or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › White iPhone video may show scrapped Exposé interface for iOS multitasking
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

White iPhone video may show scrapped Exposé interface for iOS multitasking - Page 4

post #121 of 141
I think you're losing it bro.

From Apple: "a suspended app remain in memory". Not much memory is used presumably, but some. That's the difference between a backgrounded app and an app that is physically closed down.

And of course you can access bacgrounded apps from anywhere? Clicking the app icon on your home screen will access the backgrounded app just the same as accessing it from the background bar would.

No, 512MB of RAM is not enough to run everything constantly, that's why Apple says that:
- if the system starts to run out of memory some backgrounded apps will be closed down
- from time to time it's good practice to physically close down apps

And I'm fine with Copernicus' explanation for the movement of celestial bodies. He was more convincing than you are :-)
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
post #122 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

From Apple: "a suspended app remain in memory”.

A SUSPENDED APP! Again, FAS is not a list of SUSPENDED APPS. It’s a list of apps in the order you last accessed them.

That should lead to jump to the erronoues conclusion that all apps in FAS are using RAM. Why a select few this FAS is some insight to your RAM usage is getting insane. It’s fucking list of recent apps which may or may not be running or suspended.

Quote:
- if the system starts to run out of memory some backgrounded apps will be closed down

And yet they all still remain in FAS in the order they were last accessed.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #123 of 141
I think you are supporting my point of view which is that Apple has done a poor job of differentiating between the different things that the Background Bar does.

I'll reiterate it:

I think where people seem to get confused by the Background Bar is that it does several different things, whilst failing to really differentiate between them. It combines: "system apps" (which traditionally would always be open, and shouldn't really need to ever be closed eg phone, messages, iPod, Safari etc), PLUS a list of backgrounded recently opened apps which are in a suspended state, PLUS apps that are running background processes. I guess the reason they don't differentiate between these three different groups is to keep things as simple as possible for the user, but the downside is that for some people (Solip?) it actually seems to lead to confusion. Personally I would like to see some sort of visual differentiation between apps that are actually running background processes and those that aren't (with perhaps even the ability to see how much memory each app is using... however this is obviously extremely un-iOS-ey)

Your english is starting to become a little unclear though so I can't be entirely certain (perhaps reread your 2nd sentence in your last post?)

Your focusing on one thing that Bacground Bar does - ie list all recently opened (then suspended) apps. Do you agree that all suspended apps are listed in the Background Bar?

If what you are saying was true though, ie that the Background Bar is ONLY a list of recently opened apps, then opening an App, then going to the Background Bar and physically closing that App down (jiggle/press) shouldn't remove it from the list should it? Because by definition it would still be a recently opened app... The reason Apple allows you to physically close it down is to free up the (likely small) amount of memory it is occupying in its suspended/backgrounded state.

I hope this is clear.
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
post #124 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

I think you are supporting my point of view which is that Apple has done a poor job of differentiating between the different things that the Background Bar does.

I'll reiterate it:

I think where people seem to get confused by the Background Bar is that it does several different things, whilst failing to really differentiate between them. It combines: "system apps" (which traditionally would always be open, and shouldn't really need to ever be closed eg phone, messages, iPod, Safari etc), PLUS a list of backgrounded recently opened apps which are in a suspended state, PLUS apps that are running background processes. I guess the reason they don't differentiate between these three different groups is to keep things as simple as possible for the user, but the downside is that for some people (Solip?) it actually seems to lead to confusion. Personally I would like to see some sort of visual differentiation between apps that are actually running background processes and those that aren't (with perhaps even the ability to see how much memory each app is using... however this is obviously extremely un-iOS-ey)

Your english is starting to become a little unclear though so I can't be entirely certain (perhaps reread your 2nd sentence in your last post?)

Your focusing on one thing that Bacground Bar does - ie list all recently opened (then suspended) apps. Do you agree that all suspended apps are listed in the Background Bar?

If what you are saying was true though, ie that the Background Bar is ONLY a list of recently opened apps, then opening an App, then going to the Background Bar and physically closing that App down (jiggle/press) shouldn't remove it from the list should it? Because by definition it would still be a recently opened app... The reason Apple allows you to physically close it down is to free up the (likely small) amount of memory it is occupying in its suspended/backgrounded state.

I hope this is clear.

1) It’s called Fast App Switcher, NOT Background Bar.

2) It’s a list of all apps you’ve open in the past, unless you’ve specifically removed it from the list of your recent apps in FAS.

3) Yes, it does show running and suspended apps AS WELL AS EVERY FUCKING APP YOU’VE RUN unless you’ve specifically removed it from your recent apps in FAS.

4) Apple has apparently made their backgrounding processes too seamless because you can’t seem to see that FAS is not callied or is a Background Bar and the ONLY other service it offers is to remove the app from the FAS list which will also remove it from RAM if it happens to be in RAM, but being in FAS is not a guarantee that it’s still using RAM. (Why is this concept so hard to understand?)

5) Run some goddamn tests on your RAM. This is cut and dry, simple shit.

6) I’ve said since day one that Apple needs to offer a badge so users know which apps in FAS are still using resources because you can’t teach those that choose to be stupid.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #125 of 141
Kinda sounds like we finally agree :-)

Time for the gym, have a good one!
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
post #126 of 141
Why would they need to call it a backgrounded bar if you can access backgrounded apps from the home screen?


Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

And of course you can access bacgrounded apps from anywhere? Clicking the app icon on your home screen will access the backgrounded app just the same as accessing it from the background bar would.
post #127 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Why would they need to call it a backgrounded bar if you can access backgrounded apps from the home screen?

Ive met people who work in IT with degrees in computer science that thought they had to double-tap the Home Button to keep an running in the background if they want to switch apps.

It sounds like its only people with some technical background that are misunderstanding what FAS does so it might be a very limited issue, but at the same time I cant help but think Apple needs to make some changes because these people dont understand what FAS is.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #128 of 141
The FAS is one of my party tricks. Most people don't even know its there. They are shocked when I show it to them. But I agree its not really that much faster.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I can’t help but think Apple needs to make some changes because these people don’t understand what FAS is.
post #129 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Why would they need to call it a backgrounded bar if you can access backgrounded apps from the home screen?

http://www.apple.com/iphone/features/multitasking.html

According to Apple, the official name of the double home button revealing at the bottom of the screen place where you scroll sideways viewing app icons and the music controls also the icons can be jiggled to enable the deletion of those apps from that place, is the Multitasking User Interface.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #130 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Why would they need to call it a backgrounded bar if you can access backgrounded apps from the home screen?

Sorry, just to be clear - Apple don't call it the "Background Bar", I made that name up in the same way Solip appears to have made up "Fast App Switcher". I just said that it should be called something like that because it would probably more clearly express what it is.

As mstone points out, Apple actually call it the "Multitasking User Interface", which is a little clunky but does the job. Solip probably wouldn't like this name either though because he doesn't seem to buy into backgrounded apps having anything to do with multitasking... His name - "FAS" suits his worldview better.

Tenobell - when you say "But I agree its not really that much faster." You've kind of hit the nail on the head here. If the MUI/FAS/BB was designed simply for switching between apps, then it is anything BUT fast. Double-clicking is clunky, and then if you have 50 "recently opened" apps in your MUI, you might need to scroll through 12 pages worth to find the right one! Obviously much faster to just push the home button once and find your app by scrolling thru home pages at 16 icons per page rather than 4!

Are we clear yet? :-)
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
post #131 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

Sorry, just to be clear - Apple don't call it the "Background Bar", I made that name up in the same way Solip appears to have made up "Fast App Switcher.

Apple called it Fast App Swtiching. That what is being expressed when I state FAS.

Quote:
I just said that it should be called something like that because it would probably more clearly express what it is.

As youve been schooled ad nauseum it is not a list of all apps running in the background.

If you dont even know what Apple called it I cant expect you to know what it is or do a modicum of research to understand it.

Quote:
As mstone points out, Apple actually call it the "Multitasking User Interface", which is a little clunky but does the job. Solip probably wouldn't like this name either though because he doesn't seem to buy into backgrounded apps having anything to do with multitasking... His name - "FAS" suits his worldview better.

They say "The multitasking user interface allows you to quickly switch between apps. Just double-click the Home button to reveal your recently used apps.

BTW (By the way), Its a multitasking user interface, but so is the Home Screen as its a UI and apps do run in the background in iOS like they have since iPhone OS 1.0.

Note that none of the words are capitalized because its not a title. This is basic English you and mstone should have learned as children. Also not the last 5 words, "eveal your recently used apps. not apps that are all still running in the background. They could be running in the background, but FAS doesnt show that.

Quote:
Tenobell - when you say "But I agree its not really that much faster." You've kind of hit the nail on the head here. If the MUI/FAS/BB was designed simply for switching between apps, then it is anything BUT fast. Double-clicking is clunky, and then if you have 50 "recently opened" apps in your MUI, you might need to scroll through 12 pages worth to find the right one! Obviously much faster to just push the home button once and find your app by scrolling thru home pages at 16 icons per page rather than 4!

Thats why FAS is needed, its your recent app list in the order you last used them. Can you guess which apps they place first in FAS and which apps they place last. Hint: It has to do with the order you last accessed them.

Quote:
Are we clear yet? :-)

Its doubtful youve actually understand anything when you dont even understand what FAS is, think its a list of apps running in the background and now think Apple titled it the Multitasking User Interface.

Im done. Its one thing to educate people who are slow but you are purposely being obtuse. Why troll, seriously? (rhetorical)
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #132 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Im done. Its one thing to educate people who are slow but you are purposely being obtuse. Why troll, seriously? (rhetorical)

ditto.
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
15" uMacbook Pro 2.4Ghz 8GB 128GB SSD/500GB 7200rpm, iMac 27" i5 16GB 1TB, MacBook Air 8GB 256GB, iPhone 5s 64GB, iPhone 4 32GB, iPad 4 64GB, Apple TV2/3, iPod Nano 2nd gen, iPod Touch 4th gen,...
Reply
post #133 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Apple called it Fast App Swtiching. That what is being expressed when I state FAS.


As you’ve been schooled ad nauseum it is not a list of all apps running in the background.

If you don’t even know what Apple called it I can’t expect you to know what it is or do a modicum of research to understand it.


They say "The multitasking user interface allows you to quickly switch between apps. Just double-click the Home button to reveal your recently used apps.”

BTW (By the way), It’s a multitasking user interface, but so is the Home Screen as it’s a UI and apps do run in the background in iOS like they have since iPhone OS 1.0.

Note that none of the words are capitalized because it’s not a title. This is basic English you and mstone should have learned as children. Also not the last 5 words, "eveal your recently used apps.” not apps that are all still running in the background. They could be running in the background, but FAS doesn’t show that.


That’s why FAS is needed, it’s your recent app list in the order you last used them. Can you guess which apps they place first in FAS and which apps they place last. Hint: It has to do with the order you last accessed them.


It’s doubtful you’ve actually understand anything when you don’t even understand what FAS is, think it’s a list of apps running in the background and now think Apple titled it the Multitasking User Interface.

I’m done. It’s one thing to educate people who are slow but you are purposely being obtuse. Why troll, seriously? (rhetorical)

Rule #1: if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Dude, I will be the first to confirm that your posts are 99.9999% correct but you need to give up and acknowledge your errors when when it is obvious that you misstated something. People will commend you for that. It is not a failure to be informed by someone else. I'm not infallible either. No one is.

I'll start. I was probably mistaken when I said the Skype app restarted after a power cycle. I'm not sure since I haven't been able to test it definitively. But seriously, are you going to keep clinging to your mantra of FAS in light of all the contradictory documentation from Apple?
It is a complicated multifunctional interface that will be improved over time no doubt. We are all learning as we go along.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #134 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

According to Apple, the official name of the double home button revealing at the bottom of the screen place where you scroll sideways viewing app icons and the music controls also the icons can be jiggled to enable the deletion of those apps from that place, is the Multitasking User Interface.

They did not use that as a title of the bar. That was a description of the system. The multitasking API's are set from the apps preferences. You never have to use the FAS bar to do anything with multitasking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Rule #1: if you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. Dude, I will be the first to confirm that your posts are 99.9999% correct but you need to give up and acknowledge your errors when when it is obvious that you misstated something. People will commend you for that. It is not a failure to be informed by someone else. I'm not infallible either. No one is.

All you are using is Apple's marketing terms to support your belief that the FAS bar is used for multitasking. Where is there evidence in the functionality of any app that a user must access the FAS bar to access multitasking?

Unless you can show that, I don't see where anything Sol has said is wrong.
post #135 of 141
It depends on the situation. If the most recent apps you've used are spread across several different pages. Then it will be faster to go to the FAS because the apps will be listed in order of use no matter where they are located in the home pages.

In that case it would be faster.


A YouTube video posted last year after Apple previewed iOS 4, iPhone OS 4 Multitasking Fast App Switching Animation

Quote:
Originally Posted by ameldrum1 View Post

Tenobell - when you say "But I agree its not really that much faster." You've kind of hit the nail on the head here. If the MUI/FAS/BB was designed simply for switching between apps, then it is anything BUT fast. Double-clicking is clunky, and then if you have 50 "recently opened" apps in your MUI, you might need to scroll through 12 pages worth to find the right one! Obviously much faster to just push the home button once and find your app by scrolling thru home pages at 16 icons per page rather than 4!

Are we clear yet? :-)
post #136 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

They did not use that as a title of the bar. That was a description of the system. The multitasking API's are set from the apps preferences. You never have to use the FAS bar to do anything with multitasking.



All you are using is Apple's marketing terms to support your belief that the FAS bar is used for multitasking. Where is there evidence in the functionality of any app that a user must access the FAS bar to access multitasking?

Unless you can show that, I don't see where anything Sol has said is wrong.

Two things:

Show anywhere that Apple uses FAS as a feature or name and two what part of apps remain in memory do you not understand?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #137 of 141
Fast app switching - All developers should take advantage of fast app switching, which allows users to leave your app and come right back to where they were when they left - no more having to reload the app.

What's New in iOS 4

The second thing I don't understand at all.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Two things:

Show anywhere that Apple uses FAS as a feature or name and two what part of apps remain in memory do you not understand?
post #138 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell View Post

Fast app switching - All developers should take advantage of fast app switching, which allows users to leave your app and come right back to where they were when they left - no more having to reload the app.

What's New in iOS 4

The second thing I don't understand at all.

Good find except there is no way for developers to take advantage of fast app switching so that is just more marketing mumbo jumbo. Developers have no means of accessing or implementing that as it is not part of the API it is handled automatically by the os exclusively. The recommendation that we should take advantage of it is ridiculous because it is impossible, but I'll give the credit for finding the term used on Apple.

The second part is Sol's main argument if you haven't been following the blow by blow.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #139 of 141
Solipsism is right, and everyone who thinks the Recently Used Apps bar has anything to do with multitasking are wrong.

Here's how the user instructions could be stated for the device:

1. To run an app, tap its icon.
2. To run another app, tap the Home button and then tap another icon.
3. If you want to see a list of the apps that you have most recently used, so as to be able to quickly find a recently-used app, double-tap the Home button.
--Johnny
Reply
--Johnny
Reply
post #140 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy View Post

Solipsism is right, and everyone who thinks the Recently Used Apps bar has anything to do with multitasking are wrong.

Here's how the user instructions could be stated for the device:

1. To run an app, tap its icon.
2. To run another app, tap the Home button and then tap another icon.
3. If you want to see a list of the apps that you have most recently used, so as to be able to quickly find a recently-used app, double-tap the Home button.


It appears that you are correct. Although I have found Apple references to calling it the multitasking user interface in earlier documents, in the most recent documentation for iPad 2, they call it the 'recents list'.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/...user_guide.pdf

page 36

I do believe there is still some controversy and conflicting information based on various Apple documents posted over time and it does seem strange that if it is only a list of previously used apps why does the current app in use remove itself while active? Shouldn't it just go directly to the first position? Could it be that it is no longer in the background so it is not in the list? And if it is only a list, why do you have to remove an app from the list in order to stop its background process, such as Internet radio or iPod or turn by turn? And if it is just a list, why are music controls and the aspect lock in there? It may be called the recents list but by double tapping the home button you reveal considerably more functionality than just a list.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Reply
post #141 of 141
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

It appears that you are correct. Although I have found Apple references to calling it the multitasking user interface in earlier documents, in the most recent documentation for iPad 2, they call it the 'recents list'.

http://manuals.info.apple.com/en_US/...user_guide.pdf

page 36

I do believe there is still some controversy and conflicting information based on various Apple documents posted over time and it does seem strange that if it is only a list of previously used apps why does the current app in use remove itself while active?

It doesn't.
- if you directly double-click the Home button while app A is still on the screen, it does not appear in the RUA list. That's because all you need to do is tap the app itself, or double-tap the Home button again, to return to that app.

- if, however, you click Home, and THEN double-click Home to see the RUA list, your app will be right there at the left.
Quote:

Shouldn't it just go directly to the first position? Could it be that it is no longer in the background so it is not in the list? And if it is only a list, why do you have to remove an app from the list in order to stop its background process, such as Internet radio or iPod or turn by turn?

It should be very rare that you have to kill an app (which is what tapping the "X" does). It is not the recommended way of doing anything. The recommended way would be for the app itself to have a control that stopped playing the audio, or stopped doing turn by turn in the background. In case there is an app that doesn't provide that (a bug actually, or rather, a poorly-written app that escaped review process), then there is an emergency way to kill apps, just like command-option-escape is on the desktop on OS X.
Quote:

And if it is just a list, why are music controls and the aspect lock in there? It may be called the recents list but by double tapping the home button you reveal considerably more functionality than just a list.

The aspect lock and music controls are done that way so that you do not have to leave your current app to access them.
--Johnny
Reply
--Johnny
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • White iPhone video may show scrapped Exposé interface for iOS multitasking
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › White iPhone video may show scrapped Exposé interface for iOS multitasking