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RIM recalls 1,000 PlayBooks, Nvidia CEO explains slow Android tablet sales - Page 4

post #121 of 179
5/16/11 at 10:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Right on! Good to hear you actually being honest about Apple's weak productivity offering, without any RDF. I don't use Pages or Numbers very much at all, but my one big issue is no file system or coding support. I do code all day long and it would be really nice to be able to duplicate, rename, and open a php or js file, edit it and upload to a server. I realize there are VNC desktop apps but I don't want to fight the full desktop navigation on the iPad. I just want direct access to the simple text file. If they could do that, the iPad would be very handy indeed for quick fixes to my websites while on the go.

How about this? Even has syntax highlighting.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id383577124?mt=8
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post #122 of 179
5/16/11 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post

I wasn't try to play semantics I just don't consider using a mobile phone as a lifestyle in itself. But then I probably out of touch with what constitutes a lifestyle these days. Hey ho ...

Out of touch is a harsh way to put it, but I would say your feeling on cellphones is atypical. I have a family member in your age range that prefers a land line but has a cellphone for emergencies and when she's traveling. Gender dynamics likely also play a role in a cellphone for emergency needs. It's a complex world in which we live.
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post #123 of 179
5/16/11 at 10:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

How about this? Even has syntax highlighting.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id383577124?mt=8


Thanks for taking the time to share that. It looks like it has some great reviews.

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post #124 of 179
5/16/11 at 10:51am
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Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

The cell phone is just another technology. It's newer and less entrenched as a core necessity but that doesn't make it any less necessary to those that rely on it. Look at it as a way to facilitate communication. Just like landlines and the telegraph before it, and language as a whole before it. It's a part of modern society. Can you remove communication from society and have it still function the same? I don't think you can.

Let's not conflate communications and mobile phones. The telegraph, telephone and later on radio allowed almost instantaneous complex communication across huge distances without having to physically move (or get a messenger on a horse to do it for you). That was an enormous technological breakthrough. What do mobile phones bring to that advance except the ability to do that wherever there is a signal. That clearly has advantages in particular circumstances, but as someone who has lived for about 3/4 of my life in a world of no mobile phones and all of my life without one, how am I disadvantaged by not having one now? Apart from increasing the opportunity for spontaneous meets (nice I suppose) and being able to phone for help (assuming a signal) should I get into a scrape in some remote place, I can't think of any particular need.

I can see the huge advantages of email over the old phone trees we used in the 80s. I appreciate the immediacy and cost savings of being able to send text and attachments to family and friends in Oz without it taking 3 weeks to get there. I appreciate the astounding wonder that is the Internet and the fact that we can converse on this forum from separate far flung locations on the planet and search gargantuan amounts of information on the WWW. Those are real, genuine, worthwhile advances. But a mobile phone? It simply adds a layer of convenience to what was already there and in the process seems to have degraded human relations judging by the volume (in terms of decibels) and frequency of inane and rude and/or sexually explicit conversations that take place on mobiles in so many public places with depressing regularity.

But then I am a weirdo of course ...
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post #125 of 179
5/16/11 at 10:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

... but I would say your feeling on cellphones is atypical.

I'm in complete agreement on that. All my friends find me very odd and then see my iPod touch (again!) and say "You said you didn't have a phone!". Always a laugh for about 3 seconds.
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post #126 of 179
5/16/11 at 10:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Right on! Good to hear you actually being honest about Apple's weak productivity offering, without any RDF. I don't use Pages or Numbers very much at all, but my one big issue is no file system or coding support. I do code all day long and it would be really nice to be able to duplicate, rename, and open a php or js file, edit it and upload to a server. I realize there are VNC desktop apps but I don't want to fight the full desktop navigation on the iPad. I just want direct access to the simple text file. If they could do that, the iPad would be very handy indeed for quick fixes to my websites while on the go.

I agree with this -- though if you are using PHP or JavaScript you are making matters difficult by using too low-level languages (kidding).

I think there are several iPad Note Taking programs that can do most of what you want -- they have a mini-file system and text editor within the app -- as well as the ability to upload/download files.

When I first started doing web development (1997) I did most of my programming (Perl, HTML, JavaScript) online (dial-up), using a browser to a Web Host that supported this method (online program/data entry and file manipulation). I had nothing, really, stored on the local Mac as there was no means to run or test the programs,

As the local machine, and the OS became more powerful, it became possible to do more and more offline -- to the point where I could develop, program, test and run the entire system on my local
computer (Apache, PHP, Perl, ColdFusion, MYSQL, etc.). Then, publish the finished "site" to the web hosting service.

If you can find a Web Hosting service that allows program editing and file uploads through a browser -- then you, likely could do site maintenance with an iPad -- or maybe even site creation with an iPad and BT KB.
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
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post #127 of 179
5/16/11 at 10:58am
A co-worker of mine, who is a Blackberry fan, tried 3 display units at a Best Buy in the Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario area (RIMs own backyard no less). He called up the keyboard to type a url into the browser and partially through entering the address, the keyboard disappeared and the unit locked up. The same thing happened on all three of the in-store demo units.

Half-baked and rushed to market.
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post #128 of 179
5/16/11 at 11:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post

Let's not conflate communications and mobile phones. The telegraph, telephone and later on radio allowed almost instantaneous complex communication across huge distances without having to physically move (or get a messenger on a horse to do it for you). That was an enormous technological breakthrough. What do mobile phones bring to that advance except the ability to do that wherever there is a signal.

For starters it allows instantly communication while allowing you to physically move. Now it also allows complex data to be sent and recieved.

Quote:
That clearly has advantages in particular circumstances, but as someone who has lived for about 3/4 of my life in a world of no mobile phones and all of my life without one, how am I disadvantaged by not having one now?

Who said you were? No one is saying that a cellphone should offer you the same utility as moat others, but you shouldn't discount the tech as a requiement for modern society.

The fact is you can say that about all technology. "Why do we need to grow crips? We were doing just fine hunting and gathering before." Hunter-gather societies tend to have an excessive amount of free time compared to other societies (Check out the !Kung).

It sounds like you are being a Luddite against new tech technologies that have come into being while accepting the ones that already existed. That doesn't seem far to me.
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post #129 of 179
5/16/11 at 11:07am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

How about this? Even has syntax highlighting.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id383577124?mt=8

Yesus Marta.. that's BBEdit for the iPad!
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #130 of 179
5/16/11 at 11:07am
What kind of QNX issue forced RIM to physically recall 1000 PlayBooks? Don't they have a software update mechanism? Sounds worse than Android with all its dozens of slightly incompatible fragmented code branches.

So, now that there are 1000 fewer PlayBooks on the market, is Apple getting closer to 100% market share in enterprise (going by ActiveSync usage)? Or is it still somewhere between 99.8% and 99.9%?

Here's the Intermedia ActiveSync usage report:

http://blog.intermedia.net/2011/05/1...-over-android/

Note that Android is a distant 3rd behind iPhone at #1 and "Other" at #2 in enterprise usage. Pretty embarrassing for the fandroids out there I'd bet.

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post #131 of 179
5/16/11 at 11:08am
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

While I agree that Android is a worthy competitor to iOS now, and a good alternative to an iPhone for many people, I disagree that it has anything to do with choice. That's just the same hollow reasoning you get from the 'anti-Apple' people you mentioned, but it's completely meaningless. People aren't anti-Apple because Android offers more choice, in fact for typical customers Android offers less. The fact that you can sideload applications, hook up a mouse or a printer, connect your phone over HDMI or flash custom ROMS, it's all so far removed from what 'normal people' do with their phones that it doesn't even cross their mind when buying a phone. The choices people care about are 'can I use Netflix on it', 'can I install Angry Birds on it', 'does it have WhatsApp and Skype', 'how easy is it to operate the thing', etc. In terms of quality applications iOS provides more choice, not less.

I have yet to meet the first person in real life who admits to buying an Android phone because it offers him/here 'more choice'. My observation is that the only choice people want to make about a smartphone is 'do I want to spend that much $$$ on a device that looks and works like this?'. If they conclude the iPhone is too expensive and they played around with an Android phone and it looks ok to them, they will go for the Android phone. I'd estimate the percentage of potential buyers who eventually decide to not buy an iPhone because they think it 'offers them less choice' is close to 1%. People always think they want more choice, but actually they don't want more than 2 or 3 choices, otherwise they lose their overview and get all stressed out because after they choose one of the many available choices, the idea they might have made the wrong choice because they didn't have the time or energy to research all their options will keep nagging.

I think people don't 'hate Apple' because Apple gives you less choice, people 'hate Apple' because it's human nature for many people to hate on something succesful, especially something succesful that isn't cheap. That's really all there is to it. It's the Microsoft effect from 10 years back, but now it's Apple who draws all the attention.

Well said.
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post #132 of 179
5/16/11 at 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

What kind of QNX issue forced RIM to physically recall 1000 PlayBooks? Don't they have a software update mechanism? Sounds worse than Android with all its dozens of slightly incompatible fragmented code branches.

So, now that there are 1000 fewer PlayBooks on the market, is Apple getting closer to 100% market share in enterprise (going by ActiveSync usage)? Or is it still somewhere between 99.8% and 99.9%?

Here's the Intermedia ActiveSync usage report:

http://blog.intermedia.net/2011/05/1...-over-android/

Note that Android is a distant 3rd behind iPhone at #1 and "Other" at #2 in enterprise usage. Pretty embarrassing for the fandroids out there I'd bet.

As to the QNX issue:

I think the PretendBook uses OTA setup -- as opposed to the "play time" iPad that requires tethering to an operational PC or Mac to perform setup.

Using this approach,, the PretendBook needs a pristine OS to receive and install OTA updates (I understand that there are quite a few updates).

If QNX is broken, and you can't tether -- it's "No Soup For You, Today" -- but back to the factory...

A few of these round trips -- and there goes the meagre profit...

...I certainly hope that the PretendBook can reboot without...

Edit:

On second thought, the PretendBook just requires a longer USB tether than the iPad
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
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post #133 of 179
5/16/11 at 11:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiltedGreen View Post

I'm in complete agreement on that. All my friends find me very odd and then see my iPod touch (again!) and say "You said you didn't have a phone!". Always a laugh for about 3 seconds.

My father is in your age category and he has a cheap dumb phone which was for work and now a way for my mother to get ahold of him on the golf course. It's cheaper than having an errand boy courier a message. He would have no use for or ability to use an iPod Touch. I'd say that's typical for his age group.

My mother, same age range, loves her iPad and iPhone. She was atypical when for her age group when she got them and didn't even think they'd offer her viable utility until I presented them to her. Now I'd say she is becoming the norm as most of her friends fall seem to own at least the iPad with many also owning an iPhone.

Me, I'm atypical because I like to buy to most products to play with, retired at 30yo and never wear the same pair of socks twice. We're all fringe people in some way.
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post #134 of 179
5/16/11 at 11:28am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SockRolid View Post

What kind of QNX issue forced RIM to physically recall 1000 PlayBooks? Don't they have a software update mechanism? Sounds worse than Android with all its dozens of slightly incompatible fragmented code branches.

So, now that there are 1000 fewer PlayBooks on the market, is Apple getting closer to 100% market share in enterprise (going by ActiveSync usage)? Or is it still somewhere between 99.8% and 99.9%?

Note that Android is a distant 3rd behind iPhone at #1 and "Other" at #2 in enterprise usage. Pretty embarrassing for the fandroids out there I'd bet.

I looked at these two "Slates" at the Microsoft Store. They run a full version of Windows 7 supposedly optimized for tablet. They did seem a little clunky but the fact that it has all the I/O ports, file system and standard applications makes it viable device for those inclined towards Windows. I don't have any real world experience just 5 minutes of hands on at the store. They are quite a bit more expensive than iPad but...

There were also quite a few accessories for them such as docks and keyboards.

http://www.exopc.com/devices/

http://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Slate_EP121/

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post #135 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:14pm
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Originally Posted by mstone View Post

I looked at these two "Slates" at the Microsoft Store. They run a full version of Windows 7 supposedly optimized for tablet. They did seem a little clunky but the fact that it has all the I/O ports, file system and standard applications makes it viable device for those inclined towards Windows. I don't have any real world experience just 5 minutes of hands on at the store. They are quite a bit more expensive than iPad but...

There were also quite a few accessories for them such as docks and keyboards.

http://www.exopc.com/devices/

http://www.asus.com/Eee/Eee_Pad/Eee_Slate_EP121/

The problem with Windows slates is that the battery life can be best described as "utter shit." EP121 in particular, you'll be lucky to get two hours actually using the thing. Windows on ARM should help that though.

Edit - Just so I don't seem overly negative, I would LOVE to see a true successor to the HP tc1100.
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post #136 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:22pm
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Originally Posted by Urinal Mint View Post

The problem with Windows slates is that the battery life can be best described as "utter shit." EP121 in particular, you'll be lucky to get two hours actually using the thing. Windows on ARM should help that though.

And MS can claim Windows 7 was designed for use as a tablet but that's like putting pontoons on a caravan/RV and saying it was designed for use as a houseboat.
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post #137 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:27pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


Me, I'm atypical because I like to buy to most products to play with, retired at 30yo and never wear the same pair of socks twice. We're all fringe people in some way.

What do you do with the socks? I suppose they must be laundered and donated to some charitable organization.
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post #138 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:32pm
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Originally Posted by Eternal Emperor View Post

What do you do with the socks? I suppose they must be laundered and donated to some charitable organization.

Trash. If I wanted the hassle of laundering, turning right-side out, and matching socks it would limit the benefit. The other benefits are always having soft socks. New socks feel sooo good. It's only about $30 a month when you buy in bulk. I save at least twice that by no longer getting a soft drink when I eat out.
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post #139 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Emperor View Post

I'm not laughing either, but I think that there are some fundamentals that may bite Android. I don't think that Android is selling like hotcakes. Free phones with two year contracts and buy one, get one free is not selling. It's giving it away. They are being given away like hotcakes for sure.

Again, my posts had nothing to do with market share. I only used market share as an example. My original post was in response to this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urinal Mint View Post

All together now, folks:

1. Point
2. Laugh


People laughed at the original Android. It does now sell like hot cakes. 400,000 activations a day - every day. Not all of that is 2 for 1's. It was stupid to laugh at Android handsets in the past and it's stupid to laugh at Android tablets today. Just choose the option like the best and live with it. Not everybody has to agree with you.
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post #140 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

No. Android devices vs. iOS devices.

There are far more iOS devices. More sales, more in use, and their numbers are increasing at a faster rate as well.

I was trying to avoid making a long long post by pointing out the inexactness of the terms being used. The poster used the term "market" without specifying if it was addressable market or current market share or even if they were talking about smartphone market share or mobile device market share. Like most Android supporters, they were probably talking only about "US sales to the channel of handests that could be referred to as smartphones," but instead they said "market."

So instead of rephrasing everything they said, pointing out the grammatical and logical errors in the sentences and then constructing the huge counter argument, I just took the statement literally and pointed out that the statement was wrong.

The shorthand is:

market leading smartphone = iPhone (by a vast, vast, vast margin)
market leading platform = iOS (by only a huge margin, not a vast one)

Those are the basic facts of the Apple vs. Google war we've all been following these last few years.

Actually, I think you've got it exactly backwards. There are more activated Android handsets than iPhones. But if you add in all the iPads and iPod touch's, then iOS probably leads over Android.
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post #141 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Trash. If I wanted the hassle of laundering, turning right-side out, and matching socks it would limit the benefit. The other benefits are always having soft socks. New socks feel sooo good. It's only about $30 a month when you buy in bulk. I save at least twice that by no longer getting a soft drink when I eat out.

Now we are getting way off track and probably more info than we actually need to know. Of course if you buy socks in bulk, all of them are the same, so matching shouldn't be too challenging. So what about the the hand washable delicates? Inquiring minds want to know.

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post #142 of 179
5/16/11 at 12:59pm
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Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Actually, I think you've got it exactly backwards. There are more activated Android handsets than iPhones. But if you add in all the iPads and iPod touch's, then iOS probably leads over Android.

I think Android would still knave more activations and should increasing it's lead each month. Going by memory we have about 18M iPhones, 6M iPod Touches, 8M iPads and 1M AppleTVs for about 330,000 per day. (Not going to do the math again so if someone wants to get more accurate figures go for it).

But Android fans need to keep in mind this all from one vendor, not dozens; from only half the US MNOs, and zero MVNOs; and with tech that was released up to a year ago and with very narrow price points and options compared to all the options with Android. I'll say it again: What is Android and their vendors doing wrong to not be much, much farther ahead when comparing mobile OS activations?


Quote:
Originally Posted by mstone View Post

Now we are getting way off track and probably more info than we actually need to know. Of course if you buy socks in bulk, all of them are the same, so matching shouldn't be too challenging. So what about the the hand washable delicates? Inquiring minds want to know.

Not really. I have the typical tall sock for everyday use and the short socks for active wear. Also, one usually doesn't wait until all their socks are used before washing so you get uneven wear of the softness of the cotton and fading of the color. As for my other clothing, I don't where them in pairs so it's not an issue but I will admit that I mostly wear the same exact clothes like Einstein did. They are usually designer or bespoke, but pretty much the same so I don't waste time figuring out what to wear. I also use a laundry service, which negates my initial reason for discarding my socks, but not the second. (is that enough atypical data on me for the day?)
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post #143 of 179
5/16/11 at 1:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post


Me, I'm atypical because I like to buy to most products to play with, retired at 30yo and never wear the same pair of socks twice. We're all fringe people in some way.

Mmmm... I retired at 50 and like to buy E-Toys.... but I never wear the same pair of socks once!

With apologies to David Bromberg:

I like to sleep late in the mornin'
I don't like to wear no shoes.
Make love to the wimmin' while I'm livin'...
Get drunk on a bottle o' booze!

I Like To Sleep Late In The Morning
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #144 of 179
5/16/11 at 1:10pm
I think the bigger problem for the Honeycomb tablets is that the manufacturers have to actually make money on these things and, unlike the droid phones, they can't just give them away.

Here's the system that's at work right now: iPhone users paid for the phone and will pay for the iPad and buy software. Droid users (especially the "i got it for free" adopters) didn't pay for the phone and won't pay for anything that isn't free, be that a tablet or software.

Which is also why all around the droid market is less profitable than the iPhone/iPad market.
Heck, if Ferari gave away cars I'd take one, but I'd never buy one.

So I suspect the Honeycomb people have a problem in that their 'large pool' of android users (potential adopters) may be a mile wide, but it's only an inch deep. They have a bunch of customers who won't spend money.

Until the day these things are given away the numbers will stay low.
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post #145 of 179
5/16/11 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Curmudgeon View Post

Again, my posts had nothing to do with market share. I only used market share as an example. My original post was in response to this:



People laughed at the original Android. It does now sell like hot cakes. 400,000 activations a day - every day. Not all of that is 2 for 1's. It was stupid to laugh at Android handsets in the past and it's stupid to laugh at Android tablets today. Just choose the option like the best and live with it. Not everybody has to agree with you.

They *don't* sell like hotcakes. Look, if you look at AT&T, at verizon, heck, at Amazon, you see prices starting as low as one cent. And there are free ones, and BOGO.

Those are *huge* amounts of giveaways. Apple only has one unit, the 8g 3GS that is reduced price and it outsells ALL Android units.

Sorry, but while I don't literally laugh, it is laughable. The carriers are giving the phone away to get your to buy a 2 year plan and few people are making money.

So why wouldn't someone with an interest at least smile. "The largest mover of units causes the vendors to lose money." What is Motorola going to do? Make it up in volume?

Apple is "closed" and "expensive" and yet they have moved more product.
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post #146 of 179
5/16/11 at 1:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

What is Android and their vendors doing wrong to not be much, much farther ahead when comparing mobile OS activations?

i don't know that anything is "wrong". They've only been selling Android phones for about 30 months compared to about 47 months for the iPhone. About a 1.5 year lead. And daily Android activations have doubled in the past 7 months, from 200K in Sept/09 to 400K the beginning of this month. Android has done much better than almost anyone here would have expected IMHO.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #147 of 179
5/16/11 at 1:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Trash. If I wanted the hassle of laundering, turning right-side out, and matching socks it would limit the benefit. The other benefits are always having soft socks. New socks feel sooo good. It's only about $30 a month when you buy in bulk. I save at least twice that by no longer getting a soft drink when I eat out.

Sorry, I can't resist...

Socks
"So at the end of the presentation, Steve came up to me and said: Is the iPhone worth criticizing? And I said: Make the screen five inches by eight inches, and you’ll rule the world."
– Alan Kay –
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post #148 of 179
5/16/11 at 1:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Emperor View Post

They *don't* sell like hotcakes. Look, if you look at AT&T, at verizon, heck, at Amazon, you see prices starting as low as one cent. And there are free ones, and BOGO.

Those are *huge* amounts of giveaways. Apple only has one unit, the 8g 3GS that is reduced price and it outsells ALL Android units.

Sorry, but while I don't literally laugh, it is laughable. The carriers are giving the phone away to get your to buy a 2 year plan and few people are making money.

So why wouldn't someone with an interest at least smile. "The largest mover of units causes the vendors to lose money." What is Motorola going to do? Make it up in volume?

Apple is "closed" and "expensive" and yet they have moved more product.

Neither Motorola or Samsung or HTC nor any other phone manufacturer is giving their phones away free of charge.

If the service providers see value in bundling a free or subsidized phone (the iPhone is also subsidized) in with a $3000 contract, you would have to assume they've found it worthwhile.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #149 of 179
5/16/11 at 1:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

...The Good News is that the majority of the 1.000 units are Still In The Channel and have Not Been Sold To End Users!

LOL. To hear RIM call that good news!
If 1000 iPad 2's were similarly affected, Apple would have sold them all in the first hour.

"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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"Can't innovate anymore my ass!" -- Phil Schiller

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post #150 of 179
5/16/11 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Neither Motorola or Samsung or HTC nor any other phone manufacturer is giving their phones away free of charge.

If the service providers see value in bundling a free or subsidized phone (the iPhone is also subsidized) in with a $3000 contract, you would have to assume they've found it worthwhile.

I didn't say vendor. I said "carriers" and they are giving the phones away. Of course the iPhone is subsidized, but they aren't and have never been available(at least in the US) for free, BOGO or reduced priced in a few months. When Apple does allow, ALLOW a price drop, it is for the previous generation phone, usually with far less storage.

All of the above happen, constantly for Android phones. Usually that $299 is reduced within 45-60 days. The question to ask is why? Well, we know why for the carriers. Long, fat contracts. You think that the carriers is eating that price cut?

Please. Unlikely.

It is far more likely that they've negotiated difference price points for the Android vendors because there are so many. "Don't want to give me a cheaper price HTC? Fine, I'll bet Samsung will play ball."

Regardless, my point is that the units are not *selling* like hotcakes unless we want to expand the definition of sell to include give away. The phones are certainly decent enough to take for free.
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post #151 of 179
5/16/11 at 2:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Emperor View Post

I didn't say vendor. I said "carriers" and they are giving the phones away. Of course the iPhone is subsidized, but they aren't and have never been available(at least in the US) for free, BOGO or reduced priced in a few months. When Apple does allow, ALLOW a price drop, it is for the previous generation phone, usually with far less storage.

All of the above happen, constantly for Android phones. Usually that $299 is reduced within 45-60 days. The question to ask is why? Well, we know why for the carriers. Long, fat contracts. You think that the carriers is eating that price cut?

Please. Unlikely.

It is far more likely that they've negotiated difference price points for the Android vendors because there are so many. "Don't want to give me a cheaper price HTC? Fine, I'll bet Samsung will play ball."

Regardless, my point is that the units are not *selling* like hotcakes unless we want to expand the definition of sell to include give away. The phones are certainly decent enough to take for free.

Certainly it's possible that the manufacturer's are cutting the price to the telcoms after some period of time. But I've never seen any mention that all or even any of the BOGO deals, which I rarely see now, are in fact made possible by manufacturers cutting prices.

melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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melior diabolus quem scies

"No theatrics and no more personal attacks, just stick to the logic and tell me why I don't have any argument ~ Jragosta/2012

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post #152 of 179
5/16/11 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Neither Motorola or Samsung or HTC nor any other phone manufacturer is giving their phones away free of charge.

If the service providers see value in bundling a free or subsidized phone (the iPhone is also subsidized) in with a $3000 contract, you would have to assume they've found it worthwhile.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

Certainly it's possible that the manufacturer's are cutting the price to the telcoms after some period of time. But I've never seen any mention that all or even any of the BOGO deals, which I rarely see now, are in fact made possible by manufacturers cutting prices.

If you don't see that, you aren't looking very hard. http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/p...cialoffers.jsp is a link to Verizon, BOGO for Droid Pro. At a reduced price, by the way.

AT&T, Motorola Bravo -one cent.

Amazon: Motorola Atrix 99.99
Droid incredible one cent

Sprint - LG Optimus - free


And that is stuff at a quick glance.

Again, the question to ask yourself is would the carriers eat this? Why would they? What would I do if I were Verizon? Would I eat the cost, or would I tell the vendor to lower their price and threaten to make a competitor my featured phone getting all the commercial time if they don't?

I guess you would eat it. Verizon probably has a bit more negotiating experience.

Verizon's web site says it all. iPhone. Smartphones. Feature phones. The iPhone is its own category!
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post #153 of 179
5/16/11 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Sorry, I can't resist...

Socks

I love Steven Wright.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #154 of 179
5/16/11 at 3:08pm
Great post, fandroid user r cheap, they know nothing about luxury. Apple = Louis Vuitton or Hermes. Google = a cheap brand that copy Apple, it is just a cheap alternative for poor college nerd that want everything free wit ads lol. So what happen when a cheap brand cost more than a luxury brand? It is a fail formula. Beta OS + copycat brand + cost more than Apple = D.O.A


Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73 View Post

...compare this to the iPhone/Android phones market, but what everyone fails to mention is this.

A cell phone is, for all intents and purposes, a necessity, these days. Data Plans? No, but data plans are not so prohibitively expensive.

Google and their OEMs were smart in targeting Verizon in the US as the main carrier. Take the biggest carrier, that also happens to not have the iPhone, and introduce a viable alternative. This is the key to the early success of the Android platform.

It was an alternative platform, in an existing market, that, like iOS, was able to push the market forward.

Turn your attention to tablets. Apple introduced the iPad not as a replacement to anything. As a "tweener" product. It's not a smartphone, but it's not a laptop. It doesn't do everything, but what it does do? It does better than the alternatives.

However, what the tablet market is not? It is not a need. As I mentioned, people basically need a cell phone these days, and they need a computer. They do not need the in between product. It is an accessory. A luxury. Most people, when looking at a luxury item, don't settle. They go for the best/what they want, or the "popular" or status symbol item.

In other words, as of today, they will go with the iPad.

Until everyone "needs" a tablet, the iPad, in my opinion, will dominate. It is wrong to compare it to the smartphone market. It is more closely associated with the MP3 player market, where, just like coke and kleenex before it, iPod has become the "genericized" name referring to a product category.

"Apple sells premium products at premium prices to premium customers." Cheapskates need not apply 

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"Apple sells premium products at premium prices to premium customers." Cheapskates need not apply 

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post #155 of 179
5/16/11 at 3:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Emperor View Post

If you don't see that, you aren't looking very hard. http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/p...cialoffers.jsp is a link to Verizon, BOGO for Droid Pro. At a reduced price, by the way.

AT&T, Motorola Bravo -one cent.

Amazon: Motorola Atrix 99.99
Droid incredible one cent

Sprint - LG Optimus - free


And that is stuff at a quick glance.

Again, the question to ask yourself is would the carriers eat this? Why would they? What would I do if I were Verizon? Would I eat the cost, or would I tell the vendor to lower their price and threaten to make a competitor my featured phone getting all the commercial time if they don't?

I guess you would eat it. Verizon probably has a bit more negotiating experience.

Verizon's web site says it all. iPhone. Smartphones. Feature phones. The iPhone is its own category!

1) Free with contract is not free. Those phones do cost money and yield the vendors revenue. Even if that revenue is less than what Apple talks and their profit is negative, tt still counts as a sale.

2) Verizon separating out the iPhone is all marketing and speaks directly to how the iPhone is perceived by the consumer and its mindshare. I dont think hes saying that the iPhone isnt the most desirable or exulted device on the market, just that the other Android phones should be counted as sales even if the carrier gives them away under contact.

3) Note there are plenty of carriers outside the US that sell the iPhone for free under contract.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
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post #156 of 179
5/16/11 at 3:21pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

1) Free with contract is not free. Those phones do cost money and yield the vendors revenue. Even if that revenue is less than what Apple talks and their profit is negative, tt still counts as a sale.

2) Verizon separating out the iPhone is all marketing and speaks directly to how the iPhone is perceived by the consumer and its mindshare. I don’t think he’s saying that the iPhone isn’t the most desirable or exulted device on the market, just that the other Android phones should be counted as sales even if the carrier gives them away under contact.

3) Note there are plenty of carriers outside the US that sell the iPhone for free under contract.


1) A free phone with a contract is free phone. With a contract. A $200 phone with a contract is a $200 phone. With a contract. I never said that anyone gives you free service. I suspect that given a choice, the vendors would rather have $200 phones than free ones. A business that posts negative profit from giving away product won't be around long. As for being counted as sales, well, that's what we are talking about. "Look, I had sales of 10k units. What's your profit? Negative profit. Gave 'em away. But I gave them away like hotcakes!"

2) It was a observation and a comment. I didn't say that he said anything about the iPhone being desired. I also didn't imply such.

3) I'm sure. I heard Orange did, but I'm just talking about the US to prove what is my point which is: Giving away like hotcakes is not selling like hotcakes.
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post #157 of 179
5/16/11 at 3:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by starbird73
As I mentioned, people basically need a cell phone these days, and they need a computer. They do not need the in between product. It is an accessory. A luxury.


Quote:
Originally Posted by jj.yuan View Post

Agree very much with your analysis. It's very insightful. Thanks!

I might reanalysis your thought...

Surveys are saying not a few but many are using their computers, particularly laptops, less and less since they bought an iPad2. And as for phones, many like the ability to have their iPod, pics etc., all in one device; the iPhone4. It won't be long before your idea of luxury is completely turned around.
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post #158 of 179
5/16/11 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Emperor View Post

Giving away like hotcakes is not selling like hotcakes.

Where is pancakes house?
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post #159 of 179
5/16/11 at 4:59pm
I love my iPad 2 but I have to admit that the Xoom had an awesome UI (thanks to the guy who created the Sidekick Helio and Palm OS) but at the end of the day I want to play with tablet apps in addition to browsing the web. I saw the Playbook the other day and it surprisingly looks pretty good minus the tiny power button, and lack of apps. I use the Torch for work and it's a pain in the butt to use it for anything but getting email notifications. The only positive thing I can say about RIM is that they had lots of potential to reach the mainstream market with the first Pearl. But then they dropped the ball and didn't innovate fast enough when Apple came to the market a year later.
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post #160 of 179
5/16/11 at 5:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bartfat View Post

How about this? Even has syntax highlighting.
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/id383577124?mt=8

I bought it but I forgot that I have way too much firewall protection in place to allow access to my servers using this app while on the road using 3G. When I'm in a known wifi network it works but in that situation I always have a full Mac to work with.

In the past I have always used my MBP over 3G to VNC into my Mac at the office through which I could then ftp into my data center. I know that the Mac in the office is a potential weak point in my security but I need a back door. So yes, Textastic is nice program but I would have to relax my firewall rules to make use of it.

I suppose I can always query my DHCP IP when out and about and call the NOC and have them temporarily update my firewall rules, but that is a hassle to do more than on rare occasions. What do others people do to gain access past your firewall when on 3G?

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

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