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Apple's new Thunderbolt iMacs get Boot Camp update, dual-monitor out

post #1 of 34
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Apple on Tuesday quickly released an update to address issues with Boot Camp on its new iMacs. Also, the new 27-inch all-in-one desktop supports two monitor outputs via its two Thunderbolt ports, and orders can ship with a Magic Trackpad instead of a Magic Mouse at no extra cost.

Boot Camp 3.2 Update for iMac

Buyers of the newly released Thunderbolt-equipped iMac can download Boot Camp 3.2 Update for iMac direct from Apple. The 638KB update is only applicable to the early 2011 model iMacs.

Apple said the update addresses issues with Japanese and Korean keyboards on the early 2011 iMac. Boot Camp is Apple's software that allows users to install Windows 7 on their Intel-based Mac.

Apple issued a similar fix in April for its new Thunderbolt-equipped MacBook Pro models. That update also addressed shutdown issues, but some users reported it caused problems with adjusting the screen brightness.

27-inch iMac supports up to three displays

Apple's new big-screen 27-inch iMac, released on Tuesday, comes with two Thunderbolt ports for both high-speed input/output and Mini DisplayPort support for additional monitors. The inclusion of two Thunderbolt ports means the iMac can support three displays, when combined with the 27-inch screen on the all-in-one machine.

Engadget put the new feature to the test, hooking two 30-inch Dell displays up to the two Thunderbolt ports on the 27-inch iMac. The end result was a total of 11,878,400 pixels spanning three displays, which can be seen below.



Magic Trackpad now available at no extra cost

When ordering the new iMac from Apple's website, customers can now choose between the Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad. Previously, the Magic Trackpad, which was released last July, had to be purchased separately.

Customers who want both a Magic Mouse and Magic Trackpad can have both for an additional $69. And the wired Apple Mouse is an option as well, available at no extra cost.

The new iMacs released on Tuesday also include the option of a solid state hard drive in both the 21.5-inch and 27-inch models. Custom orders built with the second flash-based drive will have Mac OS X and applications installed by default on the faster solid-state drive. The second, 7200rpm, traditional hard drive can then be used to store media and files.
post #2 of 34
Does the IMac still function as an external display? Just the 27"?
post #3 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Does the IMac still function as an external display? Just the 27"?

Both.

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post #4 of 34
Some TV company - I think it was Samsung - is now promoting a TV with a very thin, almost nonexistent, bezel. The iMac needs to be redesigned along those lines. No bezel, all display. That would make the present iMacs look really dated by comparison.
post #5 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

Some TV company - I think it was Samsung - is now promoting a TV with a very thin, almost nonexistent, bezel. The iMac needs to be redesigned along those lines. No bezel, all display. That would make the present iMacs look really dated by comparison.

Now with 100% more chin!

Because the hardware has to go SOMEWHERE.

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post #6 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Both.

Thanks.
That article says only Thunderbolt-equipped Macs - like the new MBPs - can use the newest iMac as an external display. I'm surprised. Was looking forward to using the new iMac as a display as well.
post #7 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

Both.

"However, to do so, youll need a Thunderbolt-equipped Mac".
post #8 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...and orders can ship with a Magic Trackpad instead of a Magic Mouse at no extra cost.

That's a lot of magic.
post #9 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

Thanks.
That article says only Thunderbolt-equipped Macs - like the new MBPs - can use the newest iMac as an external display. I'm surprised. Was looking forward to using the new iMac as a display as well.

That's a stroke. Less than a year old hardware isn't compatible?

Poor form Apple. But to be expected.
post #10 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

That's a stroke. Less than a year old hardware isn't compatible?

Poor form Apple. But to be expected.

I have to agree. We've got a Macbook Air that would have been handy to use with the iMac as a display. Definitely disappointing but like you say I shouldn't be overly surprised.
post #11 of 34
I just want to use the 21.5" model with an existing 22"LED LCD to create a dual monitor setup (of course with the right TB to HDMI adapter).
post #12 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

I have to agree. We've got a Macbook Air that would have been handy to use with the iMac as a display. Definitely disappointing but like you say I shouldn't be overly surprised.

Is it an artificial limitation or a HW/driver limitation that makes it incompatible? Did they promise this feature?
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post #13 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

The iMac needs to be redesigned along those lines. No bezel, all display.

I think the bezel serves a purpose though. You can adjust the tilt of the screen without getting fingerprints on it.
post #14 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Is it an artificial limitation or a HW/driver limitation that makes it incompatible? Did they promise this feature?

There's an article on Macworld that says it's incompatible but it doesn't say why. Perhaps it is an incompatibility without reasonable workaround.

Did they "promise" it? I don't think they ever promise anything - especially not in terms of feature life-cycles. Or features for unreleased products. Not sure what you're asking.

But I'd say the expectation that the new iMac could accept a mini-DisplayPort output as an input was reasonable. I thought one of the TB selling points was its wide compatibility with legacy connections.
post #15 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...and orders can ship with a Magic Trackpad instead of a Magic Mouse at no extra cost.

That is nice since the mouse is unusable iMO.

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post #16 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is nice since the mouse is unusable iMO.

That Magic Mouse seems to have been quite an experiment and I wonder how many consumers actually prefer it.
It's one thing to put it out there as an innovation, but to tie it to a $1,000+ purchase is crazy.

Since first noticing the mouse in the early years, Apple never seem to have grasped the clear superiority of the two button mouse - left click means the default action, right click shows you the alternative actions. Since the PC world got it right, Apple seem to be locked into determinedly proving them wrong, without success.

Sometimes I think Apple needs a Think Normal department.

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post #17 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

That Magic Mouse seems to have been quite an experiment and I wonder how many consumers actually prefer it.
It's one thing to put it out there as an innovation, but to tie it to a $1,000+ purchase is crazy.

Since first noticing the mouse in the early years, Apple never seem to have grasped the clear superiority of the two button mouse - left click means the default action, right click shows you the alternative actions. Since the PC world got it right, Apple seem to be locked into determinedly proving them wrong, without success.

Sometimes I think Apple needs a Think Normal department.

It took me ages to get used to the magic mouse, but now I have I wouldn't be without it. It is without question the best mouse I have ever used. Right button works fine on it for me.
post #18 of 34
Magic Mouse replaced Logitech Revolution with trepidation. I don't regret the change. I love the ease of scrolling with tough and the two finger gesture is used all the time. It's a win.
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post #19 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Is it an artificial limitation or a HW/driver limitation that makes it incompatible? Did they promise this feature?

TUAW has the skinny:
http://www.tuaw.com/2011/05/03/targe...acs/2#comments
post #20 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

That Magic Mouse seems to have been quite an experiment and I wonder how many consumers actually prefer it.

Since first noticing the mouse in the early years, Apple never seem to have grasped the clear superiority of the two button mouse - left click means the default action, right click shows you the alternative actions. Since the PC world got it right, Apple seem to be locked into determinedly proving them wrong, without success.

Sometimes I think Apple needs a Think Normal department.

I love the Magic Mouse. I didnt' like the Mighty Mouse at all and replaced it with a Logitech Mouse.

And, right click and left click work just fine with it. Switching over from PCs, I was used to right clicking, so I enabled it on the mouse. Problem solved.
post #21 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcompuser View Post

I love the Magic Mouse. I didnt' like the Mighty Mouse at all and replaced it with a Logitech Mouse.

And, right click and left click work just fine with it. Switching over from PCs, I was used to right clicking, so I enabled it on the mouse. Problem solved.

I agree that the mighty mouse was terrible. That little ball was ridiculous. Definitely form over function.

I love the touchpad on my Macbook pro and would go for the trackpad on the iMac - especially if it doesn't cost extra.

When I first got the Macbook pro last year, I tried tap to click for a little while and shut it off. Now it is one of my favorite features, I never use the embedded button any longer.

When they first got rid of the buttons on the touchpad, I thought it was another form over function design choice, but I was WAY wrong on that...
post #22 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

That is nice since the mouse is unusable iMO.

not to mention the trackpad is amazing. i think the magic mouse is Apple's last.
post #23 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

Some TV company - I think it was Samsung - is now promoting a TV with a very thin, almost nonexistent, bezel. The iMac needs to be redesigned along those lines. No bezel, all display. That would make the present iMacs look really dated by comparison.

That'd be nice, but given Apple's obsession with thin, I think they prefer the bezel to making it thicker by putting all the components behind the screen.
post #24 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by ltcompuser View Post

I love the Magic Mouse. I didnt' like the Mighty Mouse at all and replaced it with a Logitech Mouse.

And, right click and left click work just fine with it. Switching over from PCs, I was used to right clicking, so I enabled it on the mouse. Problem solved.

Reverse here, big fan of the mighty but not of the magic. Having that discrete scroll nipple meant no accidental scrolling/zooming and enabled a proxy for clicking both buttons at once, not to mention an additional button in the squeeze.

I'm going to jump on the very-quick-to-abandon-recent-hardware bandwagon with the TB thing. What ever happened to that idea from a while back where you would just insert like a 13" MBP into the side of an iMac-like machine?

It seems to me that if USB3 comes with Ivy Bridge in 2012 then the move to new tech will be complete, but not quite yet - and devices should be coming more so for both that and TB by then.
post #25 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

That's a stroke. Less than a year old hardware isn't compatible?

Poor form Apple. But to be expected.

Put a sock in it! Its a technical limitation obviously. Move on.
post #26 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by FreeRange View Post

Put a sock in it! Its a technical limitation obviously. Move on.

No, not really. His point is completely valid; Apple always does crap like this.

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post #27 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

But I'd say the expectation that the new iMac could accept a mini-DisplayPort output as an input was reasonable. I thought one of the TB selling points was its wide compatibility with legacy connections.

That is why you always should think twice and at least three years ahead before introducing any feature. Because if you take away a feature in a future model (or future software version), people will cry murder.
Apple should have known two years ago when they introduced this feature that Thunderbolt would use the mDP port and that the initial implementation of TB would make it impossible to keep that feature for normal DP video streams. Apple should not have offered this feature for two years because providing utility for two model years is worth far less than disappointing the customers when a new model misses a feature of the preceding model.

(Your choice whether to take the above serious and at face value or whether you appreciate the sarcasm.)
post #28 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

That is why you always should think twice and at least three years ahead before introducing any feature. Because if you take away a feature in a future model (or future software version), people will cry murder.
Apple should have known two years ago when they introduced this feature that Thunderbolt would use the mDP port and that the initial implementation of TB would make it impossible to keep that feature for normal DP video streams. Apple should not have offered this feature for two years because providing utility for two model years is worth far less than disappointing the customers when a new model misses a feature of the preceding model.

(Your choice whether to take the above serious and at face value or whether you appreciate the sarcasm.)


The sarcasm was clear.

I'm not really into hardware - but having introduced the feature of iMac as external display I'd like to think Apple at least investigated making support for mini-DisplayPort a possibility. Even if it would have meant adding a non-TB mini-DisplayPort port to the back of the iMac. I think it's a great feature - but I don't know anything about the underlying infrastructure required to add an input port.

Feel free to attack me with more of your sarcasm for daring to disagree with you. Which I still do.
post #29 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

The sarcasm was clear.

I'm not really into hardware - but having introduced the feature of iMac as external display I'd like to think Apple at least investigated making support for mini-DisplayPort a possibility. Even if it would have meant adding a non-TB mini-DisplayPort port to the back of the iMac. I think it's a great feature - but I don't know anything about the underlying infrastructure required to add an input port.

Feel free to attack me with more of your sarcasm for daring to disagree with you. Which I still do.

I agree it would have been nice if they had kept that feature but you sure know that Apple would never add two physical mDP ports to the back and say one is mDP only and the other is mDP+TB but for all practical purposes the mDP+TB port actually behaves exactly like the mDP port when in comes to video out but the mDP-only port is the one for plugging in a video source. That would be way too messy for Apple.

And coming back to your original post (the one I replied to), this use-the-27"-iMac-as-a-DP-monitor feature was never a feature of DP, mDP, or TB. It was a feature of this particular iMac model, no other all-in-one (and that by definition includes all laptops) from any brand ever had that feature. This feature was a nice hack but not part of the official specification of (m)DP or TB. It is thus not TB is not compatible with any standardised existing feature.

The honest question to be asked was really at the beginning when they added this hack, should we add a hack that might not survive the next change in display port protocol changes? Your answer seems to be to not add it if we are not prepared to keep supporting this hack in all future versions. With technology you often come to a point where supporting old features and implementations really complicates things and the best way to avoid those situations is plan ahead long enough and to accept the occasional clean cut.
post #30 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post

I agree it would have been nice if they had kept that feature but you sure know that Apple would never add two physical mDP ports to the back and say one is mDP only and the other is mDP+TB but for all practical purposes the mDP+TB port actually behaves exactly like the mDP port when in comes to video out but the mDP-only port is the one for plugging in a video source. That would be way too messy for Apple.

And coming back to your original post (the one I replied to), this use-the-27"-iMac-as-a-DP-monitor feature was never a feature of DP, mDP, or TB. It was a feature of this particular iMac model, no other all-in-one (and that by definition includes all laptops) from any brand ever had that feature. This feature was a nice hack but not part of the official specification of (m)DP or TB. It is thus not TB is not compatible with any standardised existing feature.

The honest question to be asked was really at the beginning when they added this hack, should we add a hack that might not survive the next change in display port protocol changes? Your answer seems to be to not add it if we are not prepared to keep supporting this hack in all future versions. With technology you often come to a point where supporting old features and implementations really complicates things and the best way to avoid those situations is plan ahead long enough and to accept the occasional clean cut.

I'm well aware that Apple would never add a port to support this feature, hack, whatever you want to call it. That doesn't make it the only way to look at this. Meaning it doesn't make it "right". It's just the way Apple often does things.

It's my opinion that a company cranking out 27" all-in-ones should strive to make it work as an external display for a previous generation of display outputs. It's an obvious and useful extension of a significant piece of hardware. Even if it requires another port, god-forbid. That's all I'm saying, it's my opinion. You disagree, I can live with that.
post #31 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

I'm well aware that Apple would never add a port to support this feature, hack, whatever you want to call it. That doesn't make it the only way to look at this. Meaning it doesn't make it "right". It's just the way Apple often does things.

It's my opinion that a company cranking out 27" all-in-ones should strive to make it work as an external display for a previous generation of display outputs. It's an obvious and useful extension of a significant piece of hardware. Even if it requires another port, god-forbid. That's all I'm saying, it's my opinion. You disagree, I can live with that.

I don't understand the disappointment of those who want to use a new iMac as a large external display for a recent model MacBook. If you're sitting in front of a 2011 desktop computer why on earth would you want to use an older, slower notebook instead?

It was always my belief that the whole support for video into an iMac was to make use of the display years in the future when the computer part is obsolete. From that perspective supporting anything except Thunderbolt is pointless because 5-7 years from now every Mac and many PCs will have Thunderbolt.
post #32 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bregalad View Post

I don't understand the disappointment of those who want to use a new iMac as a large external display for a recent model MacBook. If you're sitting in front of a 2011 desktop computer why on earth would you want to use an older, slower notebook instead?

I don't understand those who can't imagine a use-case different from their own. Like using a work-issued laptop with special apps that aren't on your giant iMac - and wanting to see it on a larger display.
post #33 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by walshbj View Post

I'm well aware that Apple would never add a port to support this feature, hack, whatever you want to call it. That doesn't make it the only way to look at this. Meaning it doesn't make it "right". It's just the way Apple often does things.

It's my opinion that a company cranking out 27" all-in-ones should strive to make it work as an external display for a previous generation of display outputs. It's an obvious and useful extension of a significant piece of hardware. Even if it requires another port, god-forbid. That's all I'm saying, it's my opinion. You disagree, I can live with that.

Well, by the time you replace your 2011 iMac with a newer computer, this newer computer if it is a Mac will have TB for sure and thus will be able to use your 2011 iMac as an external monitor.

Of course that does not help you with your current laptop but in terms of re-using an iMac as a monitor (instead of selling it for good money), the restricting to TB is probably not an issue.

Do Dell and HP all-in-ones offer a display input option?
post #34 of 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by noirdesir View Post


...Do Dell and HP all-in-ones offer a display input option?

I don't know. I don't pay much attention to non-Macs these days for my own use. I used to be far more interested in Windows than I am now...
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