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What's up with marijuana still being illegal in the US?

post #1 of 219
Thread Starter 
You know? This can't go on forever. Is it just because of the passivity of smokers that there hasn't been more done about it? (nudge, nudge)

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
post #2 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by giant:
<strong>You know? This can't go on forever. Is it just because of the passivity of smokers that there hasn't been more done about it?</strong><hr></blockquote>

<a href="http://norml.org" target="_blank">no</a>. and in many states they have weakened pot laws. in ny, possession of less than an ounce is punishable by up to $100 (first offense), or $250 (each offense after the first). its a citation, like a parking ticket. in some parts of nyc they dont even cite you for it (my friends and [ahem] i, have smoked jays walking along 2nd avenue). many people in law are still really fvcking stupid though.

free pot.
post #3 of 219
It's only a matter of time.
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post #4 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by thuh Freak:
<strong>

many people in law are still really fvcking stupid though.

</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah real stupid. I can't wait till they legalize it so we have not only drunk drivers but stoned ones too.
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post #5 of 219
I don't care if they legalize it (isn't going to affect me, really), but I wonder about how it would be treated/controlled in regards to driving, etc.

Would it been seen as the same or worse than drinking and driving?

They'd have to really toughen up and come down on those who caused accidents while driving high.

As long as you're home or at one location (or have a DD or whatever), I don't see it as being worse than alcohol.

But, like alcohol, it would have to be used responsibly. And, as we all very well know, alcohol is often NOT, so...

I think the stigma attached to it will probably keep it the way it is for a long, long time.

I don't do it anymore (never REALLY did much at all, to be totally honest), so I don't care one way or the other.

But I hate how stoned people act when you're not, so I'm not looking forward to trying to order a Subway sandwich or buy a lottery ticket from some dipshit who spent the afternoon blazing up and can't follow the most simple directions/questions.



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post #6 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>
Yeah real stupid. I can't wait till they legalize it so we have not only drunk drivers but stoned ones too. </strong><hr></blockquote>

studies have shown that smoking isn't as adverse to driving as alcohol. in the inner city (if i recall correctly) it had no disernable affect (i may have it backwards tho, it might be out of the city it had no affect), in one study (i think the full study is avail at norml.org).

besides, alcohol is legal, and plenty of drinkers dont drive at all. why shouldn' potheads be given the same opportunity? are you in favor of prohibition?
post #7 of 219
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>

Yeah real stupid. I can't wait till they legalize it so we have not only drunk drivers but stoned ones too. </strong><hr></blockquote>

But it's not like people don't smoke it now. In fact, a LOT of people smoke. I don't (for technical reasons with vipassana) but sometimes I really feel in the minority. And I'm talking all age ranges and social groups. I've travelled the country extensively and have observed no difference across much of the US. That's what makes it so silly. It's like America's hidden secret. I've been really shocked by how pervasive it is...

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
post #8 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by thuh Freak:
<strong>

besides, alcohol is legal, and plenty of drinkers dont drive at all. why shouldn' potheads be given the same opportunity? are you in favor of prohibition?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Drinking and Driving is a MAJOR problem. Thousands of countless deaths every year and 1 in 4 drivers after midnight are drunk. We don't need just as many pot smokers driving. No, I'm not for prohibition, I just don't want double the problems that we already have with alcohol.
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post #9 of 219
[quote]1 in 4 drivers after midnight are drunk<hr></blockquote>

where exactly did you get that statistic?
post #10 of 219
it's not "america's hidden secret" it's "the worlds hidden secret".

in switzerland they are trying to legalize it because there are to many people smoking weed - but it is not legal 'till today.
the stories they (mj-banners) come up with are realy funny.

situation now. you can smoke it - if you have it.
but if you have to much you are a drug dealer and can go to jail if the amount is big.
everytime the pigs got nothing to do - they raid a hemp-shop or two (shops selling tea and stuff but if you ask you get pot) but thats all.


the future will show us some very good effects of marie jane.
but 'till it isn't "a drug" anymore there is no way to make proper laws for it.

it's a shame.
peve

and by the way...
no. english is not my native language.
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peve

and by the way...
no. english is not my native language.
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post #11 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>

Drinking and Driving is a MAJOR problem. Thousands of countless deaths every year and 1 in 4 drivers after midnight are drunk. We don't need just as many pot smokers driving. No, I'm not for prohibition, I just don't want double the problems that we already have with alcohol.</strong><hr></blockquote>

well, i can assure you that legalizing pot will not double the inibriated driving problems. <a href="http://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3383" target="_blank">*link*</a> decriminalizing it does not increase the amount of use. infact, keeping it illegal makes it more provocative to some users, and seems to directly correllate with a larger userbase. so, if pot is legalized, there might even be a drop in driving accidents related to intoxication.
post #12 of 219
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by peve:
<strong>it's not "america's hidden secret" it's "the worlds hidden secret".
</strong><hr></blockquote>

I just say America because that's where my home base is, that's where I have political input and that's what I started this thread about. It's also not criminalized all over the world.
post #13 of 219
Thread Starter 
Also, according to <a href="http://www.bop.gov/fact0598.html#Offense" target="_blank">the BOP site</a> drug offenders account for more than half of the federal prison population. And how many other prisoners commited crimes related to drugs, though not necessarily a drug offense.


In terms of driving, more studies should be done to find out the exact effects and then legislate accordingly. If found to be similar to alcohol, it should be treated the same way. But for this to be the sole reason for keeping the current laws is a grave mistake. Either way, people will be driving on it, and if it were legalized we could run responsibility campaigns w/out hinderance from groups saying said campaign is just a way to condone breaking the law. Plus, I think there is little question that it in no way impairs as much as alcohol.
post #14 of 219
I'll be laughing my head off in 50 years if someone discovers a link between marijuana and some horrible diseases.

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
post #15 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Brad:
<strong>I'll be laughing my head off in 50 years if someone discovers a link between marijuana and some horrible diseases.

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

it's called cancer.
post #16 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Brad:
<strong>I'll be laughing my head off in 50 years if someone discovers a link between marijuana and some horrible diseases.

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

marijuana is being used for hunderds of years. no horrible diseases connected 'till now. in fact marijuana is being discovered as a cure more and more.

i guess in 50 years people are gonna laugh at us for banning it.
peve

and by the way...
no. english is not my native language.
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peve

and by the way...
no. english is not my native language.
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post #17 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Brad:
<strong>I'll be laughing my head off in 50 years if someone discovers a link between marijuana and some horrible diseases.

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" /> </strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, my Mom is a doctor, and the worst lung cancer cases she's ever seen were in people that had been heavy pot smokers. But I still think it should be decriminalized/legalized. They will definitely need to do more studies on the effects on driving as well as health effects so they can do a good job of creating laws and regulations with regard to it's use.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, even if it is wrong.
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post #18 of 219
Thread Starter 
Not to say info on the web is right, but here's some food for thought...

<a href="http://my.webmd.com/content/article/1728.57309" target="_blank">pro</a>

<a href="http://www.mapinc.org/drugnews/v01.n1045.a03.html" target="_blank">pro</a>

<a href="http://www.drugabuse.gov/MedAdv/00/NR6-20.html" target="_blank">con</a>

<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/141891.stm" target="_blank">con</a>

Reminds me of the debate about whether circumcision prevents AIDS. You may laugh, but I recently had to get a lot of articles for someone researching it here @ Northwestern. There is very, very compelling evidence from many, many valid studies that definitively proves each side. Situations like that show that even the most objective of studies sometimes will not yield the answer.


PS

Perhaps if it was legalized, low-tar strains could be developed...

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
post #19 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by alcimedes:
<strong>

where exactly did you get that statistic?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Sorry its 1 in 7. I got that confused with being 4x as likely to be involved in an alcohol related accident at night. I got both of these statistcs from MADD.
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post #20 of 219
Quote:
Originally posted by pscates:
<strong>I don't care if they legalize it (isn't going to affect me, really), but I wonder about how it would be treated/controlled in regards to driving, etc.
</strong><hr></blockquote>

How the hell can it NOT affect you? Do you know what this would do to already rising health-care costs? I must find the Newsweek issue that examined the folly of legalizing marijuana.
[/QB]
post #21 of 219
Thread Starter 
Please do. Although we all know about newsweek. I'll look in the economist tonight. They are big supporters of legalization (remember the big cover story last year? or was it winter?), and also the most highly regarded news magazine.

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: giant ]</p>
post #22 of 219
Thread Starter 
Ah, yes. The July 28th, 2001 Economist devoted much of an issue to it. Many articles from all angles about the aspects, from personal and medical, to international and business. Go to your local library and check it out, or you can buy it online @ <a href="http://www.economist.com" target="_blank">the economist homepage</a>
post #23 of 219
The private-sector of the jail industry reap huge sums from pot remaining illegal. There are over 400,000 Americans in the penal system at any one time as a result of pot offenses. If it costs $30,000 per annum per inmate, multiply that by 400,000 and that gives you the handsome sum of $12 billion per year guaranteed annual income from the American taxpayer. The two largest corporations benefitting from this windfall are Wackenhut Security and the Correction Corporation of America (CCA). Both companies recently had a Wall St "must buy" rating on their stock.

A number of other industries are vehemently against the relaxing of the pot laws. It is illegal for US farmers to grow industrial hemp, the most versatile cash crop there is. It requires no pesticides, herbicides, fungicides, artificial fertilizers etc requires only minimal water and thrives in places where little or nothing else will grow. Industrial hemp can be used for paper, clothing, food, etc, and is a great source of biomass energy. It has been estimated that just 6% of the unused land area in the western half of the US used in industrial hemp agriculture would supply enough biomass methanol to run all of America's vehicles and fossil fuel powerstations, if converted accordingly to run on methanol. Imagine....not having to rely on imported middle eastern oil! Where would bin Laden and all those Islamic terror organizations as well as those monarchies and brutal dictatorships get all their $$$$$$$US Billions from?

Legalizing marijuana and industrial hemp will probably happen in time...but the anti-legalization lobby is not only extremely powerful (oil, prisons, lumber etc etc) but are also extremely closely connected to this current administration (and the next several probably in the future). Bush and company are more likely to invite Saddam Hussein for tea and cookies than decriminalize pot or industrial hemp.

The other thing which will prevent any quick change on the legal front is tradition and ignorance. Many people still lump cannabis, heroin and speed as being equally dangerous or addictive. Politicians are scared sh1tless about being seen as going "soft on drugs", and it seems that we now prefer to lock up terminally patients and their care givers for prescribing, supplying or using medical marijuana as well. Also...legalization probably won't suddenly create a whole bunch of new potsmokers. Maybe some kids will even quit if the illicit 'cool factor' didn't apply?

Aren't we clever eh?
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post #24 of 219
leagalize it!!!


....i'm not sure what you peopel think who think it is bad to have it legalized, but its not like dazed and confused where when you smoke you act like that. maybe its different for othres but i've never been out of control and not able to function nearly as bad as alcohol. It also, i belive, not be related to cancer nearly as much as cigs. Plus if everyone uses a vaporizer then you don't actually smoke it its just the effect...no health risks, minimal lack of loss of control and no sharp glass bottles to fight with (also i dont know too many people that get angry or abusive who smoke)

i feel strongly about this...make this legal and cigz or alchy illegal...alot of it is just because the US is stubborn...they have such strict laws about it

[ 08-07-2002: Message edited by: ast3r3x ]</p>
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post #25 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>


Sorry its 1 in 7. I got that confused with being 4x as likely to be involved in an alcohol related accident at night. I got both of these statistcs from MADD.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's a real unbiased source.

 

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post #26 of 219
I would imagine it's still illegal because people would rather sit around complaining than do anything about the situation. I personally think pot's illegality and the drug war in general have been damaging and dangerous policies of my era, have I done anything about it, nope.

[quote] in some parts of nyc they dont even cite you for it (my friends and [ahem] i, have smoked jays walking along 2nd avenue). many people in law are still really fvcking stupid though. <hr></blockquote>

A favorite tactic of that great civil libertarian Rudy Giuliani was to have the police arrest people for smoking pot and have them spend a good 24 hours in jail before they could see a judge and have the charges dismissed.
post #27 of 219
Legalizing Marijuana would allow for a big break through in fuel, fibers, paper, medicine, etc. So for those reasons say "go ahead and legaglize it". But also, I think that at least decriminalizing it would help lower violent crime rates, people trying to get money to pay high prices for a substance that wouldn't be so expensive if it wasn't illegal. I really don't care about getting to smoke pot without the looming fear of the law because I don't really care about pot, I have never found much interest in a drug that makes you laugh at everything before you fall asleep 30 minutes later. I have smoked pot, I have plenty of friends that smoke, I don't care about how easy it would/wouldn't be to get it.

And about the driving thing, a lot of people don't care or even think about driving stoned. I wish they wouldn't but they do. I have seen people that are of legal age to drink not even take one sip because they have to drive, but instead smoke themselves stupid thinking that it is fine to drive completely stoned.
post #28 of 219
Drugs are bad. Doesn't anyone know that?

We need to stop incarcerating drug users and start rehabilitating them. Incarcerate the the "people" who put drugs on the street though. The only ****ing reason nicotine is legal is because of its history as America's cash-crop. Hell, we became a nation almost on the strength of tobacco itself. I have no respect for pot-heads, druggies, and smokers.
post #29 of 219
You're right, it's always better to fix a problem. But for some reason we've grown used to putting the problem on hold, and letting tax money go towards putting potheads in jail, over and over and over and over and over................
post #30 of 219
[quote]I have no respect for pot-heads, druggies, and smokers.<hr></blockquote>

Any thread on drugs is off-kelter without discussing ALCOHOL. Alcohol is an addictive drug, a depressant of the central nervous system. Alcohol *abuse* is the 2nd biggest killer of Americans re. drugs (tobacco being #1)...also it is the biggest cause of crime, death on the roads and domestic violence. Just because it is legal doesn't mean to say that alcohol use is any more 'moral' or otherwise 'OK' than, say, pot smoking......and no I *do* occasionally enjoy a beer or a glass of wine...and I don't smoke anything. I have no ax to grind here.
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post #31 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Willoughby:
<strong>

Yeah real stupid. I can't wait till they legalize it so we have not only drunk drivers but stoned ones too. </strong><hr></blockquote>

In that case I would suggest we make stupidity illegal.

[ 08-08-2002: Message edited by: macfenian ]</p>
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post #32 of 219
How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.

Where does it end?
post #33 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.

Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>

<img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />

*gives Outsider a big 'ole hug*
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post #34 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.

Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>

well, the difference, as i see it, is that when i smoke pot it has little or no effect on other people. if i killed someone, they would be murdered. i think people should have complete and total freedom over what they do to themselves, insomuch as it doesn't affect others. I wouldn't be opposed to some regulation, like no-smoking in some public places (similar to the cig-smokers now). pot may increase my chances of cancer, but thats a risk that i am willing to take [especially since i tend to use a bubbler, or eat it].
post #35 of 219
Thread Starter 
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>How about we make murder legal too? I mean, tons of people do it anyway despite it being illegal. I think if someone kills your wife, you should be able to hunt them down and cut their throat.

Where does it end?</strong><hr></blockquote>

An analogy like this could only come from someone on drugs.
post #36 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by thuh Freak:
<strong>

well, the difference, as i see it, is that when i smoke pot it has little or no effect on other people. if i killed someone, they would be murdered. i think people should have complete and total freedom over what they do to themselves, insomuch as it doesn't affect others. I wouldn't be opposed to some regulation, like no-smoking in some public places (similar to the cig-smokers now). pot may increase my chances of cancer, but thats a risk that i am willing to take [especially since i tend to use a bubbler, or eat it].</strong><hr></blockquote>

Here's the thing. Alcohol abuse will kill others. You get drunk, get behind the wheel and you're asking for trouble. That is why there are laws to protect people that prohibit the operation of any vehicle under the influence of alcohol. Stoned people will not drive with all their faculties either. The same restrictions should apply. You can't walk around town drunk. You get picked up. You can't walk around with a bottle of Jack Daniels in public. If pot is legalized all these restrictions (and possibly more) should apply also. Maybe you can smoke a bowl at a bar like you can get drunk there but don't take it out on the street.

If it gets legalized, put heavy restrictions on it is all I say. Hell, killing is even legal (if justified).
post #37 of 219
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>
Here's the thing. Alcohol abuse will kill others. You get drunk, get behind the wheel and you're asking for trouble. That is why there are laws to protect people that prohibit the operation of any vehicle under the influence of alcohol. Stoned people will not drive with all their faculties either. The same restrictions should apply. You can't walk around town drunk. You get picked up. You can't walk around with a bottle of Jack Daniels in public. If pot is legalized all these restrictions (and possibly more) should apply also. Maybe you can smoke a bowl at a bar like you can get drunk there but don't take it out on the street.

If it gets legalized, put heavy restrictions on it is all I say. Hell, killing is even legal (if justified).</strong><hr></blockquote>

i agree that there should be some restrictions. obviously if marij is legalized people should be warned that if they do it, they will be temporarily impaired. they could require suppliers to mention it in ads and/or on packaging like they do with alcohol. i am not against regulation of pot usage, but i think respobsible people should be given the oppportunity to use it responsibly without johnny lawman coming after them. i don't think that heavier restrictions than alcohol or tobacco should be used though. many studies have shown that the effects of pot on drivers aren't as bad as the effects of alcohol. and pot tends to make a person more mellow and not routy, as alcohol can often do. i don't see why i shouldn't be allowed to be stoned walking down the street. i'm less likely to hurt or even bother someone when i am high.
post #38 of 219
I'll start by saying I am not against decriminilization/legalization, and I am not a smoker at the moment.. I have smoked it a lot, and been a part of that group, but for the last few months, I've been home from school, and I haven't felt the desire to smoke weed.. I might in the future, but I'm not jonesing for it..

When we discuss marijuana laws, and laws for all drugs in general (especially alcohol too), which is really what we are doing, we should look at why our culture has deemed some drugs "dangerous" and criminalized them, and why some are considered socially acceptable.. Marijuana has been used for centuries, all across the world, except really in countries that weren't a natural home for the plant. (its hard to imagine Scottish Highlanders blazing a spliff, but who knows).. Alcohol has been the drug of choice for European cultures.. And when North America was growing into a world power, the European folks decided that to keep a little control over Hispanics and African Americans, they would make their drug of choice illegal.. Many people went to jail, and to this day there are thousands of people in jail on marijuana related charges.. I am too lazy to find out the specifics, but I'd bet a lot of those people are not dangerous to society..

If you looked you could find plenty of propoganda on both sides of this arguement (Sigmund Freud wrote many essays on the psychological powers of cocaine, and it was widely used in the 19th century), however, if you look beyond all the "reasons" why things are the way they are, then you come to a more fundamental question.. --Why are some cultures still allowed to exert control over others?-- Marijuana is illegal for many reasons, and they have nothing to do with "high drivers" or "shady drug dealers" or "international marijuana cartels".. It comes down to the people entrenched in power deciding the fate of many..

When the judicial and political figures in the United States can let go of this leash, and free all the people in jail, and let people smoke in peace, then the world will follow, and it won't be a bad thing.. Less control is never a bad thing..
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post #39 of 219
Thread Starter 
A good history of Marijuana in the US was the film grass, reviewed <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/library/film/053100grass%2Dfilm%2Dreview.html" target="_blank">here.</a>
post #40 of 219
[quote]Drugs are bad. Doesn't anyone know that?<hr></blockquote>

Which drugs are 'bad', and which ones are 'good'? And why?

If your definition of "bad" is linked to individual and public health risks, or death rates from use/abuse then the "worst ones" (alcohol, tobacco and prescription drugs) are legal!

What are you trying to say here?
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