or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Steve Jobs speaks out on iOS location issue: Apple isn't tracking anyone
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Steve Jobs speaks out on iOS location issue: Apple isn't tracking anyone - Page 2

post #41 of 72
Who are you kidding Jobs, be a man and admit it. why else are you putting out a fix? To fix nothing? Give me a break.
post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjbjohnson View Post

I'm mostly satisfied with the resolution here, it just kinda stinks of conveniently calling these things bugs after vast media attention brought them to light. I can't imagine their development team never thought about the amount of data they were storing, or the possibility that people would want it to be secured somehow. Also the fact that it still did this with location services turn off seems suspicious as well. If the user isn't using the location services, the phone shouldn't be doing anything to determine it's location and therefore not logging it.

I thought that turning off location services meant only denying access to that data to Apps - not that you couldn't still use it for example to find where am I now - or E911 service to find where is your body. not that I paid all that much attention to it other than to allow or deny apps as I saw fit based on whether I wanted a given app to access that data or not.
post #43 of 72
If Apple wanted to spy on us, then the files would be encrypted, obfuscated, offloaded, and flushed. The fact that it was out in the open is proof that it was an oversight. If you look at the data it's like a shotgun was shooting pins at a map. At best someone could know what zip codes you've been, but not what bathroom you frequent the most. On top of that they would need access to your phone or computer. Umm, then they already found you.

This story makes great blog food though! Learning from how Apple maneuvers through this PR mess is delicious.
post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by hezetation View Post

Why would the press investigate companies that are advertising with them, doesn't Steve understand they are mad that Apple isn't throwing money at them?

He's talking about Google, hint-hint.
You talkin' to me?
Reply
You talkin' to me?
Reply
post #45 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

PS: Are we ever going to get a response from Google on this matter or is now effectively closed. If it is that says a lot about the mindshare of Android.

'Ever'? After all the apologia this past week, Why has this issue become important to you now -- because Apple has explained (as some of us have wanted it to) and Google hasn't?!
post #46 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

'Ever'? After all the apologia this past week, Why has this issue become important to you now -- because Apple has explained (as some of us have wanted it to) and Google hasn't?!

For the same exact reason I wanted and expected Apple to respond. Im curious to know the specifics.

Im certainly not worried about what Google is doing with the information just as I was not worried about this harmless db on the iPhone, but for some reason you dont see how one can be interested in a topic without claiming their is a dark conspiracy despite all the evidence saying otherwise.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

For the same exact reason I wanted and expected Apple to respond. Im curious to know the specifics.

Im certainly not worried about what Google is doing with the information just as I was not worried about this harmless db on the iPhone, but for some reason you dont see how one can be interested in a topic without claiming their is a dark conspiracy despite all the evidence saying otherwise.

Are you talking about a response to what they use the data for? They've already responded about the file stored on your device.

If you have a WSJ subscription, you can read the full article. As I don't at the moment, here's a link to the TechCrunch article about it:
http://techcrunch.com/2011/04/22/goo...oid-is-opt-in/

To my knowledge they haven't responded directly to what the data is used for since the Apple uproar, at least nothing more than what's in their privacy policy already. I'd be interested to hear what it's about as well, but remember, the big blowup with Apple's tracking is that it was an unencrypted file (so you could view stuff yourself=more drama) and it didn't delete old records. Since Google's program on Android doesn't do that, the whole thing might get swept under the rug, at least for the moment.

Like I said earlier, I think all companies need to do a better job explaining the benefit of things like location aware applications/devices.
post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by LongwoodBob View Post

I guess we will now see the difference between iOS and Android now that the dog has pisssed on the flag pole. How tracking is done the "open source" Google way is vastly different than how Apple curated apps work.... this is going to be fun....

We already know the answer to that. Apple has stated several times that they do not track the user's location. When will we hear the same thing from Google? <crickets>

Google's business model is based on tracking the user and sending them targeted ads. They have a massive incentive to track you - and have not yet denied doing so.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

The only explanation needed by the public was for Apple to say they were aware of the problem and working on a fix.

Apple has now done that and I think we can put this issue to bed.

Not a chance. The Apple haters and Android shills will continue to spread lies and FUD for months or years.
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
"I'm way over my head when it comes to technical issues like this"
Gatorguy 5/31/13
Reply
post #49 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

We already know the answer to that. Apple has stated several times that they do not track the user's location. When will we hear the same thing from Google? <crickets>

Google's business model is based on tracking the user and sending them targeted ads. They have a massive incentive to track you - and have not yet denied doing so.

They don't need to deny tracking you. The tracking is opt in (you are presented with the option when you register the device). If I have to see an ad, I'd much rather see one that is targeted to me.

What google needs to do is explain how they use the information, and the privacy measures they take with said data. They've talked a lot about privacy in the past, but more clarification would be nice. The problem with that is that most customers won't pay attention to it, people who distrust google will continue to do so because they'll doubt the PR, and people who support google will continue to do so as well. Still, clarification from everyone would be nice.

Quote:
Not a chance. The Apple haters and Android shills will continue to spread lies and FUD for months or years.

Thus is the power of the internet.

But that stream goes both ways. Apple Shills are great at spreading Android FUD as well. Again, that's the internet.
post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dickprinter View Post

He's talking about Google, hint-hint.

I would guess he wasn't. Google is not a device manufacturer. Tomtom, Garmin, Motorola. . Yes, they are.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menno View Post

Like I said earlier, I think all companies need to do a better job explaining the benefit of things like location aware applications/devices.

Which is my stance from the beginning but if Im getting into hysterics over my privacy and some potential hacker getting into my secured system Im apparently an fanboy apologist.


Now Im curious about the data usage per month. The file on my iPhone is 8.3MB. Thats pretty damn big and I doubt that is sent anonymously to Apple 2x a day, every day. If it was it would be 500MB a month.

If its 50KB per package then were only talking about 3MB per month and shipped quickly without any noticeable effect on the data. Love for someone to figure the average amount of data that is sent to Apple.

Is 3MB per month too much to waste for those with 250MB limits that are only on 3G. I wonder why Apple didnt opt for a less carrier heavy way to send the data, like when youre connected to WiFi and its been over 12 hours.

And why every 12 hours if they have timestamps? This makes me think the data is much, much simpler and therefore smaller than consolidated.db for Apple to being 12 hour bursts.


Note: Im only curious since I have unlimited data.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #52 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven N. View Post

The risk exposure is almost non-existant as it can, at best (after you get physical access to a device/computer), pin point a user to an area of many 10's of square miles. At worst, the information covers an area of 1000's of square miles.

The amount of sensitive information available (like email/text/calendar/schedules/contacts) once you get physical access to a device far outweighs the data the consolidated.db file contains.

Exacty! I have access to my information, not Apple. The whole public/private key security infrastructure is based on a private key that is supposed to reside physically on your machine. Why aren't people hysterical about that?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
Reply
post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Exacty! I have access to my information, not Apple. The whole public/private key security infrastructure is based on a private key that is supposed to reside physically on your machine. Why aren't people hysterical about that?

Because you cant make it into a picture that scares people?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Which is my stance from the beginning but if Im getting into hysterics over my privacy and some potential hacker getting into my secured system Im apparently an fanboy apologist.


Now Im curious about the data usage per month. The file on my iPhone is 8.3MB. Thats pretty damn big and I doubt that is sent anonymously to Apple 2x a day, every day. If it was it would be 500MB a month.

If its 50KB per package then were only talking about 3MB per month and shipped quickly without any noticeable effect on the data. Love for someone to figure the average amount of data that is sent to Apple.

Is 3MB per month too much to waste for those with 250MB limits that are only on 3G. I wonder why Apple didnt opt for a less carrier heavy way to send the data, like when youre connected to WiFi and its been over 12 hours.

And why every 12 hours if they have timestamps? This makes me think the data is much, much simpler and therefore smaller than consolidated.db for Apple to being 12 hour bursts.


Note: Im only curious since I have unlimited data.

I didn't call you a fanboy over this.
post #55 of 72
Actually I've found Solipcism to be very open-minded and not afraid to question Apple wisdom when he feels they may be lacking some.

Not my definition of a fanboy. But certainly a dedicated fan of Apple.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #56 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

For the same exact reason I wanted and expected Apple to respond. Im curious to know the specifics.

Im certainly not worried about what Google is doing with the information just as I was not worried about this harmless db on the iPhone, but for some reason you dont see how one can be interested in a topic without claiming their is a dark conspiracy despite all the evidence saying otherwise.

'Dark conspiracy?' LOL.

Please have the decency to stop saying or implying things I did not ever say or imply.
post #57 of 72
Interesting interview. Worth the read…
» A bunch of folks on the regulatory side, both in the U.S. and elsewhere, said they are going to look into this. Do you guys plan on testifying before Congress? How active do you personally and does Apple want to be?

Jobs: I think Apple will be testifying. They have asked us to come and we will honor their request, of course. I think it is great that they are investigating this and I think it will be interesting to see how agressive or lazy the press is on this in terms of investigating the rest of the participants in the industry and finding out what they do. Some of them don’t do what we do. That’s for sure.


» Steve, how active have you been in examining this issue over the past couple of weeks?

Jobs: It hasn’t been a couple of weeks. This all started last Wednesday and we put out our response this morning. It took us slightly less than a week. Scott and Phil and I have worked together over this last week, first to investigate the problem.

We’re an engineering-driven company. When people accuse us of things, the first thing we want to do is find out the truth. That took a certain amount of time to track all of these things down. And the accusations were coming day by day. By the time we had figured this all out, it took a few days. Then writing it up and trying to make it intelligible when this is a very high-tech topic took a few days. And here we are less than a week later.

http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/2011...-and-location/
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #58 of 72
The Apple drama the past few days hasn't gone unnoticed by some other location collectors. Tomtom released a video today explaining how they use travel data collected from users. And logging into Garmin just now I was asked to again agree/decline to share my trip statistics anonymously to help in improving the navigation experience.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #59 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cpsro View Post

The bug was not discovered by Apple.

It is very possible Apple knew of this bug ages ago. It is not a malicious bug and as such I am sure a very low level until now with all the media hype. I am sure Apple also knows about many other low level bugs but like everybody else they don't publish a list of all bugs they discover.

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply

"A common mistake that people make when trying to design something completely foolproof is to underestimate the ingenuity of complete fools." Douglas Adams

Reply
post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Get well soon Steve!

Quote:
Originally Posted by nkalu View Post

Yap! Tell them Steve.
I wish you a quick recovery.

Whats with all the personal get well wishes? Like Steve Jobs gives a $hit about you and what you say here. Friggin Steve Job Groupies. iGag!
post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Interesting interview. Worth the read
» A bunch of folks on the regulatory side, both in the U.S. and elsewhere, said they are going to look into this. Do you guys plan on testifying before Congress? How active do you personally and does Apple want to be?

Jobs: I think Apple will be testifying. They have asked us to come and we will honor their request, of course. I think it is great that they are investigating this and I think it will be interesting to see how agressive or lazy the press is on this in terms of investigating the rest of the participants in the industry and finding out what they do. Some of them dont do what we do. Thats for sure.


» Steve, how active have you been in examining this issue over the past couple of weeks?

Jobs: It hasnt been a couple of weeks. This all started last Wednesday and we put out our response this morning. It took us slightly less than a week. Scott and Phil and I have worked together over this last week, first to investigate the problem.

Were an engineering-driven company. When people accuse us of things, the first thing we want to do is find out the truth. That took a certain amount of time to track all of these things down. And the accusations were coming day by day. By the time we had figured this all out, it took a few days. Then writing it up and trying to make it intelligible when this is a very high-tech topic took a few days. And here we are less than a week later.
http://mobilized.allthingsd.com/2011...-and-location/

You might be interested in this article:

http://www.electronista.com/articles...orse.than.ios/
post #62 of 72
Did anyone see the latest South Park (s15e01)? It covered the Apple tracking issue and was bitingly cruel to Apple. Not very funny actually just gross and mean.
post #63 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

You might be interested in this article:

http://www.electronista.com/articles...orse.than.ios/

Its not surprising in the least.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Did anyone see the latest South Park (s15e01)? It covered the Apple tracking issue and was bitingly cruel to Apple. Not very funny actually just gross and mean.

I loved it. They lampooned Apple, but they also lampooned Kyles Dad for not owning a Mac, who finally became part of the future. They made fun of the iPad but then slammed Toshiba as being a crappy copycat. They even Steve Jobs in good health and spirit, if not diabolical.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #64 of 72
Don't you have something else to do tonight? I'm sure there's some homework due tomorrow.

No everyone here agrees with everyone else. But most of us try to add to the discussion rather than waste time calling names and nothing else.
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
melior diabolus quem scies
Reply
post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I loved it. They lampooned Apple, but they also lampooned Kyles Dad for not owning a Mac, who finally became part of the future. They made fun of the iPad but then slammed Toshiba as being a crappy copycat. They even Steve Jobs in good health and spirit, if not diabolical.

I guess it is good that they showed Steve in good health, that didn't occur to me. But I didn't like the way they took Apple's key idea of integrating humans and technology and make a centipad out of it. But I did like the recurring joke about how everyone read the iTunes agreement except Kyle.
post #66 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I guess it is good that they showed Steve in good health, that didn't occur to me. But I didn't like the way they took Apple's key idea of integrating humans and technology and make a centipad out of it. But I did like the recurring joke about how everyone read the iTunes agreement except Kyle.

I've never found South Park to be funny, except in the soporific way of college students, mostly male. But then, they seem to think that fart jokes are high humor as well. There are some people who feel so small in their own lives that what they find to be funny is the putting down, in the most crude manner, those who are successful.

I find the show to be a sad reflection of small minds, and the lack of culture.
post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by evaluate View Post

Jobs said that others(the manufacturer such like Sumsung, HTC ) did track consumers? how does it come out? i am not really agree what the jobs said,though he is a very person in the IT field.

All cell phone manufacturers and providers track their customers to a certain degree. That degree is where they differ.
post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I've never found South Park to be funny, except in the soporific way of college students, mostly male. But then, they seem to think that fart jokes are high humor as well. There are some people who feel so small in their own lives that what they find to be funny is the putting down, in the most crude manner, those who are successful.

I find the show to be a sad reflection of small minds, and the lack of culture.

Thats like saying Macs are overpriced and less useful than PCs.
In commentary by Matt Stone and Trey Parker during the first episode in which Terrance and Phillip appeared, they complained of many people claiming that South Park was poorly animated and just all fart jokes. In response the creators invented Terrance and Phillip to demonstrate just what a show that was indeed all fart jokes would be, and made it even more poorly animated. The show is story driven, well thought out and usually very clever. I dont think anyone matches their satire and use of current events.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Thats like saying Macs are overpriced and less useful than PCs.
In commentary by Matt Stone and Trey Parker during the first episode in which Terrance and Phillip appeared, they complained of many people claiming that South Park was poorly animated and just all fart jokes. In response the creators invented Terrance and Phillip to demonstrate just what a show that was indeed all fart jokes would be, and made it even more poorly animated. The show is story driven, well thought out and usually very clever. I dont think anyone matches their satire and use of current events.

The show is crap.
post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The show is crap.

So it’s not that you don’t like it it’s that no one with any taste, sense or self esteem should find it funny? There are plenty of shows I don’t care for but I think they are well written, they just aren’t entertaining to me.


PS: I guess there is no point in asking if you’ve seen The Book of Mormon.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #71 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

Did anyone see the latest South Park (s15e01)? It covered the Apple tracking issue and was bitingly cruel to Apple. Not very funny actually just gross and mean.

Probably the most boring episode ever! It's sad to see my friend South Park slowly dying. They don't even try anymore.
post #72 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

So its not that you dont like it its that no one with any taste, sense or self esteem should find it funny? There are plenty of shows I dont care for but I think they are well written, they just arent entertaining to me.


PS: I guess there is no point in asking if youve seen The Book of Mormon.

It often doesn't matter whether people like something or not. Crap is still crap. Who was it that said that 90% of everything is crap? Heinline or Clark? Whatever. Popular never means "good". Sometimes it is good, but much more often, it doesn't. This is one of those times where it doesn't.

No, I haven't seen that.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPhone
  • Steve Jobs speaks out on iOS location issue: Apple isn't tracking anyone
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPhone › Steve Jobs speaks out on iOS location issue: Apple isn't tracking anyone