Google sets sights on enterprise, education with subscription 'Chromebooks' - Page 2

All out of the goodness of their little black hearts...

The idea is fine although limited in capability because it all relies on a limited bandwidth limited data capacity pipe. The question is, are you willing to sell your soul to google (whether you consciously acknowledge it or not...)? Again, there is no such thing as a free lunch. Where is google going to extract it's pound of flesh? How does google make this attractive to google's shareholders?

The same could be said about non-chrome netbooks. Ask Acer how that has worked out.

Every major corporation Ive worked for leased most of their PCs. Its not necessarily cheaper, but they get to outsource the repair and replacement and get to alter their unit numbers without incurring high up front cost which makes a big difference to managers trying to balance a budget for the quarter or the year.

Not 'many'... its 'most' Google projects fizzle.
The eternal beta company.

Apple could make a low cost iPad (iPad 1?) for developing countries and schools that web browses and does mail that doesn't need a keyboard and is therefor easier to use with any language. The entire keyboard concept is obsolete especially in these simple usage requirement areas.

BTW Which will last longer in hands of a younger child, an iPad or a small laptop with a keyboard? Which is proven more intuitive to use for a child...?

1) Most CIOs at large organizations (private or public sector) don't have concerns about individual user data (you cannot assume that what you do at work is entirely private). Nor are they as paranoid as half the folks on this forum.

2) A lot of large organizations are already using Google Apps. This is a natural extension of that policy.

+1

A lot of companies already do this.

Some people here have no understanding of capital budgets, return on capital, etc.

This is a CIO's dream. $28/mo and everything is taken care off. Vs. having to map out a plan with a high up front capital cost for IT upgrades and having to incur the ongoing costs for software and hardware support.

I trying not to be obtuse here...

But, I see the ChromeBook as a dumbed-down netbook.


Last century, when I owned the computer stores, we sold a lot of computers and networks into education, from elementary thru colleges.

It takes a concerted effort to sell and support this environment... especially now with WiFi and/or back room servers.

Schools don't have much flexibility on what they can buy -- in CA, the schools often get money to spend on physical plant -- but none for teachers and supplies.

I do not believe that districts will be willing to replace already-paid-for computers with $20-per-month-forever plans... just my opinion.


Is there somewhere I can download the Chrome OS package to run on a Mac or Parallels PC so that I can see what it is and what it isn't?

Maybe then, I can make an informed opinion.


BTW, There is a live-blog of Google i/O at:

I/O Live

1) You're assuming these laptops are going to grade schoolers in the lowest grades. They aren't. Pre-teens maybe. But that's as low as it will go.

2) Unless that iPad is half the cost of the current version, the high up front capital cost will still not be worthwhile. Google is offering a continuous IT management program in essence. $20/$28 per month and Google takes care of all your IT hardware and software needs. Think of it like a high school contracting with their local Apple store to take care of IT for every student. That's the equivalent.

3) Keyboards are outdated? Have you ever written anything more than a page long in a single sitting? Heck, even Apple acknowledges that you need a keyboard for productivity (keyboard dock).

I think youre trying to force the iPad into a role designed for a cheap commodity PC. Sure, Apple can make the iPad cheaper. They could also release a Mac using Atom CPUs or create a Safari OS based on Darwin. I dont see any of that happening.

If you want Windows market share to shrink quicklime right? Well Chrome OS is the best solution Ive seen for making that a reality.

Sorry can't agree with that at all. iPad even has an optional keyboard, which would be necessary to do any serious text input. I cannot see school children trying to type using the on screen keyboard while the device is lying flat on a desk or on their laps. Terrible ergonomics. The on screen keyboard has no tactile feedback and you need to look at the keyboard to use it. Having an entire generation that can only type with their thumbs is an awful idea.

Then a lot of company business is being looked at by google.

The issue isn't paranoia, it's privacy. Companies like Apple, Microsoft, HP, etc, make their money buy selling hardware or software. google makes it's money by collecting and selling your personal information. (see my earlier post). If everyone said "No" to google's data collection efforts (and if google actually didn't collect as you requested...), they'd go broke.

Please, no need to be fearful. We are more likely to see Google as staying dependent on the crutch of the internet. So, if I understand correctly, ChromeOS uses cloud-based product.

Licensing the OS/hardware is a great way for them to make money... and as others have said, this is good for schools. But, isn't the network speed/bandwidth the limiter?

Either way, the absolute reliance on the internet is a major-minus for me.

That sounds just like the people that said the iPad would fail because it’s just a dumbed down netbook that didn’t even have a real OS.

Think about what a netbook is. Look at the OS. Look at the HW it’s running on. Now think about how and why the iPad is better than a netbook. Now think about how an OS built from the ground up for this HW can run so smoothly and feel so fast… now apply that to Chrome OS which is doing the same thing.


This is also just like arguments against the iPad. No one sold their PC to buy an iPad. No one is dumping their current perfectly working PCs to invest in Chrome OS PCs, but those Windows and Mac PCs will have to be replaced and for the price and utility Chrome OS notebooks are looking pretty good.


edit: Another example: Think of a college. Think of how many PCs they have throughout the campus. Not notebooks, but desktops. Desktops in the library for students to use for research. Desktops in the admin building for students to use for registering for class. ow think about how much power those machines use. Think about how they are usually locked down to just the web browser. They don’t have to rent these. They don’t have to let an outside company service them or use their online services. Now think of the cost savings per year for the Chrome OS desktop boxes that sip power and cost a fraction of the desktop computers they will eventually replace.

And as capital budgets get squeezed, being able to book $20/mo as an operating expense becomes a big plus.


Who says they'll rush out and do it tomorrow? But schools do have to upgrade their computers some time. And when they do, $20/mo vs. $500 up front, per student, is going to look awfully attractive to most bookeepers.

And again keep in mind the ease of managing all this. No virus software. No MS Office. You can set controls on what the kids access. No data loss if the kid (or teacher) breaks the computer. They just replace the unit. And no serious training needed. As Solipsism pointed out, how much training do you need to use a web browser?

People are overanalyzing this. This is not meant to be a seriously powerful OS contender. There's Windows and OS X for that. Kinda like how the iPad is good for most day-to-day computing needs, this will be good for most day-to-day productive needs for certain audiences.

Edit: There's a lot of focus on Google's rental model for Chromebooks. But there are options to buy as well. Organizations will simply have to decide on whether to rent or buy based on the circumstances and usage.

And till there are actually enough users willing to pony up for an ad free service, this point is at best...."meh"

Lots of people love to bark up the privacy tree. But how many of those people are sincerely willing to shell out for services (and there are alternatives) to protect that privacy? I'd say, you'd be at 1-2% of the general population, at best. If there was sincere demand for it, some entrepreneur would have made a solid business case and good money out of offering an alternative.

When it comes to the topic at hand though, this product is mostly aimed at institutions. And as far as your privacy goes on an institutionally owned piece of hardware, you should have no expectiation of any. So does it really matter whether Google or some the institution has your data?

I'd suggest that if this is a big concern, simply negotiate the use of an alternative platform or keep your Chromebook strictly business and separate personal and professional use.

Here it is. You'll have to use Parallels tho.

http://www.google.com/chrome/intl/en...&utm_medium=ha

OK!

Several posters here are supportive of the Chrome OS and the ChromeBook.

I don't see it... yet!


Do you guys promoting the concept have some actual "hands-on" experience?

If so, where can I get some?


Help me see the light!

I do like the idea of a striped down iPad to compete (just toss in the keyboard dock). And with Apple's retail network, Apple could easily do the same for schools. However, they would have to put forward the same kind of subscription model and same kind of service model (manage everything) to be competitive.

It's just launched. Obviously we don't have first hand experience. But some of us can use logic to see how things would work. And there have been more than enough demos out there to form an informed opinion. And really....it's a freaking web browser. It'll run like Chrome on your desktop.

Tell me, did you think the iPad was going to be a hit before you got your hands on one?
If you did, why would you suggest that this can't be successful without trying it out?

Exactly. And for those situations, there's this:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/11/g...#disqus_thread

Me too, Apple did it with the eMac. I have to believe it would be far easier with the iPad.

I know a lot has been said about a stripped down iPad to make them cheaper but manufacturers sometimes find it's more cost effective to run the same line with the same product to increase the economies of scale...stick a different label on it at the end of the line and sell it cheaper to schools etc.

I do agree that schools would find a $20 upfront investment quite attractive over buying a $400-$500 unit upfront. Airlines don't "buy" multi-million dollar jet planes for the same reason. They lease them.

It's all about cash flow, baby!

PS. And...this little Ghostery bubble shows what it's blocking then fades after a few seconds...note the lines through the programs!





Pretty cool!

Dick, sorry for the wrong link a few minutes ago. I posted one for the Chrome Browser in error.

Try this instead:
http://www.google.com/support/forum/...50cc24be&hl=en

A more direct link, and a much easier process, for a packaged version you can run off a USB drive is here:
http://chromeos.hexxeh.net/vanilla.php

I'll +1 your +1: Perfect analysis. It's the IT dept workers that may be out of a bit of work over this. Could cost a few jobs.

I completely agree with everything you said, particularly the part I quoted, which is why, when I'm due for a new phone in July, I'll be getting a Windows phone instead of an Android phone (since it's doubtful Apple will be bringing the iPhone to Sprint anytime soon...dammit).

Google is the new Microsoft and I refuse to help them grow their monopoly.

From a messaging perspective,

How can it be "instant" on if it has an "8 second boot time"?

How can it be "always connected" if there's an "Offline" mode/status (shown in the photo)?

Im curious as to what you dont see.

Is WebKit as the foundation of an OS a problem?

Is an OS that is a web browser a problem despite huge segment of PCs are only using the web browser?

Is it coming from Google the problem?

It will launch and run faster than a netbook running the same internal HW and yet will still have a greater battery life for the same size cell, all with a full-size keyboard.

I certainly dont have much of a need for my iPad but I can certainly see how its a great satellite computer for many users. I dont understand how anyone cant see how it can be useful.

Seriously. Some people just can't see how substantial this is. In this thread two perfect examples have come up:

1) Computers used in schools, universities and libraries that are locked to web browsers.
2) Computers in call centres that simply input machines running off web interfaces.

Today, those machines will be $600-$700 Windows machines, which require lots of management and will still require some basic software like anti-virus. Whether you rent or lease, just imagine replacing those with a box that has nothing but the browser. No device management headaches. No sys admin permissions (well okay, some...but not like before). No anti-virus updates to manage, etc.

I am not quite sure it'll be a huge hit yet. But I can see some serious potential in the concept.

But, apparently, it has been in use by business for a while.

I do understand the concept of a laptop. I have one. I have looked at netbooks -- never wanted one.

So, along comes a special, low-cost? laptop that just runs a web browser and some local copies of web apps.


Pardon me, but it is a leap in logic (at least for me) to assume that a browser and some web apps can do what I or any of the other 4 members of the household do on their computers.

Everyone can do surfing, email, WP, SS, etc. -- those are "meets min" for any computing device.

Can you create and edit a simple movie on a ChromeBook? We do this daily.

What about games or other specialty apps?


They say you can run apps while off line. What apps?


To me, the whole issue is going to be about:

1) the apps available for the device

2) whether these apps can satisfy the bulk of a person's computer needs

3) the cost

At $1,008 ($28 per month for 36 months) I can buy a pretty nice iPad, BT KB, and lots of apps.

what happens when soemone loses their machine?

what happens when they stop paying? does google send out a team to collect? it's a certainty that those $20 per month charges will have an enormous default rate.

where is the support coming from? this is a new kettle of fish for google to try and fry.

You could finance an iPad for about the same cost. The difference is that the physical keyboard and mouse with local storage, usb file sharing and good ergonomics are the compelling attributes of the Google solution. It is not as much about the price as it is the features since the costs are comparable. iPad is not well suited for the stated target market.

Does anyone seriously give a rat's behind about Chrome OS anymore?

Too little too late. The world has already moved on from the browser for the most part.

I work in Education and I don't see any use for "class set's" of browsers on cheap underpowered notebooks either, except maybe elementary schools and the cost is too high and the tech to confusing for that. I do know of dozens of schools who want to buy class sets of iPads though.

Yep mstone...good points! But if I had a 12 year old daughter, I'd prefer her working on an iPad2 than a google netbook. In spite of the iPad2's limitations!

Best

See my earlier post!


Simply stated, the web provides about 10% of what we (5 people) use computers for -- it'd be a lot less if I didn't follow these forums.

When I'm at my Mac I typically use several apps. Currently I am using:

-- Safari
-- Mail
-- Interactive Brokers Stocktrader (done for the day, but monitor after-hour trades and news)
-- GarageBand
-- Apple FCP Motion 4
-- QuickTime 7
-- iPhoto
-- iTunes

Sure, some of this I can do through a Web OS -- but where, how do I do the things that can't?


I can visualize classes of uses (not users) where limited Web-based apps would be sufficient.

However, I do not believe that Web-based apps are sufficient to satisfy most uses in business, home and personal.

For example: is there a ChromeOS app to teach math; Spanish; how to tell time...

Edit: I know I'm gonna' get zapped for this...

But how is ChromeOS/ChromeBook different than WebTV with a built-in display?

The average person doesn’t do this, but there is no reason it can’t be done. Can’t you upload and edit with YouTube already?


Yes and yes. They already announced Angry Birds. They have an app store and you can buy apps for it.


Any app that is localized, which would include native apps for playing audio, video and Google Docs.

This shouldn’t be an issue for you and tells me you’re not looking at this clearly. There are plenty of App Store apps that simply don’t work when your iDevice doesn’t have an internet connection. Flicker, Words with Friends, and Maps are the first three that come to mind.


1) Just like anything else it needs to have apps, but it already has the ones for education and business: docs and web browser. Just like Android Marketplace and Apple’s App Store before it it will take time to build. If it doesn’t it could sink the product but I wouldn’t count out web code based apps just yet when there has been so many impressive feats on the internet proper and on WebOS.

2) Why does it have to be “the bulk”? My iPhone apps don’t satisfy “the bulk” of my computer app needs yet they are indispensable nonetheless. I could live without Words with Friends, but I don’t want to. BTW, Wowrds with Friends could be easily added to the Chrome OS app store.

3) The cost has already been shown to be considerably less than a desktop or laptop for the intended utility and market.

That is pretty dumb math. I don’t see you using the same iPad for 3 straight years, but you’re also talking about a $1000+ upfront costs which simply don’t exist since you are paying a per month fee. Are you seriously trying to argue that an iPad is a replacement for an iPad and that an iPad sitting in a keyboard dock could at a 100 tables in a library or 50 terminals at a schools’ admin building or at 1000 desks at a company that accesses all data via the browser on their LAN?

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The point is that someone at Google forgot to realise that this is not what the education market wants.

They are pushing these as if they would be great for the school to buy as "class sets" for the students, but "office applications and collaboration" is something corporations need, not schools. By the time the kids are even using word, we are talking high school at minimum so that leaves out all elementary schools. By high school, the curriculum is already focussed on applications that won't run on these things. By college and University, the students all have their own laptops and even more specific application needs.

Some school IT departments will be fooled into buying these but they will regret it. This isn't useful for Education purposes at all IMO.

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Good points Dick...BTW, a little off topic (Sorry) but have you seen the KhanAcadamy.org? Really impressive for students in Junior High or High School..may be even younger. Watch his TED 2011 talk here: http://www.khanacademy.org/

PS. No Affiliation just love the website