Dell, HP execs lash out at Apple's iOS successes - Page 3

I like that the little tag line on the web page for that monstrosity is "You Can Tell It's Dell."

I can indeed.

First of all, what's open about Windows? Second. I think most manufactures of Android devices feel like Motorola and think a race to the bottom is not the way to go. Also, many developers feel similar to the Rovio developers that developing for platforms where hardware is so diverse is a PITA and more expensive by nature. Lastly, pure economic theory suggests that the market innovator can and will create a comfortable lead and sustain marketability. They simply have a severe case of envy. Lol

Are you sure you didn't grab this from the Onion? I mean.. this is one of those pieces that's so over the top, it's not even worth commenting on. $1600 with accessories? A mouse? iPad will fail? I'm walking away before my head explodes.

He / they in all fairness, have to say something about where they HOPE to go, and how the HOPE to get there, and how the HOPE folks will buy into this crap. It's there future they are HOPING on.

If they don't unseat Apple, they may all have to go knocking on Steve's door looking for a job, and well, we all know what the likelihood of that is.

As soon as they realize that they aren't in Kansas anymore, and that Apple isn't the enemy, and that all they HAVE to do, it's up-the-anti by coming up with something NEW and EXCITING, that beats the Apple product at it's own game, they to will see riches beyond their wildest dreams.

All I can say is "I wish my company sucked as bad as Apple".

Now if anyone is looking to get promotional products for less come and see me.

Karl
designsbyskip.com

If this is what a senior executive "knows" about Apple then he needs to be fired. The iPad is cheap. Its entry level tablet is the cheapest on the market ( with a capacitive screen) and Apple probably will have the margins to go cheaper later this year. Apple have done all this an protected margins.

Dell - a small company relative to Apple - will not be able to compete on price with their "multi-OS" tablet - is WP7 even ready for a tablet, does anybody think that UI can even scale? - and so will flounder like everybody else. With executives who think that an iPad costs $1500 is representative of their competition, then they are screwed.

Quick they need some cheese to go with all of that whine, and some one to explain to them that in order to attain their goals the need to sell all of the junk that they manufacture before it can be counted as market share.

Multi-OS? Mice for all-touch, ultra-mobile devices? Dell is clearly looking at this completely wrong, and have gotten so far behind already. If it was up to Dell, we would be using computers in the exact same manner as we are using them today. I guess they have realized by now innovation will not be coming from them -- maybe that's what's making them say stupid things like this...

Yeah...you were asking where the extra cost is coming from...as you said, that's some real good shit they're smoking. I wonder how they'll package that, though? Is it an accessory? Does it fit in the box where the earbuds are usually folded up?

Say what!?

What keyboard and case (and mouse?) add up to $670-770? The iPad is not the most expensive tablet out there; it is the least expensive. And I have no idea what HP knows about "open" software - both Windows and its own WebOS are proprietary.

It all sounds like desperation to me!

Did Lark just out-buffoon Balmer? Mice? I guess Dell won't be featuring heavily in the post-PC era.

McD

These guys are really embarrassing. It's like watching a really bad performance at a play and feeling so, so bad for the guy on stage you want to walk out so you don't have to think about it anymore.

iPad COSTS! The mice! with the things! And the double XZ triple bypass ergonomic keyboard with the hotkeys and the stand made out of delicate China and the monies! And the THINGS! My GOD....the MONIES! And the mouses! DidIMentionTheMOUSES?!................
...buy our stuff please.

Okay, alright. How much for a kilo?

I disagree. The statements in this article are so mind-boggling stupid I can't imagine anyone predicting that this is what HP execs think about the iPad and tablets in general.

But I have to thank them, especially this Dell guy, for his 'insights', he made my day, which was frankly kind of boring and full of annoyances up to now

The guy's last name is "Lark." Surely that is meme-building material? Surely we can do something with this?

Merriam Webster Dictionary
Lark:
any of a family (Alaudidae) of chiefly Old World ground-dwelling songbirds that are usually brownish in color;

A bird that can't fly and looks like shit? Maybe infuse it with some good ole drug references?

"You've got to be larking me."
"Stop larking around."
"That dell plan is a big pile of lark."
"Larking in the boys room."

I really can't wait 'til Saturday to see what the Macalope over at Macworld has to say about this!

I'm surprised that there are so many comments here... because that clueless diatribe left my jaw hanging, speechless, and dare I say paralyzed in embarrassment for both of them.

I'm seriously pained by the "image" of them bending over and doing the full "corporate-reach-around" for their bosses... because they can't really believe what they just said... can they?

I'm flummoxed!

Dell should shut the company down and give the money back to the shareholders.

Funny that the Dell and HP bozos only talk about the high price of accessories. And never did they say "ours will be cheaper." Because that would be lying. Apple's massive iPad sales give them huge purchasing power. The bigger their orders from component suppliers, the better their per-unit price, economy of scale, yadda yadda.

And that's only including iPad components. Apple uses many of the same components in iPad, iPod touch, iPhone, and even Apple TV. Which means even bigger purchase volume and better economy of scale. The iPad cloners of the world need to outbid each other for what's left, which raises their costs, which cuts into their margins. Unless they raise prices. Hence the $800 7" Xoom. Oops.

But I can understand Dell's and HP's frustration. They don't have their own pad OS. They are at the mercy of Microsoft and Google. The way Palm was at the mercy of Microsoft and Access (who they sold Palm OS to, in case you don't remember.) Microsoft has proven over the last decade that they can't and don't want to develop a real pad OS. Google wants to but they're years behind Apple in apps, stability, and even basic features. So, Dell and HP are forced to release products with inferior user experiences, infrastructures, ecosystems, and build quality. Or they're forced to wait until their software partners get their act together. A total lose-lose situation.

Come to think of it, Microsoft has exactly the same frustrations. But from the other side. They have no hardware of their own. They are at the mercy of the LGs, Samsungs, HTCs, and Nokias of the world. All of whom are frantically cutting corners on their iPhone clones and iPad clones. Microsoft is thinking "Why can't these idiots build a phone as good as iPhone?"

The answer is "Because if you're serious about hardware, you'll write the OS for it. And if you're serious about an OS, you'll build the hardware for it." And that's why the "open" concept, of software on multiple hardware designs, is fatally flawed.

Dell is a train wreck, but the argument is not entirely without merit. After all, Apple has never had the best relationships with business. Also, HP is not quite the train wreck that Dell is, so it's conceivable that maybe HP could be competitive. But it's not likely.

Here's the problem for the non-Apple tablets -- the platform just isn't there yet. I'm not sure that people fully appreciate just how badly MS has screwed up here. The entire "open" PC platform depends critically on MS for not just an OS but for an overall vision of where the platform is going. MS fell asleep at the wheel and now that whole world of PC OEMs has no idea what to do. Google has tried to step into the void but Google is an ad company, not a computing platform company. Google wants to just write some code, give it a way, and hope everything works out (oh, and please let us sell ads). But the PC OEMs need a lot more than that because either (1) their brains have atrophied over the years of dependence on MS (HP) or (2) they never had brains to begin with (Dell).

It's a little different in the phone space because people historically have had lower expectations for phones. If you're stepping up from a plain vanilla flip phone or feature phone, then Android seems like an improvement to you. But as people start to look at their phone as a computer, they'll start to raise their expectations beyond what the Android phones can match (little things like being able to buy apps that actually work and being able to upgrade the OS).

So right now, Apple has a huge advantage, even in the enterprise. But Apple does need to work very hard to improve their enterprise sales staff and support because that is their one big vulnerability. The bad news for the PC-guys is that Apple appears to be doing exactly that. By the time the rest of the industry coalesces around a coherent strategy (which I'll bet involves either Windows 8 or 9), Apple may have closed the enterprise gap, at which point it might just be too late for the PC guys.

And now think about it: if you take a 16GB WiFi for $499 and you even don't need a mouse etc. that's even nearly 320% cheaper then he claims! That should leave these competitors flummoxed ...
(OK, $499 is 70% of $1600 - but getting from $499 to $1600, that's really a 320% increase.)

Only replying to your mouse comment. I am still trying to get my head around mention of a mouse!

p.s. This illustrates how ridiculous multi-comment replies are ... (no offense to you Soli)

Yes the Dell tablets will require a mouse, a keyboard.... The whole nine yards!
That is his "vision"

ROTFLMAO at some of those (soon to be former) execs' comments

This takes "corporate prostitution" to a whole 'nother level. This isn't a ball-game where trash-talking is a given and sometimes funny. This is a high-level executive of a major company plain out LYING about their competition.

Considering that the courts in Ami-Land are so full of baseless lawsuits, I'm NOT going to call for one... however, this looks serious borderline to me. And imagine the salespeople using those exact lines when consulting with potential clients that don't have the time to look into the facts. Yes it's the client's problem for not doing so... but still, I'd be interested in hearing if there might be liability or the possibility of contract-cancellation in the very least, if a small biz actually believed this shit and decided to back out when the "Dell Plan" obviously didn't work.... and/or it was found that the entire plan/concept was based on out-and-out lies.

I suppose I'm barking up the wrong tree here, but I'm held to a certain amount of accountability contractual-wise, and even monetarily (insurance) if I can't deliver here in Germany. If it's found out that I grossly lied to get a contract, I could very well find myself in court pronto. Make that 95% sure I would. Also if my competition got wind of this... they might go after me as well (not unheard of).

It's why in Germany you can't even advertise with the words, "We're The Best" unequivocally. You must qualify your claim with an independent public study/rating, like those from JDPowers for cars. Even then... better to stay away from claiming anything, other than putting the stamp/rating out there for all to see and make their own assumptions or let them research further.

All in all... those were lies from Dell. What's the next strategy: telling business partners and clients that you'll pull their licenses or warranties unless they dump all of their iDevices? Didn't some big tech company already do something similar to that... and I believe there was a monopoly problem? Hmm... who was that now?

I know this is a good old joke as MD said this of Apple. However, the day will come in the not so far off future when they have to do the former but will be unable to do the latter. Then I will really laugh.

What's really funny with these know-it-alls is that they speak with such passion you'd think that they are simply defensive for their own incompetence.

I got news for Dell: if some tablet copycat ends up eating Apple's lunch, it won't be Dell-Hell! Not with 10 minute battery life!

All of this is nothing more that PR crap to appease investors. They "want" to believe this, but inside they're crapping their pants.

Claiming that the iPad "needs" a keyboard and a mouse clearly shows that they don't get it. And why is it that everyone is having a heck of a time competing with Apple on the price in addition to overall quality and user experience?

I do feel that Android is going to get it's share and be competitive for Apple. Given that it's on a ton of different handsets from a ton of different vendors will give it market share. The thing is, it will be a situation where you have a lot of companies, investing a lot to make a little. Overall market share may be impressive, but it will be so diluted no one will be getting rich.

Open doesn't always equal better. More market share doesn't equal better.

Dell is not a bad company, but they've never understood that and they clearly don't understand the iPad.

Apple's competitors are lead by incompetent assholes. And like any asshole, they want to leave no doubt about it. Shout it from the mountaintop, boys: "We're clueless, and we want the world to know!! (Oh, and by the way, be nice and buy our products, 'cause our competitor is evil. But we're not. Thanks!)"


Well, to be fair: It takes a special talent to crap your pants from the outside.

Maybe Dell are working on a hybrid device that can be either a tablet or a PC hence the inclusion of a mouse. Perhaps this is just the opening salvo in a claim that a dual purpose device is superior. They must be pretty desperate to have anything that is competitive. Surely no one in his position is dumb enough to think a touch based OS requires or could even use a mouse?

No I didn't even catch that mouse comment. Yea, I think he missed the boat on the new touch screen interfaces. He's head of sales and marketing huh....

It's nice to see that Dell and Friends are so open to hiring the mentally challenged.

Exactly! When you stop and thing about it the likes of DELL never really had any need to innovate ... ever. All they ever did was make beige boxes and load MS Windows. That's it. They were simply box makers. They never ever had a product of their own, never ever had to innovate, never ever had to think past making beige boxes cheaper and faster than the next beige box maker.

You have to have some pity for them, it must suddenly feel very scary for the likes of DELL. They need an original product (not in their DNA) or simply go back to making boxes (in this case tablets) and putting Android on them as per their previous business model except ... OMG they can't do it faster and cheaper this time. DELL are screwed as no one will want a beige box (or any color) soon and they can't compete in the tablet market.

Maybe someone can translate this for me, because to me it reads like someone who just scored bigtime on his game of bullshit-bingo

Quickly: regarding this "open debate" and how great it is:

1) what's out there now to secure Android against malware/virus attacks for the enterprise, and for individuals;

2) how long will Google continue to develop Android/Chrome if:

a) they lose against Oracle, and/or

b) due to restrictions of the providers and high costs of mobile plans, it becomes common knowledge that to save on bandwidth, all people will also install adblockers (amazingly available in the Marketplace already). Considering that's the only real reason Google develops Android (AdMob), and the only way developers can make money on it is by integrating ads... well when does Google get tired, as they have shown in the past, of going further if THEY are not making any money doing so.

The only alternative left is MS. Are the calling themselves "open source" now? Did I miss something? Has hell really frozen over?

Ok, sure, both of these execs are making up bizarre reasons why their products will succeed, and apple's ridiculously successful iPad will soon fall flat on it's face, never to sell more than 50 units a day again.

But what else can they do? Apple is probably nearing the 20 million mark for tablets sold, while all the other vendors haven't even shipped half that amount to retailers, combined, let alone actually sold the products to living customers. The current iPad incarnation is getting some of the most positive reviews for any product on the planet. Seriously, I think the most common complaint in all the reviews is that the buttons feel wonky on a tilted surface.

So, what? Are they gonna go to the press and brag about how flush their buttons and dock connectors are? Or should they just throw up their hands and say, oh well, enjoy the entire post-pc market by yourself, apple.

So all they can do is brag about how awesome android is, cuz it's open, even tho you can't actually adjust honeycomb right now. Or say that apple's products are over priced and throw out numbers associated with apple's professional laptops because they can resonate with certain demographics. Or so that, actually, behind the scenes, apple's a mean bully who won't play nice and steals everyone's lunch money when customers aren't looking.

All that said in their defense, how out of sorts do you have to be to talk about mice when discussing tablets? they're grasping at straws and apparently claiming the only mice that work with iPads are iPhones, which in combination with a keyboard and a case, still wouldn't be the $800 you'd need to justify his arguments.

Yes, and now there's no one who can feed them an 'iPad killer' OS. Eventually, someone (probably Google) will offer them something (probably Honeycomb) they can build a box around. But even when that day comes, this isn't the Apple that Dell was competing against back in the day. It's unlikely they can build tablets more price-effectively than Apple without making something that's very noticeably cheaper.

'Cheaper' tablets do have their place. Kindles sell well, and they're quite good at what they do. But no one's mistaking them for iPads. What these pathetic, lying corporate weasels want you to believe is that whatever they manage to drool out over the next couple of years will be 'just as good' as an iPad. But by then, everyone in the market for a tablet will have at least seen an iPad, and they'll know better.

Like you said, it'll get a "market share" that people can quote in propaganda, but what does that add up to? Of course, most of us are immune to the Fandroids' claims that Android is an "open" platformbut actually Android isn't even "a" closed platform; it's dozens of competing closed platforms. The only one making money is Google, from delivering eyeballs to the spamsters. Even at that, I think Android has pretty much peaked even in the phone space.

Trying to transfer the (relative) success of Android in the phone market to the tablet market is just silly, though. As a thought experiment, think of the smartphone market when Android came out as the computer market without Windows. Suppose all you could get were Macs and a few bargain-basement toys with proprietary OSs. Then Linux comes along. All of a sudden manufacturers had an OS they could put on their computers that was "good enough" and could sell them a lot cheaper than Macs. There would be a huge number of people buying them. Maybe 1% of them would be tech geeks with some kind of ideological commitment to "open" OSs, and who don't mind basically writing their own OS on the fly to get anything done, but most would simply want a computer and to pay less than they had to pay for a Mac.

Now transfer this to the tablet market. The iPad is already there, but instead of being premium-priced, it's the cheapest! Would a "free" alternative that requires a much steeper learning curve and can't even deliver lower prices get much of a foothold? I don't think so. There may eventually be a few really shoddy Android tablets that can beat the iPad (or the iPad from two years before) on price, but they're going to be so obviously inferior that I think they'll be a hard sell. They'll be left with that hard core 1% of tech geeks, the Open Source ideologues, and the knee-jerk Apple-haters. How much "market share" does that add up to? I don't know, but what I do know is they won't be making anybody any money. Except Google and the spamsters, of course.

Does anyone even know what 'inclusive philosophy of partner capabilities' even means? I work in management consulting, so come across this sort of bullshit every day. But even I have trouble translating this (and anything that comes out of RIM's co-CEOs).

"Lark congratulated Apple for igniting the tablet opportunity with the iPad, while predicting that the device will ultimately fall to more "open" competitors. I couldnt be happier that Apple has created a market and built up enthusiasm but longer term, open, capable and affordable will win, not closed, high price and proprietary,

Ah! I get it now. Thank you Larkman, all-seeing, all-knowing, the IT Superhero leading his entirely derivative outfit ever onward and upwards.

I've always wondered how Linux beat Windows.

Now I know! It's because of The Lark Reality Distortion Field Mandate: "Open, capable and affordable will win, not closed, high price and proprietary"

Oh, very good stuff! Well aged... Here's the supplier to all the top Dell execs, so I've heard...


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I like this one. I am kinda in between iPhone, recently lost one and really want to wait for the new one rather than getting the iphone 4 at the moment. So I decided to get one of the android phone to feel the new touch, HTC desire HD. You can't imagine how much it amazed me for the first time i went to their Market and saw plenty of the Anti virus apps just like you see on the PC. I did not expect virus to be such an issue on such a phone. It makes my grief over the iPhone worse.

It is really inexplicable how these executives even insisted on saying that in public. After my two weeks, I can tell all sorts of drawbacks you can get from an Android. Notwithstanding its prowess at social integration and widgets on home screen, apps are really unpolished (one sticky note app is my favorite though). Where can i find aNotes or my very decent Air Mouse apps. Battery is horrible. No wonder why they are all so fussy about replaceable battery.

The rom update system in particular is such a Tangled. Rooting is much more convoluted than us jailbreaking.

The experience is fresh but not great. I dont see why I would want to try a android table.

I went to bed late last night, so I woke up this morning still feeling sleepy. I rolled over and reached groggily for my iPad 2. Fired up NewsRack, just to see what the latest rumor was about WWDC and the timing of the release or announcement of iPhone 5. Out of curiosity I decided to check out what Dell and HP had to say about Apple.

Now I'm wide awake. The combination of incredibly inane comments, wishful thinking, and utter frustration expressed by the Dell and HP guys and the amusing comments by posters here made me burst out laughing. The mouse comment alone jolted me into alertness. Who needs coffee?

$499 is 70% of $1600? Since when?