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post #81 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


The courier never existed.

The Courier existed. But it was a working prototype. I've seen video of it working. It's on the Internet, likely on YouTube. It was apparently the brainchild of, and I've forgotten his name right now, one of the bigwigs in MS, who presented it to Ballmer, who cut the project, and rolled some of it into the Windows division, as happens with most all products there. The guy resigned, supposedly because of that.
post #82 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymouse View Post

Coffee produced using child labor isn't necessarily evil, for example on a small family owned finca it would be quite normal for the children to be involved in the picking and processing. There's still plenty of child labor going on on farms and orchards in this country (U.S.).

Besides, I thought big green bought triage coffee?


There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #83 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.

And the point to that is?
post #84 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Seriously though, I have never heard about child slave labour actively being used by Starbucks.

The phrase 'turn a blind eye' seems apropos. A very large percentage of their coffee comes from Costa Rica where an extremely large percentage of the coffee is produced by illegal immigrant Nicaraguans who often live in huts without electricity or water. A family consisting of a man, woman and a couple children all pick coffee for 12-14 hours a day and earn together about 10 dollars.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #85 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

And the point to that is?

That he was mistaken on all accounts.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #86 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

There are two things here. One is just like there are very few small farms in the US, small family owned fincas do not account for very much coffee produced. A small finca would be all on one elevation meaning that all the coffee becomes ripe within 30 days or so. In that particular case the children working could be considered family chores after school. ALL coffee growers send their kids to school. Also there is no processing done on small fincas. Their coffee is sold to a wholesaler. Two, large plantations grow coffee at many elevations and the coffee is being picked for 6 months or more. The child workers are from ethnic indians, migrant and illegal immigrant families, not the privileged land owners children who go to private school and often to university in the States.

Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. The communist movement proved that the only way to eliminate economic disparity is to make everyone equally poor.

We would all like to give every child the opportunities that most of us had. But eliminating child labor isn't going to help because it puts the horse before the cart. The solution is economic growth. You have to pull them out of poverty, not push them out.

Of course there are exceptions such as child prostitution. Obviously we should eliminate that on moral grounds.

But the idea that children shouldn't have to work hard or that they wouldn't enjoy working hard is a stupid one....propagated mostly by wealthy born, ignorant Americans. Those bean picking child laborers aren't committing suicide, doing drugs, or needing anti-depressants like the "privileged" educated children in America. So who is better off?
post #87 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patranus View Post

Steve Jobs should send Mr. Gates a thank you note for that 400 million dollar loan

You mean the $150 Million invested in non-voting shares?
post #88 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

if you ever hope to make sense of the stock market, and if you ever hope to make money, the first step on that road is ignoring the advice of career criminals like Cramer.

His entire business is based on stock manipulation. He uses his media profile to selectively release information so as to manipulate the prices of the stocks that he is interested in. He almost never tells the truth. He contradicts himself daily, and anyone who follows his advice is just a pawn in his manipulation game.

He's basically admitted all this himself several times in interviews.

It's kind of like that televangelist Benny Hinn where anyone can find bushels of information on what a fraud he is and how the whole act is just to make him money, yet he is still popular, still listened to, and worst of all, still given money. Hinn was "exposed" on a 60 minutes-type newsmagazine show at least five years ago but still packs them in to his meetings today.

Some people just deserve to lose their money.

So out of your long winded post, you don't like Cramer, you spout off something about Benny Hinn, and attempt to be condescending without offering up anything remotely related to the initial question. Some people just like hearing themselves talk I suppose. Either that or jealousy should be one of the 7 deadly sins.
post #89 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

Life isn't fair. Welcome to the real world. The communist movement proved that the only way to eliminate economic disparity is to make everyone equally poor.

We would all like to give every child the opportunities that most of us had. But eliminating child labor isn't going to help because it puts the horse before the cart. The solution is economic growth. You have to pull them out of poverty, not push them out.

Of course there are exceptions such as child prostitution. Obviously we should eliminate that on moral grounds.

But the idea that children shouldn't have to work hard or that they wouldn't enjoy working hard is a stupid one....propagated mostly by wealthy born, ignorant Americans. Those bean picking child laborers aren't committing suicide, doing drugs, or needing anti-depressants like the "privileged" educated children in America. So who is better off?

Every child should have the opportunity for an education, nutrition and healthcare.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #90 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The Courier existed. But it was a working prototype. I've seen video of it working. It's on the Internet, likely on YouTube. It was apparently the brainchild of, and I've forgotten his name right now, one of the bigwigs in MS, who presented it to Ballmer, who cut the project, and rolled some of it into the Windows division, as happens with most all products there. The guy resigned, supposedly because of that.

I was under the impression the video showing the UI was all computer animation not an actual WinCE-based device.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #91 of 143
Steve Jobs: We're better than you are! We have better stuff.
Bill Gates: You don't get it, Steve. That doesn't matter!



Turns out it does.
post #92 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

You mean the $150 Million invested in non-voting shares?

...in part settlement for stealing quicktime code at that...
post #93 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The phrase 'turn a blind eye' seems apropos. A very large percentage of their coffee comes from Costa Rica where an extremely large percentage of the coffee is produced by illegal immigrant Nicaraguans who often live in huts without electricity or water. Men, woman and children all pick coffee for 12-14 hours a day and earn together about 10 dollars.

You say this as though it is a bad thing. I've worked for next to nothing as a child and it didn't bother me. You exemplify the ignorance of American society. What makes you think huts without electricity or running water is such a bad thing? If someone has food to eat and good health, the rest is just stuff. Mankind (including Kings and Queens) got along just fine without electricity for millions of years. Why should I pity the lack of electricity for a coffee bean picker? Should I pity myself because I can't afford a private jet like Steve Jobs? Happiness comes from making do with what you have. Sure we hope to deliver electricity to all the world. But the lack of electricity isn't the end of the world. I personally knew and associated with a family in Allende Mexico (near Montemorelos) that didn't have electricity. I ate at their house several times under candle light. The food and the company was good. I had no complaints. I bought them a bus ticket once so they could go see some relatives. They were very appreciative. You need to crawl out of your little world and see things from someone else's perspective. Those people that traveled from Nicaragua to Costa Rica did it because they found something better. Who are you to say we should bar them from the opportunity because we think they are being mistreated. As if they care about electricity. Sheesh. Candles work just fine. As for the 12-14 hour days, that's no different then what I do? I have a brother in NYC that is working 16+ hours six days a week in a high tech job. Why don't we ban that?
post #94 of 143
Solipcism:

http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/29/n...ce-exciting-l/

Sometimes MS market plans defy explanation

EDIT: Sorry, the video is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WYWGKnVkEw
melior diabolus quem scies
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melior diabolus quem scies
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post #95 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

You say this as though it is a bad thing. I've worked for next to nothing as a child and it didn't bother me. You exemplify the ignorance of American society. What makes you think huts without electricity or running water is such a bad thing? If someone has food to eat and good health, the rest is just stuff. Mankind (including Kings and Queens) got along just fine without electricity for millions of years. Why should I pity the lack of electricity for a coffee bean picker? Should I pity myself because I can't afford a private jet like Steve Jobs? Happiness comes from making do with what you have. Sure we hope to deliver electricity to all the world. But the lack of electricity isn't the end of the world. I personally knew and associated with a family in Allende Mexico (near Montemorelos) that didn't have electricity. I ate at their house several times under candle light. The food and the company was good. I had no complaints. I bought them a bus ticket once so they could go see some relatives. They were very appreciative. You need to crawl out of your little world and see things from someone else's perspective. Those people that traveled from Nicaragua to Costa Rica did it because they found something better. Who are you to say we should bar them from the opportunity because we think they are being mistreated. As if they care about electricity. Sheesh.

Humanity is not survival of the fittest. There are such things as compassion, justice and charity. Some of us are willing to make and effort to help the disadvantaged among us. Your description of your experiences is a little suspect about your growing up poor and then making it on your own in modern society. You didn't learn how to type and speak English without some electricity and probably a lot of other amenities and advantages. Who helped you?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #96 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Every child should have the opportunity for an education, nutrition and healthcare.

Picking beans 12 hours a day is an education.
If I had to guess, the Costa Ricans probably don't pay to educate the Nicaraguan children, which means that the Nicaraguan parents take their kids to work with them. The parents and children working in the fields and spending evenings together at night isn't such a bad thing. Obviously it is better than the other choices the families have or they wouldn't do it. Blaming the coffee growers or the coffee consumers for the situation is just messed up.
post #97 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

Blaming the coffee growers or the coffee consumers for the situation is just messed up.

Wrong. Both are to blame. The best growers provide housing, healthcare and school for all their workers and children. If you are interested in rewarding the growers and the modern coffee retailers who support this philosophy I can provide a list of them for you by PM.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #98 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Humanity is not survival of the fittest. There are such things as compassion, justice and charity. Some of us are willing to make and effort to help the disadvantaged among us. Your description of your experiences is a little suspect about your growing up poor and then making it on your own in modern society. You didn't learn how to type and speak English without some electricity and probably a lot of other amenities and advantages. Who helped you?

You missed my point. You think that a Nicaraguan isn't going to be happy unless he or she has what you have. I think you are wrong. The need for compassion is a figment of your imagination. I'm telling you, the lack of electricity isn't really that big a deal for a Nicaraguan trying to escape his or her country. Your compassion is contingent on the belief that the Nicaraguans need what you have. Trust me, they don't; just like I don't give a shit about having a private jet. Having a private jet may be important to some people, but it isn't to me.
You are imposing your needs on a group of people you don't know or understand. In most cases, American's will visit these people and come to an incorrect conclusion about their needs. Some of these poor people may even figure out what is going on in your head and use it to their advantage by playing the "poor me card." (I've seen that done many times).
After living with these poor people for a while you figure out that their poor society is no different than your rich society. If no one has electricity, no one cares. They are probably thinking about how lucky they are that their floor is flat instead of sloped like the Jone's hut two doors down. They are checking out the pretty girls and talking about who is doing what with who and how so and so got a job doing such and such. It's all the same.

But you can go on thinking that life sucks for them because they don't have what you have. In the end, they don't give a shit what you think, which is why they aren't sad about not having what you have.
post #99 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by neiltc13 View Post

Microsoft is still doing very well. They're making the best products they ever have done, such as:

- Zune desktop software
- Zune hardware and mobile software
- Windows Phone 7
- Windows 7
- Office 2010
- Office 2011 for Mac
- Xbox 360
- Xbox Live

Get rid of zune and windows phone 7 and I can agree that these are good products.
--SHEFFmachine out
Da Bears!
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--SHEFFmachine out
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post #100 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

Your compassion is contingent on the belief that the Nicaraguans need what you have.

I've had it with your nonsense. You have no toothbrush and no clean water and you have an infected root on a molar that is so painful you can't even stand up and you think that a hard day's work in the coffee fields will take your mind off it. You are saying that access to healthcare is not important. No immunizations against malaria necessary, walk it off, be a man. You could not be more dispassionate or selfish if you have the means to help correct this but choose to ignore it supposedly for the good life lessons of the individual who suffers. You are a sick human being. Although the latter may be giving you more credit than you deserve.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #101 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Wait, what???
You forgot Kin

Have you ever actually read anything about the Kin?

The end result was a fantastic little phone and its cloud integration was way ahead of its time.

It would have been a killer "dumb" phone had it not been priced like a smart phone.

Granted, the pricing likely had more to do with development decisions inside Microsoft than anything else, but it doesn't change the fact it was (so very briefly) the best (and most expensive ) dumb phone on the market.

I'll try to dig up a Kin post mortem for you. I guarantee you'll be impressed.

EDIT:
Microsoft's KIN: A Eulogy
post #102 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Less competition means fatter, more sluggish Apple. Keep them on their toes, which is when they perform best!

Point well Taken! Has to be another company to keep Apple being so sharp. Without competition Apple wouldn't be doing half as well and the consumer would be at a loss also
post #103 of 143
I should have viewed your profile earlier. You are so full of shit. Growing up poor in Costa Rica with no electricity. What a load of shit. Your profile says your native language is English and you are a Patent Attorney. Why I wasted so much effort reasoning with a complete asshole makes me ashamed. Good night.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #104 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Wrong. Both are to blame. The best growers provide housing, healthcare and school for all their workers and children. If you are interested in rewarding the growers and the modern coffee retailers who support this philosophy I can provide a list of them for you by PM.

Good for those employers that provide the best working conditions. In any given market, there will be a whole range of employers. The best employers are to be commended. I'll concede that the employers should have a duty to provide a certain level of decency in a workplace. However, I'm not sure it would include electricity. In my view, the issue should be health and safety, not comforts.

The consumers of coffee beans aren't at fault. The market would be way too inefficient if we expected consumers to determine the behaviors of the suppliers of their retailers. Think about the advertising spent to associate a product with a seller. You think we should associate a supplier with a manufacturer and a product and determine whether the supplier is ethical? That's unrealistic and not going to happen.

No need to provide the list. As you can tell from my posts, I've spent a fair amount of time benefiting third world countries. However, I prefer to do it myself. Most of the "programs" out there are a complete scam. The loopholes these companies find to fleece the market of "charity dollars" is nothing short of astounding. Besides, there are much better causes than the conditions of coffee bean pickers.
post #105 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

The phrase 'turn a blind eye' seems apropos. A very large percentage of their coffee comes from Costa Rica where an extremely large percentage of the coffee is produced by illegal immigrant Nicaraguans who often live in huts without electricity or water. A family consisting of a man, woman and a couple children all pick coffee for 12-14 hours a day and earn together about 10 dollars.

Well, you certainly aren't turning a blind eye to this, are you?
I mean, what are you doing to improve the economic conditions in Nicaragua so these people don't have to sneak across the border into Costa Rica?

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #106 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Firefly7475 View Post

Have you ever actually read anything about the Kin?

The end result was a fantastic little phone and its cloud integration was way ahead of its time.

It would have been a killer "dumb" phone had it not been priced like a smart phone.

Granted, the pricing likely had more to do with development decisions inside Microsoft than anything else, but it doesn't change the fact it was (so very briefly) the best (and most expensive ) dumb phone on the market.

I'll try to dig up a Kin post mortem for you. I guarantee you'll be impressed.

EDIT:
Microsoft's KIN: A Eulogy

All righty. BRING IT!

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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post #107 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I should have viewed your profile earlier. You are so full of shit. Growing up poor in Costa Rica with no electricity. What a load of shit. Your profile says your native language is English and you are a Patent Attorney. Why I wasted so much effort reasoning with a complete asshole makes me ashamed. Good night.

I never said I grew up in Costa Rica. I said I grew up on a farm in the U.S. And yes I was poor, but not Nicaraguan immigrant poor. I never even said I spent a lot of time in Costa Rica. I lived in San Jose for less than a year. I did however live in Mexico for several years amongst some very poor people, only a few of which did not have electricity. I certainly had electricity everywhere I lived (and money to buy a bus pass for the family that didn't have electricity). I'm not sure how that makes me full of shit and my experiences illegitimate. Have you spent YEARS living with people that make less than $1,000 per year. Didn't think so.

So what if I'm a patent attorney. I told you I make more in one month than most Mexicans make in a half decade. You didn't think I made that kind of money picking beans did you.
post #108 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Well, you certainly aren't turning a blind eye to this, are you?
I mean, what are you doing to improve the economic conditions in Nicaragua so these people don't have to sneak across the border into Costa Rica?

When I was living in Costa Rica I lived in an apartment next to a house that employed a Nicaraguan as a maid. I had some lengthly conversations about her experience during the guerrilla wars. She relayed a story about her and her neighbors gathering in a church for protection. The fighters came through shooting the hell out of everything. She had her head down and all she could her was rounds of ammunition from automatic weapons. When they left there were dead people everywhere; on the streets and in their homes. Half of her village was killed for no good reason. When I talked to her she was working long hours for almost nothing in a house in San Pedro near the University of Costa Rica. She had no desire to see her former home town and was pretty content doing what she was doing. Americans think they need to help the Nicaraguans, but the Nicaraguans think they are helping themselves. If you got to know them, you would realize that they are helping themselves. They just have different priorities and perspectives than ya'll.
post #109 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

The Courier existed. But it was a working prototype. I've seen video of it working. It's on the Internet, likely on YouTube. It was apparently the brainchild of, and I've forgotten his name right now, one of the bigwigs in MS, who presented it to Ballmer, who cut the project, and rolled some of it into the Windows division, as happens with most all products there. The guy resigned, supposedly because of that.

Do you mean "Codex"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=049_U...e_gdata_player
post #110 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by skingers View Post

...in part settlement for stealing quicktime code at that...

I know. I came from NeXT over in the merger. At that wasn't it actually. The $150 Million settle was to end a 10 year set of lawsuits by Apple against Microsoft.

Both sides won on the settlement.

By the way, you can thank Steve for making sure QuickTime wasn't sold to Avid. They put a bid for $1.5 Billion and Amelio was pushing for the deal when Fred Anderson and other board members stepped in, got Steve to be iCEO and his first motion was to nix the deal.
post #111 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

EDIT: Sorry, the video is here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WYWGKnVkEw

Yep. Just as Solipsism said, CGI.

Got to thank you for that link though. I would never have found this gem.

"Microsoft Courier Tablet *vs. Apple tablet showdown"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58fxzRV5HY

Three wonderful minutes of our good friend DaHarder telling us why one vapourware product is better than another.
post #112 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by piot View Post

"Microsoft Courier Tablet *vs. Apple tablet showdown"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D58fxzRV5HY

2min:45sec in: “Finally, the Courier seems to accomplish every single problem the rumoured Apple table will have. It’s going to be a battle of the titans when these two are released. This doesn’t mean that Apple’s tablet device can’t catch on or that Courier will dominate the market…”

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post #113 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I've had it with your nonsense. You have no toothbrush and no clean water and you have an infected root on a molar that is so painful you can't even stand up and you think that a hard day's work in the coffee fields will take your mind off it. You are saying that access to healthcare is not important. No immunizations against malaria necessary, walk it off, be a man. You could not be more dispassionate or selfish if you have the means to help correct this but choose to ignore it supposedly for the good life lessons of the individual who suffers. You are a sick human being. Although the latter may be giving you more credit than you deserve.

You sure have mastered the art of an argument ad hominem....

This conversation has nothing to do with malaria. It's about whether coffee bean producers are exploiting Nicaraguans. If this conversation is about malaria why would we be talking about huts with no electricity for bean pickers. Since when were bean pickers plagued with malaria? San Jose Costa Rica is at like 4,000 ft elevation. I've never looked into this, but it seems really unlikely there is a malaria problem in the coffee fields.

You can name call all you want, but it doesn't change the fact that you don't have a clue what Nicaraguans want or need because you only see the world from your isolated perspective and the propaganda from some scam charity. If you don't get to know the people it is really hard to know what they need. For example, you wouldn't know when someone without electricity really needs a bus pass to visit a relative.

Giving something they need is compassionate. Giving them something you want to give is prideful. You are doing it for you, not them. You need something to make you feel good about yourself. That's ok, I'll have compassion on you. You just keep grinding that axe.
post #114 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

2min:45sec in: Finally, the Courier seems to accomplish every single problem the rumoured Apple table will have. Its going to be a battle of the titans when these two are released. This doesnt mean that Apples tablet device cant catch on or that Courier will dominate the market


Heh. Proves the adage: half of winning is just showing up.
Microsoft Courier didn't show up.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #115 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Heh. Proves the adage: half of winning is just showing up.
Microsoft Courier didn't show up.

MS Courier: All snark and no byte
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post #116 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

No need to provide the list. As you can tell from my posts, I've spent a fair amount of time benefiting third world countries. However, I prefer to do it myself. Most of the "programs" out there are a complete scam. The loopholes these companies find to fleece the market of "charity dollars" is nothing short of astounding. Besides, there are much better causes than the conditions of coffee bean pickers.

You are such a self centered asshole that you think buying someone a $3 bus pass constitutes benefiting third world countries. I didn't ask you to donate to a charity I said I have a list of coffee retailers and growers who support the charitable initiatives. You buy their coffee at no additional charge and by doing so support the ethical and moral treatment of workers. Instead you assume there is some scam. You are a scam which is why you are quick to jump to a false conclusion that everyone else is just as much of a greedy son of bitch as you are.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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post #117 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

Hey, they make nice keyboards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhyde View Post

And great mice.
I rue the day I'll not be able to buy a basic two-button wheel mouse from Microsoft for my Mac. Best mouse on the planet.

I still prefer Logitech
post #118 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Solipcism

"You're spelling it wrong"

.......................................

So well, never thought I'd see the day. Apple beating Microsoft in revenue and profit.

Even Stevens? Not even close.

I'm sure the furnishings around Ballmer nowadays are all like those Hollywood stunt props.
post #119 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Every child should have the opportunity for an education, nutrition and healthcare.

Ideally, yes. But there are too many places where that's a dream for the future, not now. While it's nice that you go down there, I guarantee that it's not helping much. It will take a vast amount of money to reform these economies, and a way to end the incredible amount of corruption these governments are partial to. Until then, things will continue the way they are.

We can see a good example of this. east and West germany. west Germany had about 65 million people, and one of the world's largest, and strongest economies. they had more than two thirds of the land. East Germany had about a third of the population, that was educated, but poor. West Germany had an excellent infrastructure, while the East, had an old, falling apart one.

West Germans were wanting a reunification for decades. It finally came. The West wanted to bring the East up to their standards in infrastructure, pay for the people, and general equality of life. To do that, they poured one trillion dollars into East Germany over a period of ten years.

When that period was over, they acknowledged that it was a failure. Even a trillion dollars wasn't enough to even out the two economies, and it still isn't even today.

It will take trillions to make a dent in the economies we're talking about, which is all of Central and South America, and decades, possibly 50 or more years. Until that happens, things will remain much the same as they have been for the past several hundred years.

Your going down there and doing what little you can, while nice, is like giving a beggar a dollar, and thinking you've done something worthy. You haven't. What needs to be done is to make the governments that are part of an oligarchy, understand that it has to stop, and that their people need to have a more equal part in the economic life of their countries. That's far more difficult. When far left wing governments take over, as they have in a few countries down there, things actually get worse.

Meanwhile, families need to put food on the table, and the only way they can feed all their mouths is to make as many of them that can, work. It's sad, but it's still true. And platitudes don't help.
post #120 of 143
Quote:
Originally Posted by ash471 View Post

This conversation has nothing to do with malaria. It's about whether coffee bean producers are exploiting Nicaraguans. If this conversation is about malaria why would we be talking about huts with no electricity for bean pickers. Since when were bean pickers plagued with malaria? San Jose Costa Rica is at like 4,000 ft elevation. I've never looked into this, but it seems really unlikely there is a malaria problem in the coffee fields.

Ngobe indians who do a lot of coffee harvesting travel to and from the highlands to their natural habitant in the jungles at sea level. Dude you do not know who you are dealing with. I have more than 18 years working in this field and much of that time was spent on location in Central America.

Now that we have learned that you are a complete impostor you should STFU.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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