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Researchers raise privacy concerns over location tracking in Apple's iOS 4 - Page 3

post #81 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

If it is a nefarious endeavor then I'd have expected them to encrypt the file so they wouldn't get caught tracking their flock.

More than likely it was just a random bit of code that didn't get removed/finished before the OS shipped.

Nothing nefarious, just human.
post #82 of 138
The funny thing is that this data has been collected and stored by cellcoms for years, the difference is that it is only accessible to law enforcement with a warrant. If I wanted this data for what ever reason for my wife's cell I couldn't get it. Now I can, don't need a warrant and took a whole 2 mins to get.
post #83 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno;

More than likely it was just a random bit of code that didn't get removed/finished before the OS shipped.

Nothing nefarious, just human.

Then why store it, back it up and put it in it's own file? Talk about a very organized bit of random code.
post #84 of 138
While I doubt this tracking file is an issue of being "random code", I also am not concerned in the least. My guess is that this is how Apple tracks signal/service failures. Makes perfect sense to do this, and I'm sure most if not all cell phones do this.

Of course as some here have said, the issue is with the non-encryption of said file. Interestingly, we are only hearing about Apple, but what about all these other cell phone companies? Maybe some have encrypted this file, and maybe some haven't, but I don't think anyone here knows which companies fall where on that scale. Seems a bit premature to start pointing fingers.

But more importantly...there seems to be some question over how accurate this file actually is. I can say that even if it gives exact locations at 100% accuracy within 10 inches of where I was for the last 10 years, I really don't care. I cannot think of a single place that I have been in my life where I would need to keep that location private. Not a single one. Of course if I had ever been involved in an extra-marital affair or committed any crimes (besides speeding) then maybe I would think differently. As it stands now, I don't care.
post #85 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevetim View Post

This should concern us all. It is negligence on Apples part for failing to inform users that their location is being tracked and logged. It is also bad that they are not securely storing that information. This needs to be explained by Apple ASAP.

Both true. No way to defend this. NONE. This should be opt IN. As in, it asks you if you want to turn it on. Off by default. Also should be encrypted. Someone posted that you can't even turn it off. Yikes. Apple every since Jobs came back is seriously creepy. I honestly trust Google more. And I don't really trust Google. Also I was going to defend Obama. But he's actually creeping me out lately too, with his betrayal of whistle-blowers, Big Brother DoJ, etc. He probably has dinner with Bush and Cheney. It's all f'd. It's a one-way street though folks, there's no escaping it. Unless you live off the grid. But on the plus side, you can do Facebook on the elevator or waiting at the dentist.
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post #86 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

.. I cannot think of a single place that I have been in my life where I would need to keep that location private. Not a single one. Of course if I had ever been involved in an extra-marital affair or committed any crimes (besides speeding) then maybe I would think differently. As it stands now, I don't care.

You've probably never been stalked or had to worry about an abusive spouse tracking you down, or a particular criminal element finding witness, but other people do.
post #87 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

You've probably never been stalked or had to worry about an abusive spouse tracking you down, or a particular criminal element finding witness, but other people do.

You are correct. I have never had to deal with the things you mention, and this is a contributing factor of why I don't care. Not only that, but I am just fine if Apple never encrypts this file.
post #88 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mode View Post

Last straw for me. Sold.
I don't invest in unethical stocks.


All right .... two more shares for sale ! ....
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post #89 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

You've probably never been stalked or had to worry about an abusive spouse tracking you down, or a particular criminal element finding witness, but other people do.

Something that occurred to me regarding your scenarios...

So for a stalker/abusive spouse/criminal element to have this location information, they would basically be stealing your phone or computer, or otherwise accessing them without permission. Why would they do this? It's only going to tell them where you have been, and not where you are, so I don't see the point.

It seems to me that if they can get to your phone and/or computer, then they can much more easily get to you instead. And I would think this would be their primary goal, right? I mean what do they care if you went to Pizza Hut on March 3?
post #90 of 138
Lawsuits here we go.

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post #91 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Something that occurred to me regarding your scenarios...

So for a stalker/abusive spouse/criminal element to have this location information, they would basically be stealing your phone or computer, or otherwise accessing them without permission. Why would they do this? It's only going to tell them where you have been, and not where you are, so I don't see the point.

It seems to me that if they can get to your phone and/or computer, then they can much more easily get to you instead. And I would think this would be their primary goal, right? I mean what do they care if you went to Pizza Hut on March 3?


Well my stalker would know that I have spent three days a week in Denver and 4 days a week home for the past few months. They would know where I go routinely in both places. So umm yeah might give them a leg up on figuring out where I am right now. Or at least finding my iOS Devices

Did I mention how much I thought this was a non-story last year and now just think it is kind of cool because there is a neat program. (Although it could be snappier).
post #92 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

It's a new MobileMe service called: Find My girlFriend!

More like "Find me a girlfriend"
post #93 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

Something that occurred to me regarding your scenarios...

So for a stalker/abusive spouse/criminal element to have this location information, they would basically be stealing your phone or computer, or otherwise accessing them without permission. Why would they do this? It's only going to tell them where you have been, and not where you are, so I don't see the point.

It seems to me that if they can get to your phone and/or computer, then they can much more easily get to you instead. And I would think this would be their primary goal, right? I mean what do they care if you went to Pizza Hut on March 3?

Brick through window, ipad gone. Most people visit a place more than once. Knowing where people have been will tell you where they are likely to go again—useful info for merchants, the po po, and criminals. At the least, a company secretly tracking its customers whereabouts comes with a pretty high built in "creepy" quotient. Do you really want a bald, black T-shirt wearin' aging, ailing, wealthy hipster all up in yo bidniz? If Stevie knows where you are, he knows where he can find a healthy pink liver or kidney if he needs one in a pinch and knows you have a compatible blood type.
post #94 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by EDemerzel View Post

Let us just review the facts for a minute:
  • Zero indication that this information is being sent anywhere including to Apple.
  • Getting this file would require access to your phone or a computer that you have sync'd to.
  • The gathering of this information has already been disclosed by Apple.

Now maybe apple could have encrypted this file, but once again it isn't being transmitted.

If you are worried about your computer that you are sync'd to then encrypt your backup. It is an option in iTunes.

This is pathetic. Someone violates your privacy and you are ok because there is no indication that the information is being sent anywhere?. Are you fucking serious?. Perhaps you wouldn't mind if i tap your phone calls if i promise it's not being sent anywhere. Or maybe you wouldn't mind if i put a keystroke logging device on your machine if i promise that there will be no indication that the data file created with all your passwords is not being sent anywhere, including to me.

The gathering of this information has already been disclosed by Apple?.. bullshit!!. Not when apple fans have been all over google privacy practices. I personally know of someone who boasted that he would never buy a google phone due to privacy concerns.. you telling me this person knew that Apple was collecting this info?.. Apple disclosed this?.. to who?.. you and your pet?.
post #95 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

You are correct. I have never had to deal with the things you mention, and this is a contributing factor of why I don't care. Not only that, but I am just fine if Apple never encrypts this file.

Ok, we get you are a rabid apple fan.. you do know you can still love steve jobs without making dumb statements right?. You don't care that someone is tracking your movements?. really?. Can you locate the file and send it to me?.. since you don't mind.. in fact, for everyone on this forum that is ok with this, send me the data file. Hey, if you don't mind apple secretly collecting this info, you wouldn't mind giving it to me.
post #96 of 138
Personally, I'm kinda bummed that this app that they released has been limited in a few ways. I understand their reasoning, but I'd love to have the option to view the animation with frames by the hour instead of by the week. I find it quite fascinating.
post #97 of 138
OH MY GOD! My own data is being stored on my own devices, and only on my own devices? What ever will I do?
post #98 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Ok, we get you are a rabid apple fan.. you do know you can still love steve jobs without making dumb statements right?. You don't care that someone is tracking your movements?. really?. Can you locate the file and send it to me?.. since you don't mind.. in fact, for everyone on this forum that is ok with this, send me the data file. Hey, if you don't mind apple secretly collecting this info, you wouldn't mind giving it to me.

Oh ye of low intellectual ability! Your own location data is being collected on your own device! Period. (BTW, my camera does that too with geotagging.) As to collecting your location data and not having it on your device, guess what moron? Your cellular carrier does that. And provides that data to the US govt when ordered to. So take your head out of your butt.
post #99 of 138
It looks like Apple were beaten to it ...

http://www.theonion.com/video/cias-f...cys-cos,19753/

post #100 of 138
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post #101 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Oh ye of low intellectual ability! Your own location data is being collected on your own device! Period. (BTW, my camera does that too with geotagging.) As to collecting your location data and not having it on your device, guess what moron? Your cellular carrier does that. And provides that data to the US govt when ordered to. So take your head out of your butt.

Low intellectual ability?

When your own location data collecting phone is stolen or lost, your own location collecting data goes with it, then voila! Your own location data is now in someone else's hand. N'est-ce pas? Well in yet another persons hands, in addition to Apple's.

You should be able to decide what, who, and how information that tracks your location is used or given to on principle, if not practicality. Wouldn't you at least like the admission that such data is being collected buried somewhere in the tiny, tiny fine print of documentation that comes with the device so they can at least pretend that you agreed to it? For some reason, the phrases, "I'll only put it in a little way, then I'll pull it right out. I promise." and "Congratulations, it's a boy!" come to mind.

I believe I read that you need a warrant of some kind to get someone's cellular carrier tracking data. Do you think people who steal cell phones with the intent of using location data for nefarious purposes list "nefarious purposes" when they fill out an application for a warrant, because thieves ALWAYS get permission from a judge before they use your stolen tracking data, so they have to put something down, right?
post #102 of 138
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post #103 of 138
Woke up to the alarmist headline on the website of our local daily broadsheet, expected the worst. Turns out to be a storm in a teacup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EDemerzel View Post

Let us just review the facts for a minute:
  • Zero indication that this information is being sent anywhere including to Apple.
  • Getting this file would require access to your phone or a computer that you have sync'd to.
  • The gathering of this information has already been disclosed by Apple.

Now maybe apple could have encrypted this file, but once again it isn't being transmitted.

If you are worried about your computer that you are sync'd to then encrypt your backup. It is an option in iTunes.

Exactly. To be honest I assumed there would be location tracking on the phone, and as long as it's not being sent to anyone, I'm not worried.
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post #104 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

This is pathetic. Someone violates your privacy and you are ok because there is no indication that the information is being sent anywhere?. Are you fucking serious?. Perhaps you wouldn't mind if i tap your phone calls if i promise it's not being sent anywhere. Or maybe you wouldn't mind if i put a keystroke logging device on your machine if i promise that there will be no indication that the data file created with all your passwords is not being sent anywhere, including to me.

The gathering of this information has already been disclosed by Apple?.. bullshit!!. Not when apple fans have been all over google privacy practices. I personally know of someone who boasted that he would never buy a google phone due to privacy concerns.. you telling me this person knew that Apple was collecting this info?.. Apple disclosed this?.. to who?.. you and your pet?.


LOL Wow so much hate from someone that I don't know. I usually only generate that from people that love me!

I actually was serious. This is not the end of the world some people like yourself make it out to be. I'm sorry that you can't "Google" and find where they talk about the data they collect last year. This information was included. Did they specifically say what file that information was collected in? No. Why? Because releasing that information would be stupid and set people up for issues that these two have done be not only releasing this information and not a general statement that it was being tracked but also an application that can read this information.

You really ought to research before jumping to conclusions. Now do I think that Apple is incorrect in what they have done? Yes absolutely. The file should have been encrypted. I don't think anyone is saying different. Hopefully Apple will fix that in sooner rather than later release.

Before you try to accuse me of being an apple fanboi or whatever I will say that while I have used Apple products for years I also use PCs and and Android devices. I like all of them for different reasons and certainly not simply drinking the Apple koolaid. I simply believe this not be be the huge issue that you seem to.
post #105 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

When other companies make mistakes that involve privacy the rules here require that we call them "evil".

Sure, it's just a simple error, anyone can make a mistake.

But consider this report at Apple Insider from July 2010:
http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...s_privacy.html

So Apple made explicit reference to this last year, but just forgot to do anything about it in the 9 months since?

Here in the Apple Insider forums the local custom is clear: two companies, two standards.

I don't call them evil. The only company I consider "Evil" when it comes to data is Facebook. At least for the moment.
post #106 of 138
CSI NY are always getting this sort of data from car GPS systems ...
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post #107 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by GMHut View Post

Brick through window, ipad gone. Most people visit a place more than once. Knowing where people have been will tell you where they are likely to go againuseful info for merchants, the po po, and criminals. At the least, a company secretly tracking its customers whereabouts comes with a pretty high built in "creepy" quotient. Do you really want a bald, black T-shirt wearin' aging, ailing, wealthy hipster all up in yo bidniz? If Stevie knows where you are, he knows where he can find a healthy pink liver or kidney if he needs one in a pinch and knows you have a compatible blood type.

That is hilarious , if steve needs an organ from me, he knows he need only ask.


As for Apple secretly tracking me, I have always been under the impression that all cell phones do this, so it isn't new. You are always connected (except when there is no signal), and your phone is always pinging the system. Of course they know where you are. This isn't specific to Apple or the iPhone. And I am always seeing shows (non-fiction, documentary style) that are depicting crime stories and how they track the cell phone to rescue the abducted woman...or something to that effect. Or finding people lost and stranded in the mountains.
post #108 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

How confident are you that this file cannot be accessed by any of the apps you've downloaded?

Confident? I think you missed my point. I am not arguing that it is inaccessible or secure. I could care less if anyone knows where I was last Tuesday, or last November, or in 1997. This knowledge isn't going to do anyone any good. Again unless I was committing a crime, then the police could use it to their benefit. Since I am clean, I don't have anything to worry about.
post #109 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by wnurse View Post

Ok, we get you are a rabid apple fan.. you do know you can still love steve jobs without making dumb statements right?. You don't care that someone is tracking your movements?. really?. Can you locate the file and send it to me?.. since you don't mind.. in fact, for everyone on this forum that is ok with this, send me the data file. Hey, if you don't mind apple secretly collecting this info, you wouldn't mind giving it to me.

Correction...

If someone goes to the hassle of stealing my phone, or hacking into it Mission: Impossible style to get this secret yet unencrypted location file, which is extremely silly, then the part that I don't care about is them knowing where I have been since I bought the phone. This file doesn't allow them to track me in the present. It would only tell them where i was in the past. Who cares about the past? It doesn't tell them my social security number, or my bank balance. Why would I care that they can figure out that I was at the Bowling Alley last Saturday? And more importantly, why would they go to all this trouble, and break laws to get this info? If they can figure out a way to do all this, get away with it, and use this past location info against me somehow, then more power to them.
post #110 of 138
You all think this story was eye opening? Better read THIS!:

"Cops Use Mobile Scanner To Steal Cellphone Data From Innocent Americans"

Video:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/cops-use...americans.html

"The high-tech device works with 3000 different phone models and can bypass passwords to process “Complete extraction of existing, hidden, and deleted phone data, including call history, text messages, contacts, images, and geotags,” according to CelleBrite, the company behind the device. “The Physical Analyzer allows visualization of both existing and deleted locations on Google Earth. In addition, location information from GPS devices and image geotags can be mapped on Google Maps.”

“A US Department of Justice test of the CelleBrite UFED used by Michigan police found the device could grab all of the photos and video off of an iPhone within one-and-a-half minutes,” reports TheNewspaper.com."
[continued]

Judge Andrew Napolitano covered this on his show Freedom Watch tonight too! Video:

http://usaguns.net/patriot/pg/videos...merica-4202011
post #111 of 138
I'm just gonna throw something out there here, as crazy as you all will think this. Take your iPhone and turn it upside down. Look at the Ap Store symbol. It looks eerily like the Freemason's symbol. Open up your finder on your Mac, the eighth icon at the top is the all seeing eye of horus.

Just sayin'.
post #112 of 138
I heard the phone also stores all your SMS conversations, emails, call history, application data, browser history and personal photos.
post #113 of 138
In related news, Mac fans still deny the world is round, and when faced with evidence, use a car analogy comparing a BMW to a walrus.
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post #114 of 138
I find it frightening that the majority of the posters here see this as 'no big deal'... You have been brainwashed by the technology you blindly worship. Apple has no reason (that's legit) to track your movements at all times. This is the first step in creating a 'police state'. To see so many of you followers aggressively defending this sort of behavior is scary to say the least. I bet the majority of you would have no issue with Apple implanting 'chips' in your necks... right under the collars they have around your throats.
post #115 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by eswinson View Post

I heard the phone also stores all your SMS conversations, emails, call history, application data, browser history and personal photos.

ZOMFG!!1! Won't someone please think of the children!!
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post #116 of 138
I don't think this is some government conspiracy but there is one real issue and thats theft. I've had a few friends have a couple of drinks and lose their bag, which has phone and keys in. So thief plugs in iPhone, checks this unencrypted file, sees where you are every evening, takes yours keys and robs your house. Or if you get mugged, recovering in a&e having been hit in the head with a brick (happened to 2 friends) they steal your stuff from home because your iPhone all but gives your home address to them.

A stolen iPhone is a gem of a find now, because you can find the victims home.
post #117 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by eswinson View Post

I heard the phone also stores all your SMS conversations, emails, call history, application data, browser history and personal photos.

So True ... frightening isn't it!

The biggest threat out there to our safety is storing 'Home' on your car's GPS . Once the thief has stolen your BMW they can use it to find your house and steal your Hi-Fi.




Quote:
Originally Posted by WitchDrAsh View Post

I don't think this is some government conspiracy but there is one real issue and thats theft. I've had a few friends have a couple of drinks and lose their bag, which has phone and keys in. So thief plugs in iPhone, checks this unencrypted file, sees where you are every evening, takes yours keys and robs your house. Or if you get mugged, recovering in a&e having been hit in the head with a brick (happened to 2 friends) they steal your stuff from home because your iPhone all but gives your home address to them.

A stolen iPhone is a gem of a find now, because you can find the victims home.

Don't forget the second you lose your iPhone, log into MobileMe and track the location of the iPhone and get the police to nab the thief first.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha_Male View Post

I find it frightening that the majority of the posters here see this as 'no big deal'... You have been brainwashed by the technology you blindly worship. Apple has no reason (that's legit) to track your movements at all times. This is the first step in creating a 'police state'. To see so many of you followers aggressively defending this sort of behavior is scary to say the least. I bet the majority of you would have no issue with Apple implanting 'chips' in your necks... right under the collars they have around your throats.


From what I understand, if your car has a GPS the same situation is true. From what I read on Android blogs they can do the same thing - some may also do this by default but I am not sure. It's the nature of GPS devices to be able to store waypoints. Frankly, I suspect a phone thief is probably more interested in selling an iPhone than hacking it to use the data to change careers and become a cat burglar. I'd agree encryption of this data is a prudent move.

Meanwhile, don't forget the millions of security cameras in the world today. Put on your foil hat and stay in the basement dude. (I think Beta_Male would suit you better!)
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post #118 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post

It looks like Apple were beaten to it ...

http://www.theonion.com/video/cias-f...cys-cos,19753/


Thank you so much for this link. Best laugh I've had in ages.
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post #119 of 138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJinTX View Post

That is hilarious , if steve needs an organ from me, he knows he need only ask.

I'm only concerned for the safety of others' innards. I'm safe. I'm still surprised I lived through college. Trust me, Stevie don't want my liver. It's probably road kill the size of a baby seal.
post #120 of 138
This is all just another reason why jailbroken devices should be the standard -- else how are you going to really get a look at the data that's on your device?!
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