Dell, HP execs lash out at Apple's iOS successes - Page 6

It's not just the masses. I'm a programmer and I really have no interest at all in spending any time getting my technology to work for me. I want things that just work. Especially when I'm away from my computer.

It's just a good thing the blogosphere didn't exist when (for example) the Model A came out. "What kind of a weenie doesn't want to advance and retard his own timing? FAILZORZ!!!"

There is a group of people who thinks they know a lot about technology are really against Apple for some reason.

Fact is most developers I know really admire Apple and their products. And really not want to wrestle with the phone and computers all day long.

I'll bet the next thing Dell & HP will want to see is Steve Jobs birth certificate

I think there are a group of people who DO know a lot about technology, but see Apple as just dumbed down shit for idiots. (Not my words)

Maybe they just feel left out. Maybe if Apple made what these geeks are looking for, the lambasting would cease.

Okay. I'm gonna go ahead and play the "dumb" card here, but will someone more knowledgeable than me about this stuff please explain what it is about Android that makes it "open" and what it is about iOS that makes it "closed"?

When I hear "open", I think "open source" like Linux or meaning, anyone can download the source, tweak it, hack it, modify it, share it, etc. I think of an "open source community" where everyone plays nice together, and nobody owns anything. I think of a kind of software/cyber-utopia, with butterflies and rainbows and unicorns, where everyone is happy and is never sad.

Another way I interpret "open" is, anarchist, libertarian, "freedom". In other words, no rules, no boundaries, no chaperons. Of course, the reality of "freedom" is accepting the restrictions imposed on you. In most modern societies, you're not free to steal, murder, rape, hunt endangered animals, etc. In a truly free society, you could do any of those things (as well as good things, of course) without suffering any legal consequences from the ruling body, because essentially, there wouldn't be a ruling body. What's a ruling body for if there are no rules?
I think this is what the Android is "open" crowd mean when they talk about "openness".

And then there's evil, fascist Apple with their draconian "closed" iOS, and their "rules" and their app "rejections", where developers aren't "free" to do whatever the hell they want in terms of content, UI, functionality, etc. I think this is what Apple critics mean when they say that Apple is "closed", or perhaps, more precisely, "not open".

My suspicion is that Google, and Android advocates are playing fast & loose with the term "open", adapting the definition to suit the particular point their trying to make. Kind of like I think Apple is playing fast & loose with the term "full HD" and including 720p in that. Again, I'm open to being corrected if someone can point out where/how I am wrong--that's one way I get to learn stuff!

....not so dumb.....

I actually agree with this guy.... I live on an island, Australia... And the iPad is great

"Competitors" of the iPod, iPhone & iPad JUST-DON'T-GET IT!

I know why they're wrong, and I know precisely why the Apple products they're referring to HAVE succeeded and will CONTINUE to succeed. (And what's this about predicting that the iPad will fail? You need to go back to grade school and learn how to tell time. The iPad has succeeded, the iPad 2 has succeeded. You can't "put the cart before the horse.")

My best guess is that it's more a product of "wishful thinking," or "whistling past the graveyard." They can't see how much they're embarrassing themselves.

I would love to elaborate on exactly why, but it's highly probable that Apple's direct "competitors" (the many dwarfs to Apple's Snow White) troll these very forums in an attempt to glean any information that will create a competitive advantage. (Lotsa luck. "There are none so blind as those who will not see.")

All I'm willing to do is hint. When even the Apple-devoted sites themselves were frustrated when Apple was mum about highly technical aspects of the iPad 2 at its introduction and would only attempt to shift the focus away from the technicals and onto the product experience, its capabilities and uniqueness, I knew there was a VERY SPECIFIC reason for why ALL Apple representatives were doing this, and was in TOTAL agreement with that approach (which seemed to be a directive given to EVERY Apple spokesperson, not just two-dozen mere coincidences).

I want nothing more than for Apple's "competitors" (put in quotes for a reason) to keep on keeping on! Press on with your current approach and don't change a thing!

(And why is it that only Apple customers seem to get the symbolism of the "Hi. I'm a Mac," "and I'm a PC" commercials? Microsoft responded with TV ads where dozens of people -- including, fortuitously, that charlatan, Deepak Chopra, in my own personal opinion -- all said, "I'm a PC." To be a bit lowbrow and quote Charlie Sheen, "Duh!"; the actors in the Apple ads were lone personifications of a Windows PC and a Mac. I've owned countless Macs for decades, and I'm here to tell you, I AM NOT A MAC! I am a human being. My Mac is separate and distinct from me and not part of me. Further, do ANY companies besides Apple have ANY shred of imagination? It isn't just Microsoft that "photocopies" Apple's products, store designs and advertisements, everyone it seems can't come up with a single other company to copy but Apple. It's now -- including, but not limited to -- Google, Verizon and even IBM! All IBM TV ads now end with the subject saying, "I'm an IBM-er." You'll never convince me that that line would be in IBM TV ads had it not been for Apple's ads.)

Apple: keep on doing what you're doing, and "competitors," PLEASE! I BEG YOU! Keep on doing what you're doing, too! (Now, please excuse me while I go and short your stock.)

Joined in 2003 and this is your first post? There should be some kind of award for that.

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Of course they did. If Apple weren't so successful, they wouldn't ever even mention them.

No, he can't get off the hook that easily. Any top executive in a computer company so clueless he thinks an iPad connects to a mouse should be looking for a new job. It isn't a random technical detail, it is fundamental to why an iPad defines a new category. Just imagine what other inane ideas might lurk in his empty head.

Android is open and Apple is closed in simplest terms can be summarized as: anyone can download and compile the source code to Android OS, you cannot do that for any Apple OS.

It quickly becomes more complicated if you examine what has happened in actual shipping products. Motorola and possibly others have locked down what OS can be written to their devices. You could edit and compile an Android OS variant and not be able to install it on the device you have purchased.

Another, probably more important, difference is that only Google engineers have write access to the project. So individuals not employed by Google can watch but not contribute. It is even slightly more insidious with the source code for the newest "pad friendly" OS" being held back for an unspecified period before it becomes publicly available.

In the case of both Apple and Google the API's for third party developers are publicly available, which is in my opinion the most important aspect of being "open".

Thats not entirely true. Apples Darwin OS is open to all and Android 3.0 is locked down tighter than ministers daughter.

Did you not notice his name?

We didn't ask for YO.

Dell is a company that's completely lost its way. They once did something reasonably well: produce reasonably priced PCs of reasonable quality and sell them directly to consumers.

Now they are trying to do lots of things and they do none of them well. Are they a hardware company or a computer services company? Their hardware products are pretty awful, cheap and unreliable. Their servers are becoming known for their high failure rate. Their first attempt at a phone/tablet crossover device has been a total disaster.

So why would anyone believe what the leadership at Dell has to say about the future of tablet computing? They haven't made a good call in a decade!

Agreed. Cash would be nice.

No, it's my 9 millionth post. It was one of those "password retrieval" issues that probably reset the counter. I had 2 boot from another drive that didn't have 1Password 3 set up.

1Password is priceless, but has one side-effect (for me): it makes my slack off on remembering my passwords.

Sorry to hear about your G4, make she rest in peace.
My G$ is about 10 years old, only had two problems with it, the monitor went (it was a non-Mac one by the way) and one self-inflicted. Pretty good run.
It runs Tiger, and although a little slow does get the job done, although Safari is VERY BAD on it.

Totally agree. I would only add that a more "expensive" Mac over a less-expensive PC, also runs [uggh]....Windows 7 and previous via Boot Camp. Two for the price of one. Or, via Parallels or Fusion, all the way back to Windows 3, DOS, Red Hat, Fedora, Ubuntu, CentOS, Debian 5.0, Suse, Suse Linux Enterprise Desktop 11, OpenSUSE Linux 11.x, Mandriva, Solaris, Open Solaris, FreeBSD, OS/2 Warp, eComStation, (probable) Chrome & more...

I'd love to see if there are any statistics on how many people Boot Camped Windows onto their Macs only to wind up using Mac OS X (for all the reasons I don't need to go into) 99% of the time.


Dell mounted its deathbed when the "flawless" Michael Dell succumbed to pressure from all quarters, and played in the low-end.

When Dell was #1, their computers were never the cheapest; people felt that spending an extra $400 to get a Dell with its (then) sterling reputation for quality assurance & service, was an investment, not an expense. But when Dells dropped below $1,000 (and since, MUCH lower), when the plastic began to audibly creak when you lifted them, when their products were on floor displays of brown cardboard Dell boxes in Wal*Marts right next to floor displays of Ramen noodles for 99 cents a case, their "loftier" brand image tanked, and buying a Dell no longer afforded you the palpable advantages back when you were willing to pay a little more for a Dell, and when their profit margins (that used to be reinvested in Quality Assurance, pricier but sturdier materials and acclaimed customer support) plummeted, Dell went into an uncontrollable death spiral (that has yet to conclude).

Let's see...how much has Apple's absolute refusal to play in the low-end by slashing profit margins and switching to cheaper components, and cutting down on Industrial Design expenses hurt them over the last twelve years or so? Seems to me, the consensus among top financial analysts is that Apple is on a path that will overtake Exxon/Mobile in market cap to become the biggest company in the U.S.

Still completely confident in your decision, Michael?


I ≈ agree, however, with the exception of Apple's LaserWriters, Apple printers were Canon printers in Mac clothing. With two parties that needed to make profits, I doubt Apple made much off their disguised Canon printers.

Maybe like with graphics cards, it's best to leave printers to the specialists than try to get up to speed and compete with the likes of Epson, who has been refining and refining and perfecting their many highly innovative printing technologies (e.g. their Micro Piezo "vibration" method of deploying ink droplets that are as small as 1.5 picoliters) over decades.

But Epson has ink on their hands as well as HP. Their cartridges are good for about a week. Why don't they just give the printers away?

Oh, and an open question I have: is it worth it to use Parallels or Fusion to run Windows and Mac OS X concurrently with the advantages of integration, coherence, drag-and-drop, the Dock Exposé, not having to reboot to use Windows, etc., etc., etc., over all the Windows security vulnerabilities you would be exposed to in that mixed environment?

Would it be more prudent to format a separate drive, install Windows via Boot Camp, put up with rebooting, but completely segregate Windows on that drive to "contain" any "infectious" issues from "infecting" your Mac OS X boot volume that runs Windows side-by-side with Mac OS X via Parallels or Fusion? (Classic case of "Lesser of two evils?)

\

dude how did he get that title???

he's a schmuck.

dumb down shit for idiots like iPhone and iPad which eventually get copied by Google which they love

Say hello to Andy Lark.
Sometimes you want to talk trash. Sometimes you need to bullshit. With the new touch-sensitive, Flash-capable Inspiron duo convertible double-talk executive, you can do both in style. You can tell its Dell.

I should work in marketing

Not only that, when you consider the total cost of ownership - acquisition, maintenance, upgrades, and salvage - over their useful life, Macs are by far the least expensive computers. They always have been.


It's only a matter of time before iPad imitators learn not to try to "get up to speed and compete" with the likes of Apple too. They've invested over a decade of research and who knows how many billions of dollars developing these low power mobile devices that are just now entering the market. Even attempting to "get up to speed" with a company ten years ahead of you is probably unwise from an investment perspective.

Sure, there will be cheaper alternatives, just as there have always been cheaper alternatives to the Mac. Sure, consumers will gravitate to a $199 tablet (should there ever be a viable one). Of course the HPs and Dells who sell them will be doing their best to hide how much money they're actually losing on every one. When consumers realize it's junk, that its support is limited, that its battery craps out in six months because it does run Flash... you guessed it, they'll run out and buy another $199 piece of junk, just as they have with Dell, Gateway, and HP for decades.

Meanwhile, those who want something that's actually usable and reliable will gladly spend twice as much for an iPad that will last five times as long. Who has the better business model, over the long term?

As for the Dells and HPs of the world, they're landfill fodder. Always have been (well, only since about 1992 or so).


Effectively, they do. In fact many consumers toss perfectly good inkjet printers in the trash when their ink runs dry. It's often cheaper to buy a brand new printer than replacement cartridges. Landfill fodder, again.

While that might be true, it's still nowhere as sad as badmouthing the competition without having an actual product yourself, or making up stuff. I agree that Apple sometimes also makes a little bit too much of a show downplaying the competition, but never as bad as this Dell and HP guys.

I also think you're missing the point about Jobs making fun of the Dell Mini 9 or that he was being hypocritical or stupid about 7" tablets being inconvenient or hard to control. The iPod Touch and the iPhone have never been positioned as more than just a PMP and smartphone, with accompanying user interfaces that work well on a 4" screen. The 'problem' with 'sanding down your fingertips' is 'solved' by simple tuning down the interface and showing less information at the same time. I also don't think the iPad has ever been positioned as a truly 'portable device' in the same sense a smartphone is a portable device, in other words: not something you will carry along with you all the time.

Combining these two observations, I don't find it contradictory to make fun at the Dell Mini 9 and 7" tablets wjhile at the same time you sell a 10" tablet yourself, and I also don't find it contradictory to say 7" tablets are too small to use conveniently while you are selling 4" smartphones and PMPs. I'm not passing any judgement whether Apple is right here, but it's very clear they think 4" is the sweet spot for phones with phone UI's, and 10" is the sweet spot for tablets with rich user interfaces. Anything in between is diluting the qualities of the iPhones and iPads. Make the iPad smaller and you will have a device that is too small for a rich user interface, and too big for a true 'carry everywhere' device.

Maybe, they meant that their competing products would fail.

To know a lot about technology and knowing how to sell a functional product to the consumer market are two different skills.


I believe Apple cares more about the average person who doesn't care how technology works than it does the cynical geek who complains about the amount of RAM.

Then Apple is going to slowly lose the geeks, and the geeks that work in IT/retail will be recommending Android/Windows / setting up polices at work that only Windows/Android is supported.

I do agree, overtime, Android will out beat iOS in both phone and tablet, simply because they will be able to market and sell Android based devices cheaper than Apple.

Both Dell and HP are living in Fools paradise.. Already there are news of malware attacks on Android based Tablets.. No one can beat iOS for the simple reason that Apple controls both hardware and software and both are seamlessly integrated..
Dell and HP, please shut up and look to innovate instead of crying foul

I think you've got it wrong, Apple is winning because people are fed up of having to rely on geeks in IT/retail who salivate over fps and overclocking rather than getting computers to do real work for the real world.

People are finding Apple products are perfectly useful without the geek and are demanding their use in wider areas.

Hi, you should use Parallels or VMWare Fusion. It will not "corrupt" or "infect" your Mac OS X partition even if it is compromised. That's Windows thinking, partitioning so that corrupted parts can be reinstalled while keeping other parts. With Parallels or VMWare Fusion the PC virus doesn't "jump across" to the Mac.

Also, the best part of virtualisation is this: your entire Windows install is one file. Backup this file. If something happens that messes up Windows then just copy back that one file ("image") and you are back to exactly the state your Windows was in at the point of backup.