Bin Laden is dead - Page 2

Possibly. But given how many things that were bad under Bush suddenly became ok under Obama. Given how the general reactions from the left over similar or nearly identical events and circumstances under both administrations elicited very different reactions...I'm going to call BS.



I don't speak for others or pretend to know their intentions and motives.

Agreed 100%

First, I don't trust you. Second, it didn't happen, so how could there be a genuine reaction and reference to look up? Third, if there is such as you claim, provide the link(s).

So are you saying my reaction is BS? I've always said why haven't we found the guy resposible for 911. I really don't care who it was just so justice was served. Look at my first reaction compared to trumpy's in this thread. I think it's pretty clear.


Well their words seem to indicate a direction. But liked I've said it's why I'm weaning myself away from this place. I wouldn't be posting now except this is a major event.

Don't you love how MJ insists on answering questions with questions? I sure do. Oh wait, did I say love? I meant grow a pair and answer a question. His poverty thread awaits.

No re-read the posts. I was saying that your claim that the reaction would have been the same is BS.



This is interesting. You don't think we know who's really responsible for 9/11, and you don't really care who it was, but you're glad this guy is dead and you think this is a sign that justice was served?

Do I have that right?

Well don't hold your breath unless you're fond of the color blue.

I am fond of the color blue, but not on my face.

No you don't have it right at all. Read again. OSBL has admitted he was responsible. Yes I think it was him. I only care that someone got him. Not who. How you could get anything else out of my post is really amazing.

I do think your reaction was predictable however.

I re-read your post and I see that I did mis-read it. Sorry.

According to US officials over the years, OBL was the leader of "al Qaeda", responsible for bombings in Africa, and elsewhere. Possibly the wanted man in all history. By all rights and expectations, if we were to believe the hype, he would have been a mine of valuable intelligence about not just his own alleged group "al Qaeda", but other related groups in the Islamic militant fraternity worldwide.

So instead of milking the jackpot, the military disposed of his body... "in accordance with the customs and traditions of Islam.... as we all know so well, American soldiers always take the sensitivities of Muslims into account.

Careful interrogation over a lengthy period could have revealed valuable information about possible future terror attacks, and the identity of fellow terrorists. The rigorous forensic examination of the "mansion" in Abbottabad where he was killed could have also revealed a wealth of information on "al Qaeda". But instead, the house was burned to the ground.

Bin Laden was a potential wealth of Intel about terrorist groups, how he eluded capture so long, and who the hijackers were, through interrogation and cross examination at a trial. Bin Laden walked with a cane. Anyone on JSOC could have outrun him. They could have surrounded the mansion. Cops and FBI Agents often bring in criminals who shoot back, alive, to stand trial. That's what bringing someone to justice means.

And btw, the JSOC sharpshooters who killed him now cannot claim that $25 million reward... and the additional $2 million from the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.

++++

from the FBI's most wanted page:

USAMA BIN LADEN

Murder of U.S. Nationals Outside the United States; Conspiracy to Murder U.S. Nationals Outside the United States; Attack on a Federal Facility Resulting in Death

REWARD: The Rewards For Justice Program, United States Department of State, is offering a reward of up to $25 million for information leading directly to the apprehension or conviction of Usama Bin Laden. An additional $2 million is being offered through a program developed and funded by the Airline Pilots Association and the Air Transport Association.

Usama Bin Laden is wanted in connection with the August 7, 1998, bombings of the United States Embassies in Dar es Salaam, Tanzania, and Nairobi, Kenya. These attacks killed over 200 people. In addition, Bin Laden is a suspect in other terrorist attacks throughout the world.
Bin Laden is the leader of a terrorist organization known as Al-Qaeda, "The Base". He is left-handed and walks with a cane.

Not a solitary word about 9/11 from the Feds. Because, according to the FBI, there is (was) no solid evidence linking OBL to that incident. Hence no indictment by the Justice Dept.

I didn't forget it at all. I said quite clearly and still uniformly note that if you support the right of government to declare what people can and cannot do with their property via zoning and other types of land use nad control laws, then you've got to accept the tyranny of that majority in all matters, not just matters where you want to show your religions tolerance with a feel good intention pin.

So as I said then, and as I say now, get back to me when these same ignorant and loud Americans allow a Walmart to be built.

Clearly, by your reasoning, they aren't allowing Walmart to be built because they think Walmart conspired to make 9/11 happen.



Oh Jimmac, you have me wiping away tears. Didn't you see the smilies? Suggesting that Obama did this to "wag the dog" and improve his poll numbers was a joke. I said it was ludicrous to suggest it. Then you go and prove the point by reciting the same tired and completely unproven claims about Bush that you went on and on about for eight years. By not getting the joke, you become the joke. A bit sad really....


When you provide a justification for an action, then you support the action. You declared that the exact same actions, when undertaken with someone with a Democratic label for party didn't yield the same results. Folks of your nature went a lot further than just "not supporting" Bush. He was declared to be a warmonger, a war criminal, a big oil man who was allowing his cronies to bleed the U.S. dry via $5 gas.

Now see, I never claimed Bush was a dirty oil man bleeding us dry nor a war criminal nor warmonger. Thus I need not assign those labels to Obama.

I'd love to see posts like say, THIS ONE. Can we look forward to you declaring that Obama has violated the Geneva convention and ought to be put on trial for treason in the U.S. and then turned over to international courts as a war criminal?

I look forward to future posts like THIS ONE. I'll be happy to see that the debt the president lied about and that future generations must pay down is an impeachable offense as is lying to the American Public, keeping acts like the Patriot Act or FISA in effect, etc.

You were willing to throw that half claim out that Obama wasn't even creating future terrorists while undertaking three wars in three different Islamic countries. "It's okay, because his drones and troops didn't commit any atrocities. The drones didn't kill any civilians."

Ummm...... yes they did. Everything is the same. I called war a dirty business then and now. The way you stop getting your hands dirty is to stop playing the game. Folks of your ilk are still claiming they can just play the game better and smarter than "retarded monkeys" like Bush.


You've got an amen from me on that!


I did. You're lying.


You make some good points Sammi, but the main point which the lefties on here have completely flipped their brains off about is that they declared that when encountering combatants such as this was that they should be treated as criminals and given a trial. Ever poster on these forums that declared Gitmo should be closed, and that we should treat this as a criminal matter and not a war matter should be hanging their heads in shame because President Obama didn't want him grabbed and questioned in a nice safe and humane manner for whatever information he cared to voluntarily give up while being accorded his full array of rights. Instead he ordered a bullet be put through his brain.

The hypocrisy with all of this though is Bush called it what it is, a war on terror. Even if you don't agree with all the particulars, it is a war. Obama and many on here are the people who declare those conducting the war are blood thirsty warmongers. Then they go and start another one or two of them, explode the deficit and order a bullet through their brain while heading out for another round of golf.

The hypocrisy has to be making them sick.

While knuckle draggers were hysterically spewing birth certificate conspiracy theories last week, Obama was getting Bin Laden.

If this doesn't make the tea partiers realize how incredibly stupid their whole act is, nothing will.

BTW, 8 years ago to the day: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2003_Mi...plished_speech

well, there isn't going to be any withdrawl of any troops, for obvious reasons - A new bogeyman will be created to keep us (well not me, I dont give a shit) in fear...else the private companies eh, fascist government, that benefits from the war economy will stand to lose billions...

We should make bets as to who the new bogeyman will be...

Sure there are words. stupid. Idiotic. Moronic. Hasty. Tasteless. Careless. Pick one or more of the previous depending on whether you thought this was a typo or something intentional.

Before you do, I have caught people on these boards here making the exact same error when speaking of Obama or Osama.

However, the update was even more odd saying president Obama shot. How did they get there seems to show a knee jerk reaction to the origional typo. With something like that, one needs to check the facts before rushing to announce.

Sigh.

Obama got him? After all these years they finally started looking? And Bush really wasn't looking? What point are you trying to make? The military is given orders and they operate based on orders. As does the CIA. I do not believe those orders are any different than they were before. Find Osama and bring him to justice. Dead or alive has always been the public statement.

Whatever your point, I hope that this news will have a positive effect on the wars we are now in. Shut them down and bring the men home if we can.

Look, I understand that for many people, this brings some closure to the trauma over the 9/11 attack.

But crowds cheering the death of a human being - any human being - is truly sickening.

Liberals, if Bush had made the same press conference four years ago, how would you have reacted? Make sure your reaction today is exactly the same.

Oh wait, too late, never mind (except Sammy, she is consistent).

I did? I tell you what. Show me where I did that and I will give you a million dollars. YOU. FUCKING. LIAR.

Now shut up with the lies about me, and stop telling me what I do and don't believe, thanks.

Yes, if Obama deliberately assassinated Bin Laden then he should be brought to justice, as this is against US and international law. If Obama deliberately assassinated Ghadafi's son (in an attempt to assassinate Ghadafi, a day after the man had fucking offered a truce), then the same should apply.

Bin Laden died nearly a decade ago. WRT this week's "death" of a man who was already dead, Obama is playing the same game the Republicans have been playing, and I would be happy as hell if he's called out on it. We need to stop ALL the lies. We also need a real Democrat in the White House, who will stick to his fucking guns and not sell out to the Conservatives who are ruining the US and making it a really REALLY fucked up place to live for the majority of people.

On 9/11 the palestinians cheered in the streets and threw candy to children. At least Bin Laden was actually a bad person. Evil doer if you will.

It is, how do you say, downright uncivilized. It is also ironic given the correct indignation over similar celebrating that occurred by some in the middle eastern world on the day of 9/11.

So...idiots come in all shapes, sizes, flavors, colors, religious and political affiliations.

Sad indeed.

Apparently not.



Of course, Bush knew it was most likely he was already dead. But it was more valuable to those who wanted to perpetuate not just the war, but the fear of the terrorist "bogey man", to spread the idea that he might still be alive.

Yes, but you expect that from Palestinians, Afghans, Somalis and government-sponsored Iranians.

This is the Western world. America and Canada, at the very very least, have higher standards.
Murder is not to be celebrated. Period.

This is what happens in a society when the Church is on the sidelines, the government runs the schools and complete morons run the media.

Since Obama does not wish to perpetuate any scary bogeymen, we'll expect a fairly quick stand-down and withdrawal from Afghanistan, a scale back of TSA and end of the PATRIOT act. I'll expect an announcement of these actions soon from the administration. The first two are easily within its control. The third is not of course, but it can try and state its intentions to repeal it.

I posted the quotes. You spent years declaring that Bush should be put on trial for warcrimes, was a warmonger, and should be held for trial for treason, impeached, warcrimes, etc.

I'll be happy to see the post where you demanded or even eluded to this for Obama. Instead you make justifications and simply "disagree" with him. It is pure hypocrisy.


Hey, we finally have it down here for the first time. Nice resigned tone there Tonton. I guess your anger still needs to see an (R) to truly get the dander up.


Perhaps you should take off your blinders and realize it isn't a conservative thing then if it is what the liberals do as well. Again there was a reason they had to call it neocon. It was a new type of conservatism different from the norm which practices isolationism and avoidance of being a cop for the world. They didn't need a neoliberal label for it because liberals and have been using armies to undertake the will of the people for hundreds of years now. I know this is hard to understand because you've got that large wall keeping all the Chinese peasants out while you enjoy your high rise and universal health care, but more people died under Mao than ever died under Bush. Even if it is NEW to conservatism, it is old to liberalism. Once you take off your blinders you can see that and start calling the same actions what they happen to be rather than seeing them as intentions. If you're really lucky no one will even note you're a racist for wanting to send Obama to jail or put him on trial.

I only say that because you've not claimed Obama is deliberately lying about what happened with Osama Bin Laden, yet you declare those who would question his birth place to be racist. Don't you know if you question government sources about their facts and specifically Obama about his facts then that makes you a racist? You're a proud member of the club now.

Say it loud and proud, you're a racist, you're a racist!

Did it make you sick when the BBC and Norah O'Donnell did it too?

It's not murder, this is a war zone and Bin Laden declared war on the US. The men who raided the compound are not murders.

Nancy Pelosi, press conference, September 7, 2006:

[E]ven if [Osama bin Laden] is caught tomorrow, it is five years too late. He has done more damage the longer he has been out there. But, in fact, the damage that he has done ... is done. And even to capture him now I don't think makes us any safer.

Nancy Pelosi, earlier today:

The death of Osama bin Laden marks the most significant development in our fight against al-Qaida. ... I salute President Obama, his national security team, Director Panetta, our men and women in the intelligence community and military, and other nations who supported this effort for their leadership in achieving this major accomplishment. ... [T]he death of Osama bin Laden is historic....

Okay, fine. Killings are not to be celebrated.

You see: if what they are telling us had a solitary ring of truth and reality to it, the entire operation would have been conducted completely differently.

Trumpy, and everyone, OBL was a creation, a powerful phantom. His image, shown repetitively 24/7 in the Church of the Corporate Media, was used to herd the unwitting American people. In the wake of 9/11, the public were in a state of psychological "shock and awe", and voluntarily gave up decades of hard-won rights and liberties, to universally knee-jerk into supporting an endless "war on terror", a war as unwinnable as a "war on bad weather". Without a "shock and awe" event, a "global war on terror" was an absurd concept, utterly unsellable to the American people, a public with a collective sense of rationality.

Overcoming this huge obstacle required a transformation of public's collective rational state, in favor of a collective emotional psychological state. The same type of idea, albeit nowhere near as "in our face" was used to con the public into supporting "Operation Desert Storm" 10 years prior. By the cleverly using a carefully fabricated story (made by advertising consultants Hill and Knowlton) about "Saddam's troops hauling Kuwaiti babies out of incubators to die on the cold hard floor", the GHW Bush Administration, as if by magic, transformed overwhelming public hostility against war, to 90% support for it, by appealing to the public's collective emotional, rather than rational, state.

By the time the "war on terror" started, the public were in a slackjawed state of unquestioning obeisance, courtesy of witnessing the intentional mass murder of thousands of people in NYC, broadcast live, first thing in the morning. We were all shocked and awed... I recall it vividly , as I am sure all of us do. At a stroke, as if by magic, the world's most open society was transformed into a throng of fearful, obedient, straitjacketed masses. Free inquiry, skepticism and open conversation, once king, was suddenly as if by magic, declared off limits. The media's duty, which in a truly free an open society, is watchdog for we the people, suddenly became, as if by magic, a pathetic, parroting lapdog for the powers-that-be.

People who wanted a rational response to a criminal act, and a full investigation, were name-called as unpatriotic, and regarded as traitors. It was comforting; our nanny government became our surrogate mommy, promising to protect us against a universal enemy, which had become the oh-so-convenient replacement for the then recently defunct and much ballyhooed "communist threat". The decades-long preconditioning of the American public (by Hollywood, the media, government agencies et al) into mistrust and hatred for Muslim Middle easterners served to cement the publics' baying for death and destruction, no questions asked.

It was so easy to jump on the revenge bandwagon. All it required was a bachelor's degree in Ostrichology, a masters degree in "Follow my Leader", a PhD in Intellectual Cowardice, and the gall to accuse doubters of wearing tinfoils hats, when the real conspiracy loons were the the weasels and shills for authoritarianism and corruption, who were too cowardly to step up to the plate when their country so badly needed them.

Every time I see her I can only two things I can think are, "fake or real" and "seems like the botox went a little too deep".

Let's be honest here trumptman, finding Nancy Pelosi in a contradiction, exhibiting hypocrisy or some other kind of idiocy is about as difficult as, well...as finding Barack Obama in a contradiction, exhibiting hypocrisy or some other kind of idiocy. It's kinda like shooting fish in a barrel. You need to challenge yourself a bit more next time.

I saw one time where she was going on about global warming and CO2 emissions and how we had to move to solar, wind, natural gas ...

Man MJ, now you've totally ruined my next post which was noting that burial rituals in Islam say nothing about tossing people into the ocean within 24 hours.


I read several other sources and basically the 24 hour rule might honor the timeline but while basically dishonoring every other custom or rite so it seems like a ridiculous excuse to not have a body.

Anyone know how some Repubs and the Tea Party are taking this news, given who's POTUS?

Who cares? Aren't there more important issues to be concerned with? We can start to move beyond the trivial by starting to move beyond the trivial.

Not so fast MJ. There's a large part of America that thinks very derogatively about Muslims and who think Obama is Muslim. You may well be smarter than that, but a lot aren't.

See here- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiqCCHCD4m8

Yes. And? There are indeed a lot of people who are ill-informed and even smugly so on a number of things. What can be done about this? What are you doing about this? What does wondering about a certain, specfic group's response to this particular event do to solve the problem you've highlighted?

Not so fast MJ, I found this video that totally confirms that most people think President Obama is an alien from MARS!!!

How can we move beyond this when that scary music is playing!?!?!??!!