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Apple hit with class-action suit over iPhone in-app game currency purchases - Page 3

post #81 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SSquirrel View Post

Bullshit. I have 2 girls that are 3 and 5 1/2. The 3 year old may be too young to understand, but my oldest knows that if she is playing w/the iPad and there is something she wants, she has to ask us. She knows she isn't allowed to buy anything herself, in or out of game. Not explaining and enforcing rules on your children does not explain the need for a class action lawsuit. Some people need to take some fucking personal responsibility.

Bullshit right back atcha, mr Perfect. Speak when your kids are close to or just past double digits. I never said it justified a lawsuit - I said as a parent myself I had grown out of coming across all high and fucking mighty. But I'm glad your kids are little tow-the-line angels, mine are anything but. Like I am sure I did when I was their age, they frequently drive their parents to distraction being, you know, fucking kids.
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post #82 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Kids can run up a large phone bill even more easily. Do parents sue the phone companies?

I remember many many years ago hearing my parents talking downstairs.

Dad: "Who's calling State College, PA so many times?"
Mom: "What's the number?"
Dad: "1-234-5678"
Mom: "DAVID!!!???"

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post #83 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

Yes. Yes I do. Plus I'm "tech savvy" which is all the more reason why I would never give my kids a password that protects my credit card because I know the consequences. That's one of the problems with this country these days, parents don't have time to be parents. They just say "go sit in front of <insert some tech or activity> and stop bothering me".

Really? That's one of the problems with this country? I do have time to parent and love my kids above and beyond but I have no problem admitting they can and frequently do drive me nuts. I am tech savvy. My kids have access to my password. My kids can borrow my laptop any time and they know the password. My kids do not buy without asking (they have done once or twice and I told them never to do so again). But my kids are no angels. Which just to show we all have different parenting styles. What I do know is if anyone claims to have all the answers they don't have kids.
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post #84 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:24pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

why are parents giving their kids a password that is tied to a credit card? You can't sue another company for your having such poor parenting skills. My kids have to come to me to make an app store purchase with my credit card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radjin View Post

Maybe a parent should take a little responsibility with what their young children are doing? I don't just turn my child lose with a net connected device without taking precautions. Any net connected device. Kids will be kids, and they will explore every opportunity that exist. It's a good thing, they are sponges soaking up every experience. As parents we must be ever diligent that they do not get into trouble. I wonder if these same parents allow their young children to explore unattended the under sink storage as well, you know, where the poisons are kept?

Quote:
Originally Posted by msantti View Post

Bad parenting now necessitates class action lawsuits.

I am suing because I cannot control my kids.

This exact issue has happened to me. It had nothing to do with "bad parenting". My 7 year old does not have my password. He came up to me to ask me to install a free game. Pretty sure it was City Story or something like that. My son turned away as I input my password. I handed him the iPod when I was done. He waited for it to finish downloading. He then began playing it. A week or two later I get several invoice/receipts from Apple, showing multiple In-App purchases amounting to more than $40. I contacted Apple and they refunded the first purchase which was $4.99. The rest they said they would not reimburse. I demanded to know how this "free" app was charging me. It had nothing to do with my son knowing my password, which he did not. It was because after I put in the iTunes password to download the "free" app, there is a window of 15 minutes where no password is need for purchases. We did not know this and my son was pushing the buttons in the game. He had no idea he was actually spending real money.

Nothing to do with bad parenting.
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post #85 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:28pm
All of you going on about bad parenting are misreading this whole thing. He did not give his password to the child. It has nothing to do with parenting at all. It was a design flaw that Apple later recognized and addressed in an update

Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


The lawsuit notes that Apple has since addressed the issue by requiring a password for in-app purchases. Previously, once users entered their password to download an application, iOS offered a 15-minute window during which additional purchases could be made without entering the password.
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post #86 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by q2h View Post

Far be it from me to suggest Americans have and more of their rights taken away from them, but at this point, would it really be such a bad idea to require a license to be a parent? You know, like a marriage license is required to get married.. Only, the parent license will test you to make sure you're not just flooding the population with another mouth-breathing moron that'll screw up the system for the rest of us?

Seriously though.. If you don't take the time to understand that giving a child an adults device without using or even looking into parental controls could have undesired effects then it's your own fault. Suing Apple is a short term solution to a long term problem; bad parenting. Educate yourself before you go giving your kids a device that you have no idea what it's capable of.

It is the morons misunderstanding the issue that are the problem
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post #87 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

Only because you tell them they have to ask you. (good kids).
However, if they have the password, the only thing that stops them from making purchases is their conscience.

Well - that and the wrath of their father
Quote:
Really? They download that many apps?

You have no idea
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So even you are not positive?

I scan every itunes receipt and by now I trust my kids. But I'm honest - I would never put it past them to claim they 'accidentally' purchased something. If they have a gift card I put it in and as the bad dad I clearly am I don't hesitate using a credit or two for my own purchases - so it all evens out.
Quote:
Why not simply give them their own iTunes account with no credit card linked?
They can get all the free apps they want but with no CC linked, even accidental in-app purchases could not be made.

Like I mentioned earlier - if you all share one account you are allowed to download several copies of an app. Say one of them buys the Sims and makes a deal with the other one they pay half. If my wife and I like it too, we all pay a quarter. Ditto music, though there is less overlap there.

Ideally - and this would perhaps increase mobileme take-up, apple would let all members of a family account share purchases but using different passwords.
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post #88 of 127
4/15/11 at 12:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

why are parents giving their kids a password that is tied to a credit card? You can't sue another company for your having such poor parenting skills. My kids have to come to me to make an app store purchase with my credit card.

With my daughter for her iPhone, she doesn't have access to a credit card *at all*. She has her own account which she fills using iTunes Store prepaid cards. Oh, and the "they use my computer" reason isn't an excuse - just create a different user, whether MacOS or Microsoft Windows

Oh, and yes, the phone companies make it really easy to rack up big bills. For all of those who hate AT&T, they do have a service to upgrade your service to plans which would cover the increased usage.

Oh, and MMS messages are now separate from SMS messages now on the cheapest plans. Found that out after I sent a couple of contacts from my iPhone to the Windows Phone 6.5 phone I got in January, $0.30 a pop... The 1000 message plan includes MMS with SMS, although my iPhones were grandfathered in.
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post #89 of 127
4/15/11 at 1:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I agree on all points. The false argument a game is 'free' when it has costs built in once bought is the key to this I think.

Those games should not be included in the free games section. Apple could easily make a definition of a 'free' game or app that stated it may contain ads but no in app sales. Even an upgrade from a light to a full version should not be from within a 'free app' rather an ad would state it has to be 'purchased from the non-free section.

Those apps or games that use the business model 'give it for free' and 'make the money from add ons' is perfectly legitimate but it should not masquerade as free, especially when targeted at kids.

Having said that parents still need to take responsibility here and not resort to suing Apple.

When checking the game your child is downloading (unless you don't care) it is quite easy to see "Most Popular in App Purchases", which indicates a game has in App purchases, maybe the person responsible for the credit card should check before handing out the password that gives access to their money.

In the early nineties console games came with helplines that were premium numbers with a disclaimer advising to ask for the account holders permission before calling, as far as I know Sega never had to face a class action over phone bills run up by children.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #90 of 127
4/15/11 at 1:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by alandail View Post

why are parents giving their kids a password that is tied to a credit card? You can't sue another company for your having such poor parenting skills. My kids have to come to me to make an app store purchase with my credit card.

I think you're being a little short sighted and offensive by attributing this issue to bad parenting.
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post #91 of 127
4/15/11 at 1:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

The App Store is "not safe"? How exactly is that? At least with Apple, I know who I'm buying from unlike Amazon where sometimes it's through them (so I get free shipping) and sometimes it's not and hope the 3rd party is reputable.

No, you can tell who is selling it. You might miss it if you're not paying attention, but it's not hidden. Below the price:

"In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com."

"In Stock.
Ships from and sold by (third party name here)."

There is a similar line if it's fulfilled by Amazon.

If it's not fulfilled by Amazon, you'll also see the "ships from and sold by" line right above the "add to cart" button on the product description page.
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post #92 of 127
4/15/11 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

This exact issue has happened to me. It had nothing to do with "bad parenting". My 7 year old does not have my password. He came up to me to ask me to install a free game. Pretty sure it was City Story or something like that. My son turned away as I input my password. I handed him the iPod when I was done. He waited for it to finish downloading. He then began playing it. A week or two later I get several invoice/receipts from Apple, showing multiple In-App purchases amounting to more than $40. I contacted Apple and they refunded the first purchase which was $4.99. The rest they said they would not reimburse. I demanded to know how this "free" app was charging me. It had nothing to do with my son knowing my password, which he did not. It was because after I put in the iTunes password to download the "free" app, there is a window of 15 minutes where no password is need for purchases. We did not know this and my son was pushing the buttons in the game. He had no idea he was actually spending real money.

Nothing to do with bad parenting.

So how did he make the later purchases???

...hmmm?

Anything I give to kids is linked to a prepaid iTunes card, just like cellphones, prepaid.

What that did was taught them the value of money, they learnt how to live within limits.

Something a lot of people could use a lesson in.

"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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"The cobbler's children have no shoes", is a saying that applies a lot to companies who provide products and services. -KDarling on Google Search.

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post #93 of 127
4/15/11 at 1:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

All of you going on about bad parenting are misreading this whole thing. He did not give his password to the child. It has nothing to do with parenting at all. It was a design flaw that Apple later recognized and addressed in an update

You stopped reading the rest apparently...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple Insider

"Because the passwords now required for purchases of Game Currency are the same passwords required for any Apple purchase, minors aware of such password may purchase Game Currency without authorization from their parents for that purchase," the lawsuit reads.

Again, not only are In App purchases password protected but you can also use the built-in parental restrictions to disable the purchases whether they know the password or not.
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post #94 of 127
4/15/11 at 1:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

No, you can tell who is selling it. You might miss it if you're not paying attention, but it's not hidden. Below the price:

"In Stock.
Ships from and sold by Amazon.com."

"In Stock.
Ships from and sold by (third party name here)."

There is a similar line if it's fulfilled by Amazon.

If it's not fulfilled by Amazon, you'll also see the "ships from and sold by" line right above the "add to cart" button on the product description page.

Never said it was hidden. I said I didn't "know" who was selling it. I have no idea who <insert 3rd party> is.
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post #95 of 127
4/15/11 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

You stopped reading the rest apparently....

and the immediately prior paragraph which reads:

But Meguerian believes that Apple's previous policy allowed the company to "pocket millions of dollars" from unauthorized transactions. And even the revised password policy found in iOS 4.3 isn't enough, he argued.

Sounds to me like he's suing over past behavior and the perceived inadequate response.

Either way, something like this I would just take on the chin and move on. And it would appear that many people posting about poor parenting skills probably don't have children themselves. Not everyone who has has these ithings bothers to spend the time reading all the t&cs, or to endlessly argue the merits of the shape of the battery indicator in an os update. The vast majority of people have never even heard of apple insider, so you can't expect every iOS user to have your knowledge of the device and all its options know.

I certainly don't consider myself a luddite but today I learned you can turn off in app purchases. But neither do I give my password to my kids.
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post #96 of 127
4/15/11 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

Never said it was hidden. I said I didn't "know" who was selling it. I have no idea who <insert 3rd party> is.

OK, I had the impression that it was about not knowing whether an item wasn't being sold by Amazon. At least it's relatively easy to avoid buying from third parties. I usually either check their reputation or look elsewhere.
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post #97 of 127
4/15/11 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

Never said it was hidden. I said I didn't "know" who was selling it. I have no idea who <insert 3rd party> is.

OK, I had the impression that it was about not knowing whether an item wasn't being sold by Amazon. At least it's relatively easy to avoid buying from third parties. I usually either check their reputation or look elsewhere. I've heard Amazon's conflict resolution system is good, but I haven't needed it.
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post #98 of 127
4/15/11 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

and the immediately prior paragraph which reads:

But Meguerian believes that Apple's previous policy allowed the company to "pocket millions of dollars" from unauthorized transactions. And even the revised password policy found in iOS 4.3 isn't enough, he argued.

Sounds to me like he's suing over past behavior and the perceived inadequate response.

Either way, something like this I would just take on the chin and move on. And it would appear that many people posting about poor parenting skills probably don't have children themselves. Not everyone who has has these ithings bothers to spend the time reading all the t&cs, or to endlessly argue the merits of the shape of the battery indicator in an os update. The vast majority of people have never even heard of apple insider, so you can't expect every iOS user to have your knowledge of the device and all its options know.

I certainly don't consider myself a luddite but today I learned you can turn off in app purchases. But neither do I give my password to my kids.


And that's where this lawsuit gets harder to defend.

1. Plaintiff knowingly gave iTunes password to minors.
2. Apple implemented a requirement to input password for each In App purchase.
3. Apple implemented parental controls to completely disable In App purchases.
4. Apple placed a banner at the top of each App that allows purchases called "Top In App Purchases".
5. Plaintiff is guessing that Apple has made millions (Apple only gets 30%) by assuming other parents were as negligent.

I'm sorry but the guy who tried to slap Apple with a class-action for his iPad overheating after leaving it in the hot sun had a better chance of winning...and he didn't. So this moron is spending how much to reclaim $200?
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post #99 of 127
4/15/11 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

It is the morons misunderstanding the issue that are the problem

Are you really implying that one has nothing to do with the other and calling me a moron? If so, you're either a victim yourself, or a victim sympathizer.. and by victim, I mean moron.
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post #100 of 127
4/15/11 at 3:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

This exact issue has happened to me. It had nothing to do with "bad parenting". My 7 year old does not have my password. He came up to me to ask me to install a free game. Pretty sure it was City Story or something like that. My son turned away as I input my password. I handed him the iPod when I was done. He waited for it to finish downloading. He then began playing it. A week or two later I get several invoice/receipts from Apple, showing multiple In-App purchases amounting to more than $40. I contacted Apple and they refunded the first purchase which was $4.99. The rest they said they would not reimburse. I demanded to know how this "free" app was charging me. It had nothing to do with my son knowing my password, which he did not. It was because after I put in the iTunes password to download the "free" app, there is a window of 15 minutes where no password is need for purchases. We did not know this and my son was pushing the buttons in the game. He had no idea he was actually spending real money.

Nothing to do with bad parenting.

your situation can't happen anymore. Apple changed the way it works because people were having your problem. Now you have to sign in again to make an in app purchase. Which is what the lawsuit is about. Parents gave their children their password, the children used that password. Somehow this parent thinks they should blame Apple.
http://www.inktastic.com/
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http://www.inktastic.com/
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post #101 of 127
4/15/11 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by techno View Post

This exact issue has happened to me. It had nothing to do with "bad parenting". My 7 year old does not have my password. He came up to me to ask me to install a free game. Pretty sure it was City Story or something like that. My son turned away as I input my password. I handed him the iPod when I was done. He waited for it to finish downloading. He then began playing it. A week or two later I get several invoice/receipts from Apple, showing multiple In-App purchases amounting to more than $40. I contacted Apple and they refunded the first purchase which was $4.99. The rest they said they would not reimburse. I demanded to know how this "free" app was charging me. It had nothing to do with my son knowing my password, which he did not. It was because after I put in the iTunes password to download the "free" app, there is a window of 15 minutes where no password is need for purchases. We did not know this and my son was pushing the buttons in the game. He had no idea he was actually spending real money.

Nothing to do with bad parenting.

I was lucky enough to find out about the 15 minute rule on password authentication before my kids made any in app purchases. The only reason I knew about the "feature" was that I frequent sites like this one. As soon as I read about it I disabled in app purchases on all 6 of our iOS devices. I think my not getting charged by my 5 year old randomly clicking on buttons just after I downloaded a kids game was just luck. Up to my reading articles on Apple rumor and fan sites I had assumed that my kids would be prompted for a password each time. Before I knew about the 15 rule I had no reason to completely disable in app purchases because I thought my children would be prompted for authentication.
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post #102 of 127
4/15/11 at 3:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

And that's where this lawsuit gets harder to defend.

1. Plaintiff knowingly gave iTunes password to minors.
2. Apple implemented a requirement to input password for each In App purchase.
3. Apple implemented parental controls to completely disable In App purchases.
4. Apple placed a banner at the top of each App that allows purchases called "Top In App Purchases".
5. Plaintiff is guessing that Apple has made millions (Apple only gets 30%) by assuming other parents were as negligent.

I'm sorry but the guy who tried to slap Apple with a class-action for his iPad overheating after leaving it in the hot sun had a better chance of winning...and he didn't. So this moron is spending how much to reclaim $200?

You don't have to be sorry to me. I'm just pointing out (without the benefit of the primary document) that the action appears to be based not on the 'same password' allegation, but on the prior 'time out' policy.

The situation as it stands now is not to the point, as far as I can tell. The cause of action arose in a different context, when the 'time out' policy was in effect. The fact that Apple has mitigated the effect by forcing password reentry is nice, but that scheme was not present at the time of the incident. Again, going from the article, and not wanting to explore endless timelines of os/itunes updates to correlate.

Like I said before, I'd be inclined to take the charge on the chin and teach my kids about it - and trust, but to each their own. I doubt this will be successful.
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post #103 of 127
4/15/11 at 3:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I'm a parent. I never thought to even look, so thanks for the heads up. But as a parent I do have sympathy. I used not to but after a short while of parenthood I stopped blaming parents. The reality of parenthood is much different from the inside than the outside. My guess is that most parents, even tech savvy ones, would say, "The password is 'xyz'. Now get out of my hair", followed by "Only free apps, OK?", never even thinking there might be anything like in-app purchases. Not saying it warrants a class action lawsuit but all you people coming down hard on parents - do you have kids?

If you give your child the 'zyz' password without knowing for certain what that can entail then you are a fool. I trust my kids but would never give them my password because kids are just that 'kids' and can't always be counted on to make the proper decision(s) in unknown situations where adult experience(s) and common sense are required.
Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools."
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post #104 of 127
4/15/11 at 4:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Celemourn View Post

in app purchases are just a bad bad, evil idea. f*** zynga and all imitators.

In-app purchases themselves are not a bad idea, but any game targeted at minors, like the Smurf game, should absolutely be rejected if they include in-app purchase mechanisms.

$59 for a basket of 1000 Smurfberries? Are you fanbois agreeing that this was a great idea? Are you implying that the app developers figured a parent would okay such a purchase?

No. The Smurfberries and the other examples given are a blatant means for literally stealing money by tricking children into using their parents' credit cards.

Can anyone here present a remotely believable scenario where this is not the case? I bet you can't.

How about this: Age-rate the games and say, "No in-app purchases for games rated Under 13". Is that so tough?

Apple did virtually nothing to address this. They paid lip service, and that's it. If they expect parents to use parental controls, then classify apps so that they can be controlled, and create a place where children can play safely.

If you'd all get your Apple-lovin' heads out of Jobs' butt long enough for a breath of fresh air, you'd realize that mocking parents does nothing to solve this issue. Apple needs to become a responsible member of the global community and move away from the selfishness that has characterized its entire existence.
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post #105 of 127
4/15/11 at 5:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidscript View Post


Apple did virtually nothing to address this. They paid lip service, and that's it. If they expect parents to use parental controls, then classify apps so that they can be controlled, and create a place where children can play safely.

If you'd all get your Apple-lovin' heads out of Jobs' butt long enough for a breath of fresh air, you'd realize that mocking parents does nothing to solve this issue. Apple needs to become a responsible member of the global community and move away from the selfishness that has characterized its entire existence.


Why can't we take responsibility for our own actions, monitor our own children and stop asking the government and companies to "protect" us. Is it always about passing the buck and not owning up? Use your brain and stop having the need for others to think for you. You need to be just as responsible as Apple does. Jeeze.

Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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Why does Apple bashing and trolling make people feel so good?

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post #106 of 127
4/15/11 at 6:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidscript View Post

In-app purchases themselves are not a bad idea, but any game targeted at minors, like the Smurf game, should absolutely be rejected if they include in-app purchase mechanisms.

$59 for a basket of 1000 Smurfberries? Are you fanbois agreeing that this was a great idea? Are you implying that the app developers figured a parent would okay such a purchase?

No. The Smurfberries and the other examples given are a blatant means for literally stealing money by tricking children into using their parents' credit cards.

Can anyone here present a remotely believable scenario where this is not the case? I bet you can't.

How about this: Age-rate the games and say, "No in-app purchases for games rated Under 13". Is that so tough?

Apple did virtually nothing to address this. They paid lip service, and that's it. If they expect parents to use parental controls, then classify apps so that they can be controlled, and create a place where children can play safely.

If you'd all get your Apple-lovin' heads out of Jobs' butt long enough for a breath of fresh air, you'd realize that mocking parents does nothing to solve this issue. Apple needs to become a responsible member of the global community and move away from the selfishness that has characterized its entire existence.

After reading this I realize the irony of your screen name.
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post #107 of 127
4/15/11 at 7:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb510 View Post

You seem to be the only commenter in this thread capable of reading comprehension. +1 to you for recognizing the 15 minute window being the problem, and now being fixed.



This is inaccurate. Once you'd entered your password to install a free app there was no way to log out to disallow in app purchases, even rebooting one's phone left the authorization for in-app purchases active for 15 minutes.

Hmm, it worked for me. Downloaded Men vs Machines, then went to settings and tapped on store and signed out. Played the game for less than 10 minutes and went to make an in app purchase and it asked me to sign in. What am I doing right?
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post #108 of 127
4/15/11 at 7:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by hill60 View Post

So how did he make the later purchases???

...hmmm?

Anything I give to kids is linked to a prepaid iTunes card, just like cellphones, prepaid.

What that did was taught them the value of money, they learnt how to live within limits.

Something a lot of people could use a lesson in.

There were no later purchases. They were all done in that 15 minute window.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmillermcp View Post

You stopped reading the rest apparently...

Again, not only are In App purchases password protected but you can also use the built-in parental restrictions to disable the purchases whether they know the password or not.

The article does not state he ever gave the password to he children. It merely says there were allowed to download free apps. Regardless, there was still a flaw with the 15 minute window that allowed in app purchases without a password. It was only later with a patch did that change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by djsherly View Post

you don't have to be sorry to me. I'm just pointing out (without the benefit of the primary document) that the action appears to be based not on the 'same password' allegation, but on the prior 'time out' policy.

The situation as it stands now is not to the point, as far as i can tell. The cause of action arose in a different context, when the 'time out' policy was in effect. The fact that apple has mitigated the effect by forcing password reentry is nice, but that scheme was not present at the time of the incident. Again, going from the article, and not wanting to explore endless timelines of os/itunes updates to correlate.

Like i said before, i'd be inclined to take the charge on the chin and teach my kids about it - and trust, but to each their own. I doubt this will be successful.

exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by veblen View Post

I was lucky enough to find out about the 15 minute rule on password authentication before my kids made any in app purchases. The only reason I knew about the "feature" was that I frequent sites like this one. As soon as I read about it I disabled in app purchases on all 6 of our iOS devices. I think my not getting charged by my 5 year old randomly clicking on buttons just after I downloaded a kids game was just luck. Up to my reading articles on Apple rumor and fan sites I had assumed that my kids would be prompted for a password each time. Before I knew about the 15 rule I had no reason to completely disable in app purchases because I thought my children would be prompted for authentication.

I was not so fortunate. I mistakenly thought the 15 minute window did not apply to in-app purchases. I was under the impression that Apple did not initially have in-app purchases for free apps for just such a reason. They did not want people to be confused into thinking that a free app was not always free-so to speak.
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post #109 of 127
4/15/11 at 8:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

Those games should not be included in the free games section.

Given that you can play the games for months without ever buying anything, I have to disagree with this.

Quote:
Even an upgrade from a light to a full version should not be from within a 'free app' rather an ad would state it has to be 'purchased from the non-free section.

again I disagree. In fact I think they should require that all paid to upgrade has to be in app, whether it is to turn off apps or add levels. There should not be 15 Angry Birds or whatever that are just level packs. It should be one version. Or one for iPhone/touch and one for iPad but no more than that. Same for magazines, learn to whatever apps etc. Keeps things tidy, avoids rank spam and for games you can continue right where you were no issues


Also I recall that the whole in app purchases was one of those annoying terms updates. If folks agreed without reading that is their fault. Not Apple's
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post #110 of 127
4/15/11 at 8:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stupidscript View Post


How about this: Age-rate the games and say, "No in-app purchases for games rated Under 13". Is that so tough?

There is nothing stopping them from getting anything if they know the password or if the parents punch it in without vetting the app. The only possible way Apple could handle such an issue is if they restricted allowance accounts to only those things that were rated 4+ but not 13+ along with that rating rule.

But even then they would have to release a gigantic terms change in very large capital letters stating the new restriction very clearly and even more clearly that effective immediately they are not refunding in app purchases for any adult account regardless of your sob story and you need to put your kid on an allowance account or turn on restrictions. They could also change the rules so that you can't download 17+ aps or in app stuff unless you have a credit card on file or go to xyz webpage to fill out a digital affidavit that you are of age which requires you to include your driver's license number or other form of id. Hell if they did that perhaps they could put up a porn store th the kiddies wouldn't even see
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post #111 of 127
4/15/11 at 8:30pm
My wife and I were had to the tune of $99.99 when our 10 year old grandson made a "Purchase" in a FREE game he asked if he could download on her iPad. We were shocked when the receipt for the transaction was emailed to us the following day.

If you think we could get any help whatsoever through iTunes OR Apple, you are DEAD WRONG. We made multiple efforts, too...emails, phone calls, and personal visits at the nearest Apple store 50 miles from our home. In the end we just figured we'd have to such it up as some sort of "Stupid Tax." We had stern talk with him so he understood the severity of what he did, but frankly, we did not think he understood what he really was doing at the time. We blamed Apple for allowing that type of application without proper safeguards.

Maybe we will see our hundred bucks again...I hope so. I love Apple products, but shame on them allowing for this sort of garbage occuring...and for their lack of willingness to own up to taking any responsibility or assisting us in getting the transaction reversed.
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post #112 of 127
4/15/11 at 8:57pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by veblen View Post

As soon as I read about it I disabled in app purchases on all 6 of our iOS devices. I think my not getting charged by my 5 year old randomly clicking on buttons just after I downloaded a kids game was just luck.

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post #113 of 127
4/15/11 at 9:18pm
OK, so I won't deny that giving your kid your password is pretty stupid. I won't even tell my son the password to log into my devices.

However, it's clear that games like Smurfs Village were intended to take advantage of unsuspecting parents (or naive kids, dumb ass adults, whatever...), and that's still wrong.

Disagree? How do you explain Capcom listing Smurfs Village as a kids game, yet charging as much as $99 for in-app purchases? How many parents are likely to allow such a purchase and how many kids do you think have this much disposable income? If the minimum in-app purchase is $4.99, then why should the app be free?

I was pleased to see Apple change it's policy recently. Requiring the password helps and may negate the lawsuit. However, I'm still confused about when Apple changed it's policy around free apps.

Others in this forum recall Steve Jobs saying that free apps would remain free. I was also surprised to learn that this had changed. If an app is going to charge for content, then why can't it charge $.99 to download?

Keeping free apps free is still the best solution, but I'm not holding my breath.
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post #114 of 127
4/15/11 at 9:26pm
This sign in again for in app purchases, is it only implemented with 4.3?

what about people stuck on 3.1.3 and 4.2.1?
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post #115 of 127
4/15/11 at 9:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Because of the way Apple lets you share apps we all use the same account (If I buy a game, everybody else in my family can download it for free. If we separate the accounts everybody has to pay individually).

Not so sure that it true. I have apps from two different accounts on my ipad no problem. yes it means that sometimes I have to go hit up our office assistant to give me the password to download updates but she's usually around so what's the worry.
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post #116 of 127
4/16/11 at 3:23am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RodMiller View Post

My wife and I were had to the tune of $99.99 when our 10 year old grandson made a "Purchase" in a FREE game he asked if he could download on her iPad. We were shocked when the receipt for the transaction was emailed to us the following day.

Wow, that developer is clearly trying to rip people off, which game was it so other people don't get caught out? The reason why Apple won't be too receptive to a refund is that they make 30% of the amount so they'd have to give you back their $30 too.

I think Apple mentioned some controls over in-app purchases like logging out more quickly but they should really notify the account holder by email or something for every in-app purchase to confirm the transaction. Of course, someone could jump over to the email app and confirm it but a young person might not be able to figure it out.
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post #117 of 127
4/16/11 at 4:00am
I do blame the parents, but I also think that to quell the bad PR apple could simply add a require password for each transaction/dont remember password option, and perhaps a disable/enable in app purchase switch just like the enable disable wifi or gps switch. - and they could even make it per app like location services.

update, now that I think about it, ive never seen a logout of store button, so if I have recently downloaded updates, then in app purchases would automatically happen without a password...the more I think this through, the more I think this suit is legit.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #118 of 127
4/16/11 at 4:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

Why can't we take responsibility for our own actions, monitor our own children and stop asking the government and companies to "protect" us. Is it always about passing the buck and not owning up? Use your brain and stop having the need for others to think for you. You need to be just as responsible as Apple does. Jeeze.

I am a huge advocate of personal responsibility, but I think the case here is unique

Imagine if you buy a PPV movie on cable and the next day your kid is then able to buy some PPV event without entering a PIN or auth code because you entered one the night before...that is what we are talking about here, not cases of parents giving out passwords, cases of the password not being required as it should have been, and apple does have direct gain associated with this so called bug, so yeah its not a BS suit.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
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post #119 of 127
4/16/11 at 7:38am
Quote:
Originally Posted by charlituna View Post

Not so sure that it true. I have apps from two different accounts on my ipad no problem. yes it means that sometimes I have to go hit up our office assistant to give me the password to download updates but she's usually around so what's the worry.

You can download content to your iPod / phone / pad using any number of accounts but a purchase under one account does not give you free access to that purchase on another account. If you buy an app under one account up to four more users can download the same app for free as long as they log in to the purchasing account. This is the main reason for sharing an account among family members.
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post #120 of 127
4/16/11 at 9:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by a_greer View Post

Imagine if you buy a PPV movie on cable and the next day your kid is then able to buy some PPV event without entering a PIN or auth code because you entered one the night before...that is what we are talking about here, not cases of parents giving out passwords, cases of the password not being required as it should have been, and apple does have direct gain associated with this so called bug, so yeah its not a BS suit.

The night before is a far cry from 15 minutes. I don't think there is a resemblance of equivalence. It sounds like the answer is to go back to entering passwords every single time, I don't know if I like the idea of having to enter every time because Apple needed to protect themselves. They might need to publicize their parental locks more though, I think that's a key to preventing misuse and undesired surprises.
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