Bin Laden is dead - Page 5

Stop bitching already! You can thank Bush Jr the idiot who got us into these wars and never even got OBL since 9-11.

The loss of innocent life...meaning civilians is regrettable. They are not the intended targets. The loss of life due to a terrorist attack is far worse.

I don't think there's much of a difference to those who have been killed or their loved ones who are left to mourn them.

Thank goodness Obama has gotten us out of Bush's wars and not started any others.

I think it's gotten to the point that The State no longer needs a guy like OBL to be their Emmanuel Goldstein.

They can just utter the word "terrorism" and people are willing to bend over and let them do whatever they want.

The important result of this "raid" is not the death of OBL - it is the vast stores of information the government claims they found at OBL's compound.

They will be raising new "terror alerts" for years claiming it resulted from this find.

Another thing I've been thinking about: if so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques" (torture) were instrumental in finding OBL...why would they execute him in front of his family instead of capturing him alive and using these "enhanced interrogation techniques" (torture) on him to obtain even more information to "fight terrorism"?

I wouldn't be surprised if they executed him, but that's not the official story. How can you be so sure they "executed" him?

Most accounts agree he was unarmed.

If he was unarmed, what kind of resistance could he have offered that would have required 2 bullets in his head?

He didn't put his hands up. \

The US in general seems to approaching a point where absolute and immediate obedience and compliance to authorities is expected. This is becoming increasingly obvious in domestic law enforcement and "security" (e.g., TSA, etc.)

What I'm really angry about is that Seal Team 6 didn't have a search warrant before they entered the alleged Bin Laden compound.

They may have believed he was trying to get a gun, run for it, whatever. All of those things could have posed real security risks for Seal 6 and even meant he might have got away somehow. Supposing the place was booby trapped and Osama just had to press a button and for the whole building to blow up.

Great...now we're coming up with all kinds of speculative reasons to justify what was done.

Well...good...the sheeple are in line.

Yea good thing Obama has kept us out of wars in the middle east over oil engaging known sponsors of terrorism risking blowback and retaliation.

[cough]Libya[/cough]

I really try to keep an open mind, but for Gods sake, you weren't there!

No I wasn't. And I have no idea whether I have any reason to trust the people who were there (or watching on live video feeds) and what they're claiming happened, why and to whom.

He may have summoned pink unicorns to appear and impale the American troops with their horns.

Why are we speculating about this?

One account said there was a "firefight".

Okay, so if there was a firefight, why do we not hear of any American troops being killed or wounded?

Well the details have been scant and they've changed, but the official version seems to tally up with photos, his wives account etc. By all means question it, but I don't see how anyone as yet can call it an "execution".

OK.

I love how the left questioned almost everything when Bush was president...but now...well...sure we should question...buuuut...

I really don't think it's appropriate to use humour like that when your discussing what Seal 6 did and the dangers they exposed themselves to.


I don't have all the info on this so I suggest you use Google or Sammi for more info.

I also call it an execution when police kill unarmed citizens here in the states.

Man you people are bunch of douchebags. This wasn't a drug raid. They weren't executing a warrant.

[douchebag]Bin Laden was unarmed and posed no threat to highly trained seal team. He may or may not been going for a weapon but without independent confirmation how are we to know? We only know what the government media complex wants us to know. His kids tell a different story. blah fucking blah I know best boo fucking hoo for human rights. We make terrorists faster than we kill them.[/douchebag]





Seal Team 6 gets a free beer on me.

Nice.



And now everyone's referring to "Seal Team 6" like they are they're best buddies. Priceless.

I liked them before they killed Bin Laden.

Oh yeah? You knew them? Hung out with them? Or have you just read the jingoistic press releases and propaganda of a government that loves its citizens idolizing and adoring its military and killing specialists?

It wasn't an attempt at humor.

The point is we are speculating about this because our government has released about 5 different versions of the events surrounding OBL's death.

I think this is intentional.

And it really makes me wonder what The State is doing now that required such a big distraction.

Indeed. The nationalistic propaganda that is being spewed about our "war on terror" is not much different in purpose than these:

USA! USA! USA! Hooo Rah! (is that what the seals say, IDK)

You're twisted in knots aren't ya.


USA! USA! USA!

Not at all. Is this what you assume about people that disagree with you?

I don't know whether this was intentional, but it certainly appeared very unprofessional, perhaps so much that it must have been deliberate. I can't think why though, because it makes Obamas administration look bad in the voters eyes and surely they didn't want that.

I really haven't followed it all closely enough to know what's going on. Just some quick readings on The Guardian etc and a tiny bit of tv.

You're not upset with the us apes and our jingoistic ranting? Look at our dumb bloodlust!

Yep. \

Obviously. No one is arguing that. I'm saying I'm far more concerned about American casualties in a terrorist attack than I am about those who lose their lives accidentally in a legitimate military operation. It's still loss of life, but it's not the same. It's like comparing a death from a traffic accident to that of a murder. Families are devastated either way, but there are obvious differences.


Yes, agreed. And how interesting that the anti-war movement has totally fallen apart. That's because it was crap to begin with. Much of it was stirred up by Bush's political opposition. Much of it was comprised of people that have talked themselves into excusing Obama's actions while lambasting Bush's actions. It's the epitome of a double standard.



See sammi. You guys can wallow together.

Obama, er, sorry I really mean Osama, LIVES TO FIGHT ANOTHER DAY! (at least according to some)-

"The most obvious effect of this statement from al-Qaida is to kill off some if not all of the rapidly multiplying conspiracy theories claiming Bin Laden is not dead. A poll published in Pakistan shows that 66% of people believe the man killed was not Osama bin Laden. Now, the only way to maintain that belief is to dismiss the al-Qaida statement as false."
~ http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...ysis-statement

A pity the conclusive evidence of his death was "buried at sea", isn't it?

I don't know, ask his wives and kid.

Yes, let's take them at their word. Let's take the government at its word.

For the sake of a few conspiracy theorists, more dead soldiers? No thanks.

One can condense 2 main points from SDW's post (amongst others)

(1) He does not believe in due process of law, of which a fair trial is a cornerstone. No matter who one is, or where one is from, the purpose of a trial is to establish guilt or innocence. Then you mete out the punishment, in response to the outcome of that trial.

What has been done with OBL is to *pronounce* him guilty, not under the microscope of a public trial, but using an endless, hysterical, media campaign. It sort of works "in a way", because endless media repetition will establish a very powerful psychological impression of guilt, regardless of the reality, or otherwise, of guilt.

So, when someone (such as OBL) has been vilified so intensely, for so long, and the population has been so thoroughly convinced of his guilt, just on the quantity of material put forth on the media and official sources, regardless of quality, anyone who refers to "first principles" re. the actuality of guilt or innocence, is shouted down.

And when the alleged crime is as heinous as what the accused is assumed guilty of, then the volume of the "kill him, (crucify him?), regardless"... becomes deafening .... and the actuality of guilt or innocence becomes irrelevant, an afterthought, a distraction, in other words, something that shouldn't be questioned.

Yes. Something that shouldn't be questioned. That is correct: you must not ask questions, or cast doubt. Doubt is heresy, and heresy in itself is a terrible sin. Because, we all know that asking questions is also unpatriotic, because, as SDW knows only to well, our elected leaders always tell the truth about everything, and so does the corporate media.

Yes, they do. Don't they, SDW.

(2) He is bothered that America, the "sole superpower" is not leading enough in the world.

First off, the US is not the world's sole superpower. China is right up there, both economically and militarily. China bankrolled the Iraq and Afghanistan wars, and the US is in vast debt to China. What will happen when (a) China calls in that debt, and (b) the dollar ceases to become the world's reserve currency, a uniquely privileged position that has protected the US from the raging inflation and resulting currency devaluation that would have beset any other nation in such equivalent, astronomical debt? Said superpower becomes something different, ie not very super at all. Yes, SDW, there are penalties for trying to build empires... and I am sure you realize who, in the end, will be paying for it.

Although we are not the world's sole superpower, we do like to project that power militarily. How many wars have we started, or gotten involved in, which had had nothing to do with protecting our Constitution, and our borders from invasion, since WWII? The list is endless. How many dictators have we emboldened, supported, funded or installed? the list is endless. How many elected democracies have we toppled in favor of some "useful thug"? Quite a lot. How many nations' financial systems have collapsed as a result of the forceful imposition of the US led neoliberal "Friedmanite" monetary scam, causing abject poverty and misery for billions, while a handful of banking élites become fabulously wealthy as a result of their criminal conduct? Quite "a lot". How many terrorist scum have we protected, and terrorist groups have we supported, who do *our* dirty work in the world? That list is truly endless.

This is the stuff that we do in the world that the likes of SDW support, and the media crow about.

The US, however, does do vast amount of humanitarian, charitable work in the world. We still lead the world in inventiveness. We do all manner of great things which are largely unrecognized or talked about in the media... perhaps this is because it doesn't involve blowing things up, killing people, amassing personal fortunes or worshipping of vapid celebrities. And we all know what sells media copy... war, death, destruction (natural and manmade), terror and fame.

^ When are you two getting married?

So far, there have been numerous versions of what happened at that compound. Logic dictates that only one version could be true. Logic also dictates that lies have been told. Logic also implies that it is also possible that *every* version that has emanated from the Obama White House could have been false. Why the multiplicity of different stories, when it comes down to something as simple as a raid on a house which kills one of the occupants, a person who was unarmed and could not return fire? What is so damned complicated about that, when it comes down to getting the facts and story consistent? The police conduct house raids all over the country, often where there are armed people inside... and violence results... but how often do these everyday cases see such a wild divergence of how events happened?

Logic dictates that the Obama administration has lied about this event, at least once. And when we know that people have lied, then *EVERYTHING* that issues from their lying mouths MUST be treated with skepticism, and the contempt it deserves. What happens in court when a witness is discovered to have lied? The judge kicks his "testimony" into the "swing-top filing cabinet", where it belongs.

Doesn't anyone get it yet?