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Previous-gen Apple iPad, iPhone 3GS often outsell new Android devices - Page 3

post #81 of 156
5/9/11 at 12:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Nokia once had 65% profit. Now they don't. The loss of marketshare eventually loses profit. Not that Apple is losing market share yet. the supply chain is an issue, however Nokia could dominate the market as one company, Apple need to get that in order.

Eh...most of Nokia's "smart phones" weren't. Which is why they started losing the high end. With Android pushing smartphone prices down to fancy feature phone prices then Nokia started losing the middle and low end as well.

This is why Android can gain massive share with iOS still growing it's own share. Android isn't competing with Apple so much as beating the crap out of Nokia and RIM.

A nano based iPhone is probably the only reasonable addition to the line up to capture numerical share. A higher end iPhone probably wouldn't help as much in that arena.

I don't think a nano-based iPhone will actually do that much for the profit share and would have to run it's own version of more limited apps.

Apple started with very small share and huge profits so I don't accept that loss of market share eventually loses profit. Releasing crappy products will cost you both.
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post #82 of 156
5/9/11 at 12:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by GalaxyTab View Post

But apple aren't interested in marketshare or the "race to the bottom" (or so I'm told).
Are we now saying the low end of the Market matters?

The flip flopping by cheerleaders is amazing.

Apple isnt interested in increased marketshare at the expense of increase profits. That hasnt changed, nor will it.
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post #83 of 156
5/9/11 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post


Only a complete idiot would go for a $50 3Gs instead of a $200 iPhone 4 when the $150 they save is only a tiny fraction of the contract and you are stuck with the 3Gs for two or three years. Most who do so regret it later.

What the hell are you talking about? Now, I personally fall in to the early adopter group, but there is nothing "idiotic" about someone saving $150 by buying a 3GS versus iPhone 4 if they are happy with the older model. The absolute cost of the contract over time is irrelevant because it is the same whether they go for a 3GS, iPhone 4, Blackberry, etc.

This is akin to the argument I always hear about why buying unsubsidized phones is somehow a better deal because the "real cost" of a subsidized phone (phone+contract) is far higher than the cost of the unsubsidized phone alone. But if you are going to be spending $x /month on a voice+data plan ANYWAYS, then you are actually spending more money! It would be different if the carriers actually discounted the service plans if you choose not to receive a phone subsidy, but they DON'T! (at least not in the USA).
(this is of course ignoring those who choose a pre-paid service plan and don't use much voice/data in a given month).
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post #84 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:05pm
I can't believe how well the iPhone holds it's value used. Just sold my nearly 3 year old 3G 8GB model for $150 on Craigslist in 10 minutes. Had to turn a dozen other people away in the 30 minutes the ad way live! I'd like to see any other smartphone come close to that...
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post #85 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:08pm
If someone is going to compare Android market share to iPhone market share, wouldn't it be far more telling to just compare it to total iOS market share instead?

Do we have those numbers?
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post #86 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

What the hell are you talking about? Now, I personally fall in to the early adopter group, but there is nothing "idiotic" about someone saving $150 by buying a 3GS versus iPhone 4 if they are happy with the older model. The absolute cost of the contract over time is irrelevant because it is the same whether they go for a 3GS, iPhone 4, Blackberry, etc.

I think he was just saying that the $150 is nearing "rounding error" territory when you consider the overall total cost. It's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but it seems pretty close to being true at this point (at least considering the differences between the 4 and the 3Gs).
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post #87 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronJ View Post

I think he was just saying that the $150 is nearing "rounding error" territory when you consider the overall total cost. It's maybe a bit of an exaggeration, but it seems pretty close to being true at this point (at least considering the differences between the 4 and the 3Gs).

$150 over 24 months is $6.25 per month for the iPhone 4 over the 3GS which yields you the faster A4 processor with more CPU features, 2x the RAM, longer battery life, thinner design, faster cellular radios, and an IPS panel with 4x as many pixels. Considering how much I use my iPhone I think a 20¢ per day premium for a much better device is worth it. To be fair, I do buy each new version but 40¢ per day premium over the old kit is still worth it.
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post #88 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

$150 over 24 months is $6.25 per month for the iPhone 4 over the 3GS which yields you the faster A4 processor with more CPU features, 2x the RAM, longer battery life, thinner design, faster cellular radios, and an IPS panel with 4x as many pixels. Considering how much I use my iPhone I think a 20¢ per day premium for a much better device is worth it. To be fair, I do buy each new version but 40¢ per day premium over the old kit is still worth it.

Yeah, when put that way, it really shows. And I say this as an owner of a 3GS. I just decided to skip the 4 at the time, and wait for the 5. I have somewhat mixed feelings about that decision now, but no real regret.

But yeah, $6.25/month isn't much of a premium. Especially for that display. God, that's beautiful.
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post #89 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:42pm
Quote:
English is not my first language, but I'm pretty sure you already figured out I meant there is no single Android handset model that sells more units than the iPhone 4.

Ah, so you are saying that you need to compare handsets, since it is obvious that Android outsells iOS as a smartphone platform. Got it.
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post #90 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:46pm
Quote:
They are off topic in a thread about how a two year old phone is spanking all Android machines

Why does Android have a higher smartphone marketshare if they are being spanked by Apple smartphones? Shouldnt Apple be leading in smartphone marketshare...especially considering that they had a massive head start?

Just sayin.
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post #91 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:47pm
For years when Apple was struggling, detractors used the familiar "Apple Tax" mime as a reason to go PC rather than Mac. This, despite study after study showing that the true cost over time of owning a Mac was less than that of a PC, both at home and in businesses. Part of that equation was that Macs last longer, need less support, and have a higher resale value. Once again we see the value of the longevity of Apple's newest products playing out. This remains true even though Apple's smart phones and tablets are no longer more expensive than most of its competitors. Why anyone would saddle themselves with a Xoom now only to have to give it up for scrap in two years is beyond me.
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post #92 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

Why does Android have a higher smartphone marketshare if they are being spanked by Apple smartphones? Shouldnt Apple be leading in smartphone marketshare...especially considering that they had a massive head start?

Just sayin.

1) Marketshare isn’t installed base so a head start means little, but it you really want to know who first when public check out Google’s history of Android. First doesn’t usually mean the most successful.

2) Android doesn’t have a higher smartphone marketshare because Android isn’t a smartphone. Android is a smartphone OS and its marketshare should exceed Apple’s iPhone smartphone marketshare based solely on the different market focuses between Google free OS and Apple’s iPhone device.
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post #93 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

Why does Android have a higher smartphone marketshare if they are being spanked by Apple smartphones? Shouldnt Apple be leading in smartphone marketshare...especially considering that they had a massive head start?

Just sayin.

Because every handset maker on the planet has 15 models of Android OS phones. The fact that Apple is running neck and neck with Google who is giving away their work for free is amazing to me.

As far as a head start? There is a disadvantage to that because it saved Google having to figure out what a modern smartphone and OS should look like. They just reverse engineered iPhone and gave it away.
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post #94 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:56pm
Quote:
Android doesnt have a higher smartphone marketshare because Android isnt a smartphone. Android is a smartphone OS

In Apple's case the phone and OS are one in the same. People are not buying the iPhone because of the hardware, but because of the OS. It is common sense to most people that when you talk about Android vs iPhone you are talking about a comparison of platforms, not phones.

Using your logic it is impossible to say that the iPhone is outselling Android, because Android isnt a phone...right?
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post #95 of 156
5/9/11 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

As far as a head start? There is a disadvantage to that because it saved Google having to figure out what a modern smartphone and OS should look like. They just reverse engineered iPhone and gave it away.

Its funny how we dont here about tablet makers 3 decade head start when it comes to the iPads success. Its almost like they were doing it wrong much like Google was doing it wrong with Android before the iPhone showed up in 2007.
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post #96 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

Ah, so you are saying that you need to compare handsets, since it is obvious that Android outsells iOS as a smartphone platform. Got it.

No, Android doesn't "outsell" iOS because Android is given away.
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post #97 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by shokune View Post

Android manufacturers doesn't rely on single products. they release couple of products and expects return from each.

where apple release 1 phone a year, and expect return from 2 phones (current one, and the immediate previous one)....but if you combine total sales then the reality is bitter for apple

apple is not gaining market shares.... but android is gaining market share in both low end and high end handset market.....

The reality for Apple is NOT bitter. Apple, as a phone manufacturer, sold 18 million phones last quarter.

How many did Samsung sell? They have tons of different phones... they must have outsold Apple, right? Nope... 10 million.

Sure... there are more phones running Android... if you combine them all. But Samsung doesn't combine their numbers with HTC's numbers when they talk about sales.

So you shouldn't lump every Android phone together and think that Apple is in trouble.

Remember... manufacturers sell phones... and right now Apple is beating them all.
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post #98 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:06pm
Quote:
No, Android doesn't "outsell" iOS

Phones with the Android OS do not outsell iOS phones? Are you sure about that?
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post #99 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

In Apple's case the phone and OS are one in the same. People are not buying the iPhone because of the hardware, but because of the OS. It is common sense to most people that when you talk about Android vs iPhone you are talking about a comparison of platforms, not phones.

Using your logic it is impossible to say that the iPhone is outselling Android, because Android isnt a phone...right?

I won't speak for anyone else, but I would answer that "Yes, it is incorrect to say that iPhone (a phone) is outselling Android (a platform)."

As to your first point, I have to disagree. If iOS and the iPhone were one and the same, then why do I have the very same iOS on my iPad (not a phone) and my friend has the very same iOS on his iPod Touch (also not a phone)?

Also, people have bought the iPhone because they liked the way it looked (hardware). The Retina Display on the iPhone4 was one of the biggest selling points (hardware). Etc.
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post #100 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

In Apple's case the phone and OS are one in the same. People are not buying the iPhone because of the hardware, but because of the OS. It is common sense to most people that when you talk about Android vs iPhone you are talking about a comparison of platforms, not phones.

Using your logic it is impossible to say that the iPhone is outselling Android, because Android isnt a phone...right?

1) Learn how to use the quote function on this site.

2) The iPhone and iOS are not one in[sic] the same. They are sold as a unit, but the HW is not the OS is not the HW. If you cant understand how iOS 4.0 doesnt make an iPhone 3GS and iPhone 4 then you are just trolling because I cant believe anyone could be that stupid.

3) People do buy the iPhone for the HW. The Retina Display is absolutely brilliant. If they werent buying it for the HW then there would never have been any lawsuits or issue with the HW. Can you think of something last year that involved the HW design of the iPhone 4 that was a popular media issue? I can.

4) No, the average doesnt compare OS platforms to each other, they will compare the HW. This is the most tangible aspect of the device and what Nokia was relying on far too often which has put them into their current position. This does not mean Apple doesnt work to make their code as effective as possible for the HW, but Apple is a HW company and people compare HW, not lines of code.
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post #101 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

In Apple's case the phone and OS are one in the same. People are not buying the iPhone because of the hardware, but because of the OS. It is common sense to most people that when you talk about Android vs iPhone you are talking about a comparison of platforms, not phones.

Using your logic it is impossible to say that the iPhone is outselling Android, because Android isnt a phone...right?

Your opening statement is correct, but your conclusion based on that is incorrect. The old software versus hardware argument goes way back to Windows versus Mac. Is Apple a hardware company or a software company? It's both. Microsoft was a software company that basically created the bifurcation model of software versus hardware that defines the PC experience. People buy Apple products because the software and hardware are designed as one. Fewer problems, fewer conflicts, greater reliability, more ease of use.
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post #102 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

Phones with the Android OS do not outsell iOS phones? Are you sure about that?

That's not what I said. I said that the Android OS qua OS is given away, not sold. The platforms that can run it are sold.
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post #103 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:21pm
Quote:
Me: Phones with the Android OS do not outsell iOS phones? Are you sure about that?

That's not what I said.

Oh good, I am glad we agree that Android OS phones are outselling iOS phones. I must have misunderstood you.


Quote:
Is Apple a hardware company or a software company? It's both. Microsoft was a software company that basically created the bifurcation model of software versus hardware that defines the PC experience.

I agree. But when people compare Mac to PC they are not comparing hardware. They are not comparing "Dell" to Apple. They are comparing the Platforms in general, which means mostly the OS.


Quote:
People buy Apple products because the software and hardware are designed as one

.

Not always. Apple can and does use the same hardware as it's competitors. Withness their abandonment of the PowerPC architecture in favor of Intel.

The hardware changes, but the OS is the same.
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post #104 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

Not always. Apple can and does use the same hardware as it's competitors. Withness their abandonment of the PowerPC architecture in favor of Intel.

The hardware changes, but the OS is the same.

WTF! A CPU does not make a device.

You really think Macs are exactly the same as any HP or Dell PC because they use Intel CPUs? I hate to break it to you but Apple licenses ARM just like every other vendor.

They also use RAM which seems to be common among computing devices. How fucking crazy is that. I guess the iPhone is just like all other smartphones.
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post #105 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:26pm
Quote:
1) Learn how to use the quote function on this site.

I am using the quote function. It is the icon in the editor. It is how I get that box around your text.


Quote:
People do buy the iPhone for the HW. The Retina Display is absolutely brilliant.

I disagree. I know lots of iPhone users, and not one of them bought their iPhone because of the display.


Quote:
No, the average doesn’t compare OS platforms to each other, they will compare the HW.

That has not been my experience. Most of the people I know who have switched away from Apple did so because of the limitations of the OS or Apple policy. I dont know anyone who has switched from Apple because they thought the hardware was lacking.
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post #106 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:28pm
Quote:
You really think Macs are exactly the same as any HP or Dell PC because they use Intel CPUs?

It certainly makes them similar. Do you consider the CPU to be an important part of computer hardware?
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post #107 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

I am using the quote function. It is the icon in the editor. It is how I get that box around your text.

Youre coping and pasting from the forum instead of using the reply button. You see how everyone elses posts lists the person who made the quote and has a link back to the original quote so readers can follow the thread?
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post #108 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:30pm
Quote:
Youre coping and pasting from the forum instead of using the reply button

Why is the quote button in the editor if we are not supposed to use it?
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post #109 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

It certainly makes them similar. Do you consider the CPU to be an important part of computer hardware?

Important, but not so important that it in and of itself makes it the the same as any other device with a CPU. Thats just fucking stupid!

Do you consider DNA to be an important part of existance? Do you consider a fern to be the same as human being simply because they both contain DNA?
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post #110 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDenver View Post

Why is the quote button in the editor if we are not supposed to use it?

1) There is more things to quote in the world than are contained in this forum.

2) You can you seriously not see how your quotes differ from everyone elses or how they dislodge the thread from its readability because you choose not to name who you are quoting?

3) Why Im replying to a fucking troll?
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post #111 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:36pm
The Windows-Mac pissing contest was easy to measure. This smartphone space has so many metrics that one day iOS is in the lead and the next day it's a mere percentage of Android dominance.

I'd say this much - there seem to more iPhones in the wild than Android phones. And, without question, iPads seem to be the only tablet sin the wild
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post #112 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:39pm
Quote:
Why Im replying to a fucking troll?

You tell me. You are the one replying.

I'll make you a deal though...I will learn to use the quote function better if you can learn to express your thoughts without resorting to profanity and petty insults. How about that?
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post #113 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:45pm
Quote:
I'd say this much - there seem to more iPhones in the wild than Android phones.

That has not been my experience. Most people I know with smartphones have an Android phone.

Nielsen seems to agree:

Quote:
Which brings us to the installed base of smartphone consumers: As of March 2011, 37 percent of mobile consumers who owned a smartphone had a device with an Android OS. Apples iOS, claimed by 27 percent of consumers, is now outpacing Blackberry, which has 22 percent of the market.

http://blog.nielsen.com/nielsenwire/...e-most-wanted/

Thats installed base, not new buyers. So even from an Installed Base standpoint, there are more Android OS phones than iOS phones. If those figures are accurate, Android has a significant lead.
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post #114 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

I'd say this much - there seem to more iPhones in the wild than Android phones. And, without question, iPads seem to be the only tablet sin the wild

Ive seen a Motorola Xoom in the wild. Surprised I havent seen more or them and other non-iPad tablets. The iPad looks to be creating a natural monopoly much like it did with the iPod but Id still expect to see more people making bad purchase decisions with incomplete product offerings for what they think is a good deal.

Ive seen some really cheap pre-Honeycomb Android-based tablets in stores but never in the wild. Maybe people wised up after the iPod or maybe the prevalence of the Apple Store and/or Apples dominant mindshare has made more people realize its not worth bothering with an inferior device that you cant test before buying.
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post #115 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

And, without question, iPads seem to be the only tablet sin the wild

I did get a few hours with a NookColor yesterday afternoon and I was very pleasantly surprised at how well it worked as an e-reader AND as a tablet for someone without the need for tens-of-thousands of apps, or things like photo-editing or word processing. My daughter bought one for her mother-in-law. . . and one for her mother, a.k.a. my wife.

The latest application update added more than I realized. For someone that only wants/needs to do some web-browsing, email and book or magazine reading, it's a very good alternative to the iPad IMO and at a very fair price for what it does.

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post #116 of 156
5/9/11 at 2:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

I did get a few hours with a NookColor yesterday afternoon and I was very pleasantly surprised at how well it worked as an e-reader AND as a tablet for someone without the need for tens-of-thousands of apps, or things like photo-editing or word processing. My daughter bought one for her mother-in-law. . . and one for her mother, a.k.a. my wife.

The latest application update added more than I realized. For someone that only wants/needs to do some web-browsing, email and book or magazine reading, it's a very good alternative to the iPad IMO and at a very fair price for what it does.

The Nook Color makes for a good eReader but Id say that once you use an iPad its viability as an internet tablet feels exceedingly compromised and unusable. Its the HW that is lacking, like many Android-based devices only much worse, not the actual browser.

PS: Its funny how a year ago the iPad wasnt a real tablet and had no viable utility but now even eReaders that are given the WebKit browsers are considered bona fide tablets by Android fans.
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post #117 of 156
5/9/11 at 3:04pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The Nook Color makes for a good eReader but Id say that once you use an iPad its viability as an internet tablet feels exceedingly compromised and unusable. Its the HW that is lacking, like many Android-based devices only much worse, not the actual browser.

PS: Its funny how a year ago the iPad wasnt a real tablet and had no viable utility but now even eReaders that are given the WebKit browsers are considered bona fide tablets by Android fans.

Both Ford Fiestas and BMW 328i's will get you from work to home. You do look classier in the BMW tho, and the audio is better.

So yes, once the Nook added a web browser and some basic apps it does serve some of the needs of those that might have been looking for an iPad or Zoom-type tablet.

Whether the Nook is really a tablet might be debatable. But if it works for the intended use I suppose it really doesn't matter to the end-user does it?

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post #118 of 156
5/9/11 at 3:07pm
Quote:
Ive seen a Motorola Xoom in the wild.

I have to admit, I have not. Although I only know one guy with an iPad as well. I know lots of people with smartphones, and almost none that have tablets.
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post #119 of 156
5/9/11 at 3:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Both Ford Fiestas and BMW 328i's will get you from work to home

The Nook cant even do a residential road speed, much less highway speeds. its a kickstart moped that doesnt require a license to drive and and is forced to stay in the bike line when traveling on the road with the big boys. The Motorola Xoom is more akin to the Ford, poorly designed and cheaply constructed but it cans still do highway speeds even though its eating the dust of millions of iPad 2s.
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post #120 of 156
5/9/11 at 3:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

... 2) You can you seriously not see how your quotes differ from everyone else’s or how they dislodge the thread from it’s readability because you choose not to name who you are quoting? ...

JeffDenver knows exactly what he's doing. He's using the generic reply + quote functions rather than the individual message reply function, even though it's more effort and more awkward to do so, because he's just another dishonest fandroid troll who wants to quote people out of context but make it difficult for people to see just how disingenuous he's being.
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