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Apple's iPhone draws more new customers to AT&T than Verizon

post #1 of 49
Thread Starter 
About 22 percent of customers who bought the iPhone on Verizon last quarter switched from another carrier, while about 23 percent of AT&T iPhone buyers were new to that company.

The launch of the iPhone on Verizon brought fewer than 500,000 new customers to the carrier in less than two months of availability in the first quarter of calendar 2011, according to Reuters. But on rival network AT&T, more than 800,000 new customers joined because of the iPhone.

Still, Verizon topped AT&T in terms of total net subscriber gain, adding 906,000 new customers. AT&T, meanwhile, only added 62,000 net subscribers during the same three-month period.

The race between AT&T and Verizon is of great interest, because AT&T lost exclusive access to the iPhone in February, when Apple's smartphone launched on Verizon's network. Verizon revealed on Thursday that it activated 2.2 million iPhone handsets last quarter, when it was available for purchase for less than two months.

AT&T, meanwhile, activated a record 3.6 million iPhones in the March quarter, an increase of 33 percent from 2010. Those numbers suggested that AT&T was largely unaffected by the launch of the Verizon iPhone -- an outlook bolstered further by the news that the iPhone brought more new customers to AT&T than to Verizon.

The data could also contrast polls that suggested a significant number of AT&T iPhone customers planned to switch to Verizon. A poll conducted late last year found that 26 percent of AT&T iPhone customers said they would switch to the rival network.

Also potentially a factor in gaining new subscribers could be the entry-level $49 iPhone 3GS. Apple's least expensive handset remains exclusive to AT&T, while Verizon's entry-level model is the $199 16GB iPhone 4.

Verizon's network has a much larger 3G footprint in the U.S., and AT&T customers have repeatedly complained about dropped calls. But Verizon's CDMA network also has slower 3G data connection speeds than AT&T on average, and its network cannot allow simultaneous voice and data connections.
post #2 of 49
verizon also has the Droid phones while AT&T doesn't have any well known android phones. even though they are the same hardware. and the Thunderbolt just hit Verizon as well
post #3 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Verizon's CDMA network also has slower 3G data connection speeds than AT&T on average, and its network cannot allow simultaneous voice and data connections.

Bingo....there's your answer.
post #4 of 49
It's an "old" iPhone now, so people are less likely to switch solely for the phone, especially since Verizon is rapidly heading toward LTE.
Besides, one thing that was noticed at Verizon's launch is that Verizon customers are far more patient, so they aren't in a hurry to get a new phone. After all person come to Verizon for reliability, not speed.
post #5 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

Bingo....there's your answer.

So why did Verizon add 13 times the number of new subscribers last quarter that AT&T did?
post #6 of 49
Misread post. My bad.
I lolzed.
post #7 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadash View Post

So why did Verizon add 13 times the number of new subscribers last quarter that AT&T did?

The bigger question is, after 3.5 years of built-up iPhone demand, why didn't they get more? in 1Q11, AT&T still sold more iPhones than Verizon. Keep in mind that Verizon announced the iPhone on Jan 11th (and one can argue that this was common knowledge back in 4Q10), so they did have almost 2.5 out of 3 months in 1Q to steal away AT&T customers. The published churn rates showed that very few AT&T customers left.

I truly believe that smart phones are devices that require/crave speed and multitasking. CDMA (Verizon) just can't offer that.
post #8 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

About 22 percent of customers who bought the iPhone on Verizon last quarter switched from another carrier, while about 23 percent of AT&T iPhone buyers were new to that company....

I don't think the numbers say what the author thinks they do. 23% vs. 22% is basically a wash.

All the other numbers quoted (of actual subscribers, sales, prices, etc.) are meaningless because they aren't corrected for market size, network reach or the current subscriber figures for each company which must of course be different.

The only real measure would be the percentage of new users relative to each individual company's current numbers for users. If that's the percentages quoted above, then it's a wash and not a story at all.
post #9 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

The bigger question is, after 3.5 years of built-up iPhone demand, why didn't they get more? in 1Q11, AT&T still sold more iPhones than Verizon. Keep in mind that Verizon announced the iPhone on Jan 11th (and one can argue that this was common knowledge back in 4Q10), so they did have almost 2.5 out of 3 months in 1Q to steal away AT&T customers. The published churn rates showed that very few AT&T customers left.

I truly believe that smart phones are devices that require/crave speed and multitasking. CDMA (Verizon) just can't offer that.

AT&T said 80% of their smartphone customers are on family plans. i'm on a plan with my wife and her parents. $160 or so for 4 phones, 2 dumb phones, iphone 4 and my HTC phone. if i was to leave and go to verizon myself the bill would drop to $140 plus an $80 verizon bill. plus the cost of the phone, activation, etc. not worth it

the family plan is 700 shared minutes and 2 data plans. a loss of one smartphone only lowers the bill by $20 unless we go to a lower minute plan. and going to verizon means i know have to use minutes to call my wife and her parents

and all our phones are on different contract expiration dates. my HTC and my father in law's new phone are almost 2 years away. wife's iphone is 18 months from now and the last line is a few months. even if i hadn't bought a new phone i would still have to wait the 18 months for my wife's iphone 4 to be paid off.
post #10 of 49
AT&T sold more iPhones and Verizon added more customers?

Not a good sign for AT&T.

First, it looks like this article includes three months of iPhone sales for AT&T and two months for Verizon.

If AT&T activates over a million iPhones per month on the front end, then there are at least a million customers on the back end of their contracts. Verizon has a churn free ride for two years, while AT&T and Verizon fight over AT&T's back end. This is where the battle for subscribers will be waged and Verizon has everything to gain and not a subscriber to lose.

AT&T is making up for their losses by adding customers who want to pay or can afford to pay $49 for an iPhone. This is good for their subscriber numbers, but not so good for the bottom line since these customers are prime target for early termination as their hefty voice and data plans become due month after month.

It's not mathematically possible for AT&T to be the winner in subscriber gain for the next two years.
post #11 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by PleasantDrive View Post

AT&T sold more iPhones and Verizon added more customers?

Not a good sign for AT&T.

First, it looks like this article includes three months of iPhone sales for AT&T and two months for Verizon.

If AT&T activates over a million iPhones per month on the front end, then there are at least a million customers on the back end of their contracts. Verizon has a churn free ride for two years, while AT&T and Verizon fight over AT&T's back end. This is where the battle for subscribers will be waged and Verizon has everything to gain and not a subscriber to lose.

AT&T is making up for their losses by adding customers who want to pay or can afford to pay $49 for an iPhone. This is good for their subscriber numbers, but not so good for the bottom line since these customers are prime target for early termination as their hefty voice and data plans become due month after month.

It's not mathematically possible for AT&T to be the winner in subscriber gain for the next two years.

The real numbers will come when both AT&T and Verizon get a version of the next iPhone at the same time.
I think it's mathematically possible for AT&T to be the winner in smartphone subscriber gain since they are the company to choose if you want speed and/or simultaneous calling and surfing, but they can't be the overall subscriber gain winner because they do not have reliability on their side.

Just wait until 4G and then we'll see who the winner is.
post #12 of 49
Here's hoping that the iPhone5 will be offered for Sprint as well. Many Evo and Epic owners only bought them out of loyalty to Sprint. If you're in their coverage area, the unlimited data plans are very sticky.

If forced to choose between AT&T and Verizon, CDMA handles voice much better than GSM. It has a wider frequency range, especially as it approaches the point of losing signal, and the amplitude algorithms make voice more natural.

Unfortunately, if you travel abroad, GSM is the clear winner. It's another case of VHS winning over Beta. Technical superiority means nothing when you can't get signal (or content).

If the iPhone5 is a world phone (with both CDMA and GSM), you'll see a lot more business going toward Verizon.
post #13 of 49
With contracts and termination fees there is market friction, especially for short time horizons. So results need to be discounted to a certain degree.

I for one plan to switch to Verizon but still have three more months to go on the contract. Then I might as well wait for version 5 ( or "s" ).
post #14 of 49
I do not have the precise numbers but the unit values given are for the quarter: Jan-March 2011.

AT&T had all the three months to sell the iPhone => 3.6 million/3months = 1.2million/month.

In contrast, Verizon had less than two months to do the same => 2.2 million/2month = 1.1million/month. If we consider that it is less than two months, the values are almost the same.

While consumers from AT&T may have expressed interest to shift to Verizon, it should not be forgotten that the cost of terminating a contract is very high, and has been increased just before the Verizon iPhone was announced. Thus, in spite of their bluster to shift carriers, this could be a factor in the decision. Who knows how many AT&T customers would shift, once their contract ends.

There are other factors that should be considered too. AT&T has sweetened their deals to mitigate customers from migrating back to Verizon, e.g., the 1000 minutes bonus. I am not sure if Verizon does carryover of unused minutes, but this deal and the carryover feature is very good for people with limited monthly minutes. If memory serves me correctly, AT&T also matched other options that Verizon was able to offer.

The aforementioned are the beneficial impacts of competition within a given market.

Tim Cook indicated that the $49 3Gs iPhone exclusive to AT&T was very popular and might have enticed AT&T customers to shift from other brands (this data on this would be interesting). This would partly explain the higher than expected number of iPhone customers within AT&T, without much gain coming from other carriers.

One big thing that may dissuade AT&T customers from shifting also was the fact that in the current dichotomy in the technology of the iPhone, the iPhone for AT&T is more universal at present; thus a must for those who travel to other countries frequently. This may change as the technology shifts to the 4G or even earlier, if Apple decides to integrate both current technologies in a single phone. It is not certain that they will do that because there will always still be dichotomies in the backup technologies during the transition to the 4G.

One more thing, once faced to make the decision, people had to consider what they value most. For example, those who like to be able to make calls and do "data" at the same time may find the current Verizon technology to be subpar.

Finally, it is too soon to make these definitive comparisons. Remember when analysts and bloggers were saying that Japanese did not like the iPhone or were so gleeful when the iPhone did not do so well during its first introduction in China? Now, the iPhone to my knowledge is the most popular smartphone in Japan, it has gained inroad in South Korea and just less than a quarter of Apple's total revenue is generated from China. The latter will continue to increase in time.

The next iPhone iteration over a longer period of time may be more telling.

Apple Ecosystems
post #15 of 49
One word: iPhone5. Why switch for an iPhone4? And those of us already-Verizon people figure we can hold out for a couple more months since we've already waited three years.
post #16 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Verizon's network has a much larger 3G footprint in the U.S., and AT&T customers have repeatedly complained about dropped calls. But Verizon's CDMA network also has slower 3G data connection speeds than AT&T on average, and its network cannot allow simultaneous voice and data connections.

Nothing surprising. This is pretty much Verizon's own mixed baggage. Not even an integrated GSM/CDMA iPhone will help them.
post #17 of 49
Finally the USA folks will have to realise the reason Android is ahead is nothing to do with iPhone being on only one carrier for the first few years.

People from the rest of the world (where iPhone is available on multiple carriers in many countries) have known this for a long time.
post #18 of 49
I am a Verizon customer and since AT&T does not provide wireless service to my rural area of Kansas, if I want an iPhone, Verizon is currently my only option. I decided to not get into too big of a hurry since the iPhone 5 is probably not too far around the corner.
post #19 of 49
Fail. This site is so full of fail. I don't understand how it's included on Google News. It's like Google News including my 13 year old nephew's blog about StarCraft II.

"About 22 percent of customers who bought the iPhone on Verizon last quarter switched from another carrier, while about 23 percent of AT&T iPhone buyers were new to that company."

Could this have maybe had something to do with previous Verizon customers waiting for the iPhone to come to them?



"The launch of the iPhone on Verizon brought fewer than 500,000 new customers to the carrier in less than two months of availability in the first quarter of calendar 2011, according to Reuters. But on rival network AT&T, more than 800,000 new customers joined because of the iPhone."

2 months vs. 3 months. Not a fair comparison at all. Is AppleInsider still defending AT&T since that was Steve's first choice?
post #20 of 49
AT&T's numbers include ALL activations whether someone buys a new phone or not. So, for example, If you already have an AT&T account and are still under contract, you can buy a used iPhone on eBay and they will activate it for you. You might do this because you want an iPhone, or a newer iPhone, and are still under contract, so can't get subsidized pricing. That way you get a new iPhone but your contract doesn't start over. Another reason someone might do this is to tide them over until their contract runs out and they can move to Verizon.

That type of transaction above is counted by AT&T as an activation in their numbers even though it's neither a new customer nor a new phone. Just an activation. But zero revenue to AT&T or Apple. This really distorts AT&T's numbers.

In fact, I just did this myself even though my contract has expired. I did it because I want an iPhone 5 when they come out and couldn't wait cuz my iPhone 3G was incredibly slow. I also didn't want to commit to a vendor yet with a contract because I wanted to see how things would look on each of their networks after they both have the iPhone. Because I am more concerned about data speeds (I think AT&T is better there) vs. call quality(I think Verizon is way better there), I will probably end up staying with AT&T but that could change.
post #21 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by robbydek View Post

The real numbers will come when both AT&T and Verizon get a version of the next iPhone at the same time.
I think it's mathematically possible for AT&T to be the winner in smartphone subscriber gain since they are the company to choose if you want speed and/or simultaneous calling and surfing, but they can't be the overall subscriber gain winner because they do not have reliability on their side.

Just wait until 4G and then we'll see who the winner is.

The Thunderbolt and the upcoming crop of LTE phones on VZW all support simultaneous surf and talk. That limitation of VZW's network is quickly going by the wayside.
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post #22 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieb View Post

AT&T's numbers include ALL activations whether someone buys a new phone or not. So, for example, If you already have an AT&T account and are still under contract, you can buy a used iPhone on eBay and they will activate it for you. You might do this because you want an iPhone, or a newer iPhone, and are still under contract, so can't get subsidized pricing. That way you get a new iPhone but your contract doesn't start over. Another reason someone might do this is to tide them over until their contract runs out and they can move to Verizon.

That type of transaction above is counted by AT&T as an activation in their numbers even though it's neither a new customer nor a new phone. Just an activation. But zero revenue to AT&T or Apple. This really distorts AT&T's numbers.

In fact, I just did this myself even though my contract has expired. I did it because I want an iPhone 5 when they come out and couldn't wait cuz my iPhone 3G was incredibly slow. I also didn't want to commit to a vendor yet with a contract because I wanted to see how things would look on each of their networks after they both have the iPhone. Because I am more concerned about data speeds (I think AT&T is better there) vs. call quality(I think Verizon is way better there), I will probably end up staying with AT&T but that could change.

Yeah, but how large of a percentage does the used iPhone userbase make up?
post #23 of 49
When the LTE is available will CDMA + LTE be able to do simultaneous voice and data?

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post #24 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Finally the USA folks will have to realise the reason Android is ahead is nothing to do with iPhone being on only one carrier for the first few years.

People from the rest of the world (where iPhone is available on multiple carriers in many countries) have known this for a long time.

That's partially true. Verizon and AT&T view the iPhone differently.

AT&T is pretty much all about the iPhone these days, whether they want to be or not. (And the answer is probably, not, since carriers don't like being dependent on any single handset manufacturer) They'll try to steer customers to cheaper (to AT&T) phones when possible, but AT&T has more or less become the iPhone carrier, and that's what people want from them.

Verizon on the other hand, I think, views the iPhone as a means of stopping subscribers leaving for AT&T because they weren't offering it. They much prefer pushing people into lower cost (to Verizon) Android phones from a variety of manufacturers to maximize their per subscriber profit and minimize their dependence on any single manufacturer. AT&T might do this if they could, but the iPhone has become so iconic for them that it's more difficult. But, you can pretty much put money on the fact that Verizon has instructed its sales staff to steer customers to less expensive (to Verizon) phones when possible.

So, the, "reason Android is ahead," has more to do with the business practices and goals of carriers, particularly Verizon, than anything else.
post #25 of 49
AT&T customers have complained about dropped calls in specific areas. The issue is not universal. I don’t live in a big coastal city, which have the worst AT&T reputations it seems.

I get reliable coverage, but I still despise AT&T, mainly for their consistently appalling customer service. But my sister hates Verizon for the same reason, and I’m not going to switch for that alone—not if it means giving up speed and simultaneous data. (Which is great, despite AT&T’s stupid ads that fail to show its real uses. Like looking up movie/restaurant/event details for discussion with the other person. The ads all show the user looking up something online in secret! The more useful purpose is to SHARE something with the other person. I do that constantly.)

Now when I buy my iPhone 6, things will be different, and I may jump to Verizon!
post #26 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

That's partially true. Verizon and AT&T view the iPhone differently.

AT&T is pretty much all about the iPhone these days, whether they want to be or not. (And the answer is probably, not, since carriers don't like being dependent on any single handset manufacturer) They'll try to steer customers to cheaper (to AT&T) phones when possible, but AT&T has more or less become the iPhone carrier, and that's what people want from them.

Verizon on the other hand, I think, views the iPhone as a means of stopping subscribers leaving for AT&T because they weren't offering it. They much prefer pushing people into lower cost (to Verizon) Android phones from a variety of manufacturers to maximize their per subscriber profit and minimize their dependence on any single manufacturer. AT&T might do this if they could, but the iPhone has become so iconic for them that it's more difficult. But, you can pretty much put money on the fact that Verizon has instructed its sales staff to steer customers to less expensive (to Verizon) phones when possible.

So, the, "reason Android is ahead," has more to do with the business practices and goals of carriers, particularly Verizon, than anything else.

2011 is the first year of a decent android phone on AT&T as well. the atrix and the inspire came out early in the year and have done OK.

verizon on the other hand has something like 3 Droid brand phones coming out this year. one in a few days and the other 2 later this year.
post #27 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by noexpectations View Post

The bigger question is, after 3.5 years of built-up iPhone demand, why didn't they get more? in 1Q11, AT&T still sold more iPhones than Verizon. Keep in mind that Verizon announced the iPhone on Jan 11th (and one can argue that this was common knowledge back in 4Q10), so they did have almost 2.5 out of 3 months in 1Q to steal away AT&T customers. The published churn rates showed that very few AT&T customers left.

I truly believe that smart phones are devices that require/crave speed and multitasking. CDMA (Verizon) just can't offer that.

Actually the network has no issues, so the article misspoke here. It's the hardware that doesn't support it. SVDO chips (such as in the new HTC Thunderbolt) support both voice and data simultaneously. See this article:

http://www.evdoinfo.com/content/view/2861/64/

I've personally tested this on my Thunderbolt and it works fine in a pure 3G area.
post #28 of 49
As others have stated, this entire article is a mess, doing little more than spewing forth numbers that have little to do with each other.

Quote:
"The launch of the iPhone on Verizon brought fewer than 500,000 new customers to the carrier in less than two months of availability in the first quarter of calendar 2011, according to Reuters. But on rival network AT&T, more than 800,000 new customers joined because of the iPhone."

Failure: Didn't point out that the ATT numbes were for 3 months, not the less than 2 for the Verizon numbers. Especially when you consider that the Verizon iPhone was only at first available to existing Verizon customers.

Quote:
"Verizon topped AT&T in terms of total net subscriber gain, adding 906,000 new customers. AT&T, meanwhile, only added 62,000 net subscribers during the same three-month period."

Failure: Is it 906k "new" subscribers or 906k "net gain" subscribers? That's two very different things. In fact, the extermely low net gain by ATT combined with it's high iPhone activation count suggests a few possibilitites: 1) ATT has a very, very high churn rate of customers, always a bad thing, and/or 2) most of ATTs iPhone activations were existing ATT iPhone users, which means that for many of ATTs iPhone "activations" they also had an iPhone "deactivation."

Quote:
"AT&T, meanwhile, activated a record 3.6 million iPhones in the March quarter, an increase of 33 percent from 2010. Those numbers suggested that AT&T was largely unaffected by the launch of the Verizon iPhone"

Failure: Unless you are going to compare that 33% to the overall iPhone growth, you can draw no conclusions. If overall growth was much higher than 33%, that would suggest that ATT was in fact affected by the launch of the iPhone on Verizon. Also, as noted above, what percentage of those 3.6 million ATT iPhone activations were associated with an iPhone "deactivation" as existing iPhone users upgraded? We know how many of the Verizon iPhone activations related to a Verizon iPhone deactivation...0%. Tell me the total net increase of iPhones for each carrier. I'm betting that ATTs would be far lower than 3.6 million. It might even be lower than Verizon's 2.2 million that it sold in less than 2 months.

Quote:
"The data could also contrast polls that suggested a significant number of AT&T iPhone customers planned to switch to Verizon. A poll conducted late last year found that 26 percent of AT&T iPhone customers said they would switch to the rival network."

Failure: Verizon had the iPhone for less than two months, and for the first week or so it wasn't available to people who weren't already Verizon customers. So ATT users only had about a 1.5 month window of opportunity to switch. Combined with the fact that the standard ATT contract is for two years, that means that only 6% of the ATT customers who wanted to switch could actually do so during that 1.5 month window without incuring an early termination fee (and it's probably much less than 6% if you look at the seasonality of iPhone sales, the bulk of the two-year contracts will expire during the summer and holiday seasons since that's when the bulk of the activations take place).

All-in-all, this article tells us absolutely nothing.
post #29 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukes View Post

One word: iPhone5. Why switch for an iPhone4? And those of us already-Verizon people figure we can hold out for a couple more months since we've already waited three years.

So AT&T beat Verizon because Verizons customers are more likely to hold out for the next model?

Despite the iPhone being more than a half a year old Apple sold more iPhones than the previous quarter and has done so for the past 3 years. Meaning, people who want an iPhone want an iPhone and dont necessarily have to be first in line for the latest model.
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post #30 of 49
Could not agree more with your reasoning.

Most buyers have no idea when or if a new iPhone is on the way IMO. Same with Android phones. You go in planning a phone purchase, perhaps not even a smartphone. You leave with whatever caught your eye and the salesman's interest in selling you at that moment. AI forum members are absolutely not your typical buyer.
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post #31 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggin View Post

Failure: Didn't point out that the ATT numbers were for 3 months, not the less than 2 for the Verizon numbers. Especially when you consider that the Verizon iPhone was only at first available to existing Verizon customers.

I dont see how this makes a lick of difference.The mid quarter release affects it, but not to the extent that people are now claiming in lieu of the fact AT&T beat Verizon. Its not like numbers 1 through 90 were drawn from a hate and if you pulled below number 50 you had to wait until the following quarter to purchase.

This was highly rumoured for months before the launch with enough support that major newspapers noted it. This was made officially on January 11th. Verizon has over 100 million customers who I have heard for years are wealthier and waiting for the iPhone to come. This was sold for over 50 days on Verizons network with little to no lines to speak of despite the rampant and will crush AT&T into particulate matter as soon as it arrives.
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post #32 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

People from the rest of the world (where iPhone is available on multiple carriers in many countries) have known this for a long time.

While Apple may want to increase its marketshare, it is not the main focus of the company, especially with the extenuating circumstances. The focus of Apple is profitability.

So far, it has the lions share of the profit. Let the Androids, and the other OS share the crumbs.

Apple
post #33 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I dont see how this makes a lick of difference.The mid quarter release affects it, but not to the extent that people are now claiming in lieu of the fact AT&T beat Verizon. Its not like numbers 1 through 90 were drawn from a hate and if you pulled below number 50 you had to wait until the following quarter to purchase.

This was highly rumoured for months before the launch with enough support that major newspapers noted it. This was made officially on January 11th. Verizon has over 100 million customers who I have heard for years are wealthier and waiting for the iPhone to come. This was sold for over 50 days on Verizons network with little to no lines to speak of despite the rampant and will crush AT&T into particulate matter as soon as it arrives.

It makes a difference because, despite what many here seem to think, there are many things going on in the world and many other things to do other than go stand in line outside of an Apple Store to buy the latest Apple device. Most people have other, better things to do. Their lives don't revolve around Apple, and they will get an iPhone, if they want one, when they get around to it. In other words, the people who were so desperate to get an iPhone, the ones who would go stand in lines to get one as soon as it was released, already have an ATT iPhone. For the rest of us, we've waited this long...so what's the rush?

As for all the claims of "rampant" and crushing demand, etc, since when have you given any serious weight to what analysts, professional or otherwise, have to say.

I'm not saying Verizon beat ATT, just that we can't conclude that ATT beat Verizon, as you state. Let's come back after the end of the current quarter, and we'll see how things stand.
post #34 of 49
The headline "about 22 percent of customers who bought the iPhone on Verizon last quarter switched from another carrier, while about 23 percent of AT&T iPhone buyers were new to that company" doesn't make any sense...

If 22 percent of Verizon iPhone buyers came from other carriers, then they are "new" to Verizon. If 23 percent of ATT iPhone buyers were "new" to ATT, then where did they come from? Oh, that's right, other carriers. It's the same thing!!

Now, could it be possible that all 23 percent of these "new" ATT customers could be people who have never before owned a cell phone and they are buying a relatively expensive smart phone for the 1st time in their lives?... yea, I didn't think so.

post #35 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by eddieb View Post

AT&T's numbers include ALL activations whether someone buys a new phone or not. So, for example, If you already have an AT&T account and are still under contract, you can buy a used iPhone on eBay and they will activate it for you. You might do this because you want an iPhone, or a newer iPhone, and are still under contract, so can't get subsidized pricing. That way you get a new iPhone but your contract doesn't start over. Another reason someone might do this is to tide them over until their contract runs out and they can move to Verizon.

That type of transaction above is counted by AT&T as an activation in their numbers even though it's neither a new customer nor a new phone. Just an activation. But zero revenue to AT&T or Apple. This really distorts AT&T's numbers.

In fact, I just did this myself even though my contract has expired. I did it because I want an iPhone 5 when they come out and couldn't wait cuz my iPhone 3G was incredibly slow. I also didn't want to commit to a vendor yet with a contract because I wanted to see how things would look on each of their networks after they both have the iPhone. Because I am more concerned about data speeds (I think AT&T is better there) vs. call quality(I think Verizon is way better there), I will probably end up staying with AT&T but that could change.

Couldn't the same be said of Verizon...
post #36 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

verizon also has the Droid phones while AT&T doesn't have any well known android phones. even though they are the same hardware. and the Thunderbolt just hit Verizon as well

I thought the Samsung Galaxy S variants were quite well known Android phones which AT&T sold.
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post #37 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

When the LTE is available will CDMA + LTE be able to do simultaneous voice and data?

Yes and LTE is already widely available
"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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"I got the answer by talking in my brain and I agreed of the answer my brain got" a 7 yr old explaining his math HW
"Just because something is deemed the law doesn't make it just" - SolipsismX
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post #38 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So AT&T beat Verizon because Verizons customers are more likely to hold out for the next model? :???

precisely
post #39 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by jukes View Post

precisely

Which implies that AT&T customers, who had the ability to buy the new iPhone 4 since last June, having been holding off for half a year just to buy it in 2011. That doesnt make a lick of sense.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #40 of 49
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

verizon also has the Droid phones while AT&T doesn't have any well known android phones. even though they are the same hardware. and the Thunderbolt just hit Verizon as well

Not really an issue as droid usually does not.
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