or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Android fans accuse Apple of copying Samsung first
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Android fans accuse Apple of copying Samsung first

post #1 of 304
Thread Starter 
Immediately after Apple filed suit against Samsung over patent and trade dress infringements, Android enthusiasts have countered that it was Apple that actually copied Samsung from the beginning.

The claim, distributed virally on message boards in the form of a graphic comparing the 2007 iPhone against the Samsung F700, is titled "LOL @ Apple: suing someone you stole the design from to being [sic] with," and portrays an early Samsung phone with a black front, rounded corners and grid of icons, all elements of the complaint by Apple which claims infringement upon its iPhone design by various Samsung products.

The graphic states the Samsung F700 was first shown at CEBIT in 2006, and was released in February 2007, while noting that the iPhone was first shown at Macworld in January 2007 and didn't go on sale until the end of June 2007.

However, the graphic is in error, as Samsung only mentioned plans for the new phone in 2006. It wasn't actually shown until February 2007 at the 3GSM World Congress, held a month after the iPhone's debut. It did not go on sale at that time.



What Samsung actually did

When Apple unveiled the original iPhone in January 2007, Samsung was actually selling a variety of smartphones that looked more like Nokia devices, with a four direction rocker navigation button, six or more buttons for handing calling features, and in most cases, a traditional set of physical number dialing buttons.

The F700 was rushed out to show after the iPhone's debut, and was regarded as an "answer to the iPhone" by reports of the day, one of which observed that it "looks awfully familiar."

However, the F700 also carried a number of notable features that Apple didn't offer until later, including support for 7.2Mbps HSDPA mobile networks (not available until the iPhone 3GS) and a 5 megapixel camera (unmatched until iPhone 4). If anything, it indicates that Apple faced serious technical hurdles in entering the mobile business in competition with much more experienced mobile manufacturers.

What Apple brought to the mobile business wasn't a copy of existing technology, but breakthroughs in original design aimed at usability, with features such as a truly useful mobile browser, tight integration with iPod and iTunes media sync, and a novel app model.



With its Galaxy line of mobile products, Samsung has copied not just the overall look of the iPhone, iPad and iPod touch, but went even further to add a "Touchwiz" layer to Android that makes its devices far more closely resemble Apple's products than other Android licensee have.

After the release of iPad 2, Samsung even publicly admitted needing to redesign its Galaxy Tab to more closely resemble Apple's product.

It was LG, not Samsung, who complained

After the iPhone's debut, it was LG, not Samsung, that complained Apple had copied its design. LG had actually demonstrated its own full-screen smartphone in the fall of 2006, and like the iPhone, it had a largely black, minimalist front. It was first to market with a capacitive touchscreen, the same type subsequently used by the iPhone.

Unlike the iPhone, LG's Prada phone built its user interface using Adobe Flash Lite, with a home screen featuring six round, monochrome icons and a separate menu bar. The phone was intended to sell through Prada stores, at $775.

After Apple unveiled the iPhone, LG's Woo-Young Kwak, who headed its Mobile Handset R&D Center, called a press conference and stated, "we consider that Apple copied the Prada phone after the design was unveiled when it was presented in the iF Design Award and won the prize in September 2006."

The company didn't file a lawsuit however. LG had already shown an affinity for Apple's designs, changing its LG Chocolate phone for the US market to resemble a classic iPod.

Two years later, LG delivered its GM730 phone running Windows Mobile 6.5, with a grid of colored icons above a home row of shortcuts, and rounded corners tipping a hat to the original iPhone. This year, the company is producing an Android-based Optimus X2, which appears closely pattered after last year's iPhone 4.

post #2 of 304
Quote:
Immediately after Apple filed suit against Samsung over patent and trade dress infringements, Android enthusiasts have countered that it was Apple that actually copied Samsung from the beginning.

Funny. I think you spend more time on Android sites than you do apple. I really think deep down inside DED, you love android.
post #3 of 304
Its fairly amazing the revisionist history being undertaken by Google and the Fandroids. I get a laugh out of these people saying Apple copied them when you can look at preliminary Android UI and hardware designs and see that Blackberry and Nokia were the intended copy victims. After Apple revealed their first iPhone, then Android quickly morphed into something else. Samsung obviously copied Apple. I reckon it will be up to a judge and jury to decide if and to what extent Samsung is liable for their infringements. I think it should be intuitively obvious to the most casual observer, but IANAL.
post #4 of 304
I'm pretty sure that if Samsung had stuck with the F700 interface, Apple wouldn't be suing them
post #5 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Funny. I think you spend more time on Android sites than you do apple. I really think deep down inside DED, you love android.

He loves the industry and facts, so yes, he reads a lot.
post #6 of 304
Oh but what about the Google antitrust that's going on in the EU right now? Surely they can do no evil.
post #7 of 304
Apple has been EXPOSED. Let's face the fact that technology is rife with unattributed cross-fertilization, stop suing each other, and build great products instead. Eh?
post #8 of 304
Quote:
"Suing someone you stole the design from to being with

These history revisionist fanboi's just ooooze brilliance.

It's a shame they've completely glossed over the fact that at the time of the F700's release, Apple had a far more sophisticated UI and a completely working product that was at least two years ahead of their soon-to-be competitors. They chose to debut it in advance of FEC approval, so they could announce it on their own time table. F700 was rushed to market, plain and simple.
post #9 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

I'm pretty sure that if Samsung had stuck with the F700 interface, Apple wouldn't be suing them

The funny thing is, this "article" hasn't run on most mainstream Android blogs, largely keeping to the forums.

So you're starting to write your screeds based on the postings of people on forums now DED?

And you can't honestly believe that they went from the pictures you linked to the f700 in a MONTH. Phone release cycles are a lot longer than that. Yes, Samsung reworked their tablet, but they started with an already existing product (the first version of the 10.1) and tweaked it. That's a far cry from designing an entirely new phone + UI like you're trying to imply with this post.

Is your next "article" going to be about what @avgjoecnsumr tweeted?

EDIT: And no, I'm not arguing that touchwiz doesn't borrow heavily from Samsung, or that Samsung aped the iphone design for some of their products. They did. But Apple also included devices like the EPIC 4g and Gem (running touchwiz but very different looking) and the Nexus S (not running touchwiz, and not very "iphone like" either. The image DED linked is making it's rounds because Apple is claiming look and feel based on the fact that the iphone has rounded corners and a black border around the screen. This image shows that those factors are not unique to the iphone. (you can see something similar on the Prada, which even DED said came first).
post #10 of 304
good catch on the actual timing of F700. and it did not go on sale until the Fall of 2007 as the Croix. the touch UI was quite primitive, much more like the early smartphones of 2006 and not much like the iPhone at all. except for the grid of icons on the home screen of the first prototype, which was revised somewhat later. but arranging icons in a grid of some sort was pretty standard for many years anyway. that's not the basis of Apple's claim.
post #11 of 304
Steve said at the keynote Apple was already working on the iPhone 3 years before it was introduced.
post #12 of 304
This is playground mud slinging. I'm surprised that even DED would stoop this low just to get a few more pageviews and ad dollars.
post #13 of 304
This should turn out interesting. Too bad I'm heading to bed now. 'night folks.
post #14 of 304
I've seen this phone mentioned too. It's worth tracking down some footage on YouTube to see just how far from the iPhone it was. I'm sure they were working on it long before the iPhone debuted. It shows very few signs of being inspired by the iPhone. The same goes for the Prada phone, which anticipated none of the iPhone's UI elements, although it was first to the market with a capacitive touchscreen. I'm sure LG gave up on the "Apple copied us" idea shortly after using an iPhone.
post #15 of 304
Let's see. Have we seen interfaces that had a grid of icons positioned above a horizontal row of commonly used ones before?

The desktop comes to mind. The only reason the phone looks different is the smaller screen size coupled with the optimal touch area limiting the number to about 4 across for the screen size most common on phones designed to be placed in pockets.

Where do we draw the line? Still, very good call on the fandroids being mis-informed.
post #16 of 304
The fandroids are right, the iPhone 1 to 3 design did copy something else that had been around for some time, they copied iPod Touch!
post #17 of 304
I can't believe I hadn't seen a picture of the LG Prada before. The resemblance to the original iPhone is minimal at best. It's hard to even lend plausibility to the suggestion that Apple copied the Prada, I don't know if it's possible to go from seeing the Prada to displaying a moderately functional but finalized visual design "knockoff" in four months and then full production in nine months.
post #18 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1 View Post

Steve said at the keynote Apple was already working on the iPhone 3 years before it was introduced.

They more than likely were. Developing a new product and bringing it to market takes time. Which makes DED's claim that Samsung "Copied" Apples design in less than 30 days absurd.

Look at the design:

You want a Touchscreen based interface, so obviously you'll want to limit the number of buttons/put them on a slide out keyboard. Touchscreen interfaces will have to be larger than traditional screens, both because of increased content and because a finger is a lot less accurate than navigating with a wheel.

Touchscreens, particularly capacitive ones, require a border around them for the screen to function.

The Standard Cellphone shape (since it's inception) is that it will be taller than it is wide. Companies try the square phone thing (LG LOTUS) but it has limited appeal. 90%+ of phones are rectangular. A majority of phones are also black.

There really are only so many ways you can design a touch screen phone. Sure, you can add a ton of buttons to it if you want a keyboard on the front, but those are just extra features.

Remember, by this time, the "Razr" craze was in full swing, and thin was in. Companies were looking to cut down on as much bulk as they could, and customers had shown that they were willing to trade functionality to the "cool" factor of having a slim device.

Here is another phone that Samsung ANNOUNCED in 2006:
http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f500-1806.php

Notice, black phone, rounded corners, metal band around the side as an accent. The border along the top and bottom is larger than that of the side.

I'm not implying that Apple copied Samsung. I don't think they did. Again, there is only so many ways you can make a cellphone. Apple DOES have a case with touchwiz (especially the icons). But unlike what DED and others are trying to imply, it's highly unlikely the F700 was going to look like those other phones he linked. Did they tweak it after the iphone announcement? Maybe. But they started off with a design that was more than likely very similar.
post #19 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by martimus3060 View Post

Its fairly amazing the revisionist history being undertaken by Google and the Fandroids.

It's amazing and worrying given Google can control history. Try Googling Tiananmen Square when you're in China and see the results you don't get.

Don't be evil my arse.
post #20 of 304
This is funny since ios is a blatant rip-off of Palm OS which has been the same since the 90's>
post #21 of 304
LG introduced the Prada late 2006. So only took Apple a couple months of R&D and design to copy the Prada?
post #22 of 304
Get some rest, Dan.
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #23 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm5150 View Post

LG introduced the Prada late 2006. So only took Apple a couple months of R&D and design to copy the Prada?

DED is implying that Samsung copied Apple in under a month. So if Samsung could do that, Apple could copy LG.

(Note, I think the whole "Copy" claim in both cases is stupid)
post #24 of 304
It's a pretty sad time when you can spread lies that violate even the sequence of events in time and make it stick. And make no mistakethis will stick in the public mind. We already have the usual suspects on this thread to drive home the message. It doesn't matter what happened before what. Apple can steal either forwards or backwards in time!

This is a tried-and-true technique and it has never failed yet. Reagan inherited a $900 billion national debt, and he and Bush ran it up to $7 trillion. What's to blame? The "Carter Deficit." They still use this term every day. The global economic collapse that happened long before the 2008 election? The "Obama recession." If something reflects badly on someone you don't like, such niceties as causality or reason fly out the window. This meme will stick like glue, and if you try to point out the facts, you're nothing but a "brainwashed Apple fanboi!"
post #25 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dueces View Post

This is funny since ios is a blatant rip-off of Palm OS which has been the same since the 90's>

This is funny since Palm OS is a blatant rip-off of Newton OS which has been the same since the 90's>

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #26 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

I'm pretty sure that if Samsung had stuck with the F700 interface, Apple wouldn't be suing them

Right?!
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #27 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dueces View Post

This is funny since ios is a blatant rip-off of Palm OS which has been the same since the 90s

Not so fast
post #28 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

DED is implying that Samsung copied Apple in under a month. So if Samsung could do that, Apple could copy LG.

(Note, I think the whole "Copy" claim in both cases is stupid)

1) Hes stating the claim the F700 demo predates the iPhone is patently false.

2) Hes showing a trend that Samsung has worked to copy the iPhone since its debut. As rhyde states, if Samsung had stuck with F700 UI there would be no lawsuit for copying a look and feel. Its the TouchWiz that is a blatant copy to the point of looking like a bad Chinese knockoff.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #29 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac-sochist View Post

It's a pretty sad time when you can spread lies that violate even the sequence of events in time and make it stick. And make no mistakethis will stick in the public mind. We already have the usual suspects on this thread to drive home the message. It doesn't matter what happened before what. Apple can steal either forwards or backwards in time!

This is a tried-and-true technique and it has never failed yet. Reagan inherited a $900 billion national debt, and he and Bush ran it up to $7 trillion. What's to blame? The "Carter Deficit." They still use this term every day. The global economic collapse that happened long before the 2008 election? The "Obama recession." If something reflects badly on someone you don't like, such niceties as causality or reason fly out the window. This meme will stick like glue, and if you try to point out the facts, you're nothing but a "brainwashed Apple fanboi!"

So you're implying that a company created a wholly new Phone AND OS in under a month? (what DED is implying).

This meme would've most likely faded away. But because DED posted it here like it was actual news, it won't. NONE of the major android blogs posted this. It was relegated to forums (something that a majority of consumers don't read, much less post on). But now it's on the front page of a Apple blog, one that, for whatever reason, countless other blogs repost stories from.

Did samsung tweak the phone after the announcement? Maybe. But to imply they they created it out of thin air in a MONTH is stupid.
post #30 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by sprockkets View Post

Funny. I think you spend more time on Android sites than you do apple. I really think deep down inside DED, you love android.

Funny, you seem to post comments on every DED article... often the first to do so. I really think deep down inside, you love DED.

You're also really annoying -- at least some of the other fandroids occasionally have something constructive to add to the discussion. Not you, though. I'm blocking you -- congrats, you're the first.
post #31 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) He’s stating the claim the F700 demo predates the iPhone is patently false.

2) He’s showing a trend that Samsung has worked to copy the iPhone since its debut. As rhyde states, if Samsung had stuck with F700 UI there would be no lawsuit for copying a look and feel. It’s the TouchWiz that is a blatant copy to the point of looking like a bad Chinese knockoff.

1. He's stating a claim made on FORUMS ONLINE. OMG. Is he going to debunk something from the weekly world news next?

And yes, he is claiming that Samsung copied the design for it from the iphone. Again, how can he expect a company to copy a phone design AND UI in under a month?

2. If you read my previous comment, you'd see that I agree apple has a case with the Touchwiz related lawsuits.

But Apple's also suing for the DESIGN. Which phones like the Prada show is something that other's were working on as well (for the record, I don't think Apple copied LG either, there are only so many ways you can make a touch screen centric device).

Three points of apple's lawsuit are:
-Rounded corners
-A border around the screen that is thicker at the top and bottom (but equal) and thinner on the sides (but the sides are equal)
-A aluminum band around the side of the phone.

Those three things are present here, a phone announced (and shown) in December of 2006:

http://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_f500-1806.php (With the exception of the top and bottom bezel since this had a normal dialpad/music controls)

Again, there's only so many ways you can design a touchscreen specific phone.

Apple DOES have a case when it comes to Touchwiz (specifically icons)
The DO have a case for phones like the Vibrant for design

But they're also including the NexusS (Stock Android) Transform (almost stock android, with a keyboard) the Gem (LOL) for the look and feel.
post #32 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Greg] View Post

Funny, you seem to post comments on every DED article... often the first to do so. I really think deep down inside, you love DED.

LOL I love it!
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #33 of 304
I'm curious, did TV manufacturers sue each other for all using a giant screen that displayed images with a power, channel and volume buttons along the bottom?

I mean, we're talking about a phone, how many frickin' forms factor can you possible make? Of Course they are going to start looking alike...
post #34 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Apple has been EXPOSED. Let's face the fact that technology is rife with unattributed cross-fertilization, stop suing each other, and build great products instead. Eh?

So you kinda read the parts you wanted to believe, and ignored the rest, huh? Yeah. Let's follow THIS guy.
post #35 of 304
As noted by others above, the iPod touch had already been around awhile (the first gen. iPhone was virtually identical in form factor to it). The Samsung says 'Music Player' across the top - if that wasn't a total rip-off of the iPod, I don't know what is. Case closed. I would love it if someone made a compelling competing device that wasn't an Apple clone, but so far, no such luck.
post #36 of 304
Yep I remember the LG Prada. It was one of the first examples used to say that the iPhone was no big deal when it was first announced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I can't believe I hadn't seen a picture of the LG Prada before. The resemblance to the original iPhone is minimal at best. It's hard to even lend plausibility to the suggestion that Apple copied the Prada, I don't know if it's possible to go from seeing the Prada to displaying a moderately functional but finalized visual design "knockoff" in four months and then full production in nine months.
post #37 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by [Greg] View Post

Funny, you seem to post comments on every DED article... often the first to do so. I really think deep down inside, you love DED.

Funny, I don't post on every article he does, just the ones where he is always wrong.

Uh oh, another idiot who uses the stawman argument that I like android just because I called out DED who made more of an issue of the samsung F700 than actual fandroids did.

Quote:
You're also really annoying -- at least some of the other fandroids occasionally have something constructive to add to the discussion. Not you, though. I'm blocking you -- congrats, you're the first.

I'm so glad I was your first.
post #38 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) He’s stating the claim the F700 demo predates the iPhone is patently false.

2) He’s showing a trend that Samsung has worked to copy the iPhone since its debut. As rhyde states, if Samsung had stuck with F700 UI there would be no lawsuit for copying a look and feel. It’s the TouchWiz that is a blatant copy to the point of looking like a bad Chinese knockoff.

Big deal on the UI. Apple patented the design of the phone. They still would have sued. That and because Steve Jobs is a whiny bitch.
post #39 of 304
What about when other companies sue Apple. Should also chalk it up to cross-fertalization and move on with business? You have to understand that to keep a patent you have to protect it - otherwise you loose it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by xSamplex View Post

Apple has been EXPOSED. Let's face the fact that technology is rife with unattributed cross-fertilization, stop suing each other, and build great products instead. Eh?
post #40 of 304
Quote:
Originally Posted by jinglesthula View Post

Let's see. Have we seen interfaces that had a grid of icons positioned above a horizontal row of commonly used ones before?

The desktop comes to mind. The only reason the phone looks different is the smaller screen size coupled with the optimal touch area limiting the number to about 4 across for the screen size most common on phones designed to be placed in pockets.

Where do we draw the line? Still, very good call on the fandroids being mis-informed.

yes, grids are obvious. and that's about as much similarity as there is between the "early" samsung phone and the iphone.

but there's a difference between grids of icons and grids of colored icons on a black background with white text under each icon and a series of white dots to indicate which of a series of horizontally distributed screens the user is on. it's the difference between "ooh that's a cool idea. we need to make a similar, competing product" and "ooh that's a cool idea. let's make one and put our logo on it! ...oh i guess we should move the white dots to the top or something, to make it look like a new idea."
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Android fans accuse Apple of copying Samsung first