or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Inside Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: Developer Preview 3 dials down animated tabs
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Inside Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: Developer Preview 3 dials down animated tabs - Page 2

post #41 of 113
First of all, thanks AI for live Lion development coverage!

The use of black and grey everywhere makes the UI dull.
Saying they got inspired by iOS, it is not completely correct. When I browse my iPhone and its default apps, only some of them have black and grey icons (gallery and clock) whilst other have blueish UI (mail, settigs...). And it is refreshing not to see the same black-grey whole day. So they got inspired by some selected apps and extrapolated the UI over whole system...

Full screen - I welcome it, as a switcher i ve never got used to the traffic lights which behave strange to me.

iCal - the fake leather is awful.

Removing of the blue tones from switches makes the UI more confusing - its step back. Its okay in iOS where you have simple small screens, but as you can see from the screenshots in the article, when you try to use it on structured form with frames, it becomes less intuitive.

iOS-like scroll bars - i like it and prefer to have them switched on all the time.
post #42 of 113
Not only does the human eye perceive a huge array of colors, we quickly come to reflexively and unconsciously use them as cues for situations, actions, locations, and a host of environmental circumstances. Color can be a subtle and effective way to convey large amounts of information without distraction, clutter, or perception glut. Used well, it also prevents fatigue, focuses attention, and encourages interaction.

Certainly Aqua is overdue for an overhaul, but this isn't so much a haircut as a decapitation. A monochromatic virtual environment is a crippled virtual environment. Lion's inarticulate visuals impress me as quite literally stupid: their ability to convey information is drastically and pointlessly reduced.

This nonsense with tabs appears equally misguided. Good engineering isn't about fixing what isn't broken.

This is the point where marketing becomes destructive... It doesn't have to be better, it doesn't even have to be good. It just has to be new.
post #43 of 113
I agree the button style tab is less confusing than the slider, but now it is inconsistent with radio buttons.

In the bottom screenshot, look at the Speakable Items radio buttons: the highlighted one is bright and blue coloured, and yet the tab above it has the highlighted choice dark.

Remember when tabs were like real tabs (in a looseleaf binder)? Maybe not enough people see looseleaf binders these days.
http://www.lime-office.com.au/img/pr...en/2745u99.jpg
post #44 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Not only does the human eye perceive a huge array of colors, we quickly come to reflexively and unconsciously use them as cues for situations, actions, locations, and a host of environmental circumstances. Color can be a subtle and effective way to convey large amounts of information without distraction, clutter, or perception glut. Used well, it also prevents fatigue, focuses attention, and encourages interaction.

Certainly Aqua is overdue for an overhaul, but this isn't so much a haircut as a decapitation. A monochromatic virtual environment is a crippled virtual environment. Lion's inarticulate visuals impress me as quite literally stupid: their ability to convey information is drastically and pointlessly reduced.

This nonsense with tabs appears equally misguided. Good engineering isn't about fixing what isn't broken.

This is the point where marketing becomes destructive... It doesn't have to be better, it doesn't even have to be good. It just has to be new.

The idea that 'it just has to be new' does not make marketing destructive. Apple OS's have always evolved functionally, stylistically and visually. Lion is the same. If Apple was happy with their OS and just let it be it would effectively go backwards. Within a year or two it would look old.

I don't necessarily love all things Apple - I dislike the blue gray in ios, for instance. I much prefer neutral greys. My theory is that as Apple always strives to minimize and simplify they have deemed color and loud signalling unnecesary. The point is that we KNOW where stuff is. We have been around computers for a while now and we don't need to told where the file menu is, for instance. The fact that it is always in the same place makes life simple. It is about conventions. When you go into a white room you KNOW where the light switch is and you don't complain when that it is white. The itunes school of file management is an accepted convention, for better or worse. I suspect it will stay that way forever and that's fine with me. What Apple is doing is fine tuning and reducing.

Personally I am enjoying this design development. I feel pretty safe in Apple's hands and don't worry about falling off the edge of a cliff. Don't worry so much about the light switches - enjoy the room.
post #45 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhar View Post

What's the use of having a high-def monitor if the sliders and buttons are monochromatic. I hate the new look! What's the obsession with removing colors?? It looks so dull

Probably because Apple thinks that the use of a high-def monitor is NOT to look at the ...sliders and buttons, but rather at your, you know, CONTENT.

Documents, images, web pages, movies, porn collection, you know...
post #46 of 113
Gimmicks for the sake of gimmicks and changing the UI for the sake of justifying your job do nothing to add functionality or improve clarity. Just because they have a core animation tool is not a good reason for using it.

What happened to simple and consistent clarity?
post #47 of 113
I like grey. Most of my desktops are various shades of grey. The days of gel-like aqua buttons are coming to an end. Aqua has been around for more than ten years already. I like less colors in my interfaces and windows, so as far as Lion is concerned, I say bring it on!
post #48 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I like grey. Most of my desktops are various shades of grey. The days of gel-like aqua buttons are coming to an end. Aqua has been around for more than ten years already. I like less colors in my interfaces and windows, so as far as Lion is concerned, I say bring it on!

I don't mind if controls are grey but I think icons should be coloured. The grey sidebar icons in iTunes I find hard to distinguish, and in Lion they are doing the same to Finder.
post #49 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

I don't mind if controls are grey but I think icons should be coloured. The grey sidebar icons in iTunes I find hard to distinguish, and in Lion they are doing the same to Finder.

I like the grey, but I understand why others wouldnt. I dont understand why Apple doesnt a basic monochrome/colored icon option under System Preferences » Appearances for those that want or need the flashier icons.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Reply
post #50 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Probably because Apple thinks that the use of a high-def monitor is NOT to look at the ...sliders and buttons, but rather at your, you know, CONTENT.

Documents, images, web pages, movies, porn collection, you know...

after all the very eloquent arguments here, and the overwhelmingly negative response to this ui direction by pretty much everyone here, do you really think your supposed quip cuts it? Sure we all want to use our CONTENT (sic) the best way possible, and that's precisely why we require colour cues and a proper interface so we can do so more easily, with less fatigue, more intuitively, etc. etc. What you are saying is rather inane, to be blunt, surely the next step for you is to grey everything out, emboss everything out in monochromatic backgrounds, so we can properly focus on content, as if proper (colour coded) ui for navigating said content is superfluous. Buttons, sliders, menus, icons, tabs, sidebars are all there to navigate and use your content, if they get lost in a monochromatic sea and they blend together, guess how well you are going to be using your content...


On another note, wasn't Steve proclaiming how great aqua was and still is and what a staple of os x it was in the lion preview? Wtf has happened since then?
post #51 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I like the grey, but I understand why others wouldnt. I dont understand why Apple doesnt a basic monochrome/colored icon option under System Preferences » Appearances for those that want or need the flashier icons.

Yes, seems like icons could be drawn color but programmatically made greyscale in real time for users who want that. Under Universal Access you can already make the whole screen greyscale in real time.
post #52 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Silly rabbit, candy colors are for kids.

Like this?! and this?!

Apple sure benefited from colors when Steve turned the companies fortunes to Rosie (get it?)! Now maybe Steve is getting a little morbid with his colors because of his present health, but I pray not...
/
/
/

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Reply

Ten years ago, we had Steve Jobs, Bob Hope and Johnny Cash.  Today we have no Jobs, no Hope and no Cash.

Reply
post #53 of 113
I really dislike the new look. Everything is so drab now. Sucks. To each their own.

15" MB Pro Early 2011 (2.0 i7 8GB RAM 240 SSD); ATV 3; iPad 3 (32GB, VZW Black); iPhone 4S (16GB AT&T Black); Airport Extreme (2011)

Reply

15" MB Pro Early 2011 (2.0 i7 8GB RAM 240 SSD); ATV 3; iPad 3 (32GB, VZW Black); iPhone 4S (16GB AT&T Black); Airport Extreme (2011)

Reply
post #54 of 113
There's a perfectly good idiom for this: notebook tabs.

Nothing Apple's done is superior to the existing idiom, including the latest two experiments.

The fact that Apple is fooling around with this solved problem is just sad.
post #55 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

Agree. The slider effect looks nice. Certainly the selected tab ought to be lighter with dark text, the unselected with a darker background. This works with the slider concept and is the cleanest and in my view clearest way of presenting the tab choice. Having the selected tab darker looks wrong to me though I guess it makes sense following a depressed button concept.

You might immediately think that, but after using the sliders in the previous builds, I've come to realise this is completely topsy turvy.

Thank god they have changed it back.

You see the real thing is, that it is actually less important to highlight the current tab. You are on that tab, the rest of the window also confirms that. From a useability perspective, what you want to see in the actual tab bar, is the tabs you are not currently on. The tabs that you can move to are the ones that need to be more readable.
-
all things bright and technical
Reply
-
all things bright and technical
Reply
post #56 of 113
I also see it that way (that the brighter one is selected).
post #57 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Azhar View Post

What's the use of having a high-def monitor if the sliders and buttons are monochromatic. I hate the new look! What's the obsession with removing colors?? It looks so dull

I have an idea they're doing it so the focus is on the content. I like the aqua blue look and was initially sad to see the brushed metal looks go, but I now think that was for the best.

Now that Microsoft et al have effectively "cheapened the brand" by plastering overly glossy textures and transparency effects everywhere (even in places it doesn't make sense to include them!) Apple has to distance themselves from the gaudy sideshow.

This is all about focus, reducing visual distractions and understanding that the weight of visual information projected by particular interface element should be proportional to it's relevance to the task at hand.
post #58 of 113
I don't know why Apple can't simply let users select themes. There's no technical reason why they can't. It would make everyone happy, and not get in the way of anyone nor make it harder/complicated for anyone. Microsoft can do it. You can make Windows 7 looks like classic Windows 95 / 98 again if you wanted to. All supported by Microsoft. So why can't Apple? I personally like the new color, but I do agree, it sucks forcing a new theme on everyone just because they can. Be nice if they just gave us more control/choice.

Also, didn't OS 9 have themes with the appearance manager?
post #59 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

I like the animated tabs, but this is a classic example of where a touch of color would help clue the user which tab is selected especially if there's only 2 tabs. If it's a matter of shades of grey then it's completely arbitrary which one represents selected and which one unselected.

Color. Please.

Goad to see I'm not the only one who thinks that. As simple as it might be to some my brain has trouble which of the two opposite colors means that is the selection.
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
Reply
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
Reply
post #60 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Probably because Apple thinks that the use of a high-def monitor is NOT to look at the ...sliders and buttons, but rather at your, you know, CONTENT.

Documents, images, web pages, movies, porn collection, you know...

Then why not just make them identical to OS 1? Simple, elegant, and monochrome!
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
Reply
Just say no to MacMall.  They don't honor their promotions and won't respond to customer inquiries.  There are better retailers out there.
Reply
post #61 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Not only does the human eye perceive a huge array of colors, we quickly come to reflexively and unconsciously use them as cues for situations, actions, locations, and a host of environmental circumstances. Color can be a subtle and effective way to convey large amounts of information without distraction, clutter, or perception glut. Used well, it also prevents fatigue, focuses attention, and encourages interaction.

Certainly Aqua is overdue for an overhaul, but this isn't so much a haircut as a decapitation. A monochromatic virtual environment is a crippled virtual environment. Lion's inarticulate visuals impress me as quite literally stupid: their ability to convey information is drastically and pointlessly reduced.

This nonsense with tabs appears equally misguided. Good engineering isn't about fixing what isn't broken.

This is the point where marketing becomes destructive... It doesn't have to be better, it doesn't even have to be good. It just has to be new.

I agree. The new interface is not only drab (much like AppleInsider's forums), but also impossible to read the currently selected tab. It is bass ackwards.
post #62 of 113
Thank God they removed the slider tabs! That was the worse. I'm glad the developer previews are working!
post #63 of 113
This behavior was already active in the Finder presentation toggle of the original preview 2. Just when I was beginning to get used to the slider. It was not intuitive but I liked it.
post #64 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

I like the animated tabs, but this is a classic example of where a touch of color would help clue the user which tab is selected — especially if there's only 2 tabs. If it's a matter of shades of grey then it's completely arbitrary which one represents selected and which one unselected.

Color. Please.


The funny thing is that on iOS devices, the on/off sliders are brightly colored when something is switched on.
post #65 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Povilas View Post

Sure it does. They bring back iMac G4 design (to a certain degree), so you can adjust display position to a more touch friendly. So at least for an iMac it makes a lot of sense, just a problem of making OS more touch friendly.

Someone should start keeping a list of all the things Apple will supposedly not do, and include names of those Apple know-it-alls who are saying them.

Apple will not make a video iPod. Nobody wants to watch video on an iPod.

Apple should not allow third parties to create native iPhone applications. Nobody cares about native iPhone applications. Web apps are really sweet.

Apple will not add GPS to the iPhone. Nobody cares about GPS.

Apple will not add copy and paste to the iPhone. Nobody cares about copy and paste.

Apple will not add multitasking to the iPhone. Nobody cares about multitasking.
post #66 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Then why not just make them identical to OS 1? Simple, elegant, and monochrome!

I need to add my 2 cents to this topic since I'm schooled in interface design from a psychology perspective.

I have followed and agreed with Apple's interface guide lines since the original 1984 Mac because it standardized the usability of computers across an industry that had an engineer's mentality. Those old enough too remember know how difficult the system and program learning curve was back then. When users make a determination on wether an interface element is better, or not, that's a personal conclusion from their perspective. It's a slippery slope to unfamiliarity and confusion in computer usability.

Apple brought standardization and familiarity to using computers to the average consumers by dictating the ecosystem and interface. They have made bad choices at times but have succeeded brilliantly overall. We on this forum are not their audience, and we sometime act as hostile as the diehard Windows and Android crowd to Apple dictates. Their audience, the non-technocrat consumer, has given Apple its credit by vastly expanding Apple's revenue profit. I want them to keep doing what they have been doing all along, selling quality and familiarity in computer innovation.

That said, Apple is at a crossroad. A paradigm shift leading to consumer mobility. iOS is their answer to the personal computer market and their audience seems to agree, particular since they are buying more laptops and or iPads to actually replace their desktops. Power users have always been a niche market segment of prosumers and productive business.

At this moment in time Apple has a split personality in interface design. At this crossroad they need to choose what they want to be. The choice is be a consumer orientated company, a business productivity company, or both. iOS can never be MacOS in my opinion because they aren't mutually inclusive to the task and one will suffer from lack of attention or resources. It's never good to be a "Jack of all trades and master of none." It didn't work for Microsoft, GE, or Sony and Apple should not attempt to merge the consumer grade iOS interface into a business class MacOS interface. The hardware design and innovation also must remain separate.

We technocratic power users will choose the hardware and software to personalize our computers to our taste for our task.
post #67 of 113
I also liked the slider like tabs. Sure, it was an adjustment, but why not adjusting to something that's nice. It really looked good and made a lot of sense. Bummer!
post #68 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ljocampo View Post

I need to add my 2 cents to this topic since I'm schooled in interface design from a psychology perspective. [...]

Nice comment! I agree, iOS and MacOS should remain separate. Probably Apple is currently exploring how similar they can make both so that working with both is easy and at the same time keep them separate beasts.
post #69 of 113
I'm not at all happy with the graying of OS X. One of the things that immediately grabbed my attention was the colorful highlighting which made things not only super easy to see but gave the interface a glossy, attractive look. The slow color drain happening to OS X is not at all a good thing in my book. I only hope (against hope and Apple's past practices) that users will be given an option to choose between gray or colorful. I will not be at all happy in a black and white OS.
post #70 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronbo View Post

Sorry friend but this is absurd. Maybe your brain isn't wired to interpret rich information sources, but mine is. Color is an extremely powerful and deep way to provide cues. Flattening out the information layers is desirable only to people with OCD or to people who are shallow enough to think "That's the way we used to do it. This is different. Therefore this is better." is a rational design philosophy.

Also: snark is for amateurs. There's a difference between "color" and "candy colors". (And frankly, just because you mock "candy colors" doesn't make bright colors bad, either. It was used with great skill and beauty in the early days of OS X, and if you think that was an OS for kids, I'd invite you to grow up. Beauty might be enjoyed by children, but it's only fully appreciated by adults. Understand that point, and maybe you'll have taken a small step toward becoming an adult yourself)

Thanks for your post, Ronbo. That saved me the pain to answer that retard! Historically, Apple has used colors: It's what differentiated it from all its competitors (albeit they were quasi-nonexistent). In some regards, I believe Apple is straying from the "right path".

I instantly loved a Mac because of its judicious use of colors, and its exquisite design...
post #71 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

It seems that most of us here get it, but apple designers don't these days, such loss of colour makes for a very dour os, and for a downward spiral in usability, I hope they reverse it along with that crappy slider thing they already reversed.

Enough with the colour-less sidebars and toolbar icons guys, get it that nobody likes it and start focusing on the real issues with the os, we don't really care for interface jackass tweaks.

STOP TAKING AWAY AQUA ELEMENTS, WE 'VE GROWN TO REALLY LIKE THEM. We don't want os x to be ios, we don't want a lifeless os, there's enough grey already on the macs, and on the os to not add more colourless subdued elements.

Lion has a chance to be really great if you don't go pandering after the ios croud. We couldn't care less about minor yet backward interface a la ios tweaks....

So focus on real os improvements.

How about some resolution independence?

How about a functioning filevault?

How about proper 2011 cloud integration as opposed to the buggy as hell idisk?

And how about fixing hfs+, a couple o years ago we were still hoping for zfs, now that's off the table at least improve somehow the filesystem, is that what the world's most advanced os should have? I don't think so...

...and no, full screen apps is not really great, it's a tad better than the windoze f11 key, that's all. welcome, but nothing to write home about.

Stop messing with aqua elements we know and love, or at least put the new tweaks in as options, and start with the real annoyances of the os...

I applaud, and second your discourse! It seems to me that Apple has forgot who helped it survive during the harshest years: it was the wonderful Mac community!

I'm sick with the overwhelming attention the iDevices get (put apart the iPad- I really love it, and believe it is a revolution), while the Mac is left alone, albeit a few "updates" and "tweaks" every now and then...

iLife'11 was such a disappointed for me. The "new features" weren't that much enticing and exciting! Actually, in some areas, Apple regressed! Initially, you may recall, the "zoom slider" disappeared. if you wanted to zoom in a photo, you had to click on Edit first. What about iWeb?? No updates whatsoever!! And what about iWork????!! I love iWork! What about the issues with Keynote for iPad, and its inconsistencies!??
post #72 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by myapplelove View Post

amen, couldn't have said it better, and I 've tried to.

Amen, twice!
post #73 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I don't understand why people keep insisting that future macs will have touch screens. It makes no sense and they wont.

Exactly! I can't imagine people moving their hands all around in the air to navigate in the OS; and that too all day long!!

Even Apple (Phil Schiller) admitted that in one of Apple's product video!

How silly! If those people want a touch-screen enabled device, they just have to buy an iPad!

It's about ERGONOMICS and USABILITY!
post #74 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by rbryanh View Post

Not only does the human eye perceive a huge array of colors, we quickly come to reflexively and unconsciously use them as cues for situations, actions, locations, and a host of environmental circumstances. Color can be a subtle and effective way to convey large amounts of information without distraction, clutter, or perception glut. Used well, it also prevents fatigue, focuses attention, and encourages interaction.

Certainly Aqua is overdue for an overhaul, but this isn't so much a haircut as a decapitation. A monochromatic virtual environment is a crippled virtual environment. Lion's inarticulate visuals impress me as quite literally stupid: their ability to convey information is drastically and pointlessly reduced.

This nonsense with tabs appears equally misguided. Good engineering isn't about fixing what isn't broken.

This is the point where marketing becomes destructive... It doesn't have to be better, it doesn't even have to be good. It just has to be new.

You're my hero!!
post #75 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rot'nApple View Post

Like this?! and this?!

Apple sure benefited from colors when Steve turned the companies fortunes to Rosie (get it?)! Now maybe Steve is getting a little morbid with his colors because of his present health, but I pray not...
/
/
/

post #76 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by razorpit View Post

Then why not just make them identical to OS 1? Simple, elegant, and monochrome!



ROFL
post #77 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonjik View Post

First of all, thanks AI for live Lion development coverage!
Removing of the blue tones from switches makes the UI more confusing - its step back.

This. UI is horrible and to top it off you cant customize it. Windows is way more advanced in terms of UI design and customization.
post #78 of 113
The problem is not graying the UI. You can take Aqua and make it look incredibly good in grayscale if you wish. So, the problem is not gray vs color... the problem is that they're copying Gnome.

To those who say that Aqua needed to evolve... so... do you believe the evolution was in the direction of Gnome with a grain of MS Windows?

That's not my idea of evolution.

OS 9 to OSX was evolution (true, a lot of OS 9 users were unhappy with Aqua, but nobody questioned that Aqua was an awesome development)

The UI in Lion is not an evolution. It's getting the latest Gnome release and trying to get inspiration from them

When I'll install Lion, and I do a presentation, I guess I know what a part of the audience will say: "Look, he uses Linux!"

The Apple UI is no longer a different UI
post #79 of 113
So... hmm... what's the latest planned release date for OSX-Gnome ^H^H^H^H^H Lion?

(just asking for knowing when will the audience say "look he uses Linux!" whenever I use a display projector in a room)
post #80 of 113
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecs View Post

The Apple UI is no longer a different UI

I guess all conspiracy theories have to have at least one follower.

Edit your posts instead of double-posting.

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply

Originally posted by Marvin

Even if [the 5.5” iPhone] exists, it doesn’t deserve to.
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Inside Mac OS X 10.7 Lion: Developer Preview 3 dials down animated tabs