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Google launches cloud music, previews next Android, promises OS updates for 18 mos. - Page 2

post #41 of 124
The Android tablets will overtake Apple is unproven, to say the least. Unlike the iPhone Apple came into that Market aggressively. Very few manufacturers can compete with their buying power.

On phones they are still selling one high end model and last years high end model. This report is showing that a 2 yr old iPhone model can beat the best of Androids competition. When Apple are on all carriers and have lower priced models, which they will, they will regain Market share from Android.

That's the only way if reading this report.
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post #42 of 124
Man google is really awesome. I love google and I love apple, can't get enough of both companies. Still think iOS/iTunes is better, but Android is growing on me.
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post #43 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Solipsism, 18 months ago some posters here said "Android smartphones will never overtake iPhone sales". A few months later it did. But some posters here said that didn't really matter anyway. "Android will never have as many apps to choose from". Looks like that will happen sometime this year too. But now that doesn't really matter either. It's more about quality than quantity.

So then late last year it became "Android will never sell as well as the combined total of all iOS devices each month". Five months later it looks like they actually may be outselling all iOS devices combined.

Who are these posters? Name names and post posts.
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post #44 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich View Post

Meh. Android developers already know they can't make money with Android apps, so they are slow to commit or leaving for iOS. Hardware manufacturers will simply devolve to lowest cost competitors, as Android phones are now a commodity business, just like PCs.

Yeah, and the laughable thing is, Google is making no money on this (even indirectly, at least not so far).

You've got wonder about these race-to-the-bottom handset makers. How can they be so dependent on someone else for their OS, and essentially hand their future over to a company that makes no money on this? What exactly do they compete on, against each other? Features? Buttons? Colors? Size? What if Google decides to yank or detour or slow down Android, because they've got other things to do?
post #45 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

The Android tablets will overtake Apple is unproven, to say the least. Unlike the iPhone Apple came into that Market aggressively. Very few manufacturers can compete with their buying power.

On phones they are still selling one high end model and last years high end model. This report is showing that a 2 yr old iPhone model can beat the best of Androids competition. When Apple are on all carriers and have lower priced models, which they will, they will regain Market share from Android.

That's the only way if reading this report.

While Apple will move into new areas but so will Android. We'll see likely see them as tomorow's "feature phone" except with access to Android Market for certain apps. There is HW coming to market this year that could put Android 2.3 onto a phone that can be sold, contract free, for under $100. That market is exceedingly large from a unit sales standpoint, but not likely not a money maker for vendors or devs.
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post #46 of 124
Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Solipsism, 18 months ago some posters here said "Android smartphones will never overtake iPhone sales". A few months later it did. But some posters here said that didn't really matter anyway. "Android will never have as many apps to choose from". Looks like that will happen sometime this year too. But now that doesn't really matter either. It's more about quality than quantity.

So then late last year it became "Android will never sell as well as the combined total of all iOS devices each month". Five months later it looks like they actually may be outselling all iOS devices combined.


Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Who are these posters? Name names and post posts.

Gatorguy forgot to mention my post:

"Who gives a shit."
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post #47 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Yeah, and the laughable thing is, Google is making no money on this (even indirectly, at least not so far).

You've got wonder about these race-to-the-bottom handset makers. How can they be so dependent on someone else for their OS, and essentially hand their future over to a company that makes no money on this? What exactly do they compete on, against each other? Features? Buttons? Colors? Size? What if Google decides to yank or detour or slow down Android, because they've got other things to do?

Google does make money off Android: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/05/g...ould-eventual/
post #48 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

I just hope all of this lights a fire under Apple and that iOS 5 will be revolutionary!

...because, as we all know, apple hasn't been revolutionary (or innovative) in quite some time...
post #49 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Who are these posters? Name names and post posts.

Right. . .
Never seen here huh?

Is this busy work, or are you trying to say it's not been said?

If the latter, I'll play along. If the former, I really do have other things a bit more important than playing a game.
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post #50 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

Meanwhile, Apple is still trying to figure out how to do notifications on iOS.

I know there is debate over which notification system is better. Truth be told, I've used both, and while Apple's version can be annoying, that's sort of the point behind a notification... to let you know something is happening. I found that I totally miss notifications on Android since it requires action on my behalf.
post #51 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

What exactly do they compete on, against each other? Features? Buttons? Colors? Size?

Hardware specs. Who can cram the most superfluously powerful smartphone components into an iPhone-esque design? The one exception is battery size/life.
post #52 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

Originally Posted by Gatorguy
Solipsism, 18 months ago some posters here said "Android smartphones will never overtake iPhone sales". A few months later it did. But some posters here said that didn't really matter anyway. "Android will never have as many apps to choose from". Looks like that will happen sometime this year too. But now that doesn't really matter either. It's more about quality than quantity.

So then late last year it became "Android will never sell as well as the combined total of all iOS devices each month". Five months later it looks like they actually may be outselling all iOS devices combined.




Gatorguy forgot to mention my post:

"Who gives a shit."


As it should be!
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post #53 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

Google does make money off Android: http://www.engadget.com/2010/10/05/g...ould-eventual/

Did you read your own link?! Here, let me quote from the engadget.com blurb:

"Of course, it doesn't make all that money from Android directly, but Schmidt says that Android-based phones are already generating enough advertising revenue to cover the cost of development. What's more, while he doesn't provide any current specific numbers, Schmidt did say that he expects there to someday be one billion Android phones in the world, and that if each one generated just $10 per user per year it would be a $10 billion business....."

Cover the 'cost of development'? Plus some fairy tale hopes (if we can sell a billion, and if we can get get $10 per user per year) that pass for a forecast? 'Nuff said.

(Come back and post some numbers if/when Google actually provides you with some audited segment data that actually says 'we are making some money that is more than chump change'. Until then, it's cheap talk.)
post #54 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Right. . .
Never seen here huh?

Is this busy work, or are you trying to say it's not been said?

If the latter, I'll play along. If the former, I really do have other things a bit more important than playing a game.

I think one person said that Android will not catch up to iOS... and that person was a numbskull. When you've got 15 companies producing 5 phones each you're bound to end up with more phones than one company producing one phone.

As mentioned... who gives a shit.

What's your point?
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post #55 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by J.R. View Post

Hardware specs. Who can cram the most superfluously powerful smartphone components into an iPhone-esque design? The one exception is battery size/life.

Yeah, that strategy worked out well for PC makers..... (which was sort of the point in the original I was agreeing with).
post #56 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by island hermit View Post

I think one person said that Android will not catch up to iOS... and that person was a numbskull. When you've got 15 companies producing 5 phones each you're bound to end up with more phones than one company producing one phone.

As mentioned... who gives a shit.

What's your point?

Exactly that!!
Why does anyone give a shit about figures and percentages comparing Android and Apple.

You're the first one to get it. Congrats!
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post #57 of 124
Google wishes desperatedly they were Apple...
As Steve Jobs would say, "we didn't get into the search business..."

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #58 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by mac_dog View Post

...because, as we all know, apple hasn't been revolutionary (or innovative) in quite some time...

Sure they are, when it comes to creating a market. But their competitors blatantly rip them off and use Apple's ideas as a springboard to leapfrog ahead of Apple and innovate further while Apple slowly crawls forward with their ideas. Cut and paste, multi-tasking, notifications...Apple needs to stay ahead of the curve with these types of things or they're going to be left behind.

Google says their next big update will feature a new user interface, so I'm guessing they plan to do away with the "App tiles" look they copied from Apple. This will be the first time they've gone in their own direction in this area with Android phones. If it turns out like the last time they went in their own direction with Android (the abortion that is Gingerbread), they're probably going to piss a lot of people off because it's just too different and too difficult for casual users to get into. This would give Apple a perfect chance to swoop in with a new, improved, innovative, and most of all user-friendly iOS 5 to woo the public again.

Then Google can just copy the new look of iOS and we start back from the beginning...
post #59 of 124
@ jkichline: I love Apple too, but part of really loving something is knowing when and accepting that they make mistakes. Notifications in iOS is a mistake. I'm sorry, but an icon on the top of the screen and a little chime playing works much better, IMO, than a large chunky block interrupting me by blocking the entire screen.

Apple seems to agree since rumor has it they are working hard to "fix" the notifications system in iOS.
post #60 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

Did you read your own link?! Here, let me quote from the engadget.com blurb:

"Of course, it doesn't make all that money from Android directly, but Schmidt says that Android-based phones are already generating enough advertising revenue to cover the cost of development. What's more, while he doesn't provide any current specific numbers, Schmidt did say that he expects there to someday be one billion Android phones in the world, and that if each one generated just $10 per user per year it would be a $10 billion business....."

Cover the 'cost of development'? Plus some fairy tale hopes (if we can sell a billion, and if we can get get $10 per user per year) that pass for a forecast? 'Nuff said.

(Come back and post some numbers if/when Google actually provides you with some audited segment data that actually says 'we are making some money that is more than chump change'. Until then, it's cheap talk.)

I agree with you that Android itself doesn't generate much money for Google, but the point of it is to further drive Google's main revenue stream (Ads). I don't think they'll ever show a clear segmented number for Android alone. It's pretty much the same for all of Google's services, everything is about driving Ad revenue.

The worst case situation for the handset manufacturers is for some group to take over development of Android or switch to yet another OS. What about all of their investment into Android then? I'm sure they're used to spending money on products that don't sell (Xoom) so whatever they'll have to do to stay in the game in the future will just be regular business. We'll see how much these handset makers really invest into Android by how well they would really keep up with updates.
post #61 of 124
The announcements are feel underwhelming to me, save one: a new state of the art interface.

What really got me is the fact that Google has never demonstrated UI which is close to what I perceive as state of the Art. I mean cmon, even supposedly lagging Microsoft has one - Metro, while tech trendmaker Google is still stuck with simplicity which in reality produces evenly spaced flat rectangles in barely enough quantities to map all the available system functions to them.

Maybe they will find a good designer at last. And hopefully Apple is busy preparing UI update as the answer.
post #62 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Exactly that!!
Why does anyone give a shit about figures and percentages comparing Android and Apple.

You're the first one to get it. Congrats!

Actually... there are quite a few people on here that have said that it's not about market percentage.
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post #63 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Exactly that!!
Why does anyone give a shit about figures and percentages comparing Android and Apple.

You're the first one to get it. Congrats!

Of course it matters. It matters for software devs and peripheral manufacturers. I want to see Apple at 40% which they can do.
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post #64 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

I agree with you that Android itself doesn't generate much money for Google, but the point of it is to further drive Google's main revenue stream (Ads). I don't think they'll ever show a clear segmented number for Android alone. It's pretty much the same for all of Google's services, everything is about driving Ad revenue.

The worst case situation for the handset manufacturers is for some group to take over development of Android or switch to yet another OS. What about all of their investment into Android then? I'm sure they're used to spending money on products that don't sell (Xoom) so whatever they'll have to do to stay in the game in the future will just be regular business. We'll see how much these handset makers really invest into Android by how well they would really keep up with updates.

I mean its fine if every manufacture makes their own Android OS based on the open-source system, but many developers I think won't accept it that they have to *bomb* their consumers with advertisements. Advertisements are fine as long as you are not overstepping the line.

Still some developers are upset that their app can't find on every device. Otherwise when you do an app for the iPhone, you can get it for every iPhone Generation and iPod Touch. iPad provides a really fun base for app developers to extend what they were limited on the iPhone, the resolution but thats a dif topic.

Google is turning in my opinion into a monopoly and thats wrong. Google tries to do everything today. Probably starting tomorrow we will get recipes from Google on how to cook.


PS: This is my first time writing a reply, but I have been watching AI quite a long time.
post #65 of 124
Not a bad first post at all.

Welcome to AI!
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post #66 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

It said the next user interface would be "state of the art.

Translation: "The current one sucks".
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post #67 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

I agree with you that Android itself doesn't generate much money for Google, but the point of it is to further drive Google's main revenue stream (Ads). I don't think they'll ever show a clear segmented number for Android alone. It's pretty much the same for all of Google's services, everything is about driving Ad revenue.

I agree that it may, one day, make money for Google, and that would be from ads.

I am simply saying that day is not here yet.
post #68 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Of course it matters. It matters for software devs and peripheral manufacturers. I want to see Apple at 40% which they can do.

So far, it does not seem to have mattered much for Apple, does it?
post #69 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by guch20 View Post

Sure they are, when it comes to creating a market. But their competitors blatantly rip them off and use Apple's ideas as a springboard to leapfrog ahead of Apple and innovate further while Apple slowly crawls forward with their ideas. Cut and paste, multi-tasking, notifications...Apple needs to stay ahead of the curve with these types of things or they're going to be left behind.

Google says their next big update will feature a new user interface, so I'm guessing they plan to do away with the "App tiles" look they copied from Apple. This will be the first time they've gone in their own direction in this area with Android phones. If it turns out like the last time they went in their own direction with Android (the abortion that is Gingerbread), they're probably going to piss a lot of people off because it's just too different and too difficult for casual users to get into. This would give Apple a perfect chance to swoop in with a new, improved, innovative, and most of all user-friendly iOS 5 to woo the public again.

Then Google can just copy the new look of iOS and we start back from the beginning...

Yeah!

This says it all!
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post #70 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by al_bundy View Post

if you're really so set on swiping the top of the screen just get an android phone. the notifications on iOS are just fine compared to android. they could use some work, but android is not better at notifications.

Yes, android and pretty much all other smartphones handle notifications better than the iphone, sorry.
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post #71 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

Of course it matters. It matters for software devs and peripheral manufacturers. I want to see Apple at 40% which they can do.

If Apple is constantly selling more iPhones and iPads even if their market share is dipping then why would developers suddenly begin to lose money supporting iOS.

That's ridiculous.

There's another item being sold today that has less than 10% share of its market and it makes tons of money for developers... it's called OSX and Apple Macintosh computers... you may have heard of them.
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post #72 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by shompa View Post

Wonder how much space you get on Googles cloud service. I have 4+ terra in my itunes. I guess I wont be able to upload it all to their service.

I have about 93 GB, which according to iTunes is about 40 days worth of music. I would say it is on average at about 256kbps. So, assuming you had your music in a similar format, that would be about 47 years worth of music (94 if you only listen to music 12 hours out of the day, every day), if you never listened to the same song twice. Even in a lossless format, it would be over 5 years (10 if you listen 12 hours a day, 365 days a year) worth of music.

Keeping a ridiculous amount more music than you could possibly ever listen to in a lifetime on your hard drive, is asinine. I'm not sure why it would occur to anyone that they need to store this much music (most of which you've never heard before) in the cloud.
post #73 of 124
OS X does not have the range of software that windows has, and a lot of it is late. That has changed recently and it changed as the platform got bigger. I love Apple products but fuck this ghetto mentality.
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post #74 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram View Post

So far, it does not seem to have mattered much for Apple, does it?

Um, yeah but that's because Apple have increased their Market share in tablets and smartphones from 0%.

They need to keep growing.
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post #75 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockstheparty View Post

I have about 93 GB, which according to iTunes is about 40 days worth of music. I would say it is on average at about 256kbps. So, assuming you had your music in a similar format, that would be about 47 years worth of music (94 if you only listen to music 12 hours out of the day, every day), if you never listened to the same song twice. Even in a lossless format, it would be over 5 years (10 if you listen 12 hours a day, 365 days a year) worth of music.

Keeping a ridiculous amount more music than you could possibly ever listen to in a lifetime on your hard drive, is asinine. I'm not sure why it would occur to anyone that they need to store this much music (most of which you've never heard before) in the cloud.

How asinine is it to assume he doesn't have a lot of Video?
post #76 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by joelsalt View Post

How asinine is it to assume he doesn't have a lot of Video?

rockstheparty just got SERVED.
post #77 of 124
Yet chrome still exists. If google is claiming one OS to rule them all, why isn't chrome joining android? It's not even like chrome is trying to be a full fledged OS like OS X, and even OS X shares it's viable APIs between the two systems.

Google is getting to diversified for their own good, even when they concentrate their products down, they still are re-inventing the wheel and competing against themselves.
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post #78 of 124
Just because Apple has been successful in things that they do doesn't mean that companies like Google and Amazon can be successful in venturing into the same lines of business. First it was Google's Nexus One. Flop. Second it was Honeycomb on XOOM. Flop. Amazon's Cloud Services has been very quiet since launch. People just don't care about it period.

The only reason why Google seems to be successful with Android is because handset manufacturers have some sort of identity crises with their native OS. And even then, no handset vendor running Android can compete with iPhone when it comes to consumer patronage. Because they fell into a trap which made it harder for them to differentiate their products from other competing Android devices.

One thing that these companies should understand: there is this so-called "Apple Only Market" that is really hard to break up. No matter how hard the other companies try, at best, they will only end up playing second fiddle to Apple,
post #79 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by tru_canuk View Post

According to other blog sites reporting on this event, Google will provide updates up to 18 months after the release of the device BUT only if the device's hardware is capable of supporting it.

Not to take anything away from Google but I still much prefer the way Apple supports it iDevices vs Google. At least I know my device is good for at least 2 years.

Indeed.

And Apple does it by version number not by date. 18 months means nothing if they don't update the OS for 19 months. With iOS, you get a promise that you will get all the point updates for the OS that's on it when you buy it, plus the next full number OS, plus the point updates for that next OS.

The caveat of "if your device is capable of supporting it" also makes even the 18 month promise essentially useless. Logically, Googles statements on this reduce to the simple statement:

"If we release updates you will get them if your device is capable of handling them."

This is the classic 'empty promise.'
post #80 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by shadow415 View Post

Ice Cream Sandwich (ICS) seems like a back-cronymed swipe at IOS.

It's a ridiculous name. It fails even on the "whimsy" front and that icon is one of the worst POS I've ever seen.

It's like they aren't even trying
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