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post #41 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

The problem today is people are willing to give up on a phone being a good phone just to have all kinds of features on the phone.

I am of the mind set if the phone can not make a good call the rest of it is not worth it. The iphone is not good at calls, and it not all the network either.

I am in agreement. I leave the house each morning and always double check: wallet, iPhone, house key, coffee. That's it, I'm good to go. If there was a phone that just made really clear calls and was, say, only as big as a Shuffle, I'd consider adding that to my morning checklist.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #42 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blastdoor View Post

sorry if somebody already said this (I was skimming comments kinda fast), but remember all the chuckleheads last year who insisted that the iPad was not having any real effect on the PC or netbook markets? I'm thinking of people like Paul Thurrott (who also begged his readers to please, please, please not buy an iPad).

Time for Gruber to serve up some claim chowder.

Well I can't wait until Saturday morning to read what the Macalope over at Macworld is "hoofing" out over the news this week. He's probably started over a couple of times, because this weeks "Juic-E-Newz-Extract" makes the Kool-Aid go down smoother
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Knowing what you are talking about would help you understand why you are so wrong. By "Realistic" - AI Forum Member
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post #43 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

My point is that those devices introduced millions of people to the quality of Apple products and services plus also the availability of MS Office and the option to dual windows has led more people to choose a Mac over a PC.

Your original point was:

"That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy."

What you, and others, fail to recognize is the fact that Apple .... on all of it's product, including the iPod, iPhone and iPad line, control the making of the software and hardware ... together. They do this because it's consistant with their philosophy.

Steve has said many, many times and in many ways that the reason that they are in business is to make the best product that they are capable of. I know other companies say similar things about their product but you only have to see what kind of decisions they make to see that their hearts and souls are not tied in to that philosopy .... too many decisions that are profit based rather than quality based.

As an example, how many computer manufacturers today .... make a laptop with a unibody aluminum design ... out of a single block of aluminum ? AFAIK ....only Apple. Could that laptop be made cheaper ? Of course, but then it wouldn't have the same quality. IMHO, that's what keeps Apple in the lead ..... their focus on design and quality over pricing.

Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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Newbee says:  Using a Mac "inspires" you, using all others just ... tires you.  

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post #44 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

your last sentence explains it and completely contradicts your first. It's the vision of thinking 20 years down the road combined with the clarity to not release junk just to get something on the market that creates Apple's loyal customers.

The mess that is the Win32 API vs the uniformity and scalability of the OS X APIs has everything to do with that vision of not just building for today, but planning for the future. Decisions over 20 years ago at NeXT are a huge part of why Apple is where they are today and why they can move innovate and move forward faster than their competition.

And it's not just planning for the future, it's the attention to detail every step of the way. All the way back to the original Apple 2 where Jobs made Woz design an all new power supply to eliminate the fan before they released it. Any other company would have just had a fan to ship the product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

You start out with this nonsensical statement, then proceed to write 3 lucid paragraphs destroying your topic sentence. Interesting.

You two miss the whole point of what a cult is.. The cult leaders usually have a vision and they are usually fanatical about the details and things have to be done their way. The cult leader also knows what their followers want and gives it to them at the appropriate times. They usually do not give them everything, keep them wanting more or the next thing.

So yes Apple is a cult, people are bought in, even people who probably can not afford it. they can not seem to live without it.

The competitor are do not have this, they do not leave people wanting more, they are very transactional at best, they only worry about the current transaction not any future one, they do not worry about the person leaving their church the figure someone new will walk in behind them.

Honestly, if Steve was not technology geek he probably would have been a cult leader, oh yeah he is that, he has the largest cult in the world besides a few well known religions.

BTW, if you have not figures it out, it is a metaphor for their business practices.
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post #45 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:49am
Or - why not offer your CEO and incentive - whereby he gets some huge bonus - or direct percentage of the profits for any product that he (or she) brings to market which beats Apple.


Hmmm.... Great idea! Let's give them smaller wage packages but offset it with stock options as part of their compensation. That way, if they guide the company well and share holder value goes up, the CEO can sell his stock and make a nice profit for his effort. I can't believe no one ever thought of that before.
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post #46 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:50am
Agree with the comments above about vision/hardware/Software. I would add a brilliant marketing campaign over the years. Not only are Apple products practical, but cool too. In our society today, for better or worse, this sells big time.

(edit Subject - "One More thing")
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post #47 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy. Macs didn't save Apple, the iPod did, then the iPhone and now the iPad have made it hugely successful. If it weren't for those devices Apple would be a very different company, and it would've been SJ getting fired yet again.

the business model didn't have them at the brink of bankruptcy, it was the incompetence at the top under Sculley/Gasse/Spindler of advancing things and sustaining the model. To the point where they had to scrap everything and start over. Sculley had a brief golden period of riding the coattails of what was built before him, but lacked the technical expertise to help the company stay ahead.

The business model itself is a proven success and now has Apple as the 2nd largest company in the world. And the business model is the reason Apple can release products that cause their competitors to throw their newly announced products in the trash and start over. Apple is the only company that does what they do - design the hardware and the software across a range of products that spans desktop computers, notebook computers and mobile devices. Everything from the core OS, to the user interface, to custom silicone to every detail of industrial engineering. That's the only way to have all of the resulting pieces fit together like a glove. They even advance the glass and aluminum technology they use. Nobody else does all of that.

And at this point, nobody else even has the resources and experience to attempt it. Dell isn't going to build a scalable OS - that's a decade long project, Microsoft isn't going to suddenly build computers, Google isn't going to start developing new types of glass.

Edit: Apple's infrastructure extends all the way down to free support at the genius bars in their stores.
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post #48 of 98
4/1/11 at 9:59am
Jobs has been proven right again when he said the competitors were "flummoxed". Sad.
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post #49 of 98
4/1/11 at 10:11am
I hope Apple has started a revolution where large corporations put the customer first instead of the stock price. Too many of these guys who were fired were focused on looking good to the stock holders instead of the people who bought their products. Steve jobs and Apple go out of their way to make products that the average person can use and use well.

If someone would interview the many thousands of people lined up to buy the iPad 2, they would learn something. Give the customer something easy to use, quality built, supremely supported and intelligently designed and they will throw money at them. Is that so hard to understand? These guys deserve to get fired.
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post #50 of 98
4/1/11 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

They are the MOST profitable PC makers in the world. . . .
I think this article explains the rise of the Apple haters on the web. All those jobless ex-CEOs . . . spitting vitriol towards Apple, who played a huge part in their dismissals.

I believe you are close in your examination, addicted44. However, I think the envy and job concern predates jobless ex-CEOs going back to computer systems technicians.

I remember them keeping labs in order and computers free of virus infection for PCs. Computer repair businesses were the same. Apple computers seemed to run themselves and often school librarians were in charge of maintaining school labs. The PC fixers' livelihoods depended upon fluky PC hard and software so of course they pooh-poohed Apple. They had their own mythology to protect their jobs and purpose and this carried through to the techno-geeks that felt comfortable and superior with their ability to "fix" theirs and others PCs.

It carries on today with such EnvyNerds who can't stand the likes of the iPad or Mac computers that just work as expected.

But basically, addicted44, you and I are singing the same tune.
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post #51 of 98
4/1/11 at 11:08am
"outmatched in terms of both hardware and software."

Acer went for market share instead of profits. By selling e-waste-ready netbooks at razor thin margins. iPad put an end to that strategy and Acer will probably not be able to compete.

Acer's new strategy is to sell higher-profit devices? Like iPad clones? I don't think it's possible to make money doing that. Apple gets the best component prices since they place the biggest orders with their suppliers. Apple has already become the world's biggest consumer of flash memory, and everyone else needs to outbid each other to get the remainder. Now Apple is doing the same with the world's supply of touch screens. The result? Apple gets lower per-unit prices and bigger margins.

And that's just the hardware side of the problem. On the software side, Acer doesn't own an OS. They are at the mercy of Microsoft and/or Google. Neither of which has shown any ability to compete with Apple and iOS in the pad computing space. Microsoft's major partner is Nokia, and all the rest are generic me-too no-hopers. Google has clamped down on Android fragmentation, which means their hardware partners will also be generic me-too no-hoper cloners. That simply won't be profitable.

And after the Oracle lawsuit is resolved, the best case scenario is that all Android manufacturers will pay Oracle for each and every handset and pad they make. This eliminates the last remaining advantage Android had. No more open, no more free, no more differentiation. Google is the new Microsoft, at least in terms of OSes.

Could Acer write their own OS? Yes, but it would take 5 years to develop the OS and 5 years after that to build an iTunes / App Store-like infrastructure. And by then, in 2021, Apple will have already moved on to the next big thing. Been there, distrupted that. What's next?

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post #52 of 98
4/1/11 at 11:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Your original point was:

"That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy."

What you, and others, fail to recognize is the fact that Apple .... on all of it's product, including the iPod, iPhone and iPad line, control the making of the software and hardware ... together. They do this because it's consistant with their philosophy.

Steve has said many, many times and in many ways that the reason that they are in business is to make the best product that they are capable of. I know other companies say similar things about their product but you only have to see what kind of decisions they make to see that their hearts and souls are not tied in to that philosopy .... too many decisions that are profit based rather than quality based.

As an example, how many computer manufacturers today .... make a laptop with a unibody aluminum design ... out of a single block of aluminum ? AFAIK ....only Apple. Could that laptop be made cheaper ? Of course, but then it wouldn't have the same quality. IMHO, that's what keeps Apple in the lead ..... their focus on design and quality over pricing.

Yes that model works for Apple but do you believe anyone else is capable of using it successfully? What would've happened had Dell, HP, Gateway, etc… all decided to run their own OSs? How many different platforms can the market handle?
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #53 of 98
4/1/11 at 11:24am
I'm investing in sword futures. There's going to be a reasonably high demand for them so these guys can fall on them.
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post #54 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:01pm
Of, course. ...and i think Apple success has caused Egypt to overthrow their dictator, and helped the US dollar to improve across the world. This is the most amazing reporting I have ever heard. So what successes from competitors caused recent Apple exec departures, you geniuses.
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post #55 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilgto64 View Post

as a tangent - I think the major factor limiting Apple's market share was not price per unit - but that the products last so long - you only need to buy them half as often as competitor's products get replaced.

The upside of that is after two or three years a Mac is worth 70% or more of the original price if it is in great condition with all the original packing. Compare that to a PC! This allows folks like me to upgrade often while the second hand one I sell often goes to a new Apple user who otherwise couldn't afford a Mac and would have bought a PC.

On top of that most people I know once they buy something from Apple, buy another and another and another ... part of that is the fact they are so well made and last forever. So, in the broader picture I don't think the build quality limits Apple sales as you suggest, quite the reverse IMHO.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
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post #56 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy. Macs didn't save Apple, the iPod did, then the iPhone and now the iPad have made it hugely successful. If it weren't for those devices Apple would be a very different company, and it would've been SJ getting fired yet again.

Your argument makes no sense at all. The iPod, iPhone, and iPad are exactly the same as the Mac, hardware and software fully integrated, the "walled garden" the critics like to bash. The original bondi blue iMac changed the equation. I do not agree at all with your assertion that making the hardware and the software is not a good business model. This model has, in fact, made Apple the second most valuable company on the planet.
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post #57 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GQB View Post

If it was simply a matter of having a lot of money to throw at problems, then Meg Whitman would be Governor of California.
Jobs said it years ago in the famous quote that Microsoft's problem was simply that they had no taste.
Taste isn't something you can just buy. There really is a case for creative people having a seat at the table, not just end-of-quarter bean counters and feature check-off engineers.

Welcome to the forum.

Jobs said it years ago in the famous quote that Microsoft's problem was simply that they had no taste.

For those interested in seeing the clip containing the above quote, here is the url: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOgOP_aqqtg
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post #58 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

I believe you are close in your examination, addicted44. However, I think the envy and job concern predates jobless ex-CEOs going back to computer systems technicians.

I remember them keeping labs in order and computers free of virus infection for PCs. Computer repair businesses were the same. Apple computers seemed to run themselves and often school librarians were in charge of maintaining school labs. The PC fixers' livelihoods depended upon fluky PC hard and software so of course they pooh-poohed Apple. They had their own mythology to protect their jobs and purpose and this carried through to the techno-geeks that felt comfortable and superior with their ability to "fix" theirs and others PCs.

It carries on today with such EnvyNerds who can't stand the likes of the iPad or Mac computers that just work as expected.

But basically, addicted44, you and I are singing the same tune.

I have seen this above scenario play out so many times and it still does with a twist now though.

... The local PC repair nerds around here still do the same trick that's been going on for best part of three decades. They run up a large enough bill 'investigating' a PC problem to scare the crap out of the poor sod that took it in. Then the bait and switch ... "I can sell you (i.e. 'build') a new one for not much more (with Windows 7 big grin). Of course once the deal is done the PC is fixed in five minutes and sold or used for parts. The new twist? .... The nerds now have their own iPods and many also now have an MBP all their own hidden in back.
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Been using Apples since 1978 and Macs since 1984
Long on AAPL so biased. Strong advocate for separation of technology and politics on AI.
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post #59 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by newbee View Post

Your original point was:

As an example, how many computer manufacturers today .... make a laptop with a unibody aluminum design ... out of a single block of aluminum ? AFAIK ....only Apple. Could that laptop be made cheaper ? Of course, but then it wouldn't have the same quality. IMHO, that's what keeps Apple in the lead ..... their focus on design and quality over pricing.

I think the beauty of Apple is that Steve made you care whether your laptop was made out of one piece of aluminum. See the funny part is, no one should. There is absolutely no value to you other than bragging rights. But, don't worry, before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends that. Won't that be cool!!!!!

Btw, He also has everyone obsessed with thin. It fits in a backpack. What is the big deal about 0.3 inch. Give me a break.
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post #60 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhikl View Post

I believe you are close in your examination, addicted44. However, I think the envy and job concern predates jobless ex-CEOs going back to computer systems technicians.

I remember them keeping labs in order and computers free of virus infection for PCs. Computer repair businesses were the same. Apple computers seemed to run themselves and often school librarians were in charge of maintaining school labs. The PC fixers' livelihoods depended upon fluky PC hard and software so of course they pooh-poohed Apple. They had their own mythology to protect their jobs and purpose and this carried through to the techno-geeks that felt comfortable and superior with their ability to "fix" theirs and others PCs.

It carries on today with such EnvyNerds who can't stand the likes of the iPad or Mac computers that just work as expected.

But basically, addicted44, you and I are singing the same tune.

You guys are right-on! My experience with IT guys affirms your posts. The more complicated and abstruse the system, the more exclusive and "superior" the attitude. There is something innately controlling about IT guys.
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post #61 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

. . . before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends . . . Won't that be cool!!!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I have seen this above scenario play out so many times and it still does with a twist now though.

... The new twist? .... The nerds now have their own iPods and many also now have an MBP all their own hidden in back.

Nothing wrong with "cool" phalanx. I like girls to dress well, I choose great shoes because girls notice; style sells and if it gets you in the door and isn't just used to conceal bad graft, what the hey, eh?

The whirling dervishes springing for Apple products. I like it. I am now more informed and therefore more ballsy when I meet these dudes and I call their bluff. What I am finding more, however, is backtracking. Most of the intelligent ones will profess some admiration for Apple but then go on about what they can do with their M$ stuff since they know how to deal with M$ headaches. I can respect that.

There is a lot less profit for the independent sellers, now. I was reading Dvorak who finds he can't put a M$ DT together for less than what he purchase on the market which is as good or better. That totally takes the "cool" out of phalanx's preferences.
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post #62 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

Of, course. ...and i think Apple success has caused Egypt to overthrow their dictator, and helped the US dollar to improve across the world. This is the most amazing reporting I have ever heard. So what successes from competitors caused recent Apple exec departures, you geniuses.

Which Apple exec departures are you specifically referring to. You criticize the article yet offer no viewpoint or specifics on anything. At least the article expressed an opinion, valid or not, whereas your comment has no conversational value and is nothing but criticism.
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post #63 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

I think the beauty of Apple is that Steve made you care whether your laptop was made out of one piece of aluminum. See the funny part is, no one should. There is absolutely no value to you other than bragging rights. But, don't worry, before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends that. Won't that be cool!!!!!

Btw, He also has everyone obsessed with thin. It fits in a backpack. What is the big deal about 0.3 inch. Give me a break.


O.K. Phalanx (I almost typed phallus), it's time to come clean. It is one thing to hate Apple; it is quite another to come to a Mac blog and spew your venom and pester people, who, for the most part, are happy if not ecstatic about their Apple products.

Why do you hate Apple - specifically Steve Jobs, and why do you waste your valuable time proving you are a person of questionable morals and taste?

I have always believed hatred has its genesis in fear.
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post #64 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

I think the beauty of Apple is that Steve made you care whether your laptop was made out of one piece of aluminum. See the funny part is, no one should. There is absolutely no value to you other than bragging rights. But, don't worry, before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends that. Won't that be cool!!!!!

Btw, He also has everyone obsessed with thin. It fits in a backpack. What is the big deal about 0.3 inch. Give me a break.

moron
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post #65 of 98
4/1/11 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

I think the beauty of Apple is that Steve made you care whether your laptop was made out of one piece of aluminum. See the funny part is, no one should. There is absolutely no value to you other than bragging rights.

Unibody construction contributies to durability, rigidity and lightness. Aluminum machines well, is light, looks good and is ecologically advantageous.

The funny part is that you don't care, but you think that means no one should care. I think the beauty of the PC industry is that they've trained their users to treat PCs as disposable hunks of plastic distinguished solely by price.

Quote:
But, don't worry, before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends that. Won't that be cool!!!!!

Yes, the only possible explanation for Apple's huge success and meteoric rise to the top of the consumer products industry is that "Steve" has convinced hundreds of millions of people to pointlessly overpay for baubles. Which is why all those CEOs are resigning, they were just trying to make decent products for thrifty people but everyone is too stupid to be grateful.

Quote:
Btw, He also has everyone obsessed with thin. It fits in a backpack. What is the big deal about 0.3 inch. Give me a break.

Thin means easier to handle, easier to carry and lighter. In the case of the iPad, it contributes to an appreciably nice user experience. Most consumers seem to agree.

I think it's interesting that Apple haters are starting to seem like the cult, not Apple's users. Apple's users are huge numbers of mainstream folks who just want the best bang for their buck. In the face of that indisputable fact, the haters are left muttering about an apparently globe spanning RDF and mass hypnosis on an unprecedented scale.

Apple's success has been going on for a while. It's not a fad, it's not an anomaly, it's not a trick. They make products people want. You can explain that by claiming people want the wrong things for the wrong reason, but that just makes you a crank.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #66 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:02pm
Anyone suggesting that some companies are greedy and need to focus more on the customer instead of the stock price is being airhead silly. Of course you have to take care of the customer first, and the stock price rewards will follow in lock step. They are forever joined at the hip.

The single reason for Apple's success is the same as it is for any other hyper successful company .... offer stupendous products that people really want at prices they are willing to pay.... while leaving your competition standing on the side of the road asking themselves "what the hell just happened?"

No other company has come close to matching Apple's gamesmanship.

Try to imagine where the mobile gadgetry industry would be right now if it weren't for the influence of Apple and especially the gifted visionary SJ? Would we have multitouch screen phones with resolutions that match the human eye, or would we all still be fingering little slide out key pads or reading msgs on flip phones with 2 inch screens? Would wannabe iPads be 1/2 inch thick, weigh 2-3 pounds, and have battery lives of 3-4 hours? Would "The Cloud" still be something people talked about as maybe a reality 5-10 years from now? Would downloading music illegally still be considered a worthwhile sport?

Developing those ideas takes buckets of cash and courage. Does anyone really think RIM, Motorola, Samsung, or Nokia would be spending huge resources right now to try and stay in the game if they didn't have to? Maybe one or two of them will indeed come out with non-Apple cloned products that people want and are willing to fork over hard earned cash for. Let's hope so. Fortunately, in a free market society, the end user... the little guy... eventually wins.
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post #67 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dasanman69 View Post

That's because making the hardware and software isn't a good business model, it had Apple at the brink of bankruptcy. Macs didn't save Apple, the iPod did, then the iPhone and now the iPad have made it hugely successful. If it weren't for those devices Apple would be a very different company, and it would've been SJ getting fired yet again.


Let me clarify if I got your point correctly, it was the products iPod, IPhone and iPad that made Apple, what iy is todays. And the Apple Ecosystems that included the sofywares, among many other servirces, is not a good business model?

So if the much criticized "Walled Garden" -- an almost seamless integration of hardwares (learn one learn all), with an array of Apps (softwares), services (Genius Bar, One Stop Apple Store) and customer services (One-to-One,) and more --is nor a good business model -- why is every company that matter seem to bet running all over each other trying to emulate the "unsuccessful walled garden' of Apple?

And, Steve Jobs had nothing to do with those devices? If he had no significant role in their creation, would those hardware come out without Steve Jobs? If he did play a significant role, how could he have been fired a second time? To reiterate, if he played a role in fhs creation of those devices, how could Steve Jobs not envisioned the paradigm shift to mobile devices or more consumer-centric company?

It is true that Steve Jobs and Apple, by extension, could have made a very bad miscalculation since his return and that would have been the end of Apple.

But, it did not turn out that way.

Robert Frost wrote a verse, "The Road Not Taken", it very much captured what Steve Jobs did. Apple was at a cross-road. and he made a choice on what best to do -- not second guessing what could have been had he taken the other path.

What is just as important is that Steve Jobs had a vision, including taking the company in a path that was based on what you dubbed ""making the hardware and software isn't a good business model".

But that has been Apple all along before he was ousted from Apple. And, it worked -- it remained and is the basis of the success that defined the Apple of today.

CGC
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post #68 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:09pm
Wow. I am so proud of Apple. I bought my first Apple in 1983 (IIe) with a daisy wheel printer and Jasmine hard drive. $4K. I was a first class (E6) in the Navy with an annual salary $14K. Following year, sold everything and bought a Fat Mac and never looked back. My children always get apple products for xmas. The only premature failure we have experienced was last year my daughter dumped a cup of coffee on her MBP... Apple has always been about quality. As a CIO of a Gov agency, we use Windows Crap. Still using XP and 03 Server; 3,000 workstations and 120 servers. Staff of 40 techs. It is a shame knowing that we could be using a much better product, with less failure rate and higher client productivity. But then again, I would probably be out of a job....
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post #69 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maestro64 View Post

You two miss the whole point of what a cult is.. The cult leaders usually have a vision and they are usually fanatical about the details and things have to be done their way. The cult leader also knows what their followers want and gives it to them at the appropriate times. They usually do not give them everything, keep them wanting more or the next thing.

So yes Apple is a cult, people are bought in, even people who probably can not afford it. they can not seem to live without it. ...

I know what you're trying to say here but the analogy goes too far IMO.

Speaking as someone who has long studied cults, cult leaders, the history of cults and sociology in general, I can say without question that Apple is really nothing like a cult at all. Someone making you drink poison even when you know it will kill you, shows the power of being in a cult. Someone buying an Apple product that is actually a good product and improves your life in many concrete ways is not the same thing at all.

To call the people who buy Apple stuff part of a "cult" is just a dodge and is mostly put forward by people who have no real argument to explain their point of view. It's the same as calling someone a "fanboy/fangirl," in that what it really points out is that the person using the term has no real idea why people like the products in question and no real counter argument either. They therefore resort to the opinion that these people are "crazy" or obsessed in some way when it's not really true at all. People who buy Apple products can and do have many good reasons to purchase them.

A closer example (in consumer products), to being in a cult would be something like Coca-Cola, because there are much fewer (rational) reasons to drink it, and quite a few reasons why it's really a bad idea to drink it. Their love for the product, instilled in them by commercials and the society around them, overcomes the product's shortcomings. They know it's bad for them, but they buy it and drink it anyway. They are for the most part making an irrational decision simply because they've been "sold" on the idea of Coca-Cola.

By contrast, Apple products have very few shortcomings and the "downside" to buying them is very slight indeed, mostly consisting of the cost, and a few minor annoyances like censorship in the app store, and a bias towards the USA.
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post #70 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:37pm
Who would have ever thought that low cost manufacturers needed to be scared of Apple. Even Google, which gives stuff away for free, did not have such an impact on Acer and Asus as the iPad did.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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post #71 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonamac View Post

There seems to be only one way to describe the competition in the tablet/smartphone/content space at the moment: in total disarray.

....

Apple only sell 3 Macs, 3 MbPs, 2 MbAs, 2 iPhones and 1 iPad as mainstream products. That's a core of just 11 pieces of hardware.

I agree... look at Nokia's website
http://www.nokiausa.com/find-products

They have 22 different kinds of just phones! Apple has 1 phone. You can't buy the wrong one.
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post #72 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:59pm
I'm the CFO and IT guy for our small company (and video editor) and have moved all but 2 people to Apple computers over the last 5 years. Here is my speculation why they are doing so well and the other companies are firing their CEO's I remember the IIe (A friends dad had one). I had a Lamp iMac at my office for video Editing

To me the biggest advancements that allowed Apple to achieve this level of success where the change to Intel chip set, bootcamp and OSX. The change to Intel and bootcamp (Parallels and Fusion) allowed me to purchase one of those first intel MacBook Pro's (my son now uses that one). Once I started to use the machine I found that OSX was a much better OS than anything MS could ever come up with. The other thing I noticed was the superior build quality of the Mac.

Two things I noticed between my XP users versus Mac users:
1. The MacBooks always worked
2. I never had to work on the Macs to get rid of a virus
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post #73 of 98
4/1/11 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by phalanx View Post

I think the beauty of Apple is that Steve made you care whether your laptop was made out of one piece of aluminum. See the funny part is, no one should. There is absolutely no value to you other than bragging rights. But, don't worry, before long Steve will convince you that your laptop should be made of carbon fiber or maybe kevlar. Then you will be able to tell your friends that. Won't that be cool!!!!!

Btw, He also has everyone obsessed with thin. It fits in a backpack. What is the big deal about 0.3 inch. Give me a break.

You are just too critical of Apple and everything about it. Sad thing is, your criticism is pointless.
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post #74 of 98
4/1/11 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Please leave politics out of this.

Did I miss something? I certainly didn't see anything remotely political posted before your post.
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post #75 of 98
4/1/11 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Realistic View Post

Which Apple exec departures are you specifically referring to. You criticize the article yet offer no viewpoint or specifics on anything. At least the article expressed an opinion, valid or not, whereas your comment has no conversational value and is nothing but criticism.

Bob Borchers, Mark Papermaster, Pablo Calamera, Graeme Devine, to name a few.
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post #76 of 98
4/1/11 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

They have. But they aren't the only reason that macs are doing well. Apple was the most profitable PC maker even before the iPhone was introduced in 2007. It was selling the most >$1000 computers even in 2006.

I am not saying they weren't the most profitable - but saying they sold the most >$1000 computers is no proof of them being the most profitable. If you think about it, it is possible to have sold the most computers > $1000 and be least profitable. Or even be unprofitable.
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post #77 of 98
4/1/11 at 3:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

Your argument makes no sense at all. The iPod, iPhone, and iPad are exactly the same as the Mac, hardware and software fully integrated, the "walled garden" the critics like to bash. The original bondi blue iMac changed the equation. I do not agree at all with your assertion that making the hardware and the software is not a good business model. This model has, in fact, made Apple the second most valuable company on the planet.

Yes they're the same when it comes to hardware and software integration but where they differ is in price. Much cheaper buying a iPod or iPhone than a Mac. For millions the iPod was the first Apple product they ever owned and started to see things Apple's way. I really don't think the masses know they're in a walled garden, because they're content going on Facebook, Netflix, YouTube, Google, Yahoo, etc and not worry about viruses and such. Btw just because the business model works for Apple it doesn't mean everyone should follow suit.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #78 of 98
4/1/11 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgc0202 View Post

Let me clarify if I got your point correctly, it was the products iPod, IPhone and iPad that made Apple, what iy is todays. And the Apple Ecosystems that included the sofywares, among many other servirces, is not a good business model?

So if the much criticized "Walled Garden" -- an almost seamless integration of hardwares (learn one learn all), with an array of Apps (softwares), services (Genius Bar, One Stop Apple Store) and customer services (One-to-One,) and more --is nor a good business model -- why is every company that matter seem to bet running all over each other trying to emulate the "unsuccessful walled garden' of Apple?

And, Steve Jobs had nothing to do with those devices? If he had no significant role in their creation, would those hardware come out without Steve Jobs? If he did play a significant role, how could he have been fired a second time? To reiterate, if he played a role in fhs creation of those devices, how could Steve Jobs not envisioned the paradigm shift to mobile devices or more consumer-centric company?

It is true that Steve Jobs and Apple, by extension, could have made a very bad miscalculation since his return and that would have been the end of Apple.

But, it did not turn out that way.

Robert Frost wrote a verse, "The Road Not Taken", it very much captured what Steve Jobs did. Apple was at a cross-road. and he made a choice on what best to do -- not second guessing what could have been had he taken the other path.

What is just as important is that Steve Jobs had a vision, including taking the company in a path that was based on what you dubbed ""making the hardware and software isn't a good business model".

But that has been Apple all along before he was ousted from Apple. And, it worked -- it remained and is the basis of the success that defined the Apple of today.

CGC

No that's not what I meant. I'm just saying that the iPod, iTunes, iPhone, and the iPad has taken Apple to another level. Many of the older Apple heads used to say Apple doesn't care about market share yet having a HUGE market share with iPods, iPhones, and iPads has led to exponential growth and the increase sales in Macs is a direct correlation of this. I wonder how many people walked into a Apple store simply to get their iPod serviced and walked out with a MacBook, iMac, Mac mini, etc
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #79 of 98
4/1/11 at 3:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ecphorizer View Post

Did I miss something? I certainly didn't see anything remotely political posted before your post.

You're right. The posts he was referring to were removed.
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
Reply
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject" - Winston Churchill
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #80 of 98
4/1/11 at 4:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alladdinn View Post

You guys are right-on! My experience with IT guys affirms your posts. The more complicated and abstruse the system, the more exclusive and "superior" the attitude. There is something innately controlling about IT guys.

I'll second these remarks. But I'll add in some really ancient history as well. I remember working in places where there were "computer rooms" where the Vax or IBM or DG equipment sat, tended by buys in white lab coats who lived in their own world and had virtually no interaction with the rest of the folks in the company. If you had a problem wiht your terminal, you wrote a complaint on a piece of paper and slipped it under the door, then waited and waited and waited. I used to half expect these guys to be wearing pointed blue hats and robes with all sorts of sorcery and D&D-like symbols printed on them.

To Dick A: No offense intended.
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