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Whee! Another major breakthrough in cloning tech

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1676240.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1676240.stm</a>



"Life begins at fertilization and that's why we it's wrong to create embryos to murder for their stem cells." That's the typical rhetoric of anti-abortion, anti-science people. Well, that argument now gets blown to shit.

BEHOLD! VIRGIN EMBYROS! *No sperm necessary.

So, if scientists can now coax eggs to spontaneously divide and then harvest stem cells from the "virgin embryos", can we finally move forward as a society and embrace life-saving stem cell research without having the religious conservatives trying to keep us firmly planted in the dark ages?

Will all of you who opposed stem cell research on the basis that it destroyed fertilized embryos now change your minds?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #2 of 37
This is a very old technique that was originally pioneered on the Virgin Mary.
post #3 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath:
<strong>This is a very old technique that was originally pioneered on the Virgin Mary.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Jesus isn't so special anymore.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #4 of 37
There is no ban on stem cell research.
post #5 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>There is no ban on stem cell research.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course not...Bush just wants to ban the other methods of obtaining stem cells...Thankfully this method looks promising.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #6 of 37
Of course. If this method will cause the least friction, then it should be exploited so we can move on and reap the benefits of SC research. Personally, I am anxiously awaiting to see the benfits.
post #7 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

Of course not...Bush just wants to ban the other methods of obtaining stem cells...Thankfully this method looks promising.</strong><hr></blockquote>

What makes you say that? Has he sponsored a bill to ban stem cell research?
post #8 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>

What makes you say that? Has he sponsored a bill to ban stem cell research?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you completely obtuse and ignorant of world events? Quit opening your mouth when you know nothing about what's going on.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1677327.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1677327.stm</a>

Bush completely disapproves of saving lives by harvesting stem cells.

[ 11-26-2002: Message edited by: BR ]</p>

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #9 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

Jesus isn't so special anymore.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Let me know when you get a child that is the defacto son of God out of this. Or at least when you get a living, healthy child out of this.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #10 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

Let me know when you get a child that is the defacto son of God out of this. Or at least when you get a living, healthy child out of this. </strong><hr></blockquote>

We don't want living healthy children out of this. We want stem cells. Are you opposed? No fertilization necessary!

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #11 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

We don't want living healthy children out of this. We want stem cells. Are you opposed? No fertilization necessary!</strong><hr></blockquote>

The post was in reply to your: Jesus isn't so special anymore.

Keep it in context.

As far as the rest of the topic is concerned, I have still not made up my mind. Although riding the fence is starting to give me a wedgie...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #12 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

The post was in reply to your: Jesus isn't so special anymore. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Virgin births are overrated. It's not really such a big deal anymore.

Virgin births, now 100% god free!


[quote]I'm riding the fence.<hr></blockquote>
The argument that life is created when sperm meets egg and thus destroying embryos is destroying life is NULLIFIED. Game over. Victory for mankind.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #13 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>Virgin births are overrated. It's not really such a big deal anymore.

Virgin births, now 100% god free!

and

The argument that life is created when sperm meets egg and thus destroying embryos is destroying life is NULLIFIED. Game over. Victory for mankind.</strong><hr></blockquote>

BR, your argument seems to be Man = God. If so that is really Sad
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #14 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

BR, your argument seems to be Man = God. If so that is really Sad </strong><hr></blockquote>

No, I'm joking about the virgin birth stuff. It is utterly hilarious and vindicating because people held it on such a high freakin' pedestal. It's not all that special apparently. A few horomones and ZIING!


I am being serious though about the argument against harvesting stem cells being blown out of the water.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #15 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

No, I'm joking about the virgin birth stuff. It is utterly hilarious and vindicating because people held it on such a high freakin' pedestal. It's not all that special apparently. A few horomones and ZIING!


I am being serious though about the argument against harvesting stem cells being blown out of the water.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Joking. I see.

Umm, virgin births are no big deal now because of modern medicine. However, how many virigns give birth without the involvement of modern medicine now, and over the time of history. Only 1 documented case. Pretty special still if you ask me.

As far as the stem cell harvesting, don't push me, I am making up my own mind. If you do not recall I had not made a decision one way or the other before, I was merely playing devils advocate as none else would.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #16 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

Are you completely obtuse and ignorant of world events? Quit opening your mouth when you know nothing about what's going on.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1677327.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1677327.stm</a>

Bush completely disapproves of saving lives by harvesting stem cells.

[ 11-26-2002: Message edited by: BR ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

I can't ask a ****ing question? **** you.
post #17 of 37
Don't ride that fence very hard! If you do you may cause permanent damage, and become forced to support this methodology no matter what.
post #18 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by ColanderOfDeath:
<strong>Don't ride that fence very hard! If you do you may cause permanent damage, and become forced to support this methodology no matter what.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I have 2 kids already, no worries here.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #19 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

Joking. I see.

Umm, virgin births are no big deal now because of modern medicine. However, how many virigns give birth without the involvement of modern medicine now, and over the time of history. Only 1 documented case. Pretty special still if you ask me.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I question the validity of that "documentation."

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #20 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

I have 2 kids already, no worries here.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's a scary thought.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #21 of 37
I think this new research is pretty fascinating... I've never been against this sort of research or practice, just against the idea of killing one person flippantly to save another. I always thought it was unfair/unjust to the unborn. But now that the 'killing' portion of that process has been dealt with, I'm excited to see where it can go. At the same time lets hope this closes a bit of the rift between the lifers and choicers... We may not agree on other things, but we can certainly both see the benifits of this new method.
I'm perfectly humble and neither are you.
-Dogwood
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I'm perfectly humble and neither are you.
-Dogwood
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post #22 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

That's a scary thought.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Respecfully sir, BITE ME.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #23 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong><a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1676240.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1676240.stm</a>



"Life begins at fertilization and that's why we it's wrong to create embryos to murder for their stem cells." That's the typical rhetoric of anti-abortion, anti-science people. Well, that argument now gets blown to shit.
[snip]
Will all of you who opposed stem cell research on the basis that it destroyed fertilized embryos now change your minds?</strong><hr></blockquote>

BR, you are trumpeting that there is no life formed here, and yet the documentation you supply states:

Route A: Embryonic Stem Cells used for Medical Purposes
Route B: In theory, blastocyst could be reimplanted to become normal birth.

In light of Route B existing, my position remains unchaged.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
Reply
post #24 of 37
[quote]Respecfully sir, BITE ME.<hr></blockquote>

There you go again. You seem bound and determined to suffer groinal agony.
post #25 of 37
What do I see in this thread?

I see BR not so much happy about the tech mentioned.

I rather see BR as trying to create some kind of non-issue from his political and world view standpoint.

BR thinks he has something on a Believer in Jesus who happens to respect human life.

I would say BR is mistaken. I believe there is a way this tech can be done in a "humane" way.

I suppose BR really does not understand or believe in such a concept as "humane"

Oh well...

Fellowship

[ 11-26-2002: Message edited by: FellowshipChurch iBook ]</p>
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #26 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>
Are you completely obtuse and ignorant of world events? Quit opening your mouth when you know nothing about what's going on.

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1677327.stm" target="_blank">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/1677327.stm</a>

Bush completely disapproves of saving lives by harvesting stem cells.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Are you completely obtuse and unable to make even the simplest of distinctions? Bush has not proposed a ban on stem cell research.
shooby doo, shooby doo
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shooby doo, shooby doo
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post #27 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by spaceman_spiff:
<strong>

Are you completely obtuse and unable to make even the simplest of distinctions? Bush has not proposed a ban on stem cell research.</strong><hr></blockquote>

No, like I said before, he proposes banning the (currently) best methods of obtaining the stem cells, effectively CRIPPLING the research.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #28 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by NoahJ:
<strong>

BR, you are trumpeting that there is no life formed here, and yet the documentation you supply states:

Route A: Embryonic Stem Cells used for Medical Purposes
Route B: In theory, blastocyst could be reimplanted to become normal birth.

In light of Route B existing, my position remains unchaged.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I am saying that there is no conception. There iz no zygote.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #29 of 37
Here's another "major breakthrough" in stem cell research.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/27/science/27CELL.html" target="_blank">Stem Cell Mixing May Form a Human-Mouse Hybrid</a>

Brave New World huh?
post #30 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>Here's another "major breakthrough" in stem cell research.

<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/27/science/27CELL.html" target="_blank">Stem Cell Mixing May Form a Human-Mouse Hybrid</a>

Brave New World huh?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not signing up with the new york times..I know it's free reg but I refuse to do so. Could you please post the full text?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #31 of 37
[quote]I suppose BR really does not understand or believe in such a concept as "humane" <hr></blockquote>
Hey I know we can wait and let god cure our illness that he as so kindly given us in the first place... <img src="graemlins/oyvey.gif" border="0" alt="[No]" />

[ 11-26-2002: Message edited by: Mount_my_floppy ]</p>
''i'm an extremist, i have to deal with my own extreme personality and i walk the fine line of wanting to die and wanting to be the ruler of all.''
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''i'm an extremist, i have to deal with my own extreme personality and i walk the fine line of wanting to die and wanting to be the ruler of all.''
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post #32 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>

I'm not signing up with the new york times..I know it's free reg but I refuse to do so. Could you please post the full text?</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think the headline says it all. Use my email to register if you want.

null@dev.com

Pick any username you want
post #33 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>

I think the headline says it all. Use my email to register if you want.

null@dev.com

Pick any username you want </strong><hr></blockquote>
Or you could not be an ass and just post the article.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #34 of 37
[quote]Originally posted by BR:
<strong>
Or you could not be an ass and just post the article.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I'm not being an ass. I'm tell you that you can give them what ever email you want. I gave them "null@dev.com". That's the email I give to every over nosey web site.
post #35 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Scott:
<strong>

I'm not being an ass. I'm tell you that you can give them what ever email you want. I gave them "null@dev.com". That's the email I give to every over nosey web site.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You have already registered. Just post the damn thing.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #36 of 37
[quote]That's a scary thought.<hr></blockquote>

actually, what's scary to me is that someone with such a one track mind is actually able to function long enough to post all this garbage.

how do you walk down the street without exploding into raving madness at the sight of a church, or a cross on someone's neck.

as for you going around and calling someone an ass, that's rich.
post #37 of 37
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>

actually, what's scary to me is that someone with such a one track mind is actually able to function long enough to post all this garbage.

how do you walk down the street without exploding into raving madness at the sight of a church, or a cross on someone's neck.

as for you going around and calling someone an ass, that's rich.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Thanks for providing me a healthy hearty laugh this morning.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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