It is just too different, name "game" being in some cases the only similarity.

Regarding controls - I can see games with pull-and-release mechanics being perfect for touch devices, but there's only number of them one can enjoy. Strategies might benefit as well, but not as much - while touching screen can emulate mouse, you are missing mouse pixel precision, right-click, and keyboard for inputs. You can have on-screen keyboard, but then you are loosing too much of screen estate for controls. And then, back to the previous part - have you seen new Starcraft? Even if it is typical point&click strategy, huge part of game's immersion is due to a story told in high quality CG... hence again, problem with available storage. And no, I don't think the game would be even remotely that good without CG video. Modern games are so much more than just playing through it, they are in some cases really amazing multimedia experiences.

I sat down, couple of days ago, to play through couple of GT5 races while my wife was watching some TV shows... I ended up spending most of the evening reading about Kuebelwagen, Schwimmwagen, and exploring history of Ferdinand Porsche, Volkswagen... and I enjoyed even more when I eventually sat to race in those horrible things.
post #145 of 169
No offense intended, but it sounds to me like you're asking Henry Ford to build you a faster horse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133 View Post

Price: iPad games are $10 today, but if they ever get close to Tier A of console games, they will get close with price as well. You can't develop that sort of game and sell it for $10 and survive. It is like expecting someone to make MBPro type of laptop for an Acer netbook price.

A major change between then and now is the "impulse buy". Back in the good ol' days, if you wanted a game, you'd have to get in your car, drive down to the store (with cash or credit card in hand), select the game you want, pick it up, take it to the counter, and buy it. Many, many opportunities there to change your mind. More recently, you could order online--but you're still ordering a physical product--and then wait, a day or two or more, to receive it. Still you have an opportunity to change your mind: if you decided you don't want it, you can return the package, unopened, and get your refund. $40-80 is not cheap (or maybe I'm just poor... but I digress).

With the App Store, the customer is much more likely to click on "Buy" if the game is $1 or $5 or $10, simply because it looks intriguing, the reviews look good, the graphics look awesome and so on. Besides, if the game sucks, then you're only out a few bucks. Buyer's remorse is minimized, which makes the customer less hesitant in regard to future purchases.

The developer wins as well, because, even if the "unit revenue" is reduced, so is their production/marketing cost. No distribution channels to hassle with, no manufacturing costs, etc. Part of the reason "Tier A" games cost so much is because they got caught in a kind of positive feedback loop: They put a lot of time and energy--and money into development of the game (cost 1), so now they have to market it--TV ads, print ads, posters, cross-merchandising, etc. (cost 2). They have to charge more per unit because of costs 1 & 2, so that they can make a profit. But this means promoting it more, so that they can sell more units (cost 2+).

With online distribution, marketing becomes viral, via word of mouth, user reviews, "popularity", etc.--assuming your game doesn't suck. That greatly reduces your marketing costs (cost 2-). So, minus the cut that Apple takes (in the case of iOS), all the rest of the money is yours.
So, it would be much more difficult to sell, say, 10 million units [of your game] in a physical media format at $40 a pop, than to get 40 million impulse-motivated "Buy" clicks at $10 each. In fact, you could potentially make more money with 40 million $5 App Store sales than 10 million $40 DVD sales, because of how much less you're paying for marketing and distribution.

Quote:
Storage: even with 64GB of flash disk you cannot have too many big games in your device's memory. Games like Final Fantasy XIII are getting close to dual-layer BR disk. Most Tier A games today will take at least DL DVD, close to 9GB... and your iPad will have other data on it, so it is not like whole 32/64GB will be available for games. The pain of transferring big games from computer to tablet, for those who like to play more games at the same time, would be too much of annoyance.

These are technological technicalities. I'm sure there are some pretty bright minds already working on solutions (more flash storage, higher bandwidth, etc.).

Quote:
Controls: type of games you can successfully play on touch-screen is very limited. That being said, I agree some games are actually perfect for touch screen, but not too many.

This is where I got the feeling that you're asking for Henry Ford to build you a faster horse.
We don't yet fully understand where this new tech could take us. But smart, innovative developers will come up with ideas that were never before imagined. Ideas that will push the limits of this new tech or use it in unforeseen ways and cause others to say, "That's madness!!! You can't do that!! It'll never work!" Until it does work, and sells.

All in all, I don't know a single PS2/PS3/Xbox gamer who gave up on his/hers console and went iOS gaming; or Android. I realize a lot of people do and will game on iOS/Android, but I think they would not game on dedicated consoles anyway; that means that iOS/Android platforms have a lot of space to grow their gaming market (into non-gamers numbers), but I don't think they are eating consoles' share while doing that.[/QUOTE]
I didn't read anything in the article that suggested that iOS was going to replace the game console. Just that iOS devices are becoming sophisticated and robust enough to become a serious gaming platform, inching its way to console-quality gaming.
More than that however, the interoperability of the devices (ATV, iPad/iPhone/iPod touch) allows for an entirely new gaming experience.
I was gonna say "not possible in the console environment", but that assumes that the console makers are standing still, which, presumably they are not. If they're smart, they'll see what Apple and iOS game developers are doing, and develop their own "new" gaming ideas, in order to stay relevant and competitive.
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post #146 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

You seem to be a perfect example of an education system promoting a "student" before they're ready. You read .... but you don't "see". That's so pathetic it has to be "on purpose" on your part .... so I'm calling Troll .... because to think otherwise would just be too sad. \

Actually if you had bothered to read, you would have seen that I replied to a poster, not the article, but of course you pulled the "troll" bomb, the standard AI reponse to anyone that disagrees with you.
post #147 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

Go play with your toy console REAL GAMERS use a keyboard and mouse.

Nice one...
post #148 of 169
BTW the console gamers here do realise that their "Tier A super duper exclusive" whatevers are increasingly dumbed-down for the common "hardcore" gamer, right?

Resident Evil 5, Call of Duty 4, 5, 6, 7, even Dead Space 2 (which is pretty damn bloody scary and has a good atmosphere and concept), has all become quite formulaic nowadays, particularly the boss appearances and battles. COD:MW2 was okay but I had no idea what was going on most of the time. It was shoot, shoot, crouch, shoot, shoot shoot, run, jump, shoot... The end. No idea what the storyline was even about. With millions of console copies sold, obviously most people didn't care.

You do realise that Angry Birds works my brain harder, right? I play the "Tier A" titles for the cinematic experience, not the stellar gameplay. For that I have StarCraft2, TeamFortress2, etc.

If playing the "Tier A" console titles makes you feel superior being a "real" gamer, enjoy...!
post #149 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by kohelet View Post

FYI, Myst is on iOS http://itunes.apple.com/app/myst/id311941991?mt=8

Did anyone actually manage to figure out Riven? I mean, Myst was fantastic and I managed to finish it, with maybe just a bit of cheating the big maze part ... Riven was absolutely beautiful but I had no idea what the heck was going on, I probably only covered one or two out of what, five dics? Years later, tried again with Uru and again, totally lost.
post #150 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by quaternio View Post

Unfortunately, WiFi cannot accommodate anywhere near enough bandwidth to transmit a 1080p signal to a separate device. AirPlay works by buffering the file to another device, not by sending the decoded a/v signal to the device. I don't think any wireless protocol is available to the consumer that can accommodate what an HDMI cable can do, but in any case, it would be impossible over AirPlay.

Brite-view offers products that claim to do just that - 1080p wireless HDMI w/ very low latency good enough for gaming. Check them out:

http://www.brite-view.com/hdelight.php

This tech combined with the iPad2 would be killer....iPad3 perhaps?
post #151 of 169
Oh no you didn't! Cut The Rope (particularly the iPad version) is a benchmark in modern game design. Have you even finished all the levels? It is truly remarkable, hats off to the team that came up with that. As for the others you mentioned, carry on, we're listening. Just leave Cut The Rope out of it!

Seriously, you use more brain power completing just ONE of the harder levels of Cut The Rope than playing the ENTIRETY of COD:MW2. Mass Effect 2 though, agreed, absolutely superb. Once I finished the storyline I explored every single remaining planet, not wanting it to end.

What we should encourage is excellence in different areas such as Cut The Rope AND Mass Effect 2.

BTW Angry Birds ... Not as inane as you think. Quite a number of people have probably spent equal time on Angry Birds (especially with all the updates and the Eagle as well as Angry Birds Seasons),
when compared to MOST STANDARD LENGTH CONSOLE SHOOTERS.

The "video game" industry is actually in its best shape ever and has the best opportunities ever presented.

Now it's just a matter of when, not if, Apple takes on the consoles at the HDTV level completing their ecosystem of gaming from pocket device to tablet to HDTV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

Comparing $10 Need for Speed iPad vs $40 Need for Speed PS3, or $5 Angry Birds vs $50 Call of Duty is really pointless. Most modern "big-ticket" console and PC games aim for between 30-50 hours of content for RPGs/Adventure Titles and 10 hours offline content + unlimited hours of online content for shooters, etc. Most iPhone/Pad titles get repetitive within very few minutes/seconds and are in comparison "impulse buys"/time killers. Just compare Chaos Rings or Zenonia with Dragon Age 4 or Final Fantasy XXVIV, and the $12 vs $50 doesn't seem like such a good deal. Even $1 Talking Larry vs $30 Nintendogs isn't a very good deal unless your only requirement is shutting up the kids for a 6 minute car ride.

Honestly, I find most iPhone and iPad games very similar to the Flash popup advertisement "Games" that are all over the internet, Facebook, etc. Yes there are hundreds of thousands of people out there that can sit for millions of hours and play Facebook gardening games, try and sink baskets on Orbitz.com popup advertisements, play Cut the Rope, etc. These same people probably would have also been more than happy to play the Solitaire game that came bundled with Windows'95 for hours every week.

The fact of the matter is, this market, and its revenue has little to do with people who play Mass Effect, Final Fantasy LVXIII, Super Mario 14, Call of Duty, etc.

It IS, however, a big slab of revenue that all games developers would like to get their hands on, hence the flash-popup-like iPad versions of all sorts of Electronics Arts projects, etc.

Please, just stop circulating the absolute bullcrap that Angry Birds' success is the death knell for the Call of Duty and Dragon Age franchises, and the iPad plugged in with an HDMI dongle/cable somehow is going to make the Wii obsolete.

Remember that millions of people spent millions of hours playing windows Solitaire in 1994, but ID Software and Electronic Arts somehow managed to survive anyways!
post #152 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

You do realise that Angry Birds works my brain harder, right? I play the "Tier A" titles for the cinematic experience, not the stellar gameplay. For that I have StarCraft2, TeamFortress2, etc.

If playing the "Tier A" console titles makes you feel superior being a "real" gamer, enjoy...!

I am by no means a "hard core gamer", but I love StarCraft 2. Sadly, my little 13" MacBook doesn't have the juice to play the way the makers intended. I have to have all my game settings set to "medium" or less in order for it to play smoothly. I wonder if Blizzard has assigned a team to optimize their games for iOS. I hope so!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

What will happen when someone releases a killer game that can only be run on a Tablet -- with it's portability, touchscreen, cameras, accelerometers, gyroscope, etc.?

...

What/When will be the first game experience for which people will buy a Tablet?

It would be super cool if Blizzard created an iOS division: create entirely new games that take full advantage of iOS (hardware and software) tech.
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post #153 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by desides View Post

iPad 2 sneaks closer to console gaming with 1080p Real Racing 2 HDTV output makes about as much sense as iPad 2 sneaks closer to television set top box with 1080p HDTV output.

heh, that's exactly how I use it though. i don't subscribe to a TV Subscription service. I use the iPad to watch Hulu, netflix, ABC, TED....
post #154 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by kohelet View Post

FYI, Myst is on iOS http://itunes.apple.com/app/myst/id311941991?mt=8

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.
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post #155 of 169
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Originally Posted by jfanning View Post

Actually if you had bothered to read, you would have seen that I replied to a poster, not the article, but of course you pulled the "troll" bomb, the standard AI reponse to anyone that disagrees with you.

Yes, and I was the poster that you replied to .... but you would know that ...... if you had bothered to read ..... of course, if you're still 'reading without seeing' it doesn't matter who you're repling to ... it will still be nonsense.
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post #156 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Did anyone actually manage to figure out Riven? I mean, Myst was fantastic and I managed to finish it, with maybe just a bit of cheating the big maze part ... Riven was absolutely beautiful but I had no idea what the heck was going on, I probably only covered one or two out of what, five dics? Years later, tried again with Uru and again, totally lost.

Not me either. In an earlier post I mentioned Myst as the game I played years ago but when I checked out the link that someone gave me, I realized my mistake .... it was Riven that I had (Myst was mentioned on the dvd cover, I believe) .... Anyway, that 'girl behind the door' still startled me half to death .... and I'm still pissed I never found out what disc 3, 4 and 5 contained. Great memories.
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post #157 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

With online distribution, marketing becomes viral, via word of mouth, user reviews, "popularity", etc.--assuming your game doesn't suck. That greatly reduces your marketing costs (cost 2-). So, minus the cut that Apple takes (in the case of iOS), all the rest of the money is yours.

How is marketing any different between a game distributed online only versus one distributed on physical media? Both formats can and DO use viral internet marketing, and both formats can benefit from print and TV ads. And people learn about both formats via word of mouth, game review sites, random Facebook messages and tweets. I'd almost wager you've got wider exposure with a physical product since you're going to get free advertisement for a new release via the flyers for various stores, emails from game stores announcing the week's new releases, Amazon's upcoming games list, etc.
post #158 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Superbass View Post

PC games aim for between 30-50 hours of content for RPGs/Adventure Titles and 10 hours offline content + unlimited hours of online content for shooters, etc. Most iPhone/Pad titles get repetitive within very few minutes/seconds and are in comparison "impulse buys"/time killers.

In general yes but I think games like Left 4 Dead get quite repetitive after a short time whereas NFS games on iOS offer decent gameplay. Broken Sword for iOS has a few hours of gameplay. GTA Chinatown Wars, Tomb Raider Guardian of Light etc. For the most part I agree entirely that games on consoles have a greater depth to them but the selection of really good titles is quite small and pretty expensive.

What I can see happening is not a move away from the franchises based on quality but the value of the casual gamer increasing to the games industry and persuading developers to look more at casual gaming. I do think there will always be developers who aim to push the boundaries of technology but it's getting less and less profitable to do it.

Despite the fact there are clear benefits in high-end gaming from the consumer experience, if most of the studios go bust pursuing it, where do we end up? We'll end up with a handful of the biggest franchises like CoD, GTA etc and no room for innovative companies. Companies now are having to sell 3-5 million copies to break even after development and marketing.

There is a change in how and where people are playing games and it's not that big franchises will disappear, they'll just move and successful companies will be the ones who prepare for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkyMac

For instance, the pixel fillrate for Wii's Hollywood GPU is 972 MPixels/s, while the original iPad's is 1000. iPad 2's is 2x1000 MPixels.

Textured fillrate benchmarks are noted here:

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/ipad...bath-50003236/

iPad 1 is listed as 228 MTexels/s.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeSkyMac

So the iPad 2 is much closer to a 360 than a Wii

It certainly has more RAM at 512MB vs 88MB, which makes a big difference in the texture quality but in terms of raw performance (FPS, geometry density), it's likely to be closer to the Wii. Here are videos of the iPad 2, Wii and 360 running Dead Space:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ep5k5c31FDo (iPad 2 skip to 6:38)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJLvFtooT9E (Wii)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wxfjozXUJQ (360)

The Wii and iPad have lower tessellated geometry and lower quality shaders.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikon133

All in all, I don't know a single PS2/PS3/Xbox gamer who gave up on his/hers console and went iOS gaming; or Android.

Sure but I'd reword it to say not yet. Transitions rarely happen overnight and I think these are like baby steps that need to be noticed.

Look at the two eco-systems going on right now, you have consoles that sell 50 million units in their 5 year lifespan and you sometimes lose all backwards compatibility with a new model like the PS3. iPhones are at 50 million units per year now. When the quality bar reaches a certain point, why wouldn't someone put Call of Duty on the iPhone?

Console marketing is much harder than the App Store - all a publisher needs to do is send it to Apple for approval and then it's live to everyone, no shipping, no printing and no problems with resale losing you money.
post #159 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mobius View Post

1st place. What did I win?

This is pretty cool stuff.

I can't help thinking how ridiculous it looks having that unwieldy HDMI breakout adapter hanging off the side of the iPad. A wifi connection between the iPad and TV would be so much more elegant.

They ought to sell an optional case that takes the cable around & out the back.
post #160 of 169
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin View Post

Sure but I'd reword it to say not yet. Transitions rarely happen overnight and I think these are like baby steps that need to be noticed.

Look at the two eco-systems going on right now, you have consoles that sell 50 million units in their 5 year lifespan and you sometimes lose all backwards compatibility with a new model like the PS3. iPhones are at 50 million units per year now. When the quality bar reaches a certain point, why wouldn't someone put Call of Duty on the iPhone?

Console marketing is much harder than the App Store - all a publisher needs to do is send it to Apple for approval and then it's live to everyone, no shipping, no printing and no problems with resale losing you money.

I don't expect that too many people will pay Console/PC price for an iPhone or iPad game, and I don't expect developer will port such game to iOS without charging comparable price; after all, people are not buying iOS devices for gaming, so equation is a bit more complex than with consoles (where every owner is candidate for a good game, because that is why console is purchased).

Compatibility wise, please don't forget that PS2, even if being sold still, is hardware more than 10 years old. I'm wondering if iDevices in 10 years will be compatible with present ones. Heck, I'm wondering if iOS devices in 5 years will be compatible with present ones. I think that this is actually consoles' advantage - Sony said somewhere that they are planning to support their consoles for at least 10 years, so if you buy newly released console, you can expect to have games for it next 10 years. What can iDevice owners expect? Do all current iOS games run on original iPhone and iPhone 3G?
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