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iOS location data prompts investigations of Apple in South Korea, Europe - Page 3

post #81 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Well, don't stop there, we also have those, like Menno, who are paid to come here and do just that.

How are comments like that beneficial? Highly unlikely that anyone is paid to post here (except for the out of control spammers).

A lot of your posts add to the discussion. When you attempt to mock others you end up stifling that same discussion instead.
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post #82 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Not sure that his response there helps much.

So they don't use the data.. people have discovered as much by looking at how that file was treated. But the phone IS tracking your data. So if they're not using it, it is (like I and others said initially) more than likely a bug. And the bug isn't "False" Whatever the meaning of that file, it clearly exists, and it's not just some site trying to make it up.

They do use your information though, they say as much in their privacy policy. Again, that isn't an issue (and they dealt with it last year). This bugged file is.

I agree that people are blowing it out of proportion, but Apple should officially respond to this. Not a short 1-2 sentence response either.

1) Generally speaking Id call it a bug, but more specifically Id say its an oversight.

2) Like everyone els, their lawyers write up these privacy policies. There is no evidence that consolidated.db is sent to Apple in any way, shape or form. That is what is false.

3) Its a silly notion to think that no data is sent to Apple or anyone else from your phone since its a connected device. Whether youre connecting to the carrier for a call or to website or a remote server from an app you are sending and receiving data. This shouldnt come as a surprise.

4) Its been noted its cell data, not your specific location. Its been noted other phones do it, too. The only unknown is why isnt consolidated.db being purged when the data isnt useful. For this reason, and this reason alone, I expect to get a formal answer and an iOS update to address the matter.

5) Personally I wish Jobs would stop with the emails to us plebs. Its already caused issues when his terse replies have been used out of context. Let Apples PR and legal deal with these things.
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post #83 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

How are comments like that beneficial? Highly unlikely that anyone is paid to post here. ...

Yeah, right.
post #84 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by tt92618 View Post

You've pointed out the truth in this entire thing: the phone is not tracking your location, it is tracking the location of network access points it has been in communication with. I certainly cannot pretend to know why that data is being recorded - if I have to guess, it is probably engineering data. But regardless, the important point is that this data does not accurately reflect your locations - the phone is not tracking you, or even doing anything remotely of the sort.

I fail to see the flap over this. What use is it to anyone if there is an entry at some random time stamp on your device which happens to correspond to a cell tower 3.2 miles away from the Starbucks where you were having coffee at the time? How can that be seen as even remotely 'tracking' you? The location is the tower, not you; you could have been anywhere within the reach of that tower's signal, and that is a big area. There is no way knowing the location of the tower itself could help someone positively identify where you (or your phone for that matter) were at the time. To look at a situation like that and draw from it the conclusion that the device is tracking your location strains credulity, and to promulgate that and present it as fact the way Apple Insider and countless other publications have is dishonesty on a scale that quite frankly takes my breath away. It is ridiculous.

Well I guess that it is tracking you in a crude kind of way - it certainly has enough resolution to indicate if you travel any significant distance. As a means of actually locating you it is not very useful however. I think that the media response to this is driven more by the popularity of any suggested scandal involving Apple or Google, and the subsequent increase in their hits/sales/ad views, than by any real issue.
post #85 of 102
(Apologies for cross-posting, but unfortunately most people don't read every thread.)
I've written an AppleScript called iPhone Geotag to tag Places for your pictures in iPhoto using this data.

Please check it out at http://goo.gl/OQzfB

Any feedback's greatly appreciated!
Peter
http://peterburk.appspot.com
post #86 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulMJohnson View Post

I don't understand why they would need to build such a file and I can see how it could be used for nefarious means. The fact that I actually trust Apple to do the right thing with my data is neither here nor there, I'd still like to understand why they are logging my position.

They build the file so your phone knows what services you have used and where. This speed up all kinds of applications that use locations such as knowing what WiFi networks you have used at a certain location.

As for using it for "nefarious means", this confuses me. The data is anonymous. Even if someone got hold of it, all it could tell anyone is that someone was at a location at a particular time. How is that nefarious? I have read that all mobile devices record such information - certainly we know iOS and Android devices both do - and the companies that make them can use the information to update databases on the locations of cell towers and WiFi hotspots. I fail to see how this is an intrusion into my privacy.

Perhaps I am a little laissez-faire about privacy (I feel I have nothing to hide ) but it seems to me that as long as we don't lose our phones then no-one can use this file to know where we have been. As I said before, this file just records where the mobile device has been and even the identity of the device is not part of the file. Privacy is important but I can't see that mine has been invaded in this case.
post #87 of 102
FWIW, I have tried the iPhoneTracker app and the AppleScript for adding this info to iPhoto and they both report that they cannot find the consolidated.db file. As far as I know I haven't disabled anything and I know my location services are switched on and working. I wonder how many other people don't have one and whether I'm just not interesting enough to spy on!\
post #88 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouty2 View Post

FWIW, I have tried the iPhoneTracker app and the AppleScript for adding this info to iPhoto and they both report that they cannot find the consolidated.db file. As far as I know I haven't disabled anything and I know my location services are switched on and working. I wonder how many other people don't have one and whether I'm just not interesting enough to spy on!\

Have you tried browsing the file system? On the phone it should be in: System/Library/Frameworks/CoreLocation.framework/Support. In the backup structure it is in: Library/Caches/locationd.
post #89 of 102
Thanks muppetry, I have looked in Library/Caches/ but cannot find "locationd" there. Presumably it would be in my user so it would be ~Library/Caches/locationd? Also I don't know how to browse the file system on my iPhone. Does it have to be jailbroken?
post #90 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouty2 View Post

Thanks muppetry, I have looked in Library/Caches/ but cannot find "locationd" there. Presumably it would be in my user so it would be ~Library/Caches/locationd? Also I don't know how to browse the file system on my iPhone. Does it have to be jailbroken?

Yes, it has to be JBen with SSH enabled [if you want to access your phone’s file system, but it doesn’t need to be JBen if you want to access consolidated.db from the mapping app as it uses your backups done by iTunes.]

1) Are you using iOS 4.x?

2) If yes, have you backed up your iPhone running iOS 4.x with iTunes?

3) If yes, is your iPhone OS 4.x backup unencrypted per the checkbox in iTunes?

4) If yes, I have no idea why the app can’t locate the file.
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post #91 of 102
Hi Solipsism,

Thanks for the input. To answer your questions:

Yes, it has to be JBen with SSH enabled. OK, so my phone is not Jailbroken

1) Are you using iOS 4.x? Yes - 4.3.2

2) If yes, have you backed up your iPhone running iOS 4.x with iTunes? Yes - frequently

3) If yes, is your iPhone OS 4.x backup unencrypted per the checkbox in iTunes? Yes - the checkbox is unchecked

4) If yes, I have no idea why the app cant locate the file. Me too.

I might be in a minority but I'm disappointed that these data are not available to me (or anyone else). I'll go and check the iMac that my wife uses to sync her iPhone and see what shows up.
post #92 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grouty2 View Post

I might be in a minority but I'm disappointed that these data are not available to me (or anyone else). I'll go and check the iMac that my wife uses to sync her iPhone and see what shows up.

You iPhone backups are located in ~/Library/Application Support/MobileSync/Backup. Not sure what else to suggest looking for but I don’t see how your phone would be any different.
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post #93 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Yes, it has to be JBen with SSH enabled [if you want to access your phone’s file system, but it doesn’t need to be JBen if you want to access consolidated.db from the mapping app as it uses your backups done by iTunes.]

1) Are you using iOS 4.x?

2) If yes, have you backed up your iPhone running iOS 4.x with iTunes?

3) If yes, is your iPhone OS 4.x backup unencrypted per the checkbox in iTunes?

4) If yes, I have no idea why the app can’t locate the file.

Actually it does not have to be jailbroken - mine isn't. You can use an app such as FileSystem to browse the file structure on the phone. The file structure in the iTunes backups is different, as indicated by the different paths. The files in the backup folder have pseudo-random string names and you need to extract the files, so when I gave the path as Library/Caches/locationd I meant in the extracted backup file structure, not your user library. Sorry to have mislead you there.
post #94 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

Actually it does not have to be jailbroken - mine isn't. You can use an app such as FileSystem to browse the file structure on the phone.

Link? I searched for it but the name is too general.
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post #95 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Link? I searched for it but the name is too general.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/files...418424102?mt=8

Note that this is for browsing the structure, and you can preview some file types. Not SQL databases though - to read that you would have to get in via SSH and copy the file.
post #96 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by peterburk View Post

(Apologies for cross-posting, but unfortunately most people don't read every thread.)
I've written an AppleScript called iPhone Geotag to tag Places for your pictures in iPhoto using this data.

Please check it out at http://goo.gl/OQzfB

Any feedback's greatly appreciated!
Peter
http://peterburk.appspot.com

It mystifies me how you can use this data to geotag photo places, since the vast majority of these data points reflect locations where you have not actually been. How does that work, exactly?
post #97 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by muppetry View Post

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/files...418424102?mt=8

Note that this is for browsing the structure, and you can preview some file types. Not SQL databases though - to read that you would have to get in via SSH and copy the file.

I can see where youre coming with that but I was referring to more than a viewer on the iPhone. To get access to the iPhones filesystem on your Mac/PC jailbreaking and SSH is the only option I know of. If you just want to access to the filesystem a simple JB and an app from Cydia can do wonders. They even have a Terminal app.
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post #98 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I can see where youre coming with that but I was referring to more than a viewer on the iPhone. To get access to the iPhones filesystem on your Mac/PC jailbreaking and SSH is the only option I know of. If you just want to access to the filesystem a simple JB and an app from Cydia can do wonders. They even have a Terminal app.

That is correct - I did not make my post very clear. I have not tried the JB approach to get into the filesystem as it is so easy to get the files from the backup.
post #99 of 102
I had a bit of a play and, although I still can't find the files I'm looking for, after syncing my iPhone again iPhoneTracker worked as expected. However iPhoneGeotag still complains that it can't find the file: "Error: consolodated.db (location file) not found!". Curiouser and curiouser said Alice.
post #100 of 102
I just heard a local TV news reporter commenting on this. Apple is recording your location data even if the gps is turned off, blah, blah. . .

But this is the part that leaves the impression that they're guilty of something. "So far Apple is refusing to comment".

So what do you suppose potential Apple product purchasers will hear? Past the time for Apple to comment.
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post #101 of 102
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post #102 of 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Finally! Apple breaks their silence

http://www.engadget.com/2011/04/27/a...cking-says-it/

The sensible people were right not to panic.
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