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ITC staff voices support for HTC, Nokia in Apple patent case

post #1 of 16
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The staff of the U.S. International Trade commission has recommended that HTC and Nokia not be found liable of infringing on Apple's patents in a dispute over smartphone technologies.

The ITC trial began on Monday in Washington, with Apple requesting that the commission block imports of HTC's Android-based handsets, as well as some Nokia devices, Bloomberg reports.

Staff lawyer Erin Joffre relayed the ITC staff recommendation, which is made on behalf of the public, in favor of HTC and Nokia at the start of the trial. The staff's recommendation is not binding and will be considered by ITC Administrative Law Judge Carl Charneski before he releases his findings on Aug. 5.

Carneski's ruling would then be subject to review by the six-member commission. The ITC serves as a "quasi-judicial" federal agency and has the power to block the importing of products to the U.S.

According to the report, this is the first Android-related patent dispute that has reached the trial stage at the ITC. More than a dozen cases involving smartphones have been brought before the commission.

What makes Apple products so successful is not just what you see, but whats under the hood, said Apple lawyer Greg Arovas of Kirkland & Ellis in opening arguments. Arovas went on to state Apple's claim that HTC infringes five patents vital to the seamless integration of hardware and software in a smartphone.

HTC lawyer Robert Van Nest of Keker & Van Nest responded by arguing that Apple's patents "were, at best, a very narrow distinction" from other inventions. At issue are several patents related to signal processing and inter-process communications developed in the early 1990s.

HTC is a smartphone innovator and pioneer in the smartphone sphere -- they were there long before Apple, Van Nest said. The fundamental differences from the Apple patents represent choices made by HTC and Google.

Apple also alleges that Nokia has violated the same signal processing patent as the one listed in the HTC case. As such, the claim has been "spun off from a separate complaint against Nokia, which is scheduled to be decided by June 24," the report noted.

Nokia lawyer Pat Flinn of Alston & Bird accused Apple of deciding to "dredge up patents" after the "pioneers of mobile phones" approached the company for royalties.

Advances in technology have made the patent moot, Flinn said of Apple's signal processing patent. The Apple iPhone doesnt practice the patent.

Apple vs. HTC

After Apple filed a complaint accusing HTC of infringing 20 of its patents, the ITC agreed last April to review the case. HTC's Nexus One and myTouch smartphones were specifically mentioned in the suit.

HTC responded by countersuing Apple, alleging the iPhone maker had violated five patents.

As Android has attracted more than a dozen patent disputes, Google has spoken out in support of its hardware partners. "We are not a party to this lawsuit," spokesperson for the company said last year. "However, we stand behind our Android operating system and the partners who have helped us to develop it."

HTC asserted last year that the suit has not affected the Taiwanese handset maker's operations. "It's part of business," said HTC CEO Peter Chou. "We need to face it and everyone can talk through it."

Apple vs. Nokia

In 2009, Nokia made the first move by filing a lawsuit against Apple, alleging that the iPhone infringes upon GSM and wireless LAN related patents. Apple vowed to "vigorously" defend itself against the suit. The ITC began formally investigating the suit in January 2010.

Last month, the ITC ruled that Apple did not infringe five patents belonging to Nokia. Within days, Nokia had filed a second complaint with the ITC, accusing Apple's iPhone, iPod, iPad and Mac products of infringing upon seven patents.

"Our latest ITC filing means we now have 46 Nokia patents in suit against Apple, many filed more than 10 years before Apple made its first iPhone," said Paul Melin, vice president of intellectual property at Nokia. "Nokia is a leading innovator in technologies needed to build great mobile products and Apple must stop building its products using Nokia's proprietary innovation."

Since 2008, Apple has been the most-sued technology company, according to one research firm. In order to defend itself, the Cupertino, Calif., company has hired several prominent patent lawyers as outside counsel.
post #2 of 16
The same outcome for the Samsung case.

Apple is just wasting litigation money and time.

Lawyers will be more than happy though.

"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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"Like I said before, share price will dip into the $400."  - 11/21/12 by Galbi

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post #3 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

The same outcome for the Samsung case.

Apple is just wasting litigation money and time.

Lawyers will be more than happy though.

Ummm..This is no outcome. And if you are going by the nokia case, there the judge ruled in the opposite direction as the itc staff recommendations. The itc is a political body more than anything else. Most of these recommendations are not very useful.

And anyone else see the irony of HTC saying in their defense that they have been in the smartphone space much longer than apple and then talking about how they and Google have been pioneering? Besides, HTC's presence in the phone business is irrelevant because with the advent of the iPhone the phone business became an extension of the computing business. It's no coincidence that the biggest players currently are computer based companies (ms, google, apple, hp) and the biggest former phone companies are barely skating by (nokia, motorola)
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

The same outcome for the Samsung case.

Apple is just wasting litigation money and time.

Lawyers will be more than happy though.

Samsung released a knockoff iPhone. No reasonable person would see the Galaxy S as anything but. This is all irrelevant to this case.

These patents are more esoteric and these staff recommendations are fairly meaningless. The Judge will consider them, they have no specified weight.
post #5 of 16
All these cloners are a complete joke. There would be no touch screen smart phone market right now if not for the iPhone. Apple put the smart phone on the map. Android was a Blackberry clone before the iPhone was publicly shown. then magically, over night, it turned into a keyboardless, touch screen phone.

There were no real tablet computers before the iPad. Alls you had was the terrible, bloated OSX clone, Windows running on a "tablet" form factor. Now that Apple has shown the world how to make a tablet computer, everyone is cloning them; copying everything as usual.
post #6 of 16
Claiming Google was copying a successful Apple product, which it wasn't yet, makes for a nice story to beat on the competition with. But you're (intentionally?) ignoring that it was Andy Rubin who was responsible for much of the OS development for one of the original smartphones, the Sidekick. Apparently he saw a huge upside to the mobile market, going on to found Android in 2005. Easy facts to find with a little searching.

Rubin had a vision of Android pre-dating the iPhone by at least two years, so it's hard to fathom how so many here would believe that the Android OS was somehow "stolen" from Apple. In fact it's certainly possible that Mr. Jobs took ideas for Apple's mobile plans from conversations he had with Google and/or Andy Rubin himself. It's been reported several times that the two companies traded ideas back and forth. IMO, it's likely that some of Apple's ideas came from conversations with Google folk. They were friends and Google was happy to share their vision according to sources.

So argue the advantages of Apple and it's ecosystems on their own merits. There's lots of reasons to prefer iOS devices. Crying that someone else is on the playground with the same toys sounds like an excuse and something neither Apple nor it's fans should have to stoop to. Apple's bigger than that.
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post #7 of 16
Quote:
HTC is a smartphone innovator and pioneer in the smartphone sphere -- they were there long before Apple, Van Nest said.

I love that statement, forget the fact that HTC got it start and know how from working with Motorola for many years. HTC use to manufacture Motorola branded products and then went off and made their own products from what they learned. No innovation there.

I challenge anyone to point to technology we use everyday which originated in one of these Asian countries. I'll give you fireworks and maybe the walkman. But everything is just a refinement on technology which came out of the US or European country.
post #8 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Rubin had a vision of Android pre-dating the iPhone by at least two years, so it's hard to fathom how so many here would believe that the Android OS was somehow "stolen" from Apple. In fact it's certainly possible that Mr. Jobs took ideas for Apple's mobile plans from conversations he had with Google and/or Andy Rubin himself. It's been reported several times that the two companies traded ideas back and forth. IMO, it's likely that some of Apple's ideas came from conversations with Google folk. They were friends and Google was happy to share their vision according to sources.

You assume that Apple/Job did not have a vision for a phone prior to 2005. The apple phone project was most likely on the drawing board at the same time the iPod was. I would even venture to guess in Steve mind it was on the drawing board when iTunes first came. If you think back iTunes the launch board for everything that followed.

What many people fail to understand, Steve has a very long term view, where as most companies are only thinking about what is the next hot thing and how can they get a cut of the market. I would also say that Steve was thinking about the Ipad when he killed newton since he knew it was not the right platform.
post #9 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Claiming Google was copying a successful Apple product, which it wasn't yet, makes for a nice story to beat on the competition with. But you're (intentionally?) ignoring that it was Andy Rubin who was responsible for much of the OS development for one of the original smartphones, the Sidekick. Apparently he saw a huge upside to the mobile market, going on to found Android in 2005. Easy facts to find with a little searching.

Rubin had a vision of Android pre-dating the iPhone by at least two years, so it's hard to fathom how so many here would believe that the Android OS was somehow "stolen" from Apple. In fact it's certainly possible that Mr. Jobs took ideas for Apple's mobile plans from conversations he had with Google and/or Andy Rubin himself. It's been reported several times that the two companies traded ideas back and forth. IMO, it's likely that some of Apple's ideas came from conversations with Google folk. They were friends and Google was happy to share their vision according to sources.

So argue the advantages of Apple and it's ecosystems on their own merits. There's lots of reasons to prefer iOS devices. Crying that someone else is on the playground with the same toys sounds like an excuse and something neither Apple nor it's fans should have to stoop to. Apple's bigger than that.


wrong. Google Android is a complete clone of iOS. Amazing how Android started as a Blackberry clone and once the iphone was publicly shown, it become a touch screen based OS cloned from iOS. Here are some facts to back it up....check the nice image:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...oogle_ceo.html
post #10 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Claiming Google was copying a successful Apple product, which it wasn't yet, makes for a nice story to beat on the competition with. But you're (intentionally?) ignoring that it was Andy Rubin who was responsible for much of the OS development for one of the original smartphones, the Sidekick. Apparently he saw a huge upside to the mobile market, going on to found Android in 2005. Easy facts to find with a little searching.

Rubin had a vision of Android pre-dating the iPhone by at least two years, so it's hard to fathom how so many here would believe that the Android OS was somehow "stolen" from Apple. In fact it's certainly possible that Mr. Jobs took ideas for Apple's mobile plans from conversations he had with Google and/or Andy Rubin himself. It's been reported several times that the two companies traded ideas back and forth. IMO, it's likely that some of Apple's ideas came from conversations with Google folk. They were friends and Google was happy to share their vision according to sources.

So argue the advantages of Apple and it's ecosystems on their own merits. There's lots of reasons to prefer iOS devices. Crying that someone else is on the playground with the same toys sounds like an excuse and something neither Apple nor it's fans should have to stoop to. Apple's bigger than that.

Take a look at the early Android prototypes, they looked like 2005 smartphones i.e. Blackberry, Motorola Q, Palm Treo, after the iPhone launched Android phones changed almost as quickly as Samsung changed the Tab 10.1 after seeing the iPad 2.
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post #11 of 16
Why does what an early prototype looked like matter? You really think early prototypes of the iPhone look just like the version that made it to market? It's such a weak argument that it doesn't matter at all. Just as a 2006 Cadillac isn't the same as the 2011 model, products are supposed to improve over time aren't they? Your "proof" isn't anything other than evidence of improvement.
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post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

The same outcome for the Samsung case.

Apple is just wasting litigation money and time.

Lawyers will be more than happy though.

Yes, because you're an international patent attorney, and not some kind of robotic Apple hate machine.
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post #13 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Why does what an early prototype looked like matter? You really think early prototypes of the iPhone look just like the version that made it to market? It's such a weak argument that it doesn't matter at all. Just as a 2006 Cadillac isn't the same as the 2011 model, products are supposed to improve over time aren't they? Your "proof" isn't anything other than evidence of improvement.

1) It wasn't an early prototype. It was a fully functional one, Google was demoing.

2) You really think companies spend time/energy developing, and demoing, prototypes, which are nothing like the final product? What do you think a prototype is used for?

3) Also, so you think its just a coincidence that Google's prototype happened to look like what were the hottest selling phones at the time (the Blackberry, and Treo type phones), and then just coincidentally switched directions after the hottest phone changed?
post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by addicted44 View Post

1) It wasn't an early prototype. It was a fully functional one, Google was demoing.

2) You really think companies spend time/energy developing, and demoing, prototypes, which are nothing like the final product? What do you think a prototype is used for?

3) Also, so you think its just a coincidence that Google's prototype happened to look like what were the hottest selling phones at the time (the Blackberry, and Treo type phones), and then just coincidentally switched directions after the hottest phone changed?

When the iPhone first came to market it wasn't the hottest phone. In fact there were a lot of doubters if I read the early reviews correctly. But that doesn't matter at all, really.

Your little picture is simply of a first effort at what Google thought an Android phone might look like. At the time they weren't even building a "Google phone". Prototypes are often changed, even scrapped altogether, before the finished version makes it to market aren't they? In fact many never make it to retail shelves at all.

It's sounds pretty silly if you're trying to say they should have stayed with a "Blackberry-type" face. Doesn't a full touchscreen with slide-out keyboard look nicer?
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post #15 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

When the iPhone first came to market it wasn't the hottest phone. In fact there were a lot of doubters if I read the early reviews correctly. But that doesn't matter at all, really.

Your little picture is simply of a first effort at what Google thought an Android phone might look like. At the time they weren't even building a "Google phone". Prototypes are often changed, even scrapped altogether, before the finished version makes it to market aren't they? In fact many never make it to retail shelves at all.

It's sounds pretty silly if you're trying to say they should have stayed with a "Blackberry-type" face. Doesn't a full touchscreen with slide-out keyboard look nicer?

LOL at the fan-drone who does not care about the facts and continues with the fantasy that Android is not a blantant rip off of iOS.
post #16 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by bullhead View Post

wrong. Google Android is a complete clone of iOS. Amazing how Android started as a Blackberry clone and once the iphone was publicly shown, it become a touch screen based OS cloned from iOS. Here are some facts to back it up....check the nice image:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...oogle_ceo.html

Yes the G1.... I know someone who still has one. It was a piece of crap. Once they saw the iphone everyone jumped on the bandwagon. The touch screen devices of that time had no gestures like iOS.
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