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Samsung shows off 2560x1600 10-inch tablet display

post #1 of 77
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Samsung is getting ready to show off a 2560 by 1600 resolution 10.1-inch LCD display designed for tablets, approaching Retina-like pixel density, though the display would likely need some work if it were to make its way into Apple's iPad 3.

Samsung and its partner Nouvoyance will unveil the WQXGA display next week at the SID Display Week 2011 International Symposium, TUAW reports. With a resolution of 2560 by 1600, the display has a pixel density of 300 pixels per inch, giving it a resolution within the "Retina" range as defined by Apple CEO Steve Jobs last year.

The new display uses RGBW PenTile technology and is expected to become commercially available later this year.

Samsungs PenTile display technology is the only display technology that operates at 40 percent less power yet provides twice that of Full HD-viewing performance for consumers compared to legacy RGB stripe LCDs. There is no other commercial display technology on the market today that offers this high of a resolution and pixel density in a 10.1-inch size display, said Dr. Sungtae Shin, Senior VP of Samsung Electronics.

Update: As noted by display expert Dr. Raymond Soneira, RGBW PenTile "only has 2 sub-pixels per pixel," compared to three sub-pixels on traditional LCDs. As such, the display will not have the same sharpness as standard LCD displays.

The Seoul, Korea-based company has, as of late, shown a preference for the 10.1-inch form factor over the 9.7-inch screen that Apple uses and the 7-inch size used for Samsung's first tablet. Samsung announced the Galaxy Tab 10.1, which has a resolution of 1280 by 800 pixels in February at the Mobile World Congress. However, after Apple unveiled the iPad 2 in early March, one Samsung executive said parts of the Galaxy Tab 10.1 were "inadequate" and needed to be improved, especially thickness.

Samsung Galaxy Tab 10.1, via PCWorld.

Several weeks later, Samsung showed off a redesigned Galaxy Tab that was .01 inches thinner than Apple's iPad 2. The flagship 10.1 inch version is also joined by an 8.9-inch model.



Shortly after the unveiling of the redesign, Samsung came under criticism for promotional videos of "true life stores" that actually used actors and an "independent director" who had done work for Samsung in the past.

In order to drum up support for the new tablet release, Samsung handed out 5000 copies of the new Galaxy Tab 10.1 at Google's I/O developer conference this week. The device is slated for a Jun. 8 release.

Though news of Samsung's new display has generated speculation that Apple will implement it in the next generation of the iPad, the 2560 by 1600 resolution is off from the projected resolution of the iPad 3, which is expected to double to 2048 by 1536 pixels. Apple has also preferred the In Plane Switching technology over Samsung's PenTile.

Initial rumors had suggested the iPad 2 would feature a Retina Display, but analyst Ming-chi Kuo of Concord Securities reported that production constraints and high cost prevented Apple from using a higher resolution display in the second-generation iPad.
post #2 of 77
iPad 2 HD me thinks... sooner than an iPad 3.
post #3 of 77
Sounds like Samsung could give their tablet a huge marketing win over the iPad with that display which is 16:10, but I question the overall quality of the PenTile design. How is the viewing angel compared to IPS? What does that mean for the GPU? Is the pixel count referring to the main pixels or to the sub pixels like we’ve seen in some AMOLED displays?
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post #4 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sounds like Samsung could give their tablet a huge marketing win over the iPad with that display which is 16:10, but I question the overall quality of the PenTile design. How is the viewing angel compared to IPS? What does that mean for the GPU? Is the pixel count referring to the main pixels or to the sub pixels like weve seen in some AMOLED displays?

true .. but then again how much will it drive the cost up ( would think the production yields would be low for a huge display ) and also can it be made in high enough volumes ? ... it's pointless to have a unit that would be cost prohibitive to most consumers and also be available in dribs and drabs. they'll only win in marketing points ( a check in their spec sheet )
post #5 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... Though news of Samsung's new display has generated speculation that Apple will implement it in the next generation of the iPad, the 2560 by 1600 resolution is off from the projected resolution of the iPad 3, which is expected to double to 2048 by 1536 pixels. Apple has also preferred the In Plane Switching technology over Samsung's PenTile...

Apple won't use PenTile. It doesn't give accurate colour reproduction.
post #6 of 77
Looks like LG is getting into the mix with a demo at SID at the same time as Samsung. Now that we have two players this is getting exciting.

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/13/s...ty-lcd-panels/ I did a little digging and found out a little about AH-IPS (Advanced High Performance In-Plane Switching). Turns out it’s exactly what I'd expect Apple to use.
Advanced form of IPS, has realizes 1.5 to 2 times the resolution of typical LCD panels. This ultra high resolution becomes particularly valuable when the emphasis is on displaying highly detailed images. The technology also improves display's color accuracy, which in turn leads to reproduce the original color precisely without color distortion. In addition, it provides greater light transmission which translates into lower power consumption while delivering exceptional picture quality, making it ideal for use in outdoor settings.

http://www.zimbio.com/New+Mobile+Pho...IPS+technology Besides the iPad this tech seems exactly what to expect in Macs coming after Lion’s release.
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post #7 of 77
That resolution packed into 10 inches blows my mind. Can't believe a full res bluray video would only take up 75% of this.

I'm not in the market for an iPad but if I was, I'd really hold off, this is an incredible upgrade and worth the wait, assuming its out in 11 months or less.
post #8 of 77
pssssssss

What's that sound?

pssssssss pssssssss

That's right, it's the sound of the iPad 2 pissing all over the Samsung Galaxy.
post #9 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Apple won't use PenTile. It doesn't give accurate colour reproduction.

It's also cheating on the real resolution. The actual number of pixels in a pen tile display is less than the number advertised. Real pixels are shared between neighboring counted pixels. A side effect is that it defeats the purpose of having a retina display: sharper text.

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post #10 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Looks like LG is getting into the mix with a demo at SID at the same time as Samsung. Now that we have two players this is getting exciting.
http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/13/s...ty-lcd-panels/ I did a little digging and found out a little about AH-IPS (Advanced High Performance In-Plane Switching). Turns out its exactly what I'd expect Apple to use.
Advanced form of IPS, has realizes 1.5 to 2 times the resolution of typical LCD panels. This ultra high resolution becomes particularly valuable when the emphasis is on displaying highly detailed images. The technology also improves display's color accuracy, which in turn leads to reproduce the original color precisely without color distortion. In addition, it provides greater light transmission which translates into lower power consumption while delivering exceptional picture quality, making it ideal for use in outdoor settings.
http://www.zimbio.com/New+Mobile+Pho...IPS+technology Besides the iPad this tech seems exactly what to expect in Macs coming after Lions release.

The LG's 9.7" IPS specs in the links above are the pixel doubling that Apple would need to allow devs to use the rez without difficult reprogramming. Looking good.....

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post #11 of 77
10.1" - that should find a home on some notebooks!

Wonder if Samsung also choose this size to keep is out of Apple's hands
post #12 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii View Post

pssssssss

What's that sound?

pssssssss pssssssss

That's right, it's the sound of the iPad 2 pissing all over the Samsung Galaxy.

Judging by the initial press reaction to the New Galaxy, I think it might be in the opposite direction. Positive is an understatement.
post #13 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sounds like Samsung could give their tablet a huge marketing win over the iPad with that display which is 16:10, but I question the overall quality of the PenTile design. How is the viewing angel compared to IPS? What does that mean for the GPU? Is the pixel count referring to the main pixels or to the sub pixels like weve seen in some AMOLED displays?

Pentile seems fine. The Original Galaxy S had it and most reviewers preferred it or rated it on par with the iP4 display.

Presuming the GPU will be the ARM Mali-400 MP in the Exynos SOC thats in the Galaxy S 2, then There shouldn't be a problem. Capable of drawing 450 million triangles a second - which is X-Box 360 level of performance!

Quote:
The graphics GPU will be able to render 3,200 million pixels per second, which is almost the same as the pixel fill rate for a Gainward GeForce 8400 GS with 256 MB of RAM. The GPU will be able to use a large memory bandwidth of up to 6,400 million bytes per second and will have native WVGA dual display as well as simultaneous 1080p HDMI output.

http://androidencyclopedia.com/tag/intel-corporation/
post #14 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sounds like Samsung could give their tablet a huge marketing win over the iPad with that display which is 16:10, but I question the overall quality of the PenTile design.

Actually the question is the overall quality of Samsung's proposition.

Who cares if it has a retina display if the OS and apps are crap?
post #15 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb510 View Post

iPad 2 HD me thinks... sooner than an iPad 3.

Yes, they would totally make the upgrade to a "retina" display incremental. NOT.

Do you even understand what it takes to make it use a "retina" display with the same performance? It would have to be a major upgrade, with beefed up CPU, graphics chipset AND memory in order to handle the image bandwidth...
post #16 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scaramanga89 View Post

Judging by the initial press reaction to the New Galaxy, I think it might be in the opposite direction. Positive is an understatement.

Yes, because the press reaction to android tablet announcements and the constant "iPad killer" touting had done them a ton of good, apparently.
post #17 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Pentile seems fine. The Original Galaxy S had it and most reviewers preferred it or rated it on par with the iP4 display.

Presuming the GPU will be the ARM Mali-400 MP in the Exynos SOC thats in the Galaxy S 2, then There shouldn't be a problem. Capable of drawing 450 million triangles a second - which is X-Box 360 level of performance!

http://androidencyclopedia.com/tag/intel-corporation/

If I recall correctly, people said that the brightness and vibrancy of the Galaxy and G1 OLED displays was good (though the 'vibrancy' meant that colour reproduction was not that accurate).

A lot of people did say the text was not nearly as sharp. Further analysis showed that this was a result of the Pentile implementation at the sub-pixel level.

Whether this is still an issue at this higher resolutions (and thus increased dot pitch at the sub-pixel level) only time will tell.
post #18 of 77
At the moment, I don't think it makes much sense in a tablet, current hardware isn't capable of pushing that much pixels and maintain a usable battery life.

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post #19 of 77
If you simply give iPad 2 this display it would kill performance and battery life, which is why I was glad to see iPad 2 make full-use of all of its performance advancements when it launched in March 2011.
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post #20 of 77
PenTile is crap, not suitable for reading and iBooks.

The less dependent Apple is on Samsung, the better.

Besides, there are other display providers (LG Display, Sharp, ... etc)
post #21 of 77
Touch screens of this sort of pixel density don't just have to be used for tablets, although I am talking about 30" not 10". They could be used for Macs that can run a hybrid iOS / OS X type OS. Think about the 'fold back' screen rumored for a future iMac allowing a surface for controlling music software with touch, editing and large keyboards as just one example.
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post #22 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

...Samsung will unveil the WQXGA display next week...

catchy name
post #23 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishstick_kitty View Post

catchy name

Great catch!
post #24 of 77
OMG that's as big of a resolution as 27" iMac.
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post #25 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It's also cheating on the real resolution. The actual number of pixels in a pen tile display is less than the number advertised. Real pixels are shared between neighboring counted pixels. A side effect is that it defeats the purpose of having a retina display: sharper text.

thanks for explaining this! you cut right through the fud.
post #26 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Actually the question is the overall quality of Samsung's proposition.
Who cares if it has a retina display if the OS and apps are crap?

Its a matter of opinion, Android 3.0 is not crap. And on the subject of OS I prefer Win7 over OS-X. From what I can see of lion, OS-X is actually getting worst while windows is getting better, not good for Apple.

I dont think Apple is going to be able to keep is dominant position in the Tablet market like it did with the ipod. The impact of being a control freak close down OS on an ipod are low, but on a device that is close of being a computer, the impact of being close down is much greater. The only thing saving Apple is superior hardware with great prices, not superior software.
post #27 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It's also cheating on the real resolution. The actual number of pixels in a pen tile display is less than the number advertised. Real pixels are shared between neighboring counted pixels. A side effect is that it defeats the purpose of having a retina display: sharper text.

I thought that issue had changed when Samsung's latest OLED2 was introduced? Are you sure your information is still accurate? Not claiming it isn't, but thought you might want to check.
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post #28 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by herbapou View Post

while windows is getting better,

After Vista, how could this *not* be the case.
post #29 of 77
What's the point? This HD screen is all fine and well, but Apple's competitors lack their own head water of content media. At this time, no one, simply no one can compete. Strike this one up as just another POS Zune.
post #30 of 77
Samsung no longer uses a pentile matrix on it's newest phones, but that doesn't effect this pentile screen in any way.
post #31 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by foljs View Post

Actually the question is the overall quality of Samsung's proposition.

Who cares if it has a retina display if the OS and apps are crap?

so true! us consumers who are interested in owning a computer of some form are no longer interested in chasing hardware specifications. nearly most of the time we bring home a computer because of its impressive specifications only to realize that there are barely few or no quality applications or content for us to enjoy all of these impressive specifications.

no more so-called productivity software for us because we deal with it everyday for work. and really, who cares which version of Microsoft Office or whatnot is included with the spec-out computers. today's consumers' bottom line is now: how reliably and creatively the company is able to make products that could help feed our insatiable appetite for entertainment and style. for now, apple is doing quite well with this bottom line.

ps: the geek side of me do care for a retina display. especially when there is good content to enjoy on it
post #32 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jb510 View Post

iPad 2 HD me thinks... sooner than an iPad 3.

No way... You must be dreaming if you think that iPad 2 or even iPad 3 will be able to run on that resolution.
Even some of the top performing Desktop systems running Nvidia GTX580 are barely displaying 3D games with playable frames at that resolution, and we are talking here about ARM cpu with a Power VR GPU... Good luck pushing that pixel density on that hardware!
post #33 of 77
Engadget is reporting that LG is going to have a similar announcement and that it will be about an entire range of screen sizes from tiny to TV sized and including 9.7 inch.

iPad 3 will have either 3D or Retina as there are few other NEW features to be added. I'm hoping and betting on Retina. 3D has the issue of only being viewable at either portrait or landscape (not both) so that's a pretty big compromise for Apple. Retina has its own challenges --performance!-- but the sharpness of text would be a VERY distinguishing and palpable reason for any consumer to be swayed toward it. Also, game performance is not an issue as it could just render at half res if need be.

I'm going to go out on a limb, a solid, thick, steady limb, and say that we won't see an update to iPad until first quarter next year at the earliest. I only bring it up because someone in this thread is guess(hoping?) otherwise.
post #34 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankenSigns.biz View Post

What's the point? This HD screen is all fine and well, but Apple's competitors lack their own head water of content media. At this time, no one, simply no one can compete. Strike this one up as just another POS Zune.

The point is that these companies are Apples competitors when it comes to full products but are their suppliers when it comes to displays, NAND, and nearly every other component in their devices.
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post #35 of 77
It's all about the hardware.
post #36 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Sounds like Samsung could give their tablet a huge marketing win over the iPad with that display which is 16:10, but I question the overall quality of the PenTile design. How is the viewing angel compared to IPS? What does that mean for the GPU? Is the pixel count referring to the main pixels or to the sub pixels like weve seen in some AMOLED displays?

We can describe it as the "oft criticized PenTile display". I read one article that said that it will compete with lower resolution displays in quality.

The PenTile technology isn't very good for text or graphics, though it's not bad for video. The funny thing is that ultimate sharpness for video is much less important than sharpness for text and graphics.
post #37 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

10.1" - that should find a home on some notebooks!

Wonder if Samsung also choose this size to keep is out of Apple's hands

I would think that other manufacturers are trying to get some differentiation from the iPad. By moving from 9.7 to 10.1, manufacturers can say that they have a 10" display, in an attempt to have consumers think that Apple's is a 9" display.
post #38 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

Apple won't use PenTile. It doesn't give accurate colour reproduction.

You can't expect sufficient reproduction when you're faced with PenTile disfunction.
post #39 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

It's also cheating on the real resolution. The actual number of pixels in a pen tile display is less than the number advertised. Real pixels are shared between neighboring counted pixels. A side effect is that it defeats the purpose of having a retina display: sharper text.

I think it is a little more complicated than just counting the pixels. The sub pixels are based on how the cones and retina actually perceive color and luminance. So in some respects it really is a retina display.

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post #40 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by cnocbui View Post

Pentile seems fine. The Original Galaxy S had it and most reviewers preferred it or rated it on par with the iP4 display.

Presuming the GPU will be the ARM Mali-400 MP in the Exynos SOC thats in the Galaxy S 2, then There shouldn't be a problem. Capable of drawing 450 million triangles a second - which is X-Box 360 level of performance!

http://androidencyclopedia.com/tag/intel-corporation/

No, they didn't. They easily noticed the lower quality of those displays. There were even several articles showing why PenTile displays were lower quality.

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...and-hacks.ars/

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/...-infuse-4g.ars

You can check a couple of links in these articles to read about PenTile displays, and another scientific breakdown of the quality relative to other displays. But no, it's not better, or even as good. It's worse.
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