Fortune's 'Inside Apple' describes a furious Steve Jobs after MobileMe launch - Page 2

Originally Posted by magicj

Wasn't my definition. I didn't write that wiki article.

Originally Posted by magicj

If the stuff they offer in this iCloud product catches on, great. If not, they'll invent new things for "The Cloud" until something catches on or people just get tired of hearing about "The Cloud".

Originally Posted by greg30127

5) Shall we yet again discuss Steve Jobs telling iPhone 4 users to simply "Not hold the phone that way!", when they had reception issues??

Originally Posted by magicj

Yes, but the time for Jobs to ask "What does this product do?" is before it's launched, not after.

Originally Posted by sprockkets

Hate each other? That's pretty funny, in that it is pretty messed up.

Well, after hearing our number 2 in our company tear us a new one, this is really business as usual, I guess?

Originally Posted by magicj

...that's just not the way I'm seeing the term actually being used.

Originally Posted by magicj

Hmm... That seems like a fairly broad definition of "Cloud". A more common definition might be:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloud_computing

Which would include your examples of email and Google services, of which only email is really popular. It wouldn't include Netflix, twitter, or IMs. "Cloud computing" also tends to imply (in usage if not in actual capabilities) a "thin client", the modern day equivalent of a dumb terminal. Usually, the "thin client" is the browser.

Outside of e-mail, I'm not really seeing a "killer app" for "The Cloud". Maybe disk backup. If it's free (at least for consumers).

Originally Posted by magicj

Well, how about I put it this way: There's little point in arguing the technical definition of the term because, at this point, it's a marketing term. "The Cloud" means whatever some company's PR department wants it to mean.

The way I've usually seen the term used is how that wiki article described it. With that definition, I'm not seeing a killer app coming from "The Cloud". I'm seeing people like Oracle using the term to try and sell consulting time to Fortune 500 companies.

Originally Posted by Brendon

For Apple the killer app would be iLife plus Numbers, Pages, and Keynote to be cloud services as well as on computer apps.

Originally Posted by Brendon

The real killer app for Cloud Computing is reducing the need for IT support.

Originally Posted by magicj

Yes, but the time for Jobs to ask "What does this product do?" is before it's launched, not after.

Originally Posted by magicj

Agree with Dropbox. It's great (which reminds me, I have some backups to do ).

Numbers, iLife, Pages, and Keynote I'm not so sure. Partly because Google's cloud apps haven't been huge successes, partly because I don't want to have to connect to the internet to use those kinds of apps, and partly because I don't want to upload my personal data to Google, Apple, or any other company unless I need to, and partly because it's hard to duplicate full desktop app functionality with javascript/html.

Maybe in a corporate setting the centrally managed apps in a cloud would be a better fit. Even there, I'm not so sure.

Originally Posted by Firefly7475

I expect a lot more applications to evolve this way. Along with the ones you mentioned (iLife, Numbers, Pages, and Keynote) I think you should also add iTunes.

For consumers I think Apple have shown you can do this with a curated App Store. You don't have to run everything through a browser.

I think Apple will continue to expand on this with future iOS and OSX versions. Eventually you should be able to log into a computer and have access to everything you own. For example personal pictures, videos, documents and settings along with purchased music, movies, TV and apps.

If you don't have permission to (or don't want to) sync to a computer there should be simplified "web app" versions of the applications you own.

Originally Posted by warheart777

Hey, remember clicking that little agree button. You agreed that any loss of information due to YOU not being RESPONSIBLE to back up what's important to YOU, won't be apple's responsibility. Take some god damn responsibility lolol...jeeezzz adults act as ignorant as kids.

Originally Posted by Firefly7475

IMO Microsoft has shown the best balance with office integration that Apple would do well to emulate.

Files are stored locally and in the cloud. If you have Office installed on the PC you're using you get the full featured experience. If not, you can edit the documents online using Office Web Apps.

Although this is useful, to be honest it isn't really revolutionary. People have been doing the same thing with email for years.

I expect a lot more applications to evolve this way. Along with the ones you mentioned (iLife, Numbers, Pages, and Keynote) I think you should also add iTunes.



For consumers I think Apple have shown you can do this with a curated App Store. You don't have to run everything through a browser.

I think Apple will continue to expand on this with future iOS and OSX versions. Eventually you should be able to log into a computer and have access to everything you own. For example personal pictures, videos, documents and settings along with purchased music, movies, TV and apps.

If you don't have permission to (or don't want to) sync to a computer there should be simplified "web app" versions of the applications you own.

Originally Posted by magicj

Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".

But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".

Originally Posted by sprockkets

Hate each other? That's pretty funny, in that it is pretty messed up. ...

Originally Posted by solipsism

1a) Surely you understand that there is a time frame between the knowing of an issue and its resolution. I have no idea if that time frame was excessive but your comment doesnt support any evidence that it was, but simply states what was obvious fact for a given time frame.

1b) Since this logic board issue also affected some iBook G4 models The faulty logic boards also affected some iBook G4 models it seems to me the design/production issue could have eluded Apple for awhile.

1c) Considering that the iBook G3 goes back 8-10 years the harming of Apples rep would be minor compared to todays Apple with dominate mindshare. Note in 2003 Apple wasnt eve selling a million Macs a quarter.

1d) Ive never even heard of Screen Savers and have been using Macs long before the iBook was an Apple brand.

2a) iPods did sell in excessively higher numbers than iBooks and therefore more of an issue and concern for consumers but arent we still talking about the 1st and 2nd generation iPods from 2004 and earlier. I wonder how many of those affected consumers said Ill never buy another Apple product again and actually havent with so many advances in technology.

2b) The number of products with bad Lithium batteries is astounding. Batteries may not have moving parts but they are active, and can and do fail.

3) I dont recollect any iPod Nano battery recall or replacement settlement. Lawsuits against corps. with deep pockets are filed all the time and usually long before any company knows of an issue or can assess an issue. Note the latest issue with the tracking and the lawsuits filed immediately.

4) See #3.

5a) He never said that to users and they held an event to address the perceived issue. Apple and Jobs did show how you can attenuate the single of other phones with your hands.

5b) The antenna-gate issue probably affected Apples reputation more than all the other niggling points you make but to what extent? They gave away free Bumpers for a couple months but didnt issue a recall and didnt remove the external antenna and has increased their sales each quarter since that announcement. They are the worlds most profitable handset vendor *and by a large margin, at that *so any boost to Android-based vendors, RiM, et al. would pale in comparison.


PS: Its odd that you personally blame Jobs for technical issues that he wasnt directly responsible for except when it comes to MobileMe. Jobs is Apples CEO (still is!) so if the company falters, even if the issue is from a 3rd-party its still on Jobs as the head of the company.

PPS: You left out the iPad 2 light leak issue which isnt as large as "antenna-gate but still more widespread and known than any of the other issues you mention.

PPPS: Did you know that all CE is prone to potential issues because its mass produced consumer electronics that literally has dozens of companies involved in its creation? You can only feasibly sample only so many units. One of the things that people seems to like about Apple is their no hassle returns and replacements. They dont even have a restocking fee anymore. Id say that Apples rep is far exceeding their competition.

Originally Posted by pk22901

Sorry. This one doesn't count because he was right on the money AND the whole antenna gate was bogus.

How do we know? Every survey on iPhone 4 satisfaction results in over 80% being 'very satisfied' and another 12% being 'satisfied'. This satisfaction metric out distances any other phone by a mile.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

I don't know why this is "messed up." It sounds like appropriate chastisement to me.

What are they supposed to do after screwing up thousands of people's data? Have a group hug?

If it was me I would use the word "ashamed" more than "hate" because it's more accurate, but the general feeling is the same.

Originally Posted by Wiggin

I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of merger between MobileMe and Ping to make it easier to share content. Currently you can post photos, but you can't really do anything with them after they are posted (tagging, mapping, etc). And there is no good way to get people to your photo page.

Originally Posted by thompr

Don't you get it?!?!?

It was a leading question. Jobs already knew what it was SUPPOSED to do, and he was waiting for the idiot that would answer the question to give his response.

Thompson

Originally Posted by drobforever

I find it extremely hard to believe that the MobileMe Team can launch the product without SJ's testing and approval. But if SJ already did that, then it's also his responsibility for allowing the product to be approved.

Maybe I'm a traditionalist but I believe that when there's any mistake made in a company, the CEO always bear at least part of the blame, and should have no right to point fingers.

Originally Posted by magicj

Never said it was. I said things like Netflix aren't examples of cloud computing, as the term is commonly used. Netflix is an example of cloud computing if you use the term to mean "network computing" or "Internet computing".

But, again, I'm not seeing a lot of point in arguing the technical definition of a marketing term. Netflix is what it is, regardless of whether or not you and I agree on the meaning of "The Cloud".

Originally Posted by greg30127

Steve Jobs has probably done more to tarnish Apple's reputation than any number of MobileMe programmers did.

Originally Posted by Firefly7475

I'd love to see more effort put into RSS... but it seems like everyone is moving to Twitter.

It's a shame IMO that we have to trade off the better news format in RSS for the added social element in Twitter.

I'd love to see an RSS replacement that sits on top of Twitter. That would be sweet.

As far as managing RSS feeds go Google Reader is by far and away still the best service... although I like using local client front ends (Feeddler is my fav)

Originally Posted by magicj

You just can't admit you were wrong and move on.

But hey, tell the world that Unix's ping utility is a cloud service for all I care. This discussion has passed the point of being useful.

Originally Posted by stelligent

This article is supposed to paint a picture of Apple's impressively unique management architecture. But the MobileMe example unintentionally shows that their system failed miserably. First of all, how could Steve Jobs the almighty leader not be aware that MobileMe was simply not working well? How could the entire management team allow it to be launched? How is it that, two years after this impassioned outburst by Jobs, MobileMe remains essentially a dud? Clearly, neither Jobs nor his gestalt management team uses it, or they would be more aware of its failings.

Jobs likes to say that Apple makes great hardware in order to write great software. Well, MobileMe and Ping are two examples of miserable software failures. In comparison, their hardware products have a superior batting average.

And, before the shots are fired, this is not an Android troll writing, but rather a passionate Apple fan. The point here is that Apple does not seem to have the requisite DNA in writing service based software. This is not an easy thing to change. And it makes you wonder about their upcoming music locker service.

Originally Posted by nvidia2008

RSS is too "antisocial", agreed. Everything's gotta be "social" nowadays. If the whole world doesn't know what you're doing, where you are, who you're friends with or following or not following and who's retweeting or not retweeting or tagging who and what or what not it's no longer worthwhile.

Isn't it interesting that the value of "news" is no longer in the content or reporting but the response of those consuming the news.

Originally Posted by huntson

I don't know how stupid you are but the reason people use the phone and like it so much is because they are willing to LIVE with the antenna gate thing.

Originally Posted by huntson View Post
I don't know how stupid you are but the reason people use the phone and like it so much is because they are willing to LIVE with the antenna gate thing.

Originally Posted by solipsism

There are some services that are far better than the MobileMe counterpart (Dropbox and SugarSync compared to iDisk are prime examples) but I dont know of a single product that competes well with MobileMe as a whole.

Some of Apples other advancements have obsolesced some of MobileMes features. For example, the syncing and backup of so many personal settings and info that go well beyond what MS Active Sync can achieve. Another is Find My iPhone which Apple made a free service thus demising its value in another way.

Others simply have no equal, like Back To My Mac which means I can input my MobileMe credentials and have access to all computers both in Finder and as a remote client without any additional setup. For $65/year I get plenty of use from the service.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

I don't know why this is "messed up." It sounds like appropriate chastisement to me.

What are they supposed to do after screwing up thousands of people's data? Have a group hug?

If it was me I would use the word "ashamed" more than "hate" because it's more accurate, but the general feeling is the same.

Originally Posted by greg30127

Steve Jobs has probably done more to tarnish Apple's reputation than any number of MobileMe programmers did.

1) When a number of iBook G3 units had bad logic boards and he knew about it, the tech reps were instructed to tell people calling in that they had not heard of it. They charged loyal customers $350 for the repairs until a then-popular cable show called "The Screen Savers" broke the story of just how many of the laptops had the problem. Apple then offered refunds to those who paid and offered free repairs from them on ... again... AFTER being called out on it on a TV show.

2) iPod batteries that were defective and ignored by Apple/Jobs until lawsuits were filed that might damage sales.

3) Nano batteries that did the same on a previous generation, again ignored by Jobs, until lawsuits were filed.

4) More than once issue with Powerbook batteries, known and ignored by Jobs until there were damages and lawsuits filed.

5) Shall we yet again discuss Steve Jobs telling iPhone 4 users to simply "Not hold the phone that way!", when they had reception issues??

Sorry - sounds to me like Mr. Jobs is doing a FINE job of hurting Apple's reputation little by little, without any help from the old MobileMe team.

Originally Posted by jragosta

It's funny that so many of the people bashing MobileMe also say "I don't use it". It really amazes me how many people while whine about a product that they don't use - and expect their whining to have any credibility.

I use MobileMe all the time and use it on several different computers and iDevices. What it does for me is:
- Add a bookmark on one computer and it's automatically on all of them.
- Add an item to iCal and it's automatically on all my computers.
- All my essential files are instantly available to all computers when I save them to iDisk. No extra steps of moving them around to drop box or anything.
- My keychain is synced to all computers.
- If I DO have to get something on my home computer that isn't on iDisk, I can go to my home computer's Finder.
- I can continue to do the same thing even when not connected to the Internet. If I make changes to one computer, it will automatically sync as soon as I connect to the Internet.

It comes close to allowing me to work on all my computers the same way without having to spend countless hours manually syncing files and worrying about where to find something. It's all automatic and I don't have to give it a second though. I want my business files? Just go to iDisk without worrying about where I put them.

I'm not aware of any other package that does all of that. Heck, I can't think of even a collection of software that does all of that, although I suppose that you might be able to find 5 or 6 different software packages that would do the same thing, but I haven't seen them.

Is it perfect? Nope. There are a few flaws. For example, when you mirror iDisk to your computer, it seems that it should be backed up with TimeMachine, but that doesn't seem to be the case (or, at least, I can't find it). I guess Apple feels that their own data center backup is sufficient. I don't agree, but it's a minor enough issue that I can live with it to get all the other advantages (once I week, I simply copy the iDisk to somewhere else on my computer so it gets backed up locally).

It's a great product and makes life much easier for many people. Unless you've actually used it enough to explore its capabilities (some of the posts here are so wrong as to be ludicrous), you shouldn't be commenting.

Originally Posted by jragosta

It's funny that so many of the people bashing MobileMe also say "I don't use it". It really amazes me how many people while whine about a product that they don't use - and expect their whining to have any credibility.

I use MobileMe all the time and use it on several different computers and iDevices. What it does for me is:
- Add a bookmark on one computer and it's automatically on all of them.
- Add an item to iCal and it's automatically on all my computers.
- All my essential files are instantly available to all computers when I save them to iDisk. No extra steps of moving them around to drop box or anything.
- My keychain is synced to all computers.
- If I DO have to get something on my home computer that isn't on iDisk, I can go to my home computer's Finder.
- I can continue to do the same thing even when not connected to the Internet. If I make changes to one computer, it will automatically sync as soon as I connect to the Internet.

It comes close to allowing me to work on all my computers the same way without having to spend countless hours manually syncing files and worrying about where to find something. It's all automatic and I don't have to give it a second though. I want my business files? Just go to iDisk without worrying about where I put them.

I'm not aware of any other package that does all of that. Heck, I can't think of even a collection of software that does all of that, although I suppose that you might be able to find 5 or 6 different software packages that would do the same thing, but I haven't seen them.

Is it perfect? Nope. There are a few flaws. For example, when you mirror iDisk to your computer, it seems that it should be backed up with TimeMachine, but that doesn't seem to be the case (or, at least, I can't find it). I guess Apple feels that their own data center backup is sufficient. I don't agree, but it's a minor enough issue that I can live with it to get all the other advantages (once I week, I simply copy the iDisk to somewhere else on my computer so it gets backed up locally).

It's a great product and makes life much easier for many people. Unless you've actually used it enough to explore its capabilities (some of the posts here are so wrong as to be ludicrous), you shouldn't be commenting.