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Evidence points toward Apple releasing HDTV this year - report - Page 2

post #41 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by dish View Post

Facetime on the 50" during thanksgiving dinner would be awesome...that would be a great way to get out of visiting annoying relatives. You could just facetime with them the whole day.

Yeah, imagine watching 640 x 480 pixels in all it's splendor on a HDTV...
post #42 of 198
Gene Munster is notoriously inaccurate. As a matter of fact, if Munster says something is likely to happen, it is worth betting against his prediction.

Thus, since Munster says that Apple will produce television sets, Apple will not.

The television set market is relatively low margin, making it even more unlikely that Apple would jump into this sector.
post #43 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Gene Munster is notoriously inaccurate. As a matter of fact, if Munster says something is likely to happen, it is worth betting against his prediction.

Thus, since Munster says that Apple will produce television sets, Apple will not.

The television set market is relatively low margin, making it even more unlikely that Apple would jump into this sector.

So don't listen to Gene, listen to me. Apple will release a TV. Its going to happen. And they're going to turn the TV industry on its ear the same way they blew up the mobile phone market.
post #44 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undo Redo View Post

With a big glossy reflective screen...oh boy!

most TV's have glossy screens. I was limited to 2 brands when I was shopping for mine last year.

I found zero plasma's with a matte screen. only Sony and Samsung make matte (LED/LCD @52")

I find glossy to be superior (for laptops) and glare isn't a huge problem because you can adjust the angle easily on a portable, but for my TV, glossy was a no-go because my living room has 3 5'X5' East facing windows.


back on topic - if AAPL is going to sell a set, there better be something hugely compelling that differentiates them from the others.. $2k for a 50+" screen seems a bit high - there better be something in there that makes it really special. Since apple is (trying to) get others to license AirPlay, that can't be the only thing.

does apple have the mojo to build something similar to GoogleTV but with a better UI, and more content (meaning those sources which blocked GTV?).
post #45 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by bongo View Post

Yeah, imagine watching 640 x 480 pixels in all it's splendor on a HDTV...

post #46 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sofabutt View Post

I am sure it will be as wildly successful as their AppleTV.

Nice sarcasm, smartass. Even if they only sell a million TVs at $1500 each, that's $1.5b in additional revenue.
post #47 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post


does apple have the mojo to build something similar to GoogleTV but with a better UI, and more content (meaning those sources which blocked GTV?).

they've certainly got the mojo, it's just a matter of getting content providers on board. If they offered ala carte access to various networks via an AppStore subscription-like process, they would make a killing. Two or three bucks per channel, per month. That's more than the cable networks currently get from the cable companies (except HBO, etc). Apple could do something quite compelling here, I'm very interested to see what they come up with.
post #48 of 198
Can't Apple just license AirPlay (with video) to TV makers. That way people are encouraged to buy lots more lovely high margin iDevices.

Either that, or continue their partnership with LG. Take whatever panels and receivers LG are making, slap it in an Apple design case and an inbuilt Apple TV. Bundle an Apple remote and job done. Almost zero R&D effort for Apple (Jony Ive could knock up a TV case in an afternoon!), and piggy back of LG's efforts in TV localisation.

Apple could forgo the TV margin on the basis that the TV is all part of the Apple ecosystem so encourages sales of iDevices and Apps (I'm assuming Apple will eventually get around to making an App Store for the Apple TV).

EDIT: A new subs based business model for TV shows would be nice too. But I see that as a benefit for the whole ecosystem, and not predicated on Apple releasing a standalone TV.
post #49 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilM View Post

There are scores of TV manufacturers and prices have been on a constant decline for years as the products become more and more commoditized.

The same was true for smart phones.

Apple already orders the huge amount of LCD for iDevices and Macs. If they add LCDs for TVs to their orders, they can dictate very low prices for LCDs (the most expensive part in TVs).

Apple can add such unique features that other companies would have problem adding:

- 4k resolution: four times HDTV (double horizontal and vertical resolution) = "retina TV". This is would be very epensive for other companies, but Apple can leverage their huge volumes (Macs + TVs). They can also make hardware upressing hdtv -> 4k. They already have cameras in iPhones that make 4k+ pics. Now you have to print them to see the whole resolution. With 4k TVs you would be able to see all details on the large screen - priceless.

- integration with iOS devices, Macs and future Apple online services.
post #50 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichyS View Post

Can't Apple just license AirPlay (with video) to TV makers. That way people are encouraged to buy lots more lovely high margin iDevices.

Either that, or continue their partnership with LG. Take whatever panels and receivers LG are making, slap it in an Apple design case and an inbuilt Apple TV. Bundle an Apple remote and job done. Almost zero R&D effort for Apple (Jony Ive could knock up a TV case in an afternoon!), and piggy back of LG's efforts in TV localisation.

Apple could forgo the TV margin on the basis that the TV is all part of the Apple ecosystem so encourages sales of iDevices and Apps (I'm assuming Apple will eventually get around to making an App Store for the Apple TV).

apple is moving further and further away from being dependent on anybody else for their own success. They will develop and manufacture their own TV set, no partners required.
post #51 of 198
I don't think it will happen but honestly I don't care either way. TVs are boring, even ones made by Apple.

The only reason I can see for going the whole hog is that they want a camera in the correct position, for FaceTime or some sort of Kinect thing.

Or... it's related to the new server farm and streaming video. For copy protection reasons the studios will only give them 1080p if the TV is an integrated unit, and therefore somehow less hackable.

I dunno, it's all just speculamation.
post #52 of 198
**nm**
post #53 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

5 remotes (even a universal remote), clunky interfaces, way to much crap wires and boxes, poor design in general, complex setup and UI, complicated remotes, no content built-in. Etc. Etc. The TV business is in as bad shape as phones were before Apple came along. Not to mention, Apple as well as anyone knows if they don't do this someone else will come along and do it instead if them. And eat their lunch in the process.

Agreed. But I think the difference in this being a new TV on the market with a few interesting features -- FaceTime, AirPlay, TV-specific apps, easy interaction with other Apple devices -- and being a game changer is whether Apple can convince Comcast/NBCU and the other networks that providing currently airing content for a primarily subscription-based package is the way to go.

Apple has to convince Comcast/NBCU that the package would replace 100% of their current per-subscriber revenue and give them a revenue upside for specialty apps and premium content.
post #54 of 198
I don't know about that idea. The HDTV market is already beyond saturated. It would make no sense for Apple to compete in the current HDTV market, and the current definition of "smart TV" won't help any. Apple would have to re-define what an HDTV is, just like they re-defined what a cell phone is.

Here's some ideas, and I'm not sure if this would be enough to tackle the HDTV market:

1. Yes, it would have to be "smart". Basically it would need to have an integrated computer - ARM platform running iOS, and tie into the whole iTunes ecosystem.

2. The "remote" would be an iPad, iPod, or iPhone, sold separately of course. The included 'Apple remote' would handle basic functions for those odd people who don't already own an iDevice.

3. The screens would need to be 2k resolution. Everyone and their dog does HD, Apple would have to up the ante.

4. Two models - a ~45" and a ~65" model. The ~50" size is a waste of time.

5. Apple's TV would need to utilize the iDevice interface to also control the rest of the components of someone's entertainment system (surround sound, dvd player, etc.) finally putting to rest the sea lost remote controls. Use that iDevice interface to the max!
post #55 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

apple is moving further and further away from being dependent on anybody else for their own success. They will develop and manufacture their own TV set, no partners required.

Licensing AirPlay with video to TV makers is really no different to licensing the 30-pin connector for the myriad of dock makers. Or indeed, any of the other 'Made for iPod/iPhone' kit out there. The fact that 95% (stat pulled from my arse) of all docks, cases, cars, etc. only really work with iPods is part of the reason the iPod commands such market dominance.

As long as the AirPlay experience is good (and why wouldn't it be -- it's essentially initiated by the iDevice); licensing it will only help Apple sell more hardware.
post #56 of 198
Here's hoping that Apple will launch a line of HDTVs. You know they will be awesome. Steve Jobs wouldn't have it any other way.
post #57 of 198
I've never owned a tv. Plenty monitors and a projector though.

It is hard to say why they would bother. Phone sure, apple had to damage the iPod market cause someone else would have. Tablet sure, it is the -personal- computer.

As others have said, the AppleTV takes over any TV it gets plugged into. Making it better only does it more so. Making a TV... they would need to enter under the market not above it to be disruptive.

Post PC... well if they made a really smart monitor sized device that was the desk bound variant of the iPad, a sub mac if you will, not a 50" behemoth more a 17 - 24 inch unit that used a keyboard and it had a unique method of multitasking media. Something aimed at school/dorm/2nd tv in the house. It let's you connect media input devices to it, players/set tops/consoles. So it busts up the smaller TV market, demoralizes the chrome OS potential market, defends the demise of the mac desktop and attacks the cheapo windows $500 boxes.

Such a device could see broad use. The Apple TV becomes the uber cheap BYO mac mini version, the iPad the macbook version and this other thing the iMac version. With their purchasing power in screens they could really crunch the price and leveraging the A5 across iPod, iPhone, iPad, AppleTV and this thing would allow them an unmatched economy of scale.

Now perhaps that is something they would do. 50" multi thousand dollar TV's in a volatile format war (3d variants etc) with a muddle of standards to support and a slow re-purchase cycle I highly doubt.

This thing will range from $599 to $999.

The macs will stay as the production/performance devices with the iOS devices as the personal/affordable range. The 2nd cycle would be complete.

The analysts will be all blown away like the rumor mill of the $999 iPad. Now it will be the $2000 tv rumor that isn't that wipes another sector away.
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post #58 of 198
Don't see the point. The ATV is cheap and tiny enough to hide in an hdtv setup or at least not stand out.

The hdtv market is low margin.

What can Apple really add to a tv setup that the ATV doesn't or the hdtv manufacturers do not?

Aluminum frame? Tiny aluminum remote with too few buttons?

If Apple makes a TV then they've jumped the shark.
post #59 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

Their TV won't have a camera.

Well definately not the first iteration. The second will have a VGA camera, then the next 720... then the next... well you get the picture(hey a pun)
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post #60 of 198
"They" said Apple would fail.

"They" said the iPod would fail.

"They" said the iPhone would fail.

"They" said the retail stores were a stupid idea and would fail.

"They" said the iPad would be an epic fail.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see an Apple HDTV that's basically an iOS device with a really big screen and a digital tuner. And when it shows up it will also be declared DOA. After it takes off wildly we will then be treated to Android HDTVs by Asus, Acer, HTC, and all the other copycat followers only theirs will be "better" because they're open and run Android. A year later Microsoft will annouce a WM7 HDTV. The tech pundits will be predicting Apple HDTV killers are just around the corner.
post #61 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

Nice sarcasm, smartass. Even if they only sell a million TVs at $1500 each, that's $1.5b in additional revenue.

At what profit margin?
post #62 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by RichyS View Post

Licensing AirPlay with video to TV makers is really no different to licensing the 30-pin connector for the myriad of dock makers. Or indeed, any of the other 'Made for iPod/iPhone' kit out there. The fact that 95% (stat pulled from my arse) of all docks, cases, cars, etc. only really work with iPods is part of the reason the iPod commands such market dominance.

As long as the AirPlay experience is good (and why wouldn't it be -- it's essentially initiated by the iDevice); licensing it will only help Apple sell more hardware.

i was responding more to the idea of apple partnering with LG to produce the TVs.
post #63 of 198
The biggest problem with the TV idea is where Apple is going to sell these. TVs take up a LOT of space. Apple has extremely limited space in their stores. Are they going to devote these to iPads, iPhones, iPods and Macs, which don't take up much space, or TVs, which do and don't have tremendous margins either...
post #64 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by cy_starkman View Post


Making a TV... they would need to enter under the market not above it to be disruptive.

i'm quite sure they managed to disrupt the cell phone market with a $600 no-subsidy product.
post #65 of 198
Actually I revise my pricing bracket.

It will start at $299 and go upto $599. Or maybe $399 to $699

won't need batteries.
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post #66 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlivierL View Post

THIS IS STUPID.

Apple is ALREADY making TV Sets : this is called a HDMI TV + Apple TV.
It comes in all size, color, shape and technology. It's only $99 more than any existing TV set sold and any HDMI TV can be upgraded for the same $99.

And if the hardware is upgraded in 2 years, it will cost only $99 to upgrade to the new version.
And your $1000 display panel won't be "obsolete" in 2 years.

Finally, somebody gets it.

AppleInsider should relegate anything Gene Munster says about Apple going into the TV making business to a separate website. The idea simply does not make sense.
post #67 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

The biggest problem with the TV idea is where Apple is going to sell these. TVs take up a LOT of space. Apple has extremely limited space in their stores. Are they going to devote these to iPads, iPhones, iPods and Macs, which don't take up much space, or TVs, which do and don't have tremendous margins either...

Cuthroat TVs with no distinguishing features (aka, everything at best buy) are low margin. Apple creates value with their superior UI and industrial design. Any TV they make will have proper margins, or else they won't make it.

As for retail space, how many TVs do they need to have on display in their stores? It's not like an iPad where every customer needs to play with it in their hands. They already have at least one in each store to display the current Apple TV. Also, they're moving away from in-store physical software sales, in order to free up space.

They have the boutique areas in most Best Buys, as well.
post #68 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorre View Post

I don't buy it, and I never will. Even if Apple does release a TV, I would consider it a really stupid move.

Face it, a TV is nowadays nothing more than a dumb screen. It's the things you connect to your TV that make it an awesome device. Your cable settop box, your BluRay player, your XBox 360. That's what makes people like sitting in front of the TV. The TV itself is a dumb commodity product.

So in stead of making a TV, I think Apple should make a device that connects to your TV. Something that allows you to watch all your cool iTunes content on that big screen in your living room. It would be cool if this little box would also allow AirPlay streaming and.. oh wait... I guess they already sell one of these little boxes.

So yeah, all Apple needs to do is make the Apple TV as attractive as possible by adding cool new revolutionary features to it. It's only 99 bucks and people can connect it either a $250 WallMart piece of junk, or a $4000 high end Sony TV.

There is absolutely ZERO reason why Apple would actually make a TV set. I challenge you to give me one.


+1. The issues TV has today is the crippled nature of the content. Great, IOS directly built into the TV. What does that do for you besides lock you into obsolete hardware? TV's are a commodity market...there is no money to make there.

The money is in the services/content you can offer via that big screen. Which is something Apple already has in Apple TV...which works on all TVs and is cheap enough people will upgrade every couple of years. This allows expanded experiences due to improved hardware.
post #69 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by milkmage View Post

most TV's have glossy screens. I was limited to 2 brands when I was shopping for mine last year.

I found zero plasma's with a matte screen. only Sony and Samsung make matte (LED/LCD @52")

Wow! I haven't looked at TVs in stores for a while. Seems I'll have to stick with my 37" matte LG HDTV forever, if this is the trend.
post #70 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by xsu View Post

At what profit margin?

Find me an HDTV from any manufacturer, and Apple could sell the same size TV for at least $100-200 more. It's called brand loyalty, and providing value for the money spent (better UI, more content, better integration with iDevices, better aesthetic design, etc). Of course, the haters and nay-sayers will merely point at the screen size and compare it to Vizio, thereby calling the Apple product needlessly overpriced. So be it.
post #71 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregAlexander View Post

Apple may have no choice.

Agreed. They don't have a choice. In 15 years Apple will even make refrigerators.
Do you guys remember that interview with Steve Jobs and Bill Gates in 2007?
Steve said that "there will be a computer in everything" in the future. In every devices.
So if that will be the case, then Apple has all the reasons in the world to build them.
post #72 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1ex View Post

Don't see the point. The ATV is cheap and tiny enough to hide in an hdtv setup or at least not stand out.

The hdtv market is low margin.

What can Apple really add to a tv setup that the ATV doesn't or the hdtv manufacturers do not?

Aluminum frame? Tiny aluminum remote with too few buttons?

If Apple makes a TV then they've jumped the shark.

IMO - I agree, I don't see it, but Im not the CEO of Apple either.

Just some counter thoughts of things they could do...
  • Super duper cinema display. Use that fancy thunderbolt interface to display some extremely high def games or something. Alternate reality distortion field, er.. screen.
  • Theres talk of the next level beyond 1080p... thats way out there though.
  • Perhaps lending their name/design influance to LG etc and take a small cut. But that would just be window dressing stuff... hasn't been their style lately.
Otherwise Im with the doggle crowd... Just hook up an ATV... do not build into the set.
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post #73 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Unicron View Post

Is it going to be LED LCD or Plasma?

If it's not plasma count me out.
post #74 of 198
AppleTV as we know it today is merely a stop-gap before the full HDTV. Apple is a "consumer electronics company" nowadays, they said it themselves. The release of the full-size AppleTV is when it shifts from "hobby" to "major device segment" along with iPads, iPhones, and macs.
post #75 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

With high-end 50" HDTV's, including embedded webapps and internet connectivity, advertised for $1200-$1400 nearly every weekend, $2000 for an Apple-branded TV would be a really tough sell IMHO. Having a hi-profile fail would reflect on Apple's other upcoming products more poorly than than some comparatively insignificant addition to the bottom line would benefit them. Personally I don't see a great upside to it.


You sound like that genius Steve Ballmer when the Iphone came out. "who is going to buy a $650 phone"
post #76 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland View Post

5 remotes (even a universal remote), clunky interfaces, way to much crap wires and boxes, poor design in general, complex setup and UI, complicated remotes, no content built-in. Etc. Etc. The TV business is in as bad shape as phones were before Apple came along. Not to mention, Apple as well as anyone knows if they don't do this someone else will come along and do it instead if them. And eat their lunch in the process.

Steve Jobs isnt the second coming of RoboChrist. Apple cant just walk in and make a market work. They didnt do it with the first AppleTV (even though it was likely the best selling and most profitable wireless media appliance) or their HiFi.

YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SOLID PLAN GOING IN which is something Ive seen no one make a well rounded prediction on. The iPhone was a natural fit. The PMP market was plateauing. We didnt know if Apple could make it work or to what extend theyd invest in the idea, but we knew that it was inevitable.

With an HDTV there are too many holes and too many people unwilling to look at the big picture. For instance, if the point of the an Apple made HDTV is to reduce the number of remote controls down to one then its failed as stated since it only integrates the AppleTV and HDTV. You still need your DVR and/or cable/sat box with its controller. For many with these devices the TV has long since become a dumb monitor, not something you need to fiddle with often. You can turn it on and off from your DVR or cable/sat remote just from the power-passthrough on that appliance.

So would it have a cable card built in to accommodate this with ports for some peripherals and storage off the HDTV using Thunderbolt? If that is the case then why wouldnt Apple offer a cable card option on their AppleTV so the TV can continue to be a dumb terminal, so the price can still be low and achievable while still being profitable, and so they can market it to anyone and everyone who already has a TV, not a huge, multi-thousand dollar device with low margins that has to replace your existing TV. You said the TV business is hurting, but they hurting because they cant get people to replace TVs often, not because they can.

And then what happens to the internal AppleTV hardware when they release an SDK and App Store. Your AppleTV apps running on the A4 are no longer as good as running on the A5 next year or A6 the following year. Or how about the A8 and were still not ready for a new multi-thousand dollar purchase just to be able to play the latest games on your TV.

Now consider this. Apple instead decided to update their AppleTV each year or so with the newest processor, alongside an SDK and App Store so they 1) get you to buy a new AppleTV every year or two, and 2) get you buy games and apps. They now have an ecosystem extension that helps lock in future buyers that have used their iOS-based iDevices. They can finally release the FaceTime protocol that will put camera in any vendors TVs, and they can eventually get Thunderbolt as the connection for the future TVs that will allow data video to be transmitted at once over a single wire.

If we really look at Apples focus its not the multi-thousand dollar Mac Pro or the multi-thousand dollar Xserve. Its the cheaper items they excel at making that people love to buy and use and that are make up the majority of their revenue of their profits.

The problem is fixing the way we get channels to our TV, but thinking the monitor you look at is the problem simply because its what you look at it is not fixing the problem, its adding to it. Even in this thread there is mention of plasma, LCD, 47, 50, 52, 45, 65, et al. There are just too many options that appeal to different needs. With the iPhone it would be nice if it had a larger display, but TVs arent bought that way. Oh, and I need a 20 for my den and a 32 for my guest bedroom, and 14 for my bathroom. can you see Apple offering 18 SKUs the way they do for the iPad? I cant when all those iPads fill up a 20th of the space used by one TV.
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post #77 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by zindako View Post

Has to be the worst article in a while, Apple will never make a television set.

Maybe you're being sarcastic and I just don't get it but... I ask why not? They've done it before... the Macintosh TV back in 1995.
post #78 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The problem is fixing the way we get channels to our TV, but thinking the monitor you look at is the problem simply because its what you look at it is not fixing the problem, its adding to it.

You are absolutely right, however you're missing the point. AppleTV doesn't exit "hobby" stage UNTIL they have the content deals in place. Then it's gametime. And yes, they will absolutely build an HDTV.
post #79 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleStud View Post

You are absolutely right, however you're missing the point. AppleTV doesn't exit "hobby" stage UNTIL they have the content deals in place. Then it's gametime. And yes, they will absolutely build an HDTV.

That’s at least something new besides “Apple will make a TV and it’ll be the most awesomest thing ever”-like comments, but fails to address 1) how this will happen, 2) how you would then access cable/sat and/or DVR or if these are now non-entities moving forward, and 3) why do these deals have to be added to an HDTV and can’t be added to a much cheaper AppleTV that Apple can update annually and be usable on their current TVs?

PS: I’m not in any way against Apple making a TV what I’m against is desire getting in the way of any logical or rational reasons as to why Apple would make a TV. Not liking some other brand name for electronics in your HEC is a not valid reason! Thinking Apple can do anything because they are Apple is not a valid reason! Thinking that it would impress your friends is not a valid reason!
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post #80 of 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by hiker275 View Post

...but... I ask why not? They've done it before... the Macintosh TV back in 1995.

That isn’t the best argument to make.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macintosh_TV
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