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Apple again sued over iPhone location data, personal information

post #1 of 94
Thread Starter 
Another lawsuit against Apple has emerged, alleging that the company commits fraud, abuse and unfair trade practices because it transmits the iPhone's Unique Device ID and location information to third-party advertisers.

Filed in the United States District Court for the District of Puerto Rico by Lymaris M. Rivera Diaz, the new lawsuit accuses Apple of "intentionally intercepting personally identifying information," The Loop reports. The Weather Channel, Pandora Media and as many as 10 unnamed companies, provisioned as Does 1-10, are listed in the complaint.

According to the report, Apple faces six different charges, including fraud, abuse and unfair trade practices, for its alleged practice of capturing an iPhone's UDID and location data and sending the information to advertisers.

The filing comes on the heels of another lawsuit also targeting Apple and Pandora Media Group. Filed in New York, the lawsuit took issue with Apple's lack of a method to "delete or restrict access" to a device's UDID. The suit also alleges that the company collects data from users without their consent. As with a similar complaint from December 2010, the lawsuit appears to be based off of an article from The Wall Street Journal that highlighted the use of anonymous user tracking in mobile apps.

In April, a class-action suit was filed against Apple over an alleged "location tracking" file in the iPhone publicized by security researchers last month.

Apple has since revealed that the database in question is actually a crowd-sourced database of Wi-Fi hotspots and cell towers. CEO Steve Jobs said in an interview that people "jumped to the wrong conclusions" about the file.

The company admitted that a bug in iOS preserved the data for longer than was necessary. Last week, Apple released iOS 4.3.3 to address the issue.

While testifying at a Senate Judiciary subcommittee hearing earlier this week, Apple Vice President of Software Technology Guy L. "Bud" Tribble reaffirmed the company's commitment to privacy. "Apple is strongly committed to giving our customers clear and transparent notice, choice and control over their information, and we believe our products do so in a simple and elegant way," he said.

For several years now, Apple has been the world's most-sued tech company. As such, the company has brought on several prominent lawyers as outside counsel to protect itself.
post #2 of 94
I've said it once and I'll say it again... WTF. That is all.
post #3 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Unfortunately for Apple, that file was shown to be able to track one of the folks who testified to Congress to within 20 feet of his actual location as determined by GPS.

But the file is on the device and maybe on the computer and is not transmitted anywhere. No one has access to that info.
post #4 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

But the file is on the device and maybe on the computer and is not transmitted anywhere. No one has access to that info.

Hes just spreading FUD. Best to ignore him.
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post #5 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Anyone who access your computer can access the data.

So they have full access to your computer and your worried about them finding out where your iPhone was yesterday at 2:15 PM?
post #6 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris_CA View Post

So they have full access to your computer and your worried about them finding out where your iPhone was yesterday at 2:15 PM?

QFT.

If someone has access to your computer I think you have much bigger things to worry about than someone getting a general idea of where you've gone with your iPhone.

Besides, if that's big a deal Apple has announced that the information will cease to be backed up with iOS 5. In a few short months this will be a non-issue (if it isn't already).

Much ado about nothing.
post #7 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

I'd like to give Apple the benefit of the doubt and say their heart is in the right place. It's just getting harder and harder to do that. The revelation at the Congressional hearings that iOS allows any app developer to pull _all_ your contact information without your permission or even your knowledge was pretty surprising to me, for example.

Why isn't everyone bent out of shape over this one?! I don't think Apple intentionally did this, but it's got to get patched up. It's simple: make it optional, just like location. If there's a specific need for an app to have access to a UUID or certain information, just ask. If I want to grant access, fine, but it should not be available to any random developer from whom I happen to try an app. And add an "enable for all apps" and a "disable for all apps" and you're done. Everyone is happy. Otherwise we're all going to need to start asking our friends to not put our info in their phones! :-(

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

BTW, it's probably just a matter of time before lawsuits start appearing because an individual can be identified by their IP address, which Apple records. According to testimony from the Department of Justice the IP address can be used to identify an individual, whereas Apple claims their data cannot be used to identify an individual.

Yes, I've been waiting for this as well, and it's virtually certain to come. When companies (and forum posters) echo the laughable comments about how various kinds of data are non-identifying, it's pitiful. It only shows that many people echo what they hear instead of digging in to understand what's really going on.

Now, for those people who understand but don't care, that's another story entirely. I think they should all read the wonderfully entertaining privacy policy page for the DuckDuckGo search engine, (and the great real-world references) but hey, that's their choice.
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post #8 of 94
LoL this is becoming ridiculous. If that morons that are suing would take their time to read the privacy terms of must apps and not granted location services to them...
post #9 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

LOL. This coming from the guy who was 100% wrong with his claims about what's actually going on and demonstrated repeated he has no understanding of the issues at all.

You were wrong and you spent a great deal of effort posting your nonsense repeatedly even in the face of clear evidence showing you to be wrong. You'd do a great service to the public by simply not posting when you have no idea what you're talking about.

You're not _required_ to post on the internet, you know.

I'm thinking of suing the trash collection service, they collect bins full of trash including letters and bills which can be used to identify me and where I live.

They don't even have a privacy policy.

Want to join my class action, Mr Chicken Little?
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post #10 of 94
Just to add on the IP matter.
Judge Harold Baker of the Central District Court of Illinois ruled this recently. The decision handed down from his bench states that an Internet Protocol (IP) address does not necessarily correlate to a particular individual, and that it cannot be treated as such during legal investigations be they civil or criminal.

https://www.privacyassociation.org/p...dress_linkage/

The entire Judge Baker ruling on PDF
http://ia600403.us.archive.org/4/ite...51489.15.0.pdf
post #11 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Interesting, because at the Congressional hearings with Apple and Google the Department of Justice testified to Congress that it can be used for that purpose, as did a privacy expert.

Yup, it is. Specially since US Law base a lot of rulings using existing precedents.
post #12 of 94
I hope they get sued over and over until they become utterly paranoid about protecting user privacy. That would be a good culture to have.
post #13 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Interesting, because at the Congressional hearings with Apple and Google the Department of Justice testified to Congress that it can be used for that purpose, as did a privacy expert.

Of course the DOJ testified to that effect because they are the plaintiffs and accusers in a case and so IP=ID is their wet dream wish. Thankfully, we have a separation of powers, and the courts have said the law is that IP≠ID because thank is just bunkum from a power hungry tyrannical government.
post #14 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

It's your choice to throw away personal information in the trash.

There's nothing wrong with companies collecting personal information with your permission. It's when they do it without your permission, and sometimes even without your knowledge, that there's a problem.

And as I said, we're past the point where these kinds of denials are useful.

It's also YOUR CHOICE to not encrypt the iPhone backup (including the location data) on your computer, so we are in agreement. Hence, I can conclude: nothing to see here, just move along...

Also, in your rants you conveniently leave out that there's already a fix for this 'issue', that other phones have similar caches which can probably exploited if you try hard enough, and that the location data isn't actually that useful for anything since the accuracy is extremely low.

Just stop here, you really are trying too hard to make an elephant out of this. I bet you had also had a field day with the antennagate thing right?
post #15 of 94
These are all interesting points but I think the big issue here that we have to accept is that there is no such thing as anonymity online, just as there isn't on the high street or in a night club or wherever. The internet isn't some alternate reality.

Companies like Apple and Google need to act more responsibly than they currently do - that is becoming clear to the world - but ultimately people have to learn that they need to treat the internet and internet-connected apps with the same caution they treat strangers they meet face to face.

An IP address cannot necessarily be used to identify an individual. At best it can be used to identify a device. I suppose from a legal standpoint that's an important distinction; you have to prove who was using the device if you want to prosecute someone or an online crime for instance, hence this judge's ruling I would imagine. (I haven't read the pdf, but I'm sure it's riveting.)

I think the reaction to the consolidated.db file debacle was misguided, but we had no way to know that until Apple clarified it. Call me naive, but I believe Apple's explanation. It does go back to what I was saying about the need for them to be more responsible though. It shouldn't have been overlooked and the information could potentially have led to someone being tracked via a trojan, as magicj has pointed out. I'm sure Osama regrets backing up his iPhone last Sunday.
post #16 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

LoL this is becoming ridiculous. If that morons that are suing would take their time to read the privacy terms of must apps and not granted location services to them...

You actually read all 50 pages of the iTunes user agreement?
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post #17 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Yeah, this really surprised me. And now I'm wondering if Apple was stupid enough to do this on iOS, were they stupid enough to do it on Mac OS as well. Can someone write a Mac app that sends all my contacts back to them?

Of course they can! A traditional application has access to most of the data on your computer, so if it knows where to look, it can grab whatever it wants. Heck, it can do a lengthy search, for that matter, just to see what's there.

The difference is that on a traditional OS, we are in control. We can put whatever tools we want on our computer to monitor and/or stop such behavior. In fact, everyone who owns a Mac should be running Little Snitch. Seriously. If people knew how much crap goes on without their permission, well, I think a lot of attitudes would change. Just like Ghostery (a similar, but simpler-in-scope tool) shows people the amazing amount of cross-site profile gathering that happens constantly when you're cruising the web. It's appalling!

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

On top of that. I was disappointed in Apples policy on how to handle these situations when they're discovered. If Apple finds out that an iOS app is sending contact information back to a developer, they simply make them stop doing it. Nothing else.

Yeah, this is pitiful. There are limited options available to Apple, but they should at least require the developers to notify the affected users, and perhaps even revoke their developer license. This is not something that creeps into an app by accident.
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post #18 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

He’s just spreading FUD. Best to ignore him.

Yes. magicj should be on the ignore list and is now. I feel much better.
post #19 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Not only did no one know that outside of a small handful of specialists, Apple's privacy policy specifically (and falsely) stated that if you turn location services off, no location data would be collected.

As far as I understand this whole location cache thing, no data is collected if you turn off location services. Location data is pushed to your phone. Which effectively means you can deduct a coarse approximation of the location of the phone at a certain point in time, but it doesn't involve 'collecting location data', unless you include sending anonymized information about what cell tower you are near in that definition, which would mean every cell phone in existence is in violation. It's all semantics I know, but that observation goes both ways. It has been shown that Android and probably every other smartphone with location services has a similar file that you could try to hijack, in fact there's apparently FCC laws that mandate it. The only difference here is that the iOS cache was way too large and that it could end up unencrypted on your computer if you weren't paranoid enough to encrypt that backup. Hardly any worse than your typical OS security bug that could cause theft of private information. Do you propose to sue every OS manufacturer in existence for every security-related bug found in their software?

If you leave out the emotional reasoning and just look at this issue rationally, it's obvious to anyone that Apple was not 'tracking you', that they didn't intentionally log your location to use it for some purpose other than to make your phone work better, and that the only mistake they made was being naive about the size of the location cache. Nothing more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

In order to make that choice, you first have to know the data is being collected on your phone and stored on your computer.

The same holds for the contacts you have on your phone, your e-mails, your call logs, passwords you entered, what applications you have installed, and about EVERY other aspect about your phone and the way you use it. Do you sincerely think people read the (in the iPhone case ~60 page long) EULA that comes with the phone just so they know exactly what is and is not in their phone backup? I bet 99.99% of smartphone users just slap their SIM card in the phone, activate it and start using it, without knowing the least bit about what is and is not stored in their iPhone backup.

My question to you is this: are you posting here because you sincerely think Apple did something terrible here, intentionally violating everyone's privacy, tracking your every move like big brother, gathering every bit of information about you that they can get their hands on? Or do you just want to rake Apple over the coals because they made a mistake determining the size of the location cache? Because of a technicality that, if you spend enough time on an exegesis of Apple's EULA, may or may not be 100% covered?

Also: are you only wasting your time spreading FUD on AppleInsider, or are you doing the same thing on Android blogs? You realize that Google is in fact much more aggressive mining your data in every way imaginanable, right? Do you complain about Google driving around snooping WiFi data, indexing your gmail messages, pushing tracking cookies on almost every site you visit, collecting *actual* GPS data from Android phones, etc? Did you read all the EULA's for all these Google services to the last letter to determine whether they are 100% airtight and cover every way Google tries to invade your privacy?

This whole nonsense again shows the hypocrisy and eagerness of the media to jump on the big guy and generate lots of fuss about nothing. It's very similar to the antennagate BS that you hear absolutely no-one about anymore, even though nothing has changed to the iPhone 4 antenna. If the iPhone had failed years ago and Android and Google were in the position Apple is now, everyone would be jumping on Google instead. It's a shame websites but even the traditional media are into this boulevard-style reporting these days, especially when it comes to technology.
post #20 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

Just to add on the IP matter.
Judge Harold Baker of the Central District Court of Illinois ruled this recently. The decision handed down from his bench states that an Internet Protocol (IP) address does not necessarily correlate to a particular individual, and that it cannot be treated as such during legal investigations be they civil or criminal.

Tell that to the people who got FK'd by the RIAA.
post #21 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

You actually read all 50 pages of the iTunes user agreement?

I am an Apple consultant and Support specialist. Yup I did read a lots of EULA's
Thousands of pages on my 15+ years in this business.
post #22 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

Just to add on the IP matter.
Judge Harold Baker of the Central District Court of Illinois ruled this recently. The decision handed down from his bench states that an Internet Protocol (IP) address does not necessarily correlate to a particular individual, and that it cannot be treated as such during legal investigations be they civil or criminal.

It's a good ruling, in general. The problem is that even if it's not good enough for the courts, it's apparently good enough for law-enforcement and others, as a de facto standard. There are a lot of screwy things happening as law, technology and privacy start intersecting more and more. It's hard to know how a lot of these things will pan out over time.
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post #23 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

It's a good ruling, in general. The problem is that even if it's not good enough for the courts, it's apparently good enough for law-enforcement and others, as a de facto standard. There are a lot of screwy things happening as law, technology and privacy start intersecting more and more. It's hard to know how a lot of these things will pan out over time.

This was ruled a couple of weeks ago. I am pretty sure that will be used a lot cause its importance, trust me on this one.

To be honest, I really blame the user in general for been naive and lazy. How many people around the world has left their wireless router password as default or use "administrator"
This kind of case will go anywhere. I just can imagine the defendant lawyer asking them if they read the privacy terms of the app. Cause since they used it confirms they agreed to the terms of use. If they didn't and just clicked who's fault it is?

Another example is the guy that call angry at customer service/tech support cause his computer do not work... He wants his money back, blame the company, insult the rep, don't want to make the troubleshooting and when he do they just find he needs to connect the computer to the ac.
post #24 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blah64 View Post

Why isn't everyone bent out of shape over this one?! I don't think Apple intentionally did this, but it's got to get patched up. It's simple: make it optional, just like location.

Everybody acts like this is a big surprise yet the SDK has been available for years. More so the SDK is easy to understand. All this really is is grand standing by our elected leaders. Acess to contacts and the like has never been a secret.
Quote:
If there's a specific need for an app to have access to a UUID or certain information, just ask. If I want to grant access, fine, but it should not be available to any random developer from whom I happen to try an app. And add an "enable for all apps" and a "disable for all apps" and you're done. Everyone is happy. Otherwise we're all going to need to start asking our friends to not put our info in their phones! :-(

I think you have a point in that the owner should have access control. Then like a lot of people you slip off the deep end with silly ideas about having friends delete info. The reality is you are at a greater danger from lost or stolen devices.
Quote:
Yes, I've been waiting for this as well, and it's virtually certain to come. When companies (and forum posters) echo the laughable comments about how various kinds of data are non-identifying, it's pitiful. It only shows that many people echo what they hear instead of digging in to understand what's really going on.

Then maybe you should dig a little deeper yourself. You do realize that our federal government, the one currently posturing about privacy, years ago required that cell phones be made trackable? Apple may not be in perfect form but it is absolutely laughable that we have people in Washington actually making air time out of this.
Quote:

Now, for those people who understand but don't care, that's another story entirely. I think they should all read the wonderfully entertaining privacy policy page for the DuckDuckGo search engine, (and the great real-world references) but hey, that's their choice.

All we will get out of this is some BS legislation that on the face offers protection for our privacy but in reality does little to keep us safe. Most people in this world are far more exposed on their home PC than they are on their cell phones. If you understood what was going on you would realize this.
post #25 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Interesting, because at the Congressional hearings with Apple and Google the Department of Justice testified to Congress that it can be used for that purpose, as did a privacy expert.

They really don't know what they are talking about. Anybody with a bit of technical knowledge can spoof IP addresses or make use of other techniques to shield their identity.
post #26 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

If you leave out the emotional reasoning and just look at this issue rationally, it's obvious to anyone that Apple was not 'tracking you', that they didn't intentionally log your location to use it for some purpose other than to make your phone work better, and that the only mistake they made was being naive about the size of the location cache. Nothing more.

We can presumably (hopefully) take Apple at their word that they were/are not logging and saving location data. But as discussed on an earlier thread, user location data necessarily was/is sent to Apple in order for them to generate the data that's sent back. Perhaps a bit pedantic, but there's no evidence of innocence beyond Apple telling us they didn't keep that data. And it wasn't just the size of the cache, but the fact that this data was being used even when location services were completely disabled.

Yes, this data has always been available to the telcos, but there are legal regulations as to what they can do with that data, where there are no such regulations for hardware manufacturers, such as Apple or Google. The iPhone has made the world more complex, for better and for worse.

Hopefully the security dudes (and dudettes) will pore over Apple's latest fix, things will be great and we'll move on.


Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

Also: are you only wasting your time spreading FUD on AppleInsider, or are you doing the same thing on Android blogs? You realize that Google is in fact much more aggressive mining your data in every way imaginanable, right? Do you complain about Google driving around snooping WiFi data, indexing your gmail messages, pushing tracking cookies on almost every site you visit, collecting *actual* GPS data from Android phones, etc? Did you read all the EULA's for all these Google services to the last letter to determine whether they are 100% airtight and cover every way Google tries to invade your privacy?

Hahaha! I won't pretend to answer for majic, but I'm going to butt in and tell you why I don't bother complaining on any Android blogs. Google's entire business model revolves around profiling their users. Because of that, I would never dream of using an Android device. So I could hardly care less what they do. I do care about Apple's policies, because I'd like to continue to be able to use their products in the years ahead, seeing as I've been doing so for over 20 years.
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post #27 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

I'd like to give Apple the benefit of the doubt and say their heart is in the right place. It's just getting harder and harder to do that. The revelation at the Congressional hearings that iOS allows any app developer to pull _all_ your contact information without your permission or even your knowledge was pretty surprising to me, for example.


Unfortunately for Apple, that file was shown to be able to track one of the folks who testified to Congress to within 20 feet of his actual location as determined by GPS. Also, Skyhook, the originator of the technique used to create that file, says it was designed to track individuals to within 200 - 1000 meter accuracy, not the 100s of miles claimed by Steve Jobs in a press release. http://www.skyhookwireless.com/howitworks/

The lies are wearing thin and it's time for Apple to provide a complete end-too-end privacy policy that isn't packed with smoke and mirrors. They can do it themselves, or they can have the government do it for them.

You are a totally clueless hack. Please, go get yourself an education so that you actually know what you are talking about.
post #28 of 94
I think that these privacy discussions are good but for crying out loud, so much of our personal information is out there now, and has been for years. This is not an Apple only issue, like some are trying to make it. Sadly money grabbers are trying to paint evil scenarios and trying to cash in. I'm not saying that Apple cannot do better and I believe that they will, but I don't think that they are doing anything terrible here and I certainly don't believe that they are taking liberties with your info that other companies have had for years.

For example, I get points towards groceries every time I use my MasterCard. They know what I like to buy and how often. From this data they can roughly determine my sex, age, how many people live in my house etc. Your internet provider knows how much time you spend online, where you go and what you download. I'm sure every purchase that is made with a card is recorded and kept. They know how often I travel and where I like to go. Where I get my car serviced. Who my dentist is. I'm betting that info has likely been sold many times over.

As I said, these discussions are good, but people need to stay reasonable. If we go crazy over our personal information, then be prepared to deal in cash and use no mobile electronic devices, use no points programs or options cards, no web surfing, web searches, web purchases. Even that won't guarantee that you don't leave some sort of breadcrumbs.
post #29 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Anyone who access your computer can access the data. This would include things like trojan horse software. Someone accessing that data is how this first caught the public eye. http://petewarden.github.com/iPhoneTracker/ And it's why Apple stopped backing up the data to the computer.

You are a complete idiot! It is only on MY computer and MY iPhone, just like MY private contacts, private documents, private photos, private email, private bank information etc. etc. etc. Grow up!
post #30 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by iBill View Post

Yes. magicj should be on the ignore list and is now. I feel much better.

Same here.

I would like to request that AI add a feature on the blog that also hides replies containing quotes from to those on your ban list.
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post #31 of 94
The problem discussed here is really irrelevant. Privacy is now a non-issue. What is the information that is generated by financial institutions and credit card companies. Is it less than collected by Apple? Is it less than Google? How about hackers having access to passwords, credit card numbers? How about the recent disclosures by a supplier to banks, among others? Telephone companies have this same information. Up in arms about that? All computers can be hacked. Computer users effectively invite invasion of their machine by responding to spam. Information on social sites? Please.

I agree privacy issues are a serious matter, but what is being done about it is laughable. People will complain about who they don't like and pay no attention to those they like. Take on the entire issue. Remember, state sovereignty rested on two issues: does the government control the population, and can the state defend its borders. No state can, as witness the actions of many states, including the USA. It is looking like 1984 is becoming a reality. Who is fighting the entire issues?
post #32 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

● The data was being collected even when location services were turned off.
● The data was being collected hundreds, even thousands, of times per day (not the twice per day that some folks on this message board were claiming).
● The data was being stored for at least 1 year.
● The data _absolutely_ gave your location. Your location was triangulated off of cell towers and such in your area.
● The location was designed to have a minimum granularity of 1000 yards.
● Testimony made to Congress showed it was capable of tracking location within 20 feet.


● The inability to turn off tracking ran directly counter to Apple's privacy policy. This fact alone means they could have been sued and/or subject to investigation by regulatory agencies.
● Copying the location data to the user's computer opened up a security hole that could have allowed them to be tracked via a trojan.

There is no question that Apple's claim that the information on the phone did not track the user's location is bogus. This is verified by:

● Expert testimony to Congress.
● The originators of the technology being used clearly stating the purpose of the technology is to determine the location of the phone.
● It also takes only a moment to figure out that the iPhone cannot determine what cell towers are near its location without knowing its location to a reasonable degree of accuracy.

As to the rest of your post, I will say it once again: We are past the point of pretending this wasn't a problem. We are now at the point of wondering what kind of legislation Congress will impose upon Apple and other companies for their addition flaws in handling customer privacy.

STFU - you are a tiresome bore!
post #33 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

It's your choice to throw away personal information in the trash.

There's nothing wrong with companies collecting personal information with your permission. It's when they do it without your permission, and sometimes even without your knowledge, that there's a problem.

And as I said, we're past the point where these kinds of denials are useful.

Just as it was your choice not to encrypt your iPhone back up so that the database of cell tower locations (when it existed) was accessible to those who had access to your computer.
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post #34 of 94
What I understand is that Apple downloads the locations of all the cell towers and hotspots in the same area the user is, if they are not in the phone already. Then, looks for location of the towers and hotspots it is connected or identifiable, and uses these locations to calculate user position. So: a) all tower locations downloaded at the same time form an area of a hundred miles radius, you can only say that a user was at certain dowloading time within that area. b) These are not locations identified by the phone, you can not calculate user position with this data. At most, it would seem user was at all dowloaded tower and hotspots positions AT THE SAME TIME. c) all user in the same area would seem to have at exactly the same locations.
It would be helpful if those programs showing "user location" showed positions that have the same time, and also somebody could compare the purportedly locations of two users separeted by, say, 20 miles, and determine if they have exactly the same locations
post #35 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Everybody acts like this is a big surprise yet the SDK has been available for years. More so the SDK is easy to understand. All this really is is grand standing by our elected leaders. Acess to contacts and the like has never been a secret.

Sure, but it might as well be a secret if the general public doesn't know. You and I might read through SDK docs before breakfast, but few others even know how to, let alone would care enough to bother. It's only when the media gets hold of things and fans the flames that the general public finds out.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Then maybe you should dig a little deeper yourself. You do realize that our federal government, the one currently posturing about privacy, years ago required that cell phones be made trackable?

See my previous post.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

All we will get out of this is some BS legislation that on the face offers protection for our privacy but in reality does little to keep us safe.

Actually, I'm not so sure we'll get any legislation out of this, but you're right that there's a danger of a false feeling of safety if it's poorly crafted. Still, I'm happy that these issues are out in the media simply because it helps to get (at least some) people thinking about the issues who wouldn't otherwise give it a thought.

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Originally Posted by wizard69 View Post

Most people in this world are far more exposed on their home PC than they are on their cell phones. If you understood what was going on you would realize this.

Heh, you don't know me personally, so I'll let the last line slide. But if you're implying that most people are idiots, I'll agree. There's a big difference though, in what a knowledgeable user has control of on their computer/network vs. on their phone w/no admin tools, no firewall, etc. And I'll leave it at that because it's very late.
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post #36 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Yeah, this really surprised me. And now I'm wondering if Apple was stupid enough to do this on iOS, were they stupid enough to do it on Mac OS as well. Can someone write a Mac app that sends all my contacts back to them?

Of course they can. It is software it can do whatever it wants with accessible data on the computer.

Why do you think Apple runs apps in a jail on iOS in the first place? One of the whole points in allowing an app to only be able to access it's own data is to prevent apps from grabbing data from others. Apple gave certain bits of data global access because it makes sense for alternative apps to have access to things like your address book or pics.

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On top of that. I was disappointed in Apples policy on how to handle these situations when they're discovered. If Apple finds out that an iOS app is sending contact information back to a developer, they simply make them stop doing it. Nothing else.

What do you expect them to do? Send out a hit man!
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So the developer has stolen Lord knows how much contact information from Apple customers and Apple does not report the company, they don't make them give the information back, and they don't inform their customers a breach has occurred.

Report the company to whom? For the most part you have given permission to the developer in their user agreement. You know the ones nobody reads.

If you really want congress to do something constructive have them outlaw contracts of adhesion.
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And, just or the record, Apple did confirm all this at the Congressional hearing and confirmed that multiple breaches have occurred.

Apple in this case is just part of a circus act to get a few congressman reelected. You have to be off your rocker to believe anybody in congress gives a damn about privacy. I mean really just look at recent crap from congress like the TSA, the Patriot Act and a whole bunch of other legislation that eliminates privacy.

I see two problems with your postings. One is that you really don't understand computers and software. The second is you are positively gullible. Very few people in congress give a damn about you or America for that matter. They will make a big product out of a thousand page piece of legislation designed to "protect you" while leaving so many loop holes for industry and government that you will be no better off than you are today. Maybe even worst because they will give people a framework within which they can exploit you.

The reality is that your personal safety, privacy and whatever else you pine for is your responsibility. In any event find me a platform that is more secure than iPhone considering all the capability it has.
post #37 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by plokoonpma View Post

I am an Apple consultant and Support specialist. Yup I did read a lots of EULA's
Thousands of pages on my 15+ years in this business.

What is an 'Apple consultant'? (Serious question).
post #38 of 94
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post


for its alleged practice of capturing an iPhone's UDID and location data and sending the information to advertisers.

The suit also alleges that the company collects data from users without their consent. As with a similar complaint from December 2010, the lawsuit appears to be based off of an article from The Wall Street Journal that highlighted the use of anonymous user tracking in mobile apps.

So what.

Go ahead and collect that data. As if it has any friggin bearing on my day.
post #39 of 94
I have to just laugh and laaaaaaaaaaugh.
The idea you're running windows and stuffed with Trojans and malware that can read all your Microsoft email and contacts..... the idea that the iPhone data isnt secure because it can be loaded on a windows box makes me just laugh.

When are we going to get congressional hearings on why Microsoft still sells an OS riddled with spyware, malware, Trojans and viruses?

At this point, MS could be sued for not putting in their user licensing agreement that you WILL be attacked and your PI WILL be stolen if you continue using their products online!
post #40 of 94
I think some people have watched too many conspiracy movies. So Apple is hooked to NSA/Government satellites to GPS track you??? LMAO
That kind of technology worth billions of taxes and is used by the gov only. Thats why google maps do not show areas cause their importance (military bases, etc)

Even with specialized software and all resources Apple has I can't think Apple will invest on the matter cause is pointless.

Crowd data base is good for advertising and the whole point of it is that and the maps of course.

The DB file is no risk neither in your phone or your computer. It is not visible, doesn't have a label that states is there. NOT even the path to find it is of public knowledge.

Those senators and their privacy experts are full of crap and ignorant. They been making a storm out of some valid concerns but no other company in the world looks and works privacy as Apple does.

You should be worried of trojans if you machine is a PC windows. I am still waiting for a trojan to work under OSX. Malware is another stuff but again relies on how stupid is the user.
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