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Canada Votes...again!

post #1 of 18
Thread Starter 
We love democracy here in Canada, so we're having our fourth Federal Election in seven years. Yes, you read that right.

Polls will start closing soon, and we'll find out whether we have another minority (and go back to the polls within a couple years) or a Conservative majority.

For those south of the border who don't know what's going on:

The Liberal party (Canada's version of the Democrats) have collectively pounded their elitist brains into a brick wall by forcing an election that nobody wanted. They also forgot to check whether anybody actually wanted to vote for them. They are set to fall back to third party status, and may not even exist for long after that. This is the party that ruled Canada for most of its existence. It has never been less than Official Opposition.

The Conservatives (headed by Stephen Harper) are fighting for a majority government, having done a generally okay job during the recession (Tax-Free Savings Accounts, Reduction of the national sales tax) but having to kow-tow to the opposition meant they ran up a huge "stimulus" deficit that now needs to be repaid. And that G8/G20 Summit might have been necessary, but it was a fiscal disaster.

The New Democratic party is now, unbelievably, poised to be the Official Opposition. This is a party so far to the left of the Democrats it cannot be explained in a single post. They are gaining votes from both the Liberals and the Bloc. This is largely an anti-Harper voting strategy, because few in their right minds will actively vote for a fantasy Cap and Trade program that adds 10 cents a litre to a tank of Gas at this point in history.

The Bloc Quebecois, a separatist party in Quebec, is poised for big losses after its leader said he would pursue separatism in his next mandate. The NDP has promised everything the Bloc wants, while working inside the federal system. And Quebecers seem to be responding to that. The NDP doesn't have a reliable ground game in the province though, so the Bloc will probably win most close contests.

The Green Party is essentially irrelevant.

My prediction: A Conservative majority with the NDP official opposition.

Any thoughts? Local insights from voting Canucks?
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #2 of 18
Thread Starter 
Also, it is illegal for Canadians to report poll results before polls close across the country.

That's going to be interesting to watch. Can't see how FaceBook/Twitter users can really be stopped.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #3 of 18
Thread Starter 
Wow. Do we still have other Canadians on the board?

Anyway, Conservative majority and NDP opposition. The Liberals have been thoroughly humbled.

The Separatists - just like on Star Wars - have been vanquished.

Should be an interesting four years.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #4 of 18
I'm not Canadian Frank but do admire what the government there has done. It is literally the inverse tale of what is happening in the U.S. A conservative government is leading an economic rebound. The currency is getting stronger. As you note the separatists are disappearing and the outright majority. Build up those borders. You don't want all your broke American neighbors jumping the border.

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #5 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

We love democracy here in Canada, so we're having our fourth Federal Election in seven years. Yes, you read that right.

Polls will start closing soon, and we'll find out whether we have another minority (and go back to the polls within a couple years) or a Conservative majority.

For those south of the border who don't know what's going on:

The Liberal party (Canada's version of the Democrats) have collectively pounded their elitist brains into a brick wall by forcing an election that nobody wanted. They also forgot to check whether anybody actually wanted to vote for them. They are set to fall back to third party status, and may not even exist for long after that. This is the party that ruled Canada for most of its existence. It has never been less than Official Opposition.

The Conservatives (headed by Stephen Harper) are fighting for a majority government, having done a generally okay job during the recession (Tax-Free Savings Accounts, Reduction of the national sales tax) but having to kow-tow to the opposition meant they ran up a huge "stimulus" deficit that now needs to be repaid. And that G8/G20 Summit might have been necessary, but it was a fiscal disaster.

The New Democratic party is now, unbelievably, poised to be the Official Opposition. This is a party so far to the left of the Democrats it cannot be explained in a single post. They are gaining votes from both the Liberals and the Bloc. This is largely an anti-Harper voting strategy, because few in their right minds will actively vote for a fantasy Cap and Trade program that adds 10 cents a litre to a tank of Gas at this point in history.

The Bloc Quebecois, a separatist party in Quebec, is poised for big losses after its leader said he would pursue separatism in his next mandate. The NDP has promised everything the Bloc wants, while working inside the federal system. And Quebecers seem to be responding to that. The NDP doesn't have a reliable ground game in the province though, so the Bloc will probably win most close contests.

The Green Party is essentially irrelevant.

My prediction: A Conservative majority with the NDP official opposition.

Any thoughts? Local insights from voting Canucks?

In other words Harper is a Republican like in our country the U.S.?
post #6 of 18
All in all a very interesting election campaign and results. The Left is now complaining that Haper's majority is illegitimate because 1) it was formed without a majority of the popular vote and 2) it only happened because the left split their vote between Libs and NDP.

The fail to remember that they themselves dismissed the idea of electoral reform to bring in more proportional representation in the 90s when the conservatives were splitting their vote between the Reform and the PC parties. The consecutive Conservative governments we have see in recent years is a direct result of the conservative parties merging into one Conservative party. If the left wants to do the same, they are free to try, but to now demand electoral reform is sour grapes. As for winning without the popular vote, that is a consequence of how our system was intentionally developed. At the very least, it is not unexpected nor considered unreasonable in a multiparty system. Again, the left has never seemed to mind when their parties have been elected without the popular vote.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #7 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by marvfox View Post

In other words Harper is a Republican like in our country the U.S.?

In a very simplistic way, yes.

"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #8 of 18
LOL call me when they repeal national health care, because you know that's the first thing the Repubs would do in the US.

Canadian "conservatives" are NOT U.S. conservatives, not by a long shot.
post #9 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

LOL call me when they repeal national health care, because you know that's the first thing the Repubs would do in the US.

Canadian "conservatives" are NOT U.S. conservatives, not by a long shot.

The conservatives are especially strong in western Canada, and, having done business there, I have to say that Harper's conservatives are at least as pro-business as the US republicans, perhaps moreso. After all, the strength of Canada's economy has a lot to do with oil collecting in western canada, where there is LOTS of oil.

Second, universal healthcare is not really the issue in the states, Tonton, the issue is government spending on a program that does not appear to be affordable without huge, sweeping changes to the way things are done in America. Notably, this means the broken court system and legal system. Try changing that.

Third, healthcare in Canada is about as polarizing as it is here. Evidently, the anti-universal-healthcare side won a major victory.
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post #10 of 18
Thread Starter 
The Health Care debate is different here. Nobody wants a system that allows a family to be bankrupted by sudden medical bills. The Conservatives would like to allow more private clinics and privatized service delivery to control costs, while the NDP is beholden to unions (and even moreso after yesterday's vote) so anything that takes away a public service job is anathema.

The NDP only approves of private clinics for abortion, because their baby-killing instincts override everything else they stand for. Conservatives haven't fought as hard here for keeping private options because the U.S. border offers private options for us. The U.S. system offers a buffer against waiting lines here.

If Obamacare were to clog the American system with longer service waits, you'd see Canadians more alarmed about the state of their own medical system.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #11 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by frank777 View Post

the health care debate is different here. Nobody wants a system that allows a family to be bankrupted by sudden medical bills.

bingo!
post #12 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777 View Post

The Health Care debate is different here. Nobody wants a system that allows a family to be bankrupted by sudden medical bills.

No body here wants that either.
post #13 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No body here wants that either.

Agreed. No one wants that.

Unfortunately, it's assumed among the Obamacare advocates that anyone who opposes Obamacare doesn't really care about people in that situation. It's also assumed that the only (or even the best) way to guard against such a thing is through government-run healthcare or government-run health insurance.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #14 of 18
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No body here wants that either.

I never meant to imply that conservatives south of the border wanted that.

But that fear is THE driving force behind the public's willingness to implement crazy union-backed, bureaucrat-empowering, innovation-slowing health-care schemes, so it has to be dealt with.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #15 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by FloorJack View Post

No body here wants that either.

Good. Now. We have, in practice, several systems around the world, which prevent just that.

Every single one of those systems involves government mandated and taxpayer funded universal healthcare. EVERY ONE.

Now some of those systems may make some people wait a little longer for care. Some don't, especially those which allow anyone to seek private treatment outside the government system (I fully support this in Canada). But all of those systems prevent bankruptcy from bills and death from inattention. It can be argued that people can die while waiting in line for care, but far more people are helped by this, than are harmed, as people need not avoid having care for fear of financial disaster.

Likewise, there's not a single fully "free market" system in practice anywhere in the world that in any way prevents this from happening.

And people are still too stupid to see (and admit) what is needed.
post #16 of 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

And people are still too stupid to see (and admit) what is needed.

This is an elitist comment of the like I only see from those who wish they were elite but don't have what it takes to get there.
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post #17 of 18
Thread Starter 
Let's also remember Tonton, that government-run health care has an appalling success rate at integrating new technology and processes into the system. We are still going to the doctor like we were in the 70's and getting largely the same results.

There are plenty of people dying because modern tech cannot penetrate bureaucratic fiefdoms and the average wait to see a doctor in an ER in Ontario is around 11 hours. (And we don't even have a problem with illegals.) During recessions, governments here actually cull the numbers of doctors allowed to graduate to save money. Which results in huge physician shortages outside the major cities.

If the U.S., with 10X the population and the current driver in medical scientific advancement, simply adopts the Canadian system the results will be catastrophic for both the country and the world.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #18 of 18
Are you claiming you'd rather have American healthcare?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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