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Alleged fifth-gen iPhone part suggests camera lens, flash will be further apart

post #1 of 46
Thread Starter 
Lending more evidence to suggest the camera and LED flash will be spaced further apart on Apple's fifth-generation iPhone, a new claimed "iPhone 5" component shows a camera part without an accompanying flash.

The purported rear camera part was revealed on Saturday by Apple.pro (via Google Translate). The site obtained pictures that claim to show both the forward- and rear-facing cameras on Apple's fifth-generation iPhone.

The alleged iPhone rear camera does not have an accompanying LED flash to its right, as the part does on the current iPhone 4. That would lend support to an alleged fifth-generation iPhone case that surfaced earlier Saturday, showing a camera flash on the far right of the rear of the new iPhone.

That case from an overseas third-party accessory maker also included a mockup that showed a larger edge-to-edge display. Various rumors have suggested that the next iPhone will sport a larger screen, though the footprint of the device will stay the same.

The picture sent to Apple.pro was allegedly sent by a tipster from California named "Steven." Referencing keynotes given by Apple Chief Executive Steve Jobs, the source reportedly suggested they would soon have "one more thing" to share on the next iPhone.



The same site has been the source of numerous Apple-related hardware leaks in the past, including the tiny touchscreen that last year became the centerpiece of the new iPod nano. Earlier this week, the site showed photos that suggest Apple could add a camera to its seventh-generation multi-touch iPod nano.

As for iPhone-related rumors, in February the site claimed that Apple was evaluating three new smartphone prototypes for potential release in the future. One of those models was said to include a physical slide-out keyboard, though it was not known whether the company actually intended to bring such a product to market.
post #2 of 46
Fine with me. I am so happy with my 4G, that I can wait until the 6G appears...
post #3 of 46
Two details come to mind:

1) The white iPhone supposedly had problems with light leaks. Perhaps by physically separating the flash unit it cannot spill sideways into the lens (possibly by glowing into the white plastic which then might affect the lens).

2) Another possibility is that Apple might be specifying a xenon flash bulb, which might be a separate component from the lens supplier.
post #4 of 46
Moving the flash further apart from the lens will help prevent red eyes. As far as I'm concerned, the iPhone 4 produces horrible red eyes with its flash, although they're not really red but zombie-yellowish.
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post #5 of 46
Another possibility is that this is actually for the rumoured budget iPhone version.

Or maybe Apple really hates flash. Har har.
post #6 of 46
For the next rumor, the iPhone 5 will have a hot shoe, and the flash will be external.

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post #7 of 46
I’d think the ribbons would be getting smaller, not larger for future iPhones. Does this mean we should consider a larger iPhone (I.e.: larger display with more room for components) or a cheaper iPhone where they don’t invest as much into smaller component?
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post #8 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dlux View Post

Two details come to mind:

1) The white iPhone supposedly had problems with light leaks. Perhaps by physically separating the flash unit it cannot spill sideways into the lens (possibly by glowing into the white plastic which then might affect the lens).

2) Another possibility is that Apple might be specifying a xenon flash bulb, which might be a separate component from the lens supplier.

I doubt it'll be anything other than LED. Whoever they have designing the iPhones camera is impressive. By moving the LED as far away as possible, but still in a reasonable position, the photos will look better and have more depth. It's why pro photogs use off camera flashes even if they have a pop up flash available. As long as people can adapt to not putting their fingers in the two areas (feels like I'm wetting up a joke) of the lens and flash, then flash photography on the iPhone will look a lot better.
post #9 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

I doubt it'll be anything other than LED. Whoever they have designing the iPhones camera is impressive. By moving the LED as far away as possible, but still in a reasonable position, the photos will look better and have more depth. It's why pro photogs use off camera flashes even if they have a pop up flash available. As long as people can adapt to not putting their fingers in the two areas (feels like I'm wetting up a joke) of the lens and flash, then flash photography on the iPhone will look a lot better.

That got me to think of some stupid ideas.

What about Apple leveraging their ecosystem so that two iPhones can take a picture at the same time to create a 3D snapshot? They determine their distance from each other, sync clocks and take a photo at the same time, then each process half the image and send the result to the other via BT so each has a 3D image. No need for special HW, just leveraging their ecosystem and control of the HW and SW stack. I wonder if thats possible for a 3rd-party developer?
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post #10 of 46
"side-to-side screen" ah you mean like on the first generation iPhone?
post #11 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

I doubt it'll be anything other than LED. Whoever they have designing the iPhones camera is impressive. By moving the LED as far away as possible, but still in a reasonable position, the photos will look better and have more depth. It's why pro photogs use off camera flashes even if they have a pop up flash available. As long as people can adapt to not putting their fingers in the two areas (feels like I'm wetting up a joke) of the lens and flash, then flash photography on the iPhone will look a lot better.

I understand what you're saying, and I imagine there might be some slight advantage in the manner you describe, but realistically we're talking about offsetting the flash a couple of inches. The advantageous affects of off camera flash typically involves at least a couple of feet if not yards.

That is, the angle of offset between the incidence of illumination from the flash and the lens will be some tiny fraction of a degree-- probably not enough to make a huge difference. I'm guessing the earlier theory is right-- that it makes the white iPhone easier to engineer.
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post #12 of 46
I've always kind of wondered why cellphone often have the flash located right next to the camera lens, i guess it made sense if they were a single component... pics should definitely be better the further away the flash is.

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post #13 of 46
There is this image also leaked.



It must be in Retina Display since the icons are so much smaller in proportion to the existing icon size and layout. Maybe it is a mockup? Not sure as it looks legit? \
post #14 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That got me to think of some stupid ideas.

What about Apple leveraging their ecosystem so that two iPhones can take a picture at the same time to create a 3D snapshot? They determine their distance from each other, sync clocks and take a photo at the same time, then each process half the image and send the result to the other via BT so each has a 3D image. No need for special HW, just leveraging their ecosystem and control of the HW and SW stack. I wonder if thats possible for a 3rd-party developer?

THAT would be sweet. I would think it would need to be able to judge distance between the phones with better accuracy than just regular GPS though.
post #15 of 46
Why is the article ended mid-sentence? "Evaluating three new....." What?
post #16 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Why is the article ended mid-sentence? "Evaluating three new....." What?

"ways of silencing rumor sites."
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post #17 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash-reverse View Post

Why is the article ended mid-sentence? "Evaluating three new....." What?

I dont know why they occasionally do that on their forum articles. They also dont seem to update them if theyve updated the main page, and never include any images or videos on the forum.

Here is the direct link: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles...her_apart.html
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post #18 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTuomas View Post

Moving the flash further apart from the lens will help prevent red eyes. As far as I'm concerned, the iPhone 4 produces horrible red eyes with its flash, although they're not really red but zombie-yellowish.

I never found the iPhone 4 flash to be that useful, to be honest. And yeah "red"/yellow eyes are a problem.

What I like most is the 720p video recording and pretty decent still shots. Video and stills without the flash turn out alright in good and poor lighting conditions. Although the annoying thing with still shots is that the camera sometimes has too slow a shutter speed causing blurriness... I've trained myself to shoot at least 5 shots of something in whatever lighting conditions and then later find a clear shot in iPhoto.

And it bears repeating:

The other thing to note is that the flash needs to be moved away from the lens because this was causing trouble with a lot of CASES... The light was bouncing off the cases back into the lens. That's why over the past year case manufacturers have had to adjust the opening for the lens and flash to avoid this problem... Some even advertise this advantage.

I had the issue with my InCase Snap so I couldn't really use the flash in the case but more recently my CaseMate doesn't have this problem.

So this makes sense for Apple to do for the purposes of the white iPhone and what must be quite a lot of complaints from users with cases that muddle up the flash light.

In any case this whole "new iPhone" stuff is currently moot for me because of my malfunctioning annoying Home button that apparently will take a month to "fix" by my useless greedy local telco that does not want to provide enough replacement units for customer needs.
post #19 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by moustache View Post

There is this image also leaked.



It must be in Retina Display since the icons are so much smaller in proportion to the existing icon size and layout. Maybe it is a mockup? Not sure as it looks legit? \

The mock up is using the iPad's icon layout. That's why the icons are farther apart AND have 5 rows of icons instead of 4.
post #20 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

That got me to think of some stupid ideas.

What about Apple leveraging their ecosystem so that two iPhones can take a picture at the same time to create a 3D snapshot? They determine their distance from each other, sync clocks and take a photo at the same time, then each process half the image and send the result to the other via BT so each has a 3D image. No need for special HW, just leveraging their ecosystem and control of the HW and SW stack. I wonder if that’s possible for a 3rd-party developer?

That would be really cool...

Another use is maybe 10 to 50 iPhones for Bullet Time:
http://gizmodo.com/?_escaped_fragmen...rds-red-carpet

You know what, forget 3D, making our own Bullet Time stuff is more fun, I reckon.



In 10 years all smartphones will be advanced enough, that you could actually "crowdsource" say 50 to 100 people taking multiple pictures at a venue, say a concert or famous location, and software on any one of those smartphones could ingest all that data and interpolate it so you have a full 3D reconstruction (using photogrammetry, etc.) of the entire site and you can fly through it (like a virtual SpiderCam*) on the screen, pick out people in the crowd, etc.

Here's some of the "3D" apps for iPhone:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives...the_iphone.php
http://gizmodo.com/5794582/trimensional-for-iphone

*Man I love SpiderCam (http://www.spidercam.net) in HD for my favourite tennis and football (soccer) live broadcasts.
Problem is, the broadcast directors don't use the SpiderCam shots and replays enough!
post #21 of 46
Deleted
post #22 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by suddenly newton View Post

for the next rumor, the iphone 5 will have a hot shoe, and the flash will be external.

lol!!!!
post #23 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTuomas View Post

Moving the flash further apart from the lens will help prevent red eyes. As far as I'm concerned, the iPhone 4 produces horrible red eyes with its flash, although they're not really red but zombie-yellowish.

But doesn't that just create lots of shadows?
post #24 of 46
Apple will never include a real keyboard. Anyone suggesting that is speeding bugus information.
Stop repeating this.

J.
post #25 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by GreenG4 View Post

THAT would be sweet. I would think it would need to be able to judge distance between the phones with better accuracy than just regular GPS though.

Hmmm... It seems to me that software could be written that would be able to calculate distances between devices via bluetooth or Wi-Fi or NFC. If BT/Wi-Fi are too "dumb" to detect distance, then I would suggest that both protocols be rebuilt to include that capability. There are plenty of ways in which distance between devices could be utilized.
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post #26 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunks View Post

But doesn't that just create lots of shadows?

A two inch separation between flash and lens would barely create an "outline" (like the "drop shadow" effect in Photoshop), unless you're right up close to the subject. There are plenty of tricks you can use to reduce or eliminate shadows as well.
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post #27 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by iTuomas View Post

Moving the flash further apart from the lens will help prevent red eyes. As far as I'm concerned, the iPhone 4 produces horrible red eyes with its flash, although they're not really red but zombie-yellowish.

The phone really isn't big enough to prevent red-eye. It's only a couple of inches. Point and shoot cameras have flash further from the lens than that, and they still produce red-eye.
post #28 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by elliots11 View Post

... As long as people can adapt to not putting their fingers in the two areas ... of the lens and flash, then flash photography on the iPhone will look a lot better.

It might even make for some interesting variations in the the flash will be on the bottom left when taking a landscape picture so one could easily put a finger or a fingernail in the way on purpose to soften or colour the flash etc.
post #29 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gustav View Post

The phone really isn't big enough to prevent red-eye. It's only a couple of inches. Point and shoot cameras have flash further from the lens than that, and they still produce red-eye.

I'm sure there's a patent floating around on implementing red-eye reduction for mobile phone cameras and flashes.
post #30 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Futuristic View Post

A two inch separation between flash and lens would barely create an "outline" (like the "drop shadow" effect in Photoshop), unless you're right up close to the subject. There are plenty of tricks you can use to reduce or eliminate shadows as well.

I don't think the separation would cause any issues with shadowing, on point-and-shoots the flash is at least that far from the lens...
post #31 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by jnjnjn View Post

Apple will never include a real keyboard. Anyone suggesting that is speeding bugus information.
Stop repeating this.

J.

If Apple ever did a slide out keypad on an iphone, I'd be moving to a different phone/company.
post #32 of 46
As long as it doesn't come with a smart cover, those are one of the dumbest inventions ever.

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post #33 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

As long as it doesn't come with a smart cover, those are one of the dumbest inventions ever.

The Smart Cover is the most brilliant accessory Ive used. its indispensable to my iPad usage. Without it I wouldnt use my iPad half as much as I do now.
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post #34 of 46
Lining up that many cameras and Synching that many shutters together would prove to be a real challenge and expensive even if it were cheap cameras. I've built BT rigs and it requires quite allot of work. Also iPhone camera lenses wouldn't really be up to the challenge either.


Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

That would be really cool...

Another use is maybe 10 to 50 iPhones for Bullet Time:
http://gizmodo.com/?_escaped_fragmen...rds-red-carpet

You know what, forget 3D, making our own Bullet Time stuff is more fun, I reckon.



In 10 years all smartphones will be advanced enough, that you could actually "crowdsource" say 50 to 100 people taking multiple pictures at a venue, say a concert or famous location, and software on any one of those smartphones could ingest all that data and interpolate it so you have a full 3D reconstruction (using photogrammetry, etc.) of the entire site and you can fly through it (like a virtual SpiderCam*) on the screen, pick out people in the crowd, etc.

Here's some of the "3D" apps for iPhone:
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives...the_iphone.php
http://gizmodo.com/5794582/trimensional-for-iphone

*Man I love SpiderCam (http://www.spidercam.net) in HD for my favourite tennis and football (soccer) live broadcasts.
Problem is, the broadcast directors don't use the SpiderCam shots and replays enough!
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post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The Smart Cover is the most brilliant accessory Ive used. its indispensable to my iPad usage. Without it I wouldnt use my iPad half as much as I do now.

While the comment about it being the "dumbest thing ever" is kind of stupid, it depends on how you use an iPad as to whether one finds the cover useful. It's certainly not for everyone. I bought one because I think the whole concept is cool but as it turns out it's fairly useless for me also and I haven't used it much if at all.

The chief drawback is that it only works if you use your iPad in landscape mode. It does essentially nothing for users who habitually use portrait mode and even actively gets in the way in many of those use cases.

IMO it's two most handy uses are:

- propping the iPad up on a table to watch a movie
- putting it on a slant so you can type in landscape mode when the ipad is laying down.

If you don't ever do those two things (I don't), then it's more or less useless. Worse, it's bulky, hangs down, and catches on things when in portrait mode while adding essentially nothing to the portrait mode experience. I find typing in landscape mode awkward and kind of ridiculous and I don't watch movies on it except in bed and in that case I don't need to prop it up so there just isn't a use case for me.

If they could make it so that it folds out of the way and doesn't need to be dealt with when using the iPad in portrait mode, I might go back to using it because it does keep the screen a little cleaner. I can't see how that could be done without making the iPad itself more asymmetrical though so I don't think it's likely.

Personally, I got tired of taking the cover on and off and carrying it around separately so I decided to just leave it at home after the first couple of days. Don't miss it at all.
post #36 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by foxhunter101 View Post

If Apple ever did a slide out keypad on an iphone, I'd be moving to a different phone/company.

I am not worried.
post #37 of 46
Just bring it... Want to update from my 3GS when contract expires in July.
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post #38 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I don't think the separation would cause any issues with shadowing, on point-and-shoots the flash is at least that far from the lens...

Ah, someone who has actually used a camera!

Correct. A two-inch separation isn't going to give results like a wedding photographer's rig (flash brackets, flash cords, etc.). What it might do is nominally reduce red-eye on closer shots.
post #39 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

While the comment about it being the "dumbest thing ever" is kind of stupid, it depends on how you use an iPad as to whether one finds the cover useful. It's certainly not for everyone. I bought one because I think the whole concept is cool but as it turns out it's fairly useless for me also and I haven't used it much if at all.

The chief drawback is that it only works if you use your iPad in landscape mode. It does essentially nothing for users who habitually use portrait mode and even actively gets in the way in many of those use cases.

IMO it's two most handy uses are:

- propping the iPad up on a table to watch a movie
- putting it on a slant so you can type in landscape mode when the ipad is laying down.

If you don't ever do those two things (I don't), then it's more or less useless. Worse, it's bulky, hangs down, and catches on things when in portrait mode while adding essentially nothing to the portrait mode experience. I find typing in landscape mode awkward and kind of ridiculous and I don't watch movies on it except in bed and in that case I don't need to prop it up so there just isn't a use case for me.

If they could make it so that it folds out of the way and doesn't need to be dealt with when using the iPad in portrait mode, I might go back to using it because it does keep the screen a little cleaner. I can't see how that could be done without making the iPad itself more asymmetrical though so I don't think it's likely.

Personally, I got tired of taking the cover on and off and carrying it around separately so I decided to just leave it at home after the first couple of days. Don't miss it at all.

Agree on all comments regarding the lack of usefulness, and would like to add that the biggest drawback is that it does nothing to protect an accidental drop on a hard surface or from scratching when in a briefcase. The original Apple case is much better at protecting the device, but for those who just want a thin stylish screen protector that leaves streaks, snaps shut abruptly, flops around when the device is in hand held use, doesn't protect the back, or corners or from impacts, it's perfect.

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post #40 of 46
I've been hearing rumors that the new Iphone 5 doesn't come out until next summer.
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