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Gartner's iPhone, Android predictions radically revised in a year and a half - Page 2

post #41 of 209
4/9/11 at 4:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

If Gartner is so wrong, why do you keep posting their stuff AI?

That's for entertainment. Gartner is one of laughing stock. You can get more on macalope.com.
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post #42 of 209
4/9/11 at 4:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuwafuwa View Post

From 300+ Android phones, may be only 10% are on par or slightly better than 3GS, the rest are crap. Even Android tablets are barely keeping up with iPad 1. It just like saying number of sold stones outnumbers number of sold gold.

And the remaining 90% are better than the iPhone 4. , considering the iPhone 4 has more issues than the 3GS, e.g. antenna problems.
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post #43 of 209
4/9/11 at 4:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by srathi View Post

And the remaining 90% are better than the iPhone 4. , considering the iPhone 4 has more issues than the 3GS, e.g. antenna problems.

Did you read, "the rest are crap"? yes, 90% are better than iPhone 4 on ugliness, speed of draining battery, weight, etc.
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post #44 of 209
4/9/11 at 4:19pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by fuwafuwa View Post

Did you read, "the rest are crap"? yes, 90% are better than iPhone 4 on ugliness, speed of draining battery, weight, etc.

And you make these claims based on hands-on experience, right?
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post #45 of 209
4/9/11 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by srathi View Post

And the remaining 90% are better than the iPhone 4. , considering the iPhone 4 has more issues than the 3GS, e.g. antenna problems.

"Antenna problems" that everybody else has too, but nobody else gets razzed about? Yes, if you stuff an iPhone 4 three feet up your colon, you'll lose some signal, but that's true of every cell phone. I invite you to try it.

I notice you still haven't copped to putting my name on a quote that wasn't mine....
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post #46 of 209
4/9/11 at 4:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

"Antenna problems" that everybody else has too, but nobody else gets razzed about? Yes, if you stuff an iPhone 4 three feet up your colon, you'll lose some signal, but that's true of every cell phone. I invite you to try it.

I notice you still haven't copped to putting my name on a quote that wasn't mine....

I recently moved to a new place. I was really disappointed because my iPhone 3GS couldn't pick up a strong signal when I sit in my lounge. If I touched the phone, it would drop the signal completely and the only way to get a signal while holding it was to hold it right up to the corner of the window.

A few weeks after I moved, I also got myself a new Samsung Omnia 7. I'm using the same SIM card on the same network, but now I get a consistent 1-2 bars and can easily make calls and use data from anywhere in the room. I can hold the phone as much as I want and I don't need to move to the window to get a signal.

I'm not saying that this is evidence that iPhone is flawed, but in my experience iPhone 3GS's antenna is weaker than my Samsung phone (which also has a back that is clad entirely in metal).
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post #47 of 209
4/9/11 at 4:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

I recently moved to a new place. I was really disappointed because my iPhone 3GS couldn't pick up a strong signal when I sit in my lounge. If I touched the phone, it would drop the signal completely and the only way to get a signal while holding it was to hold it right up to the corner of the window.

A few weeks after I moved, I also got myself a new Samsung Omnia 7. I'm using the same SIM card on the same network, but now I get a consistent 1-2 bars and can easily make calls and use data from anywhere in the room. I can hold the phone as much as I want and I don't need to move to the window to get a signal.

I'm not saying that this is evidence that iPhone is flawed, but in my experience iPhone 3GS's antenna is weaker than my Samsung phone (which also has a back that is clad entirely in metal).

I believe youthere's going to be a lot of variation with any hardware. Somebody somewhere else might have the opposite experience, who knows? I think our new Indian outsourced astroturfer was referring to the iPhone 4 "Antennagate" non-troversy, that's why I said what I did.
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post #48 of 209
4/9/11 at 5:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyguido View Post

... So, because google claims android is an open OS, people compare it to windows. This is ridiculous, even of android were open, then it would be Linux, not windows.

Wintel PC's had proprietary software (Windows) running on open hardware. Android is proprietary hardware running partially open software.

Partially open, as none of the high value Google apps are "open" and partially open because hardware manufacturers and carriers can add their own elements to base Android.

In this sense, base OS X (Darwin) is an "open" OS, missing only Apple's high value apps and without Apple's UI.
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post #49 of 209
4/9/11 at 5:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwdav View Post

Wintel PC's had proprietary software (Windows) running on open hardware. Android is proprietary hardware running partially open software.

Partially open, as none of the high value Google apps are "open" and partially open because hardware manufacturers and carriers can add their own elements to base Android.

In this sense, base OS X (Darwin) is an "open" OS, missing only Apple's high value apps and without Apple's UI.


it was, yes. Exactly the same.
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post #50 of 209
4/9/11 at 5:57pm
Everyone knows that you are a micro$oft PR machine with ZERO credibility! If I wanted your opinion, I'd ask Ballmer!
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post #51 of 209
4/9/11 at 5:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

When Apple re-releases the iPhone 3GS as a $200 contract-free smartphone, Android growth will flat-out

I think that's the most important point. These predictions are made based on the fact that nothing will change.

Apple dropped a bomb with the iPad and extended the smartphone to a mobile platform, making companies that don't have a tablet look a bit dated.

These current predictions are based on Apple only staying in the top end of the market and not contesting the bottom end. If Apple release a budget iPhone to take on Android and WP7 then these predictions will have to be revised again.


That said, I think it will be a strange world where WP7 doesn't have at least a certain amount of success.

It really is a fantastic OS. If I couldn't have my iPhone I'd pick WP7 over the alternatives in a heartbeat.

If we were just looking at how the base OS fits together it's actually class leading... however it's missing critical features (like tethering) and a mobile platform (there's no tablet).
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post #52 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Add to that Android currently growing at a faster pace than iOS. Could that 300,000 Android devices per day three months ago have grown to 350,000 or more per day now? The clear lead that iOS had in the middle of 2010 may be much more tenuous now. IMHO, it is a possibility that Android is currently outselling all iOS devices combined.

Who is buying these thousands of Android devices?

Google's business model is selling ads. Android is supposed to put more ads in front of more eyeballs. So where are all these eyeballs? I run several websites with various target market segments and I am not seeing any Android hits in my Analytics reports. I also have a number of associates who also have sites and use Google Analytics. None of us are seeing any 'ADdroid' hits.

On the other hand iOS device page views are through the roof.

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post #53 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:10pm
Apparently a lot of buyers. I didn't think anyone doubted they were selling. Your site must be the exception since the latest figures show Android pulling 51% of all ad impressions.

http://www.phbeta.com/google-android...-the-3rd-time/

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post #54 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Apparently a lot of buyers. I didn't think anyone doubted they were selling.

http://www.phbeta.com/google-android...-the-3rd-time/

That company is measuring ads to it's network,not to iAds or Ad mob.
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post #55 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

That company is measuring ads to it's network,not to iAds or Ad mob.

I think ad impressions is defined as how many times your ad was presented, not necessarily how many were clicked. But I am seeing the exact opposite of the metrics being reported in that piece. So I am skeptical. I don't use Ad Words but I host Ad Sense and I get lots of clicks, however, as stated earlier, almost zero Android page views, so something is amiss.

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post #56 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think ad impressions is defined as how many times your ad was presented, not necessarily how many were clicked. But I am seeing the exact opposite of the metrics being reported in that piece. So I am skeptical. I don't use Ad Words but I host Ad Sense and I get lots to clicks, however, as stated earlier, almost zero Android page views, so something is amiss.

what I am saying is that they are measuring the devs who use their API - http://wiki.millennialmedia.com/index.php/IPhone_SDK, not iADs etc. iPhone devs are probably more likely to use iADs, and, of course, there are more paid apps.
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post #57 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

what I am saying is that they are measuring the devs who use their API - http://wiki.millennialmedia.com/index.php/IPhone_SDK, not iADs etc. iPhone devs are probably more likely to use iADs, and, of course, there are more paid apps.

I see. Well I believe there are a thousand fold more web page ads than app ads so I am gauging a different environment for sure. Do Android people just use free apps and never surf the actual web?

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post #58 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I think ad impressions is defined as how many times your ad was presented, not necessarily how many were clicked. But I am seeing the exact opposite of the metrics being reported in that piece. So I am skeptical. I don't use Ad Words but I host Ad Sense and I get lots of clicks, however, as stated earlier, almost zero Android page views, so something is amiss.

Agreed that if you're not seeing any activity from Android owners then something isn't right. I'd suspect it's the way results are being reported. With Android smartphones outselling iPhones according to all sources it doesn't make sense you don't see any of them.

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post #59 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Agreed that if you're not seeing any activity from Android owners then something isn't right. I'd suspect it's the way results are being reported. With Android smartphones outselling iPhones according to all sources it doesn't make sense you don't see any of them.

I don't know Google Analytics browser/OS reports are highly detailed and specific.

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post #60 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I see. Well I believe there are a thousand fold more web page ads than app ads so I am gauging a different environment for sure. Do Android people just use free apps and never surf the actual web?

No, its just that that metric was just in app adds from that company. Tells us nothing else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I don't know Google Analytics browser/OS reports are highly detailed and specific.

some people are seeing safari for android in analytics, and android devices often use webkit. That could be the issue but I dunno.
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post #61 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

some people are seeing safari for android in analytics, and android devices often use webkit. That could be the issue but I dunno.

Yeah I get those occasionally as well but I attributed it to intentionally modified UA strings on Android devices. Certainly not a widely used option I wouldn't imagine.

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post #62 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

some people are seeing safari for android in analytics, and android devices often use webkit. That could be the issue but I dunno.


Now that you mention it, I think I saw something along those lines posted a few days ago. Good catch Asdasd.

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post #63 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Now that you mention it, I think I saw something along those lines posted a few days ago. Good catch Asdasd.

Yeah I posted it

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post #64 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Yeah I posted it

Well then you already knew.

A quick bit of research shows that Google's stock browser uses webkit, and in Google analytics is reported as Safari. So there's the answer. 100's of thousands (millions?) of Android devices that Google reports as using an Apple browser. You'd think they'd at least get that right.

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post #65 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanie248 View Post

yes, "outselling" !! the FREE product is OUTSELLING !! LOL LOL LOL
Make sure I never hire you : here boss, sales are up 5000% since we started giving it away !


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post #66 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Well then you already knew.

A quick bit of research shows that Google's stock browser uses webkit, and in Google analytics is reported as Safari. So there's the answer.

A wrong answer I'm afraid. I have looked at the raw logs as well. There is a surprising absence of Android OS. It has nothing to do with the browser. We are not seeing the OS.

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post #67 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Who is buying these thousands of Android devices?

Google's business model is selling ads. Android is supposed to put more ads in front of more eyeballs. So where are all these eyeballs? I run several websites with various target market segments and I am not seeing any Android hits in my Analytics reports. I also have a number of associates who also have sites and use Google Analytics. None of us are seeing any 'ADdroid' hits.

On the other hand iOS device page views are through the roof.

Android users haven't figured out the surfing part yet?
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post #68 of 209
4/9/11 at 6:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

But making the statement "overall iOS is outselling Android by a wide margin" may not be true.

I shouldn't have said "outselling"---I meant market share. According to Net Applications iOS currently has almost four times the market share that Android does. I don't actually know which is currently growing faster.
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post #69 of 209
4/9/11 at 7:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NormM View Post

I shouldn't have said "outselling"---I meant market share. According to Net Applications iOS currently has almost four times the market share that Android does. I don't actually know which is currently growing faster.

Thanks for the link. I believe their reports are page views not market share or sales. This confirms my data. Although mine shows a more extreme spread favoring iOS, but since their sample size is much larger, I would assume it is a more accurate average.

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post #70 of 209
4/9/11 at 7:03pm
No problem Norn. figured you might not mean that exactly the way it came out. Nice source by the way. Hadn't seen that one before. Added it to my bookmarks, so thanks!

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post #71 of 209
4/9/11 at 7:06pm
Gartner also predicts that Steve Ballmer will keep his job and earn the other half of that bonus they withheld from his last year.
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post #72 of 209
4/9/11 at 7:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Android users haven't figured out the surfing part yet?

A lot of this huge influx of new Android users just turned in their dumb phones and got from two to six Android phones. They don't surf the web with them any more than they did with their old phones.
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post #73 of 209
4/9/11 at 7:47pm
I think most of these analysts forget the fact that most of Nokia's "smartphone" market share is from their low-end devices which should not be categorized as smartphone to begin with. They put S60 on phones without 3G and GPS and call them smartphone. Nobody wants high-end phones from Nokia. I would say less than 20% of the current Symbian market share may transfer to WP7 or WP8.
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post #74 of 209
4/9/11 at 7:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

... the most salient fact which seem to have him so upset: Android is currently outselling iOS.

Poor Danny.

No, it isn't. The aggregate of all phones running Android may outsell the current model iPhone (US, international?). But both Android and iOS are operating systems. Besides the iPhone there are millions of iPod touch, iPads, and AppleTV's that all also run iOS. Leaving them out of the totals is simply incompetent and/or disengenuous. This entire phase of enhanced capability of mobile OS's was jump started by Apple and iOS continues to grow explosively. Ignoring or denying this reality is simply bizarre.
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post #75 of 209
4/9/11 at 8:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukeskymac View Post

When Apple re-releases the iPhone 3GS as a $200 contract-free smartphone, Android growth will flat-out

If it was just about price.

For more than a few folks, the issue is the conditions of ownership. They don't like being told no, you can't make things look the way you want, no you can't buy apps from where you want, etc. Sure they can jailbreak the iPhone but why bother when you can get an android and have fun

I'm curious to see what happens next now the Google is saying maybe they were too open
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post #76 of 209
4/9/11 at 8:06pm
Not sure how you can "out" sell something that you basically give it away
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post #77 of 209
4/9/11 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

The Digler Rule:

If an analyst revises his claims in ways that favor Apple, he's "gained insight".
But if an analyst revises his claims in ways that are unflattering for Apple, he's "not very accurate".

Danny can play with his spreadsheet all he wants,staying up late to try to find the most alarming-looking charts he can muster from his selective portrayal of the data, but none of his button-pushing can change the most salient fact which seem to have him so upset: Android is currently outselling iOS.

Poor Danny.

Its comical when a troll takes on a name like "macrulez". Seriously, put a sock in it. DED's main focus was how wrong they have been in the past, and how they have been on the take from MSFT. In other words, they are not a credible source. How can one disagree with that?
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post #78 of 209
4/9/11 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenwk View Post

Not sure how you can "out" sell something that you basically give it away

Just like iPhone 3GS.
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post #79 of 209
4/9/11 at 9:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by srathi View Post

Just like iPhone 3GS.

Still haven't owned up to putting my name on a quote that wasn't mine. Still can't answer the question as to how many two-year-old Android phones are selling now, like the iPhone 3GS indubitably is. Same broken-record poststell me, how many rupees per post do outsourced astroturfers get?
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post #80 of 209
4/9/11 at 9:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

Still haven't owned up to putting my name on a quote that wasn't mine. Still can't answer the question as to how many two-year-old Android phones are selling now, like the iPhone 3GS indubitably is. Same broken-record poststell me, how many rupees per post do outsourced astroturfers get?

I've removed your quote long back!

As long as Apple supports 3GS and is sold for free, you really have no argument here. Oh well! you have restored to ad hominem! Typical iFan!
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