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Let's Not Be Civil

post #1 of 10
Thread Starter 
Can you think of a worse thing to say a mere three months after the shooting of Giffords? Of course it isn't the worst thing by far, but really, it is just a ridiculous title within a ridiculous opinion piece that wholesale attempts to redfine words and live in a bizarro reality.

Quote:
Last week, President Obama offered a spirited defense of his partys values in effect, of the legacy of the New Deal and the Great Society.


Really, well the Washington Post called it a partisan speech.
They declared it sounded like the speech he should have given when announcing his reelection. It was a campaign speech, not a governing speech.

Quote:
Thats a bad idea. Equally important, its an undemocratic idea.

Apparently undemocratic has an entirely new meaning that doesn't involve all the people democratically elected having to deal with each other.

Quote:
But it was, in fact, a deeply partisan document, which you might have guessed from the opening sentence: Where the president has failed, House Republicans will lead.

The president hasn't lead. He's added trillions to the deficit. So what is the proof of this partisanship.....

Quote:
It hyped the danger of deficits, yet even on its own (not at all credible) accounting, spending cuts were used mainly to pay for tax cuts rather than deficit reduction. The transparent and obvious goal was to use deficit fears to impose a vision of small government and low taxes, especially on the wealthy.

Fearing deficits is now a partisan idea? Interesting concept there. Could the reasoning that it is paying for tax cuts being this strange reasoning again whereby if it doesn't demand a tax increase, it is "paying for tax cuts" since all of our lives and toil by default belong to the government?

Quote:
So the House budget proposal revealed a yawning gap between the two parties priorities. And it revealed a deep difference in views about how the world works.

Deep differences apparently are undemocratic.

Quote:
The point is that the two parties dont just live in different moral universes, they also live in different intellectual universes, with Republicans in particular having a stable of supposed experts who reliably endorse whatever they propose.

When Republicans have experts and use reports, facts and figures, it doesn't count. The experts are "supposed". They exist in a different universe.

Quote:
Eventually, of course, America must choose between these differing visions. And we have a way of doing that. Its called democracy.

Except for if you are Republican and win and put forward bills endorsed by experts. Then you are undemocratic, only a supposed expert and you live in a different universe.

Quote:
For what its worth, polls suggest that the publics priorities are nothing like those embodied in the Republican budget. Large majorities support higher, not lower, taxes on the wealthy. Large majorities including a majority of Republicans also oppose major changes to Medicare. Of course, the poll that matters is the one on Election Day. But thats all the more reason to make the 2012 election a clear choice between visions.

So if what is being said is true, then why even highlight it Mr. Krugman? Why not let them slit their own throats and vote themselves out of a job? It is certainly what the Democrats did with health care. Perhaps the reason is because there aren't polls showing this and no large majorities endorsing what you say. Perhaps this is why people are talking of a primary challenge for President Obama who has approval ratings far below the level that would lead to reelection. Perhaps that is why Democratic Senators are choosing to retire rather than run and get defeated. Those facts are stubborn things.

Quote:
Which brings me to those calls for a bipartisan solution. Sorry to be cynical, but right now bipartisan is usually code for assembling some conservative Democrats and ultraconservative Republicans all of them with close ties to the wealthy, and many who are wealthy themselves and having them proclaim that low taxes on high incomes and drastic cuts in social insurance are the only possible solution.

You will see Democrats and Republicans working together. Normally that would be called bipartisan but in THIS CASE it doesn't mean what it means. Bipartisan is now secret code for working together but the people doing it have some nasty labels I've attached to them and thus they are now bad and so the word doesn't apply any more. Sure it is a group of Democrats and Republicans but they are CONSERVATIVE Democrats, obviously undemocratically appointed to their positions and ULTRACONSERVATIVE Republicans who came to office by birthright rather than the vote. They have ties to the wealthy and by that we mean they won't be the ones raising a trillion dollars and bypassing public financing while running for President!

Quote:
This would be a corrupt, undemocratic way to make decisions about the shape of our society even if those involved really were wise men with a deep grasp of the issues.

There will be Democrats and Republicans working together but it doesn't count. They are respectively CONSERVATIVE and ULTRACONSERVATIVE and worse still they will have a majority vote to pass this legislation. However having both parties work together to pass legislation with majority votes is corrupt and undemocratic.

Quote:
So lets not be civil. Instead, lets have a frank discussion of our differences. In particular, if Democrats believe that Republicans are talking cruel nonsense, they should say so and take their case to the voters.

So let's not be civil. Let's go to some voters and tell them they have stupid men with a shallow grasp of the issue, who are ultraconservative and have their heads filled with supposed facts from supposed experts in an alternate universe and thus they have become corrupt and undemocratic. Please people out there seek out these "representatives" if you can call them that and be uncivil to them. Perhaps you can even send them back to their alternate universe.

Paul Krugman has gone insane. Worse still he is detached from reality and literally resorting to demanding people ignore what their eyes and ears tell them and substitute his dogma. Telling someone to ignore actions and substitute dogma and then telling them to go act in an uncivil manner. We've seen what happens when you say this to the unhinged left. You might as well be painting a target on someone's back Mr. Krugman.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #2 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Can you think of a worse thing to say a mere three months after the shooting of Giffords? Of course it isn't the worst thing by far, but really, it is just a ridiculous title within a ridiculous opinion piece that wholesale attempts to redfine words and live in a bizarro reality.



Really, well the Washington Post called it a partisan speech.
They declared it sounded like the speech he should have given when announcing his reelection. It was a campaign speech, not a governing speech.



Apparently undemocratic has an entirely new meaning that doesn't involve all the people democratically elected having to deal with each other.



The president hasn't lead. He's added trillions to the deficit. So what is the proof of this partisanship.....



Fearing deficits is now a partisan idea? Interesting concept there. Could the reasoning that it is paying for tax cuts being this strange reasoning again whereby if it doesn't demand a tax increase, it is "paying for tax cuts" since all of our lives and toil by default belong to the government?



Deep differences apparently are undemocratic.



When Republicans have experts and use reports, facts and figures, it doesn't count. The experts are "supposed". They exist in a different universe.



Except for if you are Republican and win and put forward bills endorsed by experts. Then you are undemocratic, only a supposed expert and you live in a different universe.



So if what is being said is true, then why even highlight it Mr. Krugman? Why not let them slit their own throats and vote themselves out of a job? It is certainly what the Democrats did with health care. Perhaps the reason is because there aren't polls showing this and no large majorities endorsing what you say. Perhaps this is why people are talking of a primary challenge for President Obama who has approval ratings far below the level that would lead to reelection. Perhaps that is why Democratic Senators are choosing to retire rather than run and get defeated. Those facts are stubborn things.



You will see Democrats and Republicans working together. Normally that would be called bipartisan but in THIS CASE it doesn't mean what it means. Bipartisan is now secret code for working together but the people doing it have some nasty labels I've attached to them and thus they are now bad and so the word doesn't apply any more. Sure it is a group of Democrats and Republicans but they are CONSERVATIVE Democrats, obviously undemocratically appointed to their positions and ULTRACONSERVATIVE Republicans who came to office by birthright rather than the vote. They have ties to the wealthy and by that we mean they won't be the ones raising a trillion dollars and bypassing public financing while running for President!



There will be Democrats and Republicans working together but it doesn't count. They are respectively CONSERVATIVE and ULTRACONSERVATIVE and worse still they will have a majority vote to pass this legislation. However having both parties work together to pass legislation with majority votes is corrupt and undemocratic.



So let's not be civil. Let's go to some voters and tell them they have stupid men with a shallow grasp of the issue, who are ultraconservative and have their heads filled with supposed facts from supposed experts in an alternate universe and thus they have become corrupt and undemocratic. Please people out there seek out these "representatives" if you can call them that and be uncivil to them. Perhaps you can even send them back to their alternate universe.

Paul Krugman has gone insane. Worse still he is detached from reality and literally resorting to demanding people ignore what their eyes and ears tell them and substitute his dogma. Telling someone to ignore actions and substitute dogma and then telling them to go act in an uncivil manner. We've seen what happens when you say this to the unhinged left. You might as well be painting a target on someone's back Mr. Krugman.

I never trusted Krugman or Geitner they are associated with large corporations and especially Geitner with Wall Street years ago. Obama to me is a big disappointment as President just keeps spending and spending.This deficit is over 14 trillion dollars now and they want to raise the debt ceiling are they crazy! More borrowing from China it will never end.
post #3 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Can you think of a worse thing to say a mere three months after the shooting of Giffords? Of course it isn't the worst thing by far, but really, it is just a ridiculous title within a ridiculous opinion piece that wholesale attempts to redfine words and live in a bizarro reality.



Really, well the Washington Post called it a partisan speech.
They declared it sounded like the speech he should have given when announcing his reelection. It was a campaign speech, not a governing speech.



Apparently undemocratic has an entirely new meaning that doesn't involve all the people democratically elected having to deal with each other.



The president hasn't lead. He's added trillions to the deficit. So what is the proof of this partisanship.....



Fearing deficits is now a partisan idea? Interesting concept there. Could the reasoning that it is paying for tax cuts being this strange reasoning again whereby if it doesn't demand a tax increase, it is "paying for tax cuts" since all of our lives and toil by default belong to the government?



Deep differences apparently are undemocratic.



When Republicans have experts and use reports, facts and figures, it doesn't count. The experts are "supposed". They exist in a different universe.



Except for if you are Republican and win and put forward bills endorsed by experts. Then you are undemocratic, only a supposed expert and you live in a different universe.



So if what is being said is true, then why even highlight it Mr. Krugman? Why not let them slit their own throats and vote themselves out of a job? It is certainly what the Democrats did with health care. Perhaps the reason is because there aren't polls showing this and no large majorities endorsing what you say. Perhaps this is why people are talking of a primary challenge for President Obama who has approval ratings far below the level that would lead to reelection. Perhaps that is why Democratic Senators are choosing to retire rather than run and get defeated. Those facts are stubborn things.



You will see Democrats and Republicans working together. Normally that would be called bipartisan but in THIS CASE it doesn't mean what it means. Bipartisan is now secret code for working together but the people doing it have some nasty labels I've attached to them and thus they are now bad and so the word doesn't apply any more. Sure it is a group of Democrats and Republicans but they are CONSERVATIVE Democrats, obviously undemocratically appointed to their positions and ULTRACONSERVATIVE Republicans who came to office by birthright rather than the vote. They have ties to the wealthy and by that we mean they won't be the ones raising a trillion dollars and bypassing public financing while running for President!



There will be Democrats and Republicans working together but it doesn't count. They are respectively CONSERVATIVE and ULTRACONSERVATIVE and worse still they will have a majority vote to pass this legislation. However having both parties work together to pass legislation with majority votes is corrupt and undemocratic.



So let's not be civil. Let's go to some voters and tell them they have stupid men with a shallow grasp of the issue, who are ultraconservative and have their heads filled with supposed facts from supposed experts in an alternate universe and thus they have become corrupt and undemocratic. Please people out there seek out these "representatives" if you can call them that and be uncivil to them. Perhaps you can even send them back to their alternate universe.

Paul Krugman has gone insane. Worse still he is detached from reality and literally resorting to demanding people ignore what their eyes and ears tell them and substitute his dogma. Telling someone to ignore actions and substitute dogma and then telling them to go act in an uncivil manner. We've seen what happens when you say this to the unhinged left. You might as well be painting a target on someone's back Mr. Krugman.

trumpy's favorite rant ( other than the Boomers ).

From Krugman I find this to be totally factual.
Quote:
Now, Republicans claim that last year’s midterms gave them a mandate for the vision embodied in their budget. But last year the G.O.P. ran against what it called the “massive Medicare cuts” contained in the health reform law. How, then, can the election have provided a mandate for a plan that not only would preserve all of those cuts, but would go on, over time, to dismantle Medicare completely?

For what it’s worth, polls suggest that the public’s priorities are nothing like those embodied in the Republican budget. Large majorities support higher, not lower, taxes on the wealthy. Large majorities — including a majority of Republicans — also oppose major changes to Medicare. Of course, the poll that matters is the one on Election Day. But that’s all the more reason to make the 2012 election a clear choice between visions.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #4 of 10
If massive debt and deficit spending were a viable business model, I'd be able to run my personal finances the same way. It just doesn't work.
From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
Reply
post #5 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac View Post

trumpy's favorite rant ( other than the Boomers ).

From Krugman I find this to be totally factual.

You're right that thru didn't reverse the cuts the Democrats passed. I have three points on that. First it still has nothing to do with being civil and characterizing bipartisanship and democratic actions as extreme, cruel, harmful, etc. Second the Democrats passed them so why waste political capital to let them avoid taking the heat for it. Finally if a politician is going to lie to me, I'd rather it be about not reversing cuts rather than increasing spending. If I have to pick my poison, I know where I'll pick there.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
post #6 of 10
Edit... no point in arguing really, is there? Barack Obama's the personification of evil after all.
post #7 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

Edit... no point in arguing really, is there? Barack Obama's the personification of evil after all.

He is a one term president that is it! I truthfully voted for him but now he is turning really sour in my opinion.He double talks and really cares nothing about the working class or poor.
post #8 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

He is a one term president that is it! I truthfully voted for him but now he is turning really sour in my opinion.He double talks and really cares nothing about the working class or poor.

YES! And he's not even American! He was born in Peru, or Mexico, or some shit like that.
post #9 of 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

YES! And he's not even American! He was born in Peru, or Mexico, or some shit like that.

I thought it was somewhere over the rainbow.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #10 of 10
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I thought it was somewhere over the rainbow.

Born? Are deities born or did they always exist?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

Reply
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