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post #81 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Wrong again Trumpet. It's not about questioning the right to be president. It's not taking a legal document at face value and assuming there's a vast conspiracy. That is what some believe may have some racial overtones.

So the only time anyone has ever questioned taking a legal document at face value is due to racism.

That is your contention right? The only reason to believe a form like Hawaii issues could ever be forged is because of racism. Noting things like it looks like it could easily be crafted on a color laser printer and could be easily duplicated could only be the thoughts of a racist.

The improvements we constantly demand in our currency, or forms of ID, etc. Those are only because of racism. None of those motivations really exist either. They were just large covers for addressing the racist concern of this birth certificate.

You know I don't even really care to go all the way there, because as has been the case all along, I could care less about the form short or long. I've said he's a citizen from early on. I've said it is a hell of a lot easier to beat him on his positions and actions than on any technicality related to this.

That said people can have concerns in this area, have had concerns in this area and still have the same concerns in other areas regardless of Barack Obama. It isn't a racist concern.

As an educator I know about different learning styles. There are people out there who must balance their checkbooks before they'll spend a sent. The agenda doesn't just need items, it needs times allocated to the items. Their trip better have a damn itinerary, etc. It is a personality type and personality types have nothing to do with racism. They are the same type of people who want more details on everything and this is why most of our legal forms of proof for things are constantly being "improved" by revision by them.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #82 of 119
Your first statement is a huge, deliberate misinterpretation of what I said. I'm not wasting any more time with you on this.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #83 of 119
'All birthers are racists.' Yeah, that's like totally what I said.

Actually, I can make a blanket generalization that's mostly true. You can quote me on this. If you think anything I've written here makes the claim that all birthers are racists, then you're a moron with incredibly elementary reading comprehension skills.
post #84 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

'All birthers are racists.' Yeah, that's like totally what I said.

Actually, I can make a blanket generalization that's mostly true. You can quote me on this. If you think anything I've written here makes the claim that all birthers are racists, then you're a moron with incredibly elementary reading comprehension skills.

Maybe their not a moron tonton. Perhaps they just have moronic undertones.

Because that's totally different right.

If anyone thinks that calling someone a racist and saying they merely have racist undertones isn't the same thing, then I would suggest they have undertones of being a massive liar.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #85 of 119
Trumpy, dear, as I said this is completely politically motivated. No one who thinks Obama is doing a great job is demanding to see proof, then dismissing the proof, then dismissing the further proof. That shows that motivation goes far beyond personality type.
post #86 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Maybe their not a moron tonton. Perhaps they just have moronic undertones.

No, trust me. They're morons.
Quote:
Because that's totally different right.

If anyone thinks that calling someone a racist and saying they merely have racist undertones isn't the same thing, then I would suggest they have undertones of being a massive liar.

You need to take a logic course. And see a doctor.
post #87 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Want to know my problem with you these days, Fellows?

You don't put the sources of your flawed skepticism under the same scrutiny as you approach the topic with which you are "skeptical" about.

But it is ok that students are taught hoaxes as truth. Lets be mad at the video and at Fellows

We just have to be mad "louder" and our lies will become truth...

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #88 of 119
Students are sometimes taught hoaxes as truth until the hoaxes are exposed as such. On the other hand, students are often taught science that is wholly supported, that some ignorant or biased people claim to be hoaxes, without giving any evidence that comes anywhere near the amount of scientific evidence in support.

Some students are even taught religion as truth! Talk about the greatest hoaxes ever known!!!
post #89 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Students are sometimes taught hoaxes as truth until the hoaxes are exposed as such. On the other hand, students are often taught science that is wholly supported, that se ignorant or biased people claim to be hoaxes, without giving any evidence that comes anywhere near the amount of scientific evidence in support.

Why has evolution been so riddled with hoaxes in your view tonton?

I mean why would "honest and intelligent" "scientists" spread deception? when the science is so strong and evident for supporting evolution as the case for our origins?

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #90 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Why has evolution been so riddled with hoaxes in your view tonton?

I mean why would "honest and intelligent" "scientists" spread deception? when the science is so strong and evident for supporting evolution as the case for our origins?

Fellows

Fame, notoriety and funding. Any more obvious questions? And who's saying those scientists involved were honest? Let me ask you this, Fellowship, in your opinion, have there ever been any dishonest leaders in the field of Christian theology? Have there ever been any hoaxes spread in that field?
post #91 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

Why has evolution been so riddled with hoaxes in your view tonton?

I mean why would "honest and intelligent" "scientists" spread deception? when the science is so strong and evident for supporting evolution as the case for our origins?

Fellows

Begging the question that evolution is actually "riddled with hoaxes."

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #92 of 119
By the way, I was taught all about the Piltdown Man like the rest of us here probably were. But I want to ask you... If the scientific community were colluding to commit fraud with regard to evolution, why was Piltdown ever exposed as a hoax?
post #93 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

By the way, I was taught all about the Piltdown Man like the rest of us here probably were. But I want to ask you... If the scientific community were colluding to commit fraud with regard to evolution, why was Piltdown ever exposed as a hoax?

I am not talking about the scientific community. I am a huge fan of science. The theory of evolution on the other hand is a pile of goods. It is hard to allow fraud to remain unchallenged. I think for many evolution is their chosen world view more so than evolution being hard science. Of course this will never be admitted to.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #94 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Fame, notoriety and funding. Any more obvious questions? And who's saying those scientists involved were honest? Let me ask you this, Fellowship, in your opinion, have there ever been any dishonest leaders in the field of Christian theology? Have there ever been any hoaxes spread in that field?

There have been and are dishonest leaders in the field of Christian theology. I don't support these people or their views. I too would argue that in politics there are sometimes policies driven by lobby which is hungry to feed profits of private industry which end up being paid for by future generations who are debt laden. Corruption is the concept here. It is ugly and it robs us. In the financial sector "experts" have taken many for a ride as well. In the medical realm many have been sold procedures, tests, drugs they did not need because the "experts" built the sale upwards. Dishonesty, greed and the abuse of given profession to convince people who are not the doctor, not the pentagon, not the financial advisor, not the science teacher, not the pastor or minister has been going on for many many years..

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #95 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship View Post

There have been and are dishonest leaders in the field of Christian theology. I don't support these people or their views. I too would argue that in politics there are sometimes policies driven by lobby which is hungry to feed profits of private industry which end up being paid for by future generations who are debt laden. Corruption is the concept here. It is ugly and it robs us. In the financial sector "experts" have taken many for a ride as well. In the medical realm many have been sold procedures, tests, drugs they did not need because the "experts" built the sale upwards. Dishonesty, greed and the abuse of given profession to convince people who are not the doctor, not the pentagon, not the financial advisor, not the science teacher, not the pastor or minister has been going on for many many years..

Fellows

just incase I didn't understand properly, is this like the non-scientists telling us that Evolution is work of the devil? or the 1st grade Christian theologists claiming that Noah really did sail the waves...?

hehe. Frauds, liars, deceivers, cheaters.....suck, I quite agree.
post #96 of 119
So. I'm missing Felowship's real point.

On the one hand, Evolution should not be taught at all because it's "riddled with hoaxes".

Yet there are abundant hoaxes in Christian theology, right? So should it be taught at all?
post #97 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

The thing is, so many repubs believed it. That's what's made this shit happen and the likes of Fox News have been the platform for these nut job conspiracy theories, indeed they've wanted to stir it up.

Here's SDW2001 again-

"I'm also starting to wonder lately: If this debate is really so insanely stupid, why not just release the birth certificate everyone claims exists? Recent polling suggests a very significant number of Americans believe he's not a natural-born citizen."

...and followed by the now infamous-

"Why not end the debate and make the birthers look like fools once and for all?"

Donald Trump, leading contender for the Republican nominee for POTUS, makes it the main focus of his trivial Trumpomination TV appearances, hoping to hawl in more suckers, so Obama splats him like an annoying fly and now, guess what, it's all that bad Kenyan's fault.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Come on, Fellows. To demand Obama's birth certificate in the first place was ridiculous, and 100% politically motivated, and helped along by racist undertones. To have seen the birth certificate and claim it must be a fake is even more fucking ridiculous. SDW should absofuckinglutely be roasted for questioning this. And the comment about evolution fit with the graph.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

The real, legally accepted short form birth certificate was presented way back in 2008. Why the issue even lasted this long is utterly insane. Fellows, SDW is full of shit in this thread. Don't wallow in it, too.


Let's be clear: I believe he was born in the US. But there has been an awful lot of discrepancy and debate about this document. Some of those items are still unexplained, such as the numbers written down the side.

Additionally, it's my understanding that until recently, Wikipedia stated that Kapiʻolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital was not named that until 1978. However, checking that page today, I notice that Wiki now says that name was acquired in 1931 (formerly Kapiʻolani Maternity Home). I also have see that other birth certs from the time have the name "Kapiʻolani Maternity and Gynecological Hospital." The hospital website doesn't appear to have that information on it. All in all, It would appear this question has been answered.

The other question I had pertained to what constitutes a "birth certificate" in Hawaii. I'm not sure this is completely explained. From my understanding, people can use the "short form" to get drivers' licenses, passports, etc. They can, but must they?From my understanding, again, this "short form" is an abstract of the actual birth information, and and "long form" is really the actual state record kept by the state itself (not a "certificate" per se).

This is different from my birth cert. I have a birth certificate that stays in my possession. It is from the state of NY. If I wanted a copy, I would either scan mine, or order another copy from the state. That copy would not be an abstract...it would be a hard copy on heavy paper with a raised seal. As far as I know, that is the only "birth cert" available in NY. In fact, I know this because I actually had to order an official copy when I got my vehicle learner's permit in PA. It seems I had never gotten an "official" cert from NY, only one from the hospital (I know...let the irony bombs fly on that one). It would seem that NY doesn't send an abstract or a long form copy of the record, they send an actual "certificate."

So with all that, does Obama have an actual "birth certificate" as I've described? If not, why? Is the the "short form" considered the only true Hawaii "birth certificate?" If so, then why is there another "long form?" Isn't the long form just a copy of the book where the state keeps its records? Is it lost?

Where I take issue with BR and others is where they positively blast me for even ASKING these questions. This has been the response of the mainstream media and the Obama admin itself as well. All such such questions are dismissed as looney, racist, ignorant, etc. Really? Is it really hard to understand why a sizable minority of people would question the President's place of birth given his rather unique backstory? It's hard to understand why people believe Obama is a Muslim, given that he was registered at school as a Muslim in Indonesia and has talked about attending a Muslim school? There is more to those stories, of course. One can't say "Obama was raised as a Muslim" anymore than one can say "Obama has never been a Muslim." Both are untrue. Yet somehow the Left absolutely excoriates anyone who even dares to question his religious upbringing or place of birth. These are the same people who floated every conspiracy theory about George Bush one could imagine, from his having an illegitimate child, to him continuing to drink while in office, to him planning to declare martial law in the name of national security, cancel elections and become a dictator. Nothing was out of bounds.

But dare question what kind of a school Obama went to as a child while living in Indonesia? That makes you a freaking lunatic! \
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post #98 of 119
You know...this whole thing is just silly.

The man could have been born on the 4th of July, in a hospital in Main Street in Any Town, USA, while the national anthem was playing on the radio, a baseball game was on TV and an apple pie was cooling on the window sill...while being wrapped in a red, white and blue blanket...

An none of that would change the fact that he's a disaster of a President.

If the issue is that he maybe lied about this...well shiiiit...finding something that he either lied or has been hypocritical about is about as difficult as finding the words "I," "me" or "my" in any of his speeches or statements.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #99 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You know...this whole thing is just silly.

The man could have been born on the 4th of July, in a hospital in Main Street in Any Town, USA, while the national anthem was playing on the radio, a baseball game was on TV and an apple pie was cooling on the window sill...while being wrapped in a red, white and blue blanket...

An none of that would change the fact that he's a disaster of a President.

And yet... he's brought your economy back from the brink of a disaster that happened ENTIRELY on his predecessor's watch, your economy's GROWING, the bailed out industries are repaying their loans and going into credit, he's killed Bin Laden, he's passed health care policy that brings your country nearly into line with the rest of the developed world... and he takes less holidays, and plays less golf, than the previous president.

Yes, best of all, he's restored global respect to your notion,

George Bush made you a global laughing stock. He was more damaging than you are ever capable of understanding. Obama's repaired that. You should thank him for that, more than anything.

Isn't it great? Now he's doing really well in the polls and he's going to win the next election, and we're all going to get to gloat all over again.

post #100 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

And yet... he's brought your economy back from the brink of a disaster that happened ENTIRELY on his predecessor's watch, your economy's GROWING, the bailed out industries are repaying their loans and going into credit, he's killed Bin Laden, he's passed health care policy that brings your country nearly into line with the rest of the developed world... and he takes less holidays, and plays less golf, than the previous president.

Yes, best of all, he's restored global respect to your notion,

George Bush made you a global laughing stock. He was more damaging than you are ever capable of understanding. Obama's repaired that. You should thank him for that, more than anything.

Isn't it great? Now he's doing really well in the polls and he's going to win the next election, and we're all going to get to gloat all over again.


Please give the number to your dealer. He's obviously got the best shit out there man. I've never been as high as that post indicates you are right now!

The economy is clearly going into a double dip. There hasn't been a bit of real growth, only financed and printed attempts to push the economy on a string. The rest isn't worth addressing because it clearly is a drug hallucination.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #101 of 119
"trumptman—because lots of laughing smilies mean you don't have to be right about anything."

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Please give the number to your dealer. He's obviously got the best shit out there man. I've never been as high as that post indicates you are right now!

The economy is clearly going into a double dip.

THAT's the spirit! Ignore the evidence. Talk your country down! OBAMA IS A CUNT AND YOU'RE A PATRIOT!

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

The rest isn't worth addressing because it clearly is a drug hallucination.

Which bit?

The bit about George Bush making your country an international laughing stock? The bit about everyone, everywhere, detesting and despising George Bush? That bit? The bit about your Nobel prize-winning President restoring your nation's reputation and prestige in the world?

That bit?



You are funny, trumptman. Now pretend to put me back on 'ignore' for a bit, you silly, silly, sausage.
post #102 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

"trumptman—because lots of laughing smilies mean you don't have to be right about anything."

Nor apparently does doing a rather poor Eddie Izzard impersonation.

Quote:
THAT's the spirit! Ignore the evidence. Talk your country down! OBAMA IS A CUNT AND YOU'RE A PATRIOT!

That's the spirit! Ignore the evidence. Gas prices haven't doubled. More wars haven't been started. The world is so happy a place right now!


Quote:
Which bit?

The bit about George Bush making your country an international laughing stock? The bit about everyone, everywhere, detesting and despising George Bush? That bit? The bit about your Nobel prize-winning President restoring your nation's reputation and prestige in the world?

That bit?


The world is absolutely following President Obama's examples. They've all gone that stimulus route as opposed to that austerity route as an example. The dollar as a currency certainly shows that American is the place to be. Why it is only falling against every thing out there as people flee it! But...but...but.... utopian delusions are fun and I'll take them for $1000 Alex and hope for the daily double.
Quote:
You are funny, trumptman. Now pretend to put me back on 'ignore' for a bit, you silly, silly, sausage.

Oh I never put anyone on forever. After a while the sting of how bad your reasoning getting thumped goes away for you, or perhaps you forget due to the drink or drugs, who know. Who really cares the point is you become a bit sharp but pleasant versus an abusive turd. If it helps you can call yourself the battering boyfriend who knows I'll let you back in because my kids need their daddy.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #103 of 119
I didn't read your post because I've learned that engaging with you with reason, based on facts, is fucking useless and eventually we'll be arguing over grammar and the meanings of nouns. But this is funny:

Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

NIf it helps you can call yourself the battering boyfriend who knows I'll let you back in because my kids need their daddy.

What a deeply objectionable person you are, Nick.
post #104 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

And yet... he's brought your economy back from the brink of a disaster that happened ENTIRELY on his predecessor's watch, your economy's GROWING, the bailed out industries are repaying their loans and going into credit...

And yet...he seems to have this magical power to convince some people of all of the above. So I guess that's something.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #105 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

You know...this whole thing is just silly.

The man could have been born on the 4th of July, in a hospital in Main Street in Any Town, USA, while the national anthem was playing on the radio, a baseball game was on TV and an apple pie was cooling on the window sill...while being wrapped in a red, white and blue blanket...

An none of that would change the fact that he's a disaster of a President.

If the issue is that he maybe lied about this...well shiiiit...finding something that he either lied or has been hypocritical about is about as difficult as finding the words "I," "me" or "my" in any of his speeches or statements.

We agree on that completely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mumbo Jumbo View Post

And yet... he's brought your economy back from the brink of a disaster

How? Because I'm pretty sure it was The Fed and TARP that did that.

Quote:
that happened ENTIRELY on his predecessor's watch,

Not true. The root of the problem was years before.

Quote:
your economy's GROWING,

It's barely growing

Quote:
the bailed out industries are repaying their loans and going into credit,

First, I don't know what "going into credit" means. I do know that taxpayers are losing billions on the GM takeover

Quote:
he's killed Bin Laden,

True. One good deed, at least.

Quote:
he's passed health care policy that brings your country nearly into line with the rest of the developed world...

First, it's not universal care. It's the worst of both systems. And we can't pay for it.

Quote:
and he takes less holidays, and plays less golf, than the previous president.

Objectively false. He's played far more golf than Bush. Bush actually gave up golf during the Iraq war because he didn't think it was appropriate. And his time on his ranch was a working holiday.

Quote:

Yes, best of all, he's restored global respect to your notion,

No, he hasn't. He's destroyed it because he's portrayed America as weak. The world is laughing at us.

Quote:

George Bush made you a global laughing stock.

Don't confuse respect with being liked.

Quote:
He was more damaging than you are ever capable of understanding. Obama's repaired that. You should thank him for that, more than anything.

Obama has repaired nothing. He has continued the wars Bush "started." He has exploded the debt beyond anything Bush could have imagined. He has started a third war. He's gone on an apology tour to appease white liberal guilt. He's destroying the US economy through extreme debt and inflation.

Quote:

Isn't it great? Now he's doing really well in the polls and he's going to win the next election, and we're all going to get to gloat all over again.


I wouldn't say "well." Even with his debatable bump from bin Laden, he's still in the negative.
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post #106 of 119
Attention Obama “Birthers”: the damage has been done. Real long-form birth certificate or not, natural-born American citizen or not, Barack Hussein Obama has been the “de facto” President of this country for going on 3 years.

What do you expect would happen if incontrovertible, definitive proof was found that Obama was not eligible for the presidency?

If Obama were removed from office tomorrow, would it magically erase everything that he and his Administration have done? Would it solve the problems our country has been facing for decades?

Obama’s eligibility became irrelevant the day he was sworn in.

Don’t get caught up in all of this intentional distraction.

It’s time to look forward, not back.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #107 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

So. I'm missing Felowship's real point.

On the one hand, Evolution should not be taught at all because it's "riddled with hoaxes".

Yet there are abundant hoaxes in Christian theology, right? So should it be taught at all?

It is not taught in public schools as truth.

If there needs to be an evolution thread somebody start a thread. I am no longer going to have a secondary conversation in this thread which is not about evolution. It is my fault this happened and I am sorry.

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
Reply
post #108 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Attention Obama Birthers: the damage has been done. Real long-form birth certificate or not, natural-born American citizen or not, Barack Hussein Obama has been the de facto President of this country for going on 3 years.

What do you expect would happen if incontrovertible, definitive proof was found that Obama was not eligible for the presidency?

If Obama were removed from office tomorrow, would it magically erase everything that he and his Administration have done? Would it solve the problems our country has been facing for decades?

Obamas eligibility became irrelevant the day he was sworn in.

Dont get caught up in all of this intentional distraction.

Its time to look forward, not back.

You're off to a good start, Jazzy. Good to see you back.
post #109 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You're off to a good start, Jazzy. Good to see you back.

Thanks, tonton.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #110 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Attention Obama Birthers: the damage has been done. Real long-form birth certificate or not, natural-born American citizen or not, Barack Hussein Obama has been the de facto President of this country for going on 3 years.

What do you expect would happen if incontrovertible, definitive proof was found that Obama was not eligible for the presidency?

If Obama were removed from office tomorrow, would it magically erase everything that he and his Administration have done? Would it solve the problems our country has been facing for decades?

Obamas eligibility became irrelevant the day he was sworn in.

Dont get caught up in all of this intentional distraction.

Its time to look forward, not back.

I wonder though. Surely a lot of what he's done would be undone. Legally a lot would be at stake. I suspect that's why he was checked for his authenticity years ago.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #111 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hands Sandon View Post

I wonder though. Surely a lot of what he's done would be undone. Legally a lot would be at stake. I suspect that's why he was checked for his authenticity years ago.

I seriously doubt anything he's done would or could be undone easily.

Certainly the lives of our soldiers and innocent people already lost in our illegal wars could not be restored.

Those wars would not end.

The insane amount of debt our grandchildren have been saddled with would not disappear overnight.

Gitmo would still be open.

The Obamacare waiver list would still be growing.

The dollar would continue to lose value and inflation would continue.

The TSA would still grope you or expose you to radiation if they felt like it.

Illegal wiretaps and spying on law-abiding citizens would still be happening under the Patriot Act.

It's a long list. Need I go on?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #112 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I seriously doubt anything he's done would or could be undone easily.

Certainly the lives of our soldiers and innocent people already lost in our illegal wars could not be restored.

Those wars would not end.

The insane amount of debt our grandchildren have been saddled with would not disappear overnight.

Gitmo would still be open.

The Obamacare waiver list would still be growing.

The dollar would continue to lose value and inflation would continue.

The TSA would still grope you or expose you to radiation if they felt like it.

Illegal wiretaps and spying on law-abiding citizens would still be happening under the Patriot Act.

It's a long list. Need I go on?

I don't know how legally it would all work, but there's sure to be a lot that would be repealled, including healthcare. Just how far down the chain decisions would become void is something I'm sure people will have written about. Perhaps someone will post some links.

But yes, much can't be undone that's already taken place, but many things could be done to compensate for some of those things, but obviously not all.
"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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"Islam is as dangerous in a man as rabies in a dog"~ Sir Winston Churchill. We are nurturing a nightmare that will haunt our children, and kill theirs.
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post #113 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman View Post

Nor apparently does doing a rather poor Eddie Izzard impersonation.



That's the spirit! Ignore the evidence. Gas prices haven't doubled. More wars haven't been started. The world is so happy a place right now!




The world is absolutely following President Obama's examples. They've all gone that stimulus route as opposed to that austerity route as an example. The dollar as a currency certainly shows that American is the place to be. Why it is only falling against every thing out there as people flee it! But...but...but.... utopian delusions are fun and I'll take them for $1000 Alex and hope for the daily double.


Oh I never put anyone on forever. After a while the sting of how bad your reasoning getting thumped goes away for you, or perhaps you forget due to the drink or drugs, who know. Who really cares the point is you become a bit sharp but pleasant versus an abusive turd. If it helps you can call yourself the battering boyfriend who knows I'll let you back in because my kids need their daddy.

Quote:
Oh I never put anyone on forever.

Ain't that the truth!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #114 of 119
Daily Caller

Quote:
President Obamas decision to release his long form birth certificate has succeeded in taking the wind out of the sails of the birther movement, according to a new Washington Post poll.

According to the poll, conducted in the days following the release of the birth certificate, just three percent of Americans believe that Obama was born in another country, compared to 14 percent in a poll released April 25 of last year. 77 percent now say that he was born in the United States, up from 68 percent last year.

Moreover, the number of people who believe that there is solid evidence that Obama does not meet the requirement to be president has dropped precipitously in a year from nine percent to a mere one percent. Of the 10 percent who continue to say he was not born in the US, 8 percent admit that this is suspicion only.

The poll surveyed 1,006 adults by phone, on both landlines and cell phones, and has a sampling error of 3.5 percentage points.

This can't be possible! It appears these most folks saw what they considered to be evidence (whether accepted or not at various levels of government) and made their decision based on that evidence.

How is that possible if all those previous people who were skeptical were really just racist?

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #115 of 119
Simple, trumpt.

Obama is single-handedly stamping out racism.

Is there anything he can't do?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #116 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I seriously doubt anything he's done would or could be undone easily.

Certainly the lives of our soldiers and innocent people already lost in our illegal wars could not be restored.

Please explain which wars are "illegal." Honestly, I'm so sick of this term just being thrown around out there whenever someone doesn't like something.

Quote:

Those wars would not end.

The insane amount of debt our grandchildren have been saddled with would not disappear overnight.

Gitmo would still be open.

The Obamacare waiver list would still be growing.

The dollar would continue to lose value and inflation would continue.

The TSA would still grope you or expose you to radiation if they felt like it.

Illegal wiretaps and spying on law-abiding citizens would still be happening under the Patriot Act.

It's a long list. Need I go on?


It would be interesting. If was never eligible to hold office, one could argue that every action he took was illegitimate. But you're right...these things are not undone easily. The hardest thing to undo? Joe Biden.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #117 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

Please explain which wars are "illegal." Honestly, I'm so sick of this term just being thrown around out there whenever someone doesn't like something.

All wars that do not have an official declaration of war from Congress are illegal, per our own Constitution.

Quote:
It would be interesting. If was never eligible to hold office, one could argue that every action he took was illegitimate. But you're right...these things are not undone easily. The hardest thing to undo? Joe Biden.

Well sure, every action he did would be illegitimate...but the actions themselves cannot be undone. We cannot hop in a time machine and prevent Obamacare from ever being passed, or Libya from ever being bombed.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
post #118 of 119
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

All wars that do not have an official declaration of war from Congress are illegal, per our own Constitution.

That is ridiculous. .There is nothing in the Constitution that says Congress MUST declare war for the armed forces to be engaged, only that it has the power to declare war. There is no clause that states Congress must declare war before the President can exercise his duties as commander-in-chief. And one could easily argue that a congressional resolution explicitly authorizing the use of the US military (in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc) is tantamount to a declaration of war itself.

Even Libya is not illegal. Obama consulted with Congress. They didn't pass a formal resolution, but the leadership knew full well what was going to happen. They could have stopped it if they wanted to.

Quote:

Well sure, every action he did would be illegitimate...but the actions themselves cannot be undone. We cannot hop in a time machine and prevent Obamacare from ever being passed, or Libya from ever being bombed.

Yes and no. Obamacare, for example, can be undone. It hasn't damaged the nation much yet because it really hasn't taken effect. The debt and deficits are another matter.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
Reply
post #119 of 119
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

That is ridiculous. .There is nothing in the Constitution that says Congress MUST declare war for the armed forces to be engaged, only that it has the power to declare war. There is no clause that states Congress must declare war before the President can exercise his duties as commander-in-chief. And one could easily argue that a congressional resolution explicitly authorizing the use of the US military (in Iraq, Afghanistan, etc) is tantamount to a declaration of war itself.

Even Libya is not illegal. Obama consulted with Congress. They didn't pass a formal resolution, but the leadership knew full well what was going to happen. They could have stopped it if they wanted to.

Per the Constitution, Congress has the power to declare war.

The President has the power to wage war - but ONLY after an official declaration from Congress.

Congress "knowing about" the President waging war is a very, very different thing from Congress officially declaring war.

That the President is waging war wherever he wants and that Congress isn't stopping him does not make the war legitimate.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

Reply
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