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Preemptive LOTR: The Two Towers thread - Page 2

post #41 of 82
re the Scouring: the whole book can be read as a lamentation for a world that is passing away, and the Scouring drives home the point that even the Shire will never be the same again. Industrialization (Sandyman's mill, etc.) is a part of that, but it also goes deeper. Remember Frodo's line in the book: "The Shire has been saved, Sam, but not for me."

If the Scouring is not in the third film (and Jackson as already said as much), then I hope we don't see the Shire at all in the third film. Seeing Frodo greeted by a bunch of dancing hobbits would just ring false.

I don't think the third film will end with a narration, unless it's how Sam went on to marry Rosie and became mayor. The final scene will be at the Havens. Here's how I want it to end:

Samwise: "But Mr. Frodo, I don't expect I'll ever see you again!"

Frodo (puts hand on Sam's shoulder): "You may yet, Sam. You may."

P.S. I bought the Extended DVD (not the gift set) for $28 at Best Buy ... well worth the money. The film is much richer because of the additions, and the commentaries and interviews are excellent. This was the "killer app" I just bought my DVD player for!
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post #42 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by CaseCom:
<strong>If the Scouring is not in the third film (and Jackson as already said as much), then I hope we don't see the Shire at all in the third film. </strong><hr></blockquote>Yes - watch the film on your new extended DVD with the director & writers' audio commentary. In the Galadriel's mirror scene, Jackson explicitly says that there is no scouring of the shire, and that what Frodo sees in the mirror is their homage to it because they left it out.

(I couldn't watch it with any of the other audio commentaries, but the one with the director and writers is pretty good.)
post #43 of 82
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by pfflam:
<strong>In the trailer as far as I could tell, I'm going to be dissapointed: I can't help but see a very distinct difference between the real-action characters and even the very fast flashes of Golem . . . . why oh why didn't he use a scrawny actor with make up!?!?!?!</strong><hr></blockquote>
He did.

Many of the scenes are Andy Serkis in 13 hours-worth of make up.
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post #44 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
He did.

Many of the scenes are Andy Serkis in 13 hours-worth of make up.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'd read that they ended up going with an all-CG Gollum. <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
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post #45 of 82
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[quote]Originally posted by CaseCom:
<strong>I'd read that they ended up going with an all-CG Gollum. :confused: </strong><hr></blockquote>
Maybe they did? It seems to have been quite a liquid project, with things changing as production went on. If so, I feel a little sorry for poor Mr. Serkis going through 13 hours of make up every day only to find his scenes on the cutting room floor.
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post #46 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
Maybe they did? It seems to have been quite a liquid project, with things changing as production went on. If so, I feel a little sorry for poor Mr. Serkis going through 13 hours of make up every day only to find his scenes on the cutting room floor. </strong><hr></blockquote>

I don't think that was a problem ... Serkis acted in a special black-and-blue spandex bodysuit that allowed the animators to match the CG character with Serkis' body movements. There's a brief clip of Serkis in the bodysuit in the FOTR Extended DVD "appendices". No makeup (although that may have put him in makeup a few times early on before they decided to go CG).
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post #47 of 82
On the CG-tip: being a computer nerd had really hindered my ability to enjoy films with special effects.
I was pissed at the first Harry Potter because of how atrocious the CG was (Neville Longbottom on the broom, Jesus Christ I could've done better with MS Paint) and in ranting about to my girlfriend I realized that it didn't make a damned bit of real difference, she loved the movie and I should have as well.

Anyhoo, as a result I was far less judgemental of LOTR:FOTR and will remain so for LOTF:TTT

Chamber of Secrets rocked. I love that series.
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post #48 of 82
Gollum is rendered entirely in CG, with animation captured from a motion capture company based in Atlanta, GA. It was in a trade magazine of mine about 8 - 10 months back that talked about all of the CG in LotR, especially how all the large massive battles are being built. They essentially built a simulation, and the battles end up getting virtually fought with the computer deciding every move each character makes based on a set of variables programmed into the simulator. Fun stuff
post #49 of 82
So, Belle?
post #50 of 82
Thread Starter 
Proof that karma exists:
[quote]Originally posted by me:
<strong>Let's just say I'll be spending the evening with people I wouldn't normally spend time with. I'm such a bitch.</strong><hr></blockquote>
I did. And I picked up an infection. Then spent the last five days in hospital.
[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>So, Belle?</strong><hr></blockquote>
When I saw the first movie, I honestly sat through the entire three hours without blinking. I think my mouth was probably hanging open, too. I just couldn't take my eyes off the screen. I figured that it wouldn't be quite the same this time, because we've already seen the "vision" of the movie - the way it looks and feels and sounds.

I was so wrong. I did it again, and just gaped the whole time. (Probably how I picked up the infection.) I may have drooled.

I think that Peter Jackson deliberately went easy on the battle scenes in the first movie. We just got a few glimpses of the battle in the prologue. But in this! Oh my.

What surprises me so much is that through both movies you feel the characters are in such peril, even though you know the outcome.

And the "embellishments" to the story (which was pretty much confined to the story of Aragorn and Arwen in FOTR) are much more satisfying. Éowyn is great, though I may be biased.

Éomer kicks ass, too. And Aragorn, who I thought was the peak of manhood in FOTR, despite not liking Viggo Mortensen in any of his other roles, is awesome in Two Towers.

Gollum is noticeably CGI, though perhaps I was looking out for it?

Oh, and for those who just want the Helm's Deep stuff, it starts about two hours in.

I'm a bit annoyed that I saw it now, though. Not because of the infection, but because I desperately want to see it again NOW.

[Edit: Oh, and the Ents... Can anyone say Jim Henson's Workshop? Hehe.]

[ 12-11-2002: Message edited by: Belle ]</p>
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post #51 of 82
5 days hospitalization, from an infection. The bastards! Probably should have snuck in your own food.
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post #52 of 82
My hospital has a Wendy's in it. If you're in a wheelchair you don't have to wait in line.
post #53 of 82
I've been reading some reviews (seems like it's been pretty heavily sneak-peaked) and they've all been positive. Someone at New Line is gettin' a promotion!
post #54 of 82
I will be watching the film on Dec 20th, 8:30pm in Copenhagen, Denmark
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post #55 of 82
I've just gone through the Fellowship (It's been over ten years since the last time I read it) and for the first film, I have to say that Jackson made very good choices about what to leave in/out and where to make changes. Some of the dialogue is even an improvement over Tolkien's. Personally, I would have put a bit more into them, 4 hour films don't phase me, but all in all, a very decent adaptation, one of the better book to film transitions in a while.
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post #56 of 82
Seems to me that because they shot all three movies in one go that the three would be either all bad or all good. Like one good movie split into three parts. Also considering the first on did so well there's little pressure to "fix" or out do the first one with the second.

Just occurred to me.
post #57 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
And Aragorn, who I thought was the peak of manhood in FOTR, despite not liking Viggo Mortensen in any of his other roles, is awesome in Two Towers.

[ 12-11-2002: Message edited by: Belle ][/QB]<hr></blockquote>

He was great in <a href="http://us.imdb.com/Title?0114194" target="_blank">The Prophecy</a>, playing Lucifer. A small role, but nicely done.

We won't have TTT until Dec 26. Cannot wait.
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post #58 of 82
Thread Starter 
I haven't seen The Prophecy, but I'll give it a go. I'm used to seeing Mortensen in things like Daylight. *Shudder*

Oh, another good thing about Two Towers - there's no prologue. We don't get a "Previously on Lord of the Rings..." flashback. It just goes straight to where we left off - Frodo and Sam entering Mordor, and Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas chasing the Uruk-hai.

It's a good move. I'd have been annoyed if the first twenty minutes were just a summary of the first movie.

So if it's been a while since you last saw Fellowship, dig out your DVD.
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post #59 of 82
I subscribe to Entertainment Weekly, partly for the movie reviews, and Owen Gleiberman gave "TTT" just a B grade, although you can tell from his <a href="http://www.ew.com/ew/article/review/movie/0,6115,396271~1~~lordofringstwo,00.html" target="_blank">review</a> that he's not a fan of Tolkien in general.

On the other hand, EW's other critic, Lisa Schwarzbaum, just named it <a href="http://www.ew.com/ew/article/commentary/0,6115,398641~1||397796|1~0~ewslisaschwarzbaumname s,00.html" target="_blank">the third-best movie of 2002</a>. Last year she gave FOTR a glowing review as well.

I'll judge for myself midnight Tuesday! :cool:
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post #60 of 82
<a href="http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/stories/BU0212/S00113.htm" target="_blank">Flying Frodo Air</a>
post #61 of 82
Belle - did you go to the premiere in NY, the one that the cast and PJ et al. attended?
post #62 of 82
belle, you will hopefully love the prophecy....love that freaky little movie....yeah, walken chewing the scenery at it's finest....and lucifer scenes are nice too, if too short......g

going with my youngest the 18th or 19th...waiting to see what day is best for her to play hooky....ah the joys of a dad and his nerd daughter.....g
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post #63 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>I've just gone through the Fellowship (It's been over ten years since the last time I read it) and for the first film, I have to say that Jackson made very good choices about what to leave in/out and where to make changes. Some of the dialogue is even an improvement over Tolkien's. Personally, I would have put a bit more into them, 4 hour films don't phase me, but all in all, a very decent adaptation, one of the better book to film transitions in a while.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have to agree that FOTR was a good adaptation, but it certainly felt like the
real movie didn't get released until this year. The "making of" material on the extended DVD make reference to an original 4-1/2 hour cut. THAT I want to see.

I understand cutting Tom Bombadil and even cutting the scouring of the Shire, but I don't like it. The wonder of Tolkien is in the details. The 3-1/2 hour version doesn't have a bunch of 5 or 10 minute scenes added, but just a minute to two here or there BUT that is what makes the story. Life is in the details and Tolkein was imitating the Creator as a sub-creator and where does it stop? See Tolkein's short story, "A Leaf by Niggle."

And Belle, I am SO envious. Five days in the hospital without children!
post #64 of 82
I feel like I am the only one but I really didn't like the first LOTR and am not intending to see the second one, Infact I think LOTR really sucks.

Anyone else not such a fan?
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post #65 of 82
I'll go see the second film, but I'm not really that psyched to see it. After all, About Schmidt, Adaptation, Catch Me if You Can, and Gangs of New York are all in at the same time. You can't go wrong this holiday season!
post #66 of 82
^Actually, I saw "Maid in Manhatten." (at my girlfriend's romantic comedy inclinations, of course)

....So if I didn't go wrong there, I certainly didn't go right either.
post #67 of 82
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>Belle - did you go to the premiere in NY, the one that the cast and PJ et al. attended?</strong><hr></blockquote>
I did! At the Ziegfeld on West 54th. I wore a sparkly frock, despite the slightly, er, inclement weather. I didn't get to meet any of the stars, though. I saw them close up (Orlando Bloom is hot!), and waved madly at Peter Jackson, who probably assumed I was drunk.
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>going with my youngest the 18th or 19th...waiting to see what day is best for her to play hooky....ah the joys of a dad and his nerd daughter.....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Now that's some quality fathering.
[quote]Originally posted by ShawnPatrickJoyce:
<strong>Actually, I saw "Maid in Manhatten."</strong><hr></blockquote>
Ouch. Did it stink as much as the preview would suggest? I'm not so sure about Gangs Of New York, either. Doesn't look very good at all. Kind of like Titanic with knife fights.
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post #68 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>I did! At the Ziegfeld on West 54th. I wore a sparkly frock, despite the slightly, er, inclement weather. I didn't get to meet any of the stars, though. I saw them close up (Orlando Bloom is hot!), and waved madly at Peter Jackson, who probably assumed I was drunk.
</strong><hr></blockquote>Cool. I've never been a practitioner of frotteurism, but I might of hadto make an exception for Miranda Otto.

[edit]ugh, realized how creepy that sounds. Just kidding Miranda! (hmm, wonder if she'll be coming out to the premiere in Missoula Montana?)

[ 12-16-2002: Message edited by: BRussell ]</p>
post #69 of 82
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by BRussell:
<strong>Cool. I've never been a practitioner of frotteurism, but I might of hadto make an exception for Miranda Otto.</strong><hr></blockquote>
Thanks for sharing.

Security was really tight, so if you'd tried it, you'd probably have been well and truly, er, frotteured, by a couple of burly guards.

I was personally quite hopeful that someone may attempt to assassinate Yoko Ono. Sadly, it didn't happen.
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post #70 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by Belle:
<strong>
So if it's been a while since you last saw Fellowship, dig out your DVD. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Or you can just <a href="http://www.sanmothy.com/aicommunity/pics/Fellowship.jpg" target="_blank">click here</a>. (okay, that was a lame joke. I admit it. )
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post #71 of 82
I just got my tickets!!!
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post #72 of 82
Got back a little while ago from a midnight showing in Minneapolis ... big fun! It's a great flick. There was one liberty Jackson took with the plot that I didn't like (*cough*Osgiliath*cough*) but all in all I liked it. Definitely leaves you wanting more. Bring on ROTK!
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post #73 of 82
also just got back from a midnight showing, currently packing for am flight to cali. just had to say though... i cried for practically half of the entire movie, those movies just really stir up something inside me, even without any love story. i think i cried the most during those great battle scenes... poor jack sitting next to me, having my fingernails digging into his arm...
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post #74 of 82
So, I saw it today a few hours ago. I thought it was good, though cinematically I think I may have enjoyed the first one more. Seemed like they made both Gimli and Gollum a bit too comical for my tastes.
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post #75 of 82
It was OK, but I felt too much was glossed over, this one is definitely waiting for a director's cut. One thing it brought back from the books, was my certain sense that, as much as Tolkien denied it, he was heavily coloured by the "Great Wars" of our own world. The counting contest between Gimli and Legolas practically screams of Billy Bishop and the flying aces of both world wars, as does the "industry" of Saruman echo the wreck of pastoral England, that being not really a result of war -- war itself merely its final product. In the film, engines and fortification have a forboding about them which Tolkien would have approved, I think.

I'm getting the sense now, that as much as Peter Jackson in his turn would like to say otherwise, we will not see a proper "Lord of the Rings" untill all three movies are subject to a final unifying director's cut, something easily over 10 hours, probably over 11, possibly kissing 12 hours, with some significant scene re-arrangement along the way.

We'll have to wait 2 years for it, though
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post #76 of 82
went to an earlier show with my youngest daughter and one of her friends....signed them out of school as, "Field Trip to Middle Earth"....but the front desk human at her school didn't even look, so it was a geeky moment for me only...though i made my daughter look before we left...we both enjoyed it, she liked it better than the first (which she has watched a few dozen times)...i too am looking forward to the extented director's version...could see where some scenes needed expanding....and would love to see the trees digging in their roots/toes when the water came....nice job all and all...once again the movie ended after three hours, yet didn't seem long at all...liked how it started too.....g
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post #77 of 82
oh, my daughter's friend like it better than the first also...but she has a huge crush on orlando bloom and his part was expanded more here than the first, so take her thoughts with a grain of salt....g


ps...my wife and eldest daughter laughed their asses off about how i signed the kids out of school....pointing and laugh and calling me a nerd and geek...sigh, all respect (if i ever had any) is long gone now....
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post #78 of 82
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by thegelding:
<strong>oh, my daughter's friend like it better than the first also...but she has a huge crush on orlando bloom and his part was expanded more here than the first, so take her thoughts with a grain of salt....</strong><hr></blockquote>
And what self-respecting woman wouldn't like Orlando in his blond wig and pointy ears, running about firing multiple arrows into the evil hordes?
[quote]<strong>ps...my wife and eldest daughter laughed their asses off about how i signed the kids out of school....pointing and laugh and calling me a nerd and geek...sigh, all respect (if i ever had any) is long gone now....</strong><hr></blockquote>
Well, thegelding, I think I can safely say you have the respect of everyone here... aaaaaand... it's done. Did you enjoy it while it lasted, pooface?
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post #79 of 82
[quote]Originally posted by Matsu:
<strong>... as much as Tolkien denied it, he was heavily coloured by the "Great Wars" of our own world. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Where does he deny this? The man was in WWI, and lost most of his friends there. Of course it would affect him.

As he was constantly saying, it wasn't allegorical.

Anyway, still waiting for Dec 26, so I can finally see it.
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post #80 of 82
[quote] Did you enjoy it while it lasted, pooface? <hr></blockquote>

yes...yes i did, "she who lives with many cats and has hairy feet"

what is funny is i'm not really a geek or nerd (never once played D&D)...but then you don't really want to hear about my life (hell, i don't what to hear about my life)...g

ps hope you are feeling well and get to see the movie many times....my youngest and i loved when the flaming tree guy runs up and dips him "head" in the on-coming water...nice little touches like that really fill the screen...other directors would leave blank or lifeless spaces)
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