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May 21st. Still here. - Page 5

post #161 of 338
5/25/11 at 10:05am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Define deity. If you can't provide a falsifiable definition, you can't discover whatever nonsense thing you talk about.

Why does it have to be nonsense? You are inserting personal bias into your question.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #162 of 338
5/25/11 at 10:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Define deity. If you can't provide a falsifiable definition, you can't discover whatever nonsense thing you talk about.

The issue of falsifiability pertains to physical scientific concepts. This science deals with knowledge and issues of the natural world. This is one realm of knowledge but not the only one. Issues pertaining to God and spirituality are in a different realm...the supernatural realm.

You're applying a set of rules and constraints that are applicable in one area to a completely different area.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #163 of 338
5/25/11 at 10:31am
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

The issue of falsifiability pertains to physical scientific concepts. This science deals with knowledge and issues of the natural world. This is one realm of knowledge but not the only one. Issues pertaining to God and spirituality are in a different realm...the supernatural realm.

You're applying a set of rules and constraints that are applicable in one area to a completely different area.

I would also point out that the Wikipedia definition of deity also includes the word "preternatural".

The Wikipedia definition of preternatural is:

"that which appears outside or beyond (Latin præter) the natural. In contrast to the supernatural, preternatural phenomena are presumed to have rational explanations as yet unknown."

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #164 of 338
5/25/11 at 11:48am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Why do you care what MJ believes or what would shake his faith? How is that anything that would even interest you specifically without having some other agenda?

I asked the question because it is relevant to the conversation about whether people who believe like the May 21st folks did could be dissuaded from their beliefs.

The supposition is that people who believe like they did couldn't be dissuaded. MJ1970 rejects such a notion. Obviously, on the whole, everything is a shade of gray, and the vast majority of people don't go these extremes or don't think about such things.

MJ1970's rejection of the supposition made me curious whether anything would shake his faith in Christianity or if anything would get him/her to reject Christianity.

On the subject of "agendas", there isn't one other than entertainment or time-wasting. All positions have been discussed before. There will be nothing new. There will be nothing learned from the participants. It's well trodden ground. These conversations have been repeated since recorded history and likely before. These conversations have already occurred multiple times for the participants in this thread.
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post #165 of 338
5/25/11 at 11:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

I asked the question because it is relevant to the conversation about whether people who believe like the May 21st folks did could be dissuaded from their beliefs.

The supposition is that people who believe like they did couldn't be dissuaded. MJ1970 rejects such a notion.

To be more precise I reject the general assertion, but agree that in specific cases dissuasion would be very difficult, even impossible. And as I recall your questioning, I was taking it in the more general sense.

Our discussion began with this post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by shrike

Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970

What gives me this faith? Well, after a time of thinking about, contemplating, considering the claims of the Bible and the alternatives, etc. I've come to accept what the Bible says about God and His son Jesus Christ...and this leads me to take on faith that what is said about him returning at some point in the future on faith. It doesn't mean I have it all clearly understood and figured out...and there are things that I struggle with understanding all the time. I even wrestle with doubt at times. I don't assume I know everything there is to know about all of that.

Once you've accepted these beliefs, there's basically no point to argumentum anymore, other than perhaps for entertainment. Why? You have ceased to become rationale about it. Sounds insulting, but that is the definition of "faith", to believe something beyond reason, to believe something without proof.

Once someone gets there, it's basically not possible for that someone to pull back. The Harold Camping, May 21st believers generally aren't going to be stepping off the precipice of their beliefs. The vast majority will rationalize and retrofit their beliefs, with some being even more fervent than before. Some will actually come to their senses, but I do not expect a lot. Camping will continue to find an audience. He will rationalize why he was wrong and continue apace.

How would you have convinced Camping that he was wrong? He's heard everything before. He was wrong before in 1994! How would you have convinced his followers that they were making a mistake? Those millions of dollars could have been donated to charity and their collective efforts could have gone to building homes for the poor, caring for the sick, funded medical research, environment, or other causes.

I don't actually have problem with the Harold Camping followers. Life should be filled with glorious variety. They did what they felt was right and didn't try to harm anyone. Overall, a harmless thing. There does come times where it is harmful. That's when the problems arise.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #166 of 338
5/25/11 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shrike View Post

I asked the question because it is relevant to the conversation about whether people who believe like the May 21st folks did could be dissuaded from their beliefs.

The supposition is that people who believe like they did couldn't be dissuaded. MJ1970 rejects such a notion. Obviously, on the whole, everything is a shade of gray, and the vast majority of people don't go these extremes or don't think about such things.

MJ1970's rejection of the supposition made me curious whether anything would shake his faith in Christianity or if anything would get him/her to reject Christianity.

On the subject of "agendas", there isn't one other than entertainment or time-wasting. All positions have been discussed before. There will be nothing new. There will be nothing learned from the participants. It's well trodden ground. These conversations have been repeated since recorded history and likely before. These conversations have already occurred multiple times for the participants in this thread.

Why would their entire faith in Christianity have to be shaken? You are asking that someone reject their entire religious belief system over a false prophet?
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #167 of 338
5/25/11 at 2:18pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Wikipedia defines deity as:

"a recognized preternatural or supernatural immortal being, who may be thought of as holy, divine, or sacred, held in high regard, and respected by believers, often religiously referred to as a god."

So, in light of that definition, can you answer my question?

No, because that definition leaves other things undefined. What does it mean to be supernatural?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #168 of 338
5/25/11 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, because that definition leaves other things undefined. What does it mean to be supernatural?

Looked here, found no definition, but an acceptance of the word supernatural as being just what it is. So I looked a little more.

Found that Wikipedia Has this definition.

Basically "anything above or beyond what one holds to be natural or exists outside natural law and the observable universe."
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #169 of 338
5/25/11 at 2:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

No, because that definition leaves other things undefined. What does it mean to be supernatural?

http://tinyurl.com/3sf9j48

Really, now BR. If you don't want to answer my question just say so or ignore me.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #170 of 338
5/25/11 at 2:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

http://tinyurl.com/3sf9j48

Really, now BR. If you don't want to answer my question just say so or ignore me.

I like my answer better.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #171 of 338
5/25/11 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

I like my answer better.

I do, too.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #172 of 338
5/25/11 at 3:34pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

Looked here, found no definition, but an acceptance of the word supernatural as being just what it is. So I looked a little more.

Found that Wikipedia Has this definition.

Basically "anything above or beyond what one holds to be natural or exists outside natural law and the observable universe."

Right...BUT WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? What does it mean to exist outside the observable universe?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #173 of 338
5/25/11 at 3:38pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

http://tinyurl.com/3sf9j48

Really, now BR. If you don't want to answer my question just say so or ignore me.

Jazz, I can't answer the question unless you actually tell me what it means to exist outside the universe. If you can't find some way to demonstrably show how something could exist outside the universe, what it even means to exist not in our universe, and even what not in our universe means in the first place...well, we don't have a true definition of your god.

I see words on a page. They make grammatical sense. They mean nothing right now.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. You might as well have just told me that.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #174 of 338
5/25/11 at 3:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Right, but there's no evidence for any divine intervention anywhere. It's the unexplained attributed to a deity. I don't care how you want to spin it, you know that's what it is.

The issue that neither of you can win this argument. Noah cannot scientifically prove a miracle or an answered prayer, and you cannot disprove it. You can only speculate (while insulting his intelligence, apparently). You have a right to view every event as random and/or coincidental. Many people simply disagree.
To save time, assume I know everything.
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To save time, assume I know everything.
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post #175 of 338
5/25/11 at 3:47pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

The issue that neither of you can win this argument. Noah cannot scientifically prove a miracle or an answered prayer, and you cannot disprove it. You can only speculate (while insulting his intelligence, apparently). You have a right to view every event as random and/or coincidental. Many people simply disagree.

It's not my job to disprove it. He makes a claim a god exists. I say define it and prove it. If he can, sweet. If he can't, my default nonbelief status doesn't change. Do you expect to have to disprove any wild assertion someone makes to you? That isn't your job, either.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #176 of 338
5/25/11 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Jazz, I can't answer the question unless you actually tell me what it means to exist outside the universe. If you can't find some way to demonstrably show how something could exist outside the universe, what it even means to exist not in our universe, and even what not in our universe means in the first place...well, we don't have a true definition of your god.

I see words on a page. They make grammatical sense. They mean nothing right now.

Colorless green ideas sleep furiously. You might as well have just told me that.

You can't see past words on a page. Got it.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #177 of 338
5/25/11 at 3:49pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

You can't see past words on a page. Got it.

Has nothing to do with that. You have provided me words and phrases saying something exists outside the universe. WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? If you can't answer that, then maybe that's a problem on your end and not mine. Maybe that's a hole in your dogma, not my worldview.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #178 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:08pm
Where, exactly, did it say that deity exists outside the universe?

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #179 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:10pm
For every terminal cancer patient who received prayer and survived, ten received prayer and died anyway. For every terminal cancer patient who received prayer and survived, there was a cancer patient somewhere else who didn't receive prayer and still survived.

Prayer is not a reliable method for treatment or cure. And when relied upon in lieu of other treatment, it can actually cause death (like my grandmother).
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post #180 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:42pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

Where, exactly, did it say that deity exists outside the universe?

When you said it was supernatural.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #181 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:44pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

For every terminal cancer patient who received prayer and survived, ten received prayer and died anyway. For every terminal cancer patient who received prayer and survived, there was a cancer patient somewhere else who didn't receive prayer and still survived.

Prayer is not a reliable method for treatment or cure. And when relied upon in lieu of other treatment, it can actually cause death (like my grandmother).

Exactly. Faith healing in lieu of actual medical treatment is criminal. Thankfully, some states are finally coming around to that fact. Good job, Oregon.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/religio...htm?csp=34news

I'm sorry for the way you lost your grandma, tonton.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #182 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:48pm
I find it rather amusing that some folks do not have anywhere near the level of skepticism, derision and mockery for the predictions contained in this as they do about a guy predicting the end of the world. In fact, quite the opposite, we often have apologetics for the other predictions from the faithful.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #183 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:51pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

When you said it was supernatural.

I didn't say it was supernatural. Wikipedia did.

Wikipedia also said it was preternatural.

Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem.

(I prefer the tumult of liberty to the quiet of servitude.)

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post #184 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:55pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by jazzguru View Post

I didn't say it was supernatural. Wikipedia did.

Wikipedia also said it was preternatural.

How do you define your god?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #185 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

When you said it was supernatural.

It said, and I repeat: "anything above or beyond what one holds to be natural or exists outside natural law and the observable universe."

If something exists outside of something, then it is not bound by that thing. Therefore it does not follow the rules of that thing.

If G-d is Supernatural, He is not observable with human methods. He is not bound by natural law. He is not measurable by human means. He is not truly quantifiable in any real sense that can be fully understood since our understanding is limited to what we know that can be observed.

If you disagree with my definition, please feel free to provide your own, makes conversations much more, um, conversant...
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #186 of 338
5/25/11 at 4:57pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
So if your god is not observable, quantifiable, or measurable, how do you know it even exists?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #187 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So if your god is not observable, quantifiable, or measurable, how do you know it even exists?

He doesn't know...that's why it's called faith.

It's like:

- We don't know that the wide variety of plant and animal life evolved through random mutation and naturalistic survival selection mechanisms...some just take this on faith.

It's like:

- We don't know that Global Warming/Climate Change will lead to massive human death and suffering...some just take this on faith.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #188 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

For every terminal cancer patient who received prayer and survived, ten received prayer and died anyway. For every terminal cancer patient who received prayer and survived, there was a cancer patient somewhere else who didn't receive prayer and still survived.

Prayer is not a reliable method for treatment or cure. And when relied upon in lieu of other treatment, it can actually cause death (like my grandmother).

I don't know if the numbers quoted here are true or not as they are not really verifiable. I will not, however, disagree with your entire thought. Prayer does change things, and it does lead to miracles. I do agree that those who simply pray and do nothing more are not correct in their actions. G-d will respond in His time, and sometimes the answer is no. People should see a doctor if they are ill.

I am sorry to hear of your Grandmothers death as well.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #189 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:09pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

He doesn't know...that's why it's called faith.

It's like:

- We don't know that the wide variety of plant and animal life evolved through random mutation and naturalistic survival selection mechanisms...some just take this on faith.

It's like:

- We don't know that Global Warming/Climate Change will lead to massive human death and suffering...some just take this on faith.

Nay on your two examples. There's actual evidence there to be collected. You may disagree with the conclusion based on the evidence, but there is actual data.

Show me god data. And if you can't, why choose to believe in a god? And why your god over the thousands of others? If there's no god data, what compels you to one over the other? Or any at all?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #190 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

So if your god is not observable, quantifiable, or measurable, how do you know it even exists?

The same way I know you exist. I have never seen you, measured you, met you in person, nothing. I don't know if you are a male for sure or if you are not some computer AI. I don't know if you are where you claim to be, how old you claim to be, or even if you believe what you claim to believe and are not simply trolling for your own enjoyment. I take it on faith. Similar concept. I have interactions with you that I understand as such. It is the same with G-d. I don't send electronic messages, but I do get responses to my questions in ways that are clear to me.
NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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NoahJ
"It is unwise to be too sure of one's own wisdom. It is healthy to be reminded that the strongest might weaken and the wisest might err." - Mahatma Gandhi
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post #191 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Nay on your two examples. There's actual evidence there to be collected. You may disagree with the conclusion based on the evidence, but there is actual data.

There is evidence that is interpreted in a certain way, but it is a fact that what I said must be taken on faith.

P.S. I'll bet Evolution isn't falsifiable either...but it, unlike God, claims to be scientific.

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post #192 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:15pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoahJ View Post

The same way I know you exist.

But there is evidence of me existing. And the claim that I am a human rather than a machine or a pixie sprinkling dust onto a magical leaf keyboard is really not all that extraordinary.

Quote:
I have never seen you, measured you, met you in person, nothing. I don't know if you are a male for sure or if you are not some computer AI.

The standard of evidence to decide that I am a human is nowhere near what would be required to make such fantastical claims that there exists a magical being that cannot be observed, measured, or quantified yet somehow does interact with this universe leaving no evidence and promising eternal life after death.

Quote:
I don't know if you are where you claim to be, how old you claim to be, or even if you believe what you claim to believe and are not simply trolling for your own enjoyment. I take it on faith.

Not faith. Go back to the definitions thread. You have experience and enough circumstantial evidence to make a very reasonable assumption about a very mundane claim. You trust that I am a human and not an AI.

Quote:
Similar concept.

Nope.

Quote:
I have interactions with you that I understand as such. It is the same with G-d. I don't send electronic messages, but I do get responses to my questions in ways that are clear to me.

How do you get these responses? Can they be independently verified?

Noah, you're a good guy and I know this kind of introspection is difficult, but are you 100% sure that it couldn't possibly be a combination of wishful thinking and confirmation bias?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #193 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:16pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

There is evidence that is interpreted in a certain way, but it is a fact that what I said must be taken on faith.

P.S. I'll bet Evolution isn't falsifiable either...but it, unlike God, claims to be scientific.

Endogenous Retroviruses. Falsifiable test that evolution passed with flying colors. Do some fucking reading and stop feeding me this bullshit. And please stop misusing the word faith.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #194 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:17pm
You know what else just occurred to me?!?!

The similarity of this Camping guy and his predictions to the numerous and repeated (and often specific) predictions of global/human doom as a result of our environmental sins.

Wow.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #195 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Endogenous Retroviruses. Falsifiable test that evolution passed with flying colors. Do some fucking reading and stop feeding me this bullshit. And please stop misusing the word faith.

What would falsify Evolution. Tell us precisely what observation, if made, would disprove the Theory of Evolution?

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

And please stop misusing the word faith.

I'm using it correctly.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #196 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:25pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
It will be hard for any one thing to knock down the entire mountain of evidence that exists for evolution. However, I already gave you one such falsifiable test that evolution passed with flying colors. Apparently you don't give enough of a shit to learn something new.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #197 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

It will be hard for any one thing to knock down the entire mountain of evidence that exists for evolution. However, I already gave you one such falsifiable test that evolution passed with flying colors. Apparently you don't give enough of a shit to learn something new.

I'm very open to learning something new. You seem to misunderstand the concept of falsification.

I will ask again: What observation or evidence/fact, if discovered, would falsify Evolution or any aspect of it?

Perhaps you don't understand this, but...Presenting an example where the theory hasn't been falsified doesn't answer this question.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #198 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:33pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
This is part of the game you play. You demand the tit but never give the tat. Here I go falling for it again. But fine.

Quote:
Evolutionary Theory Can Be Falsified
Falsification of evolution as common descent would be complicated because of the vast amount of supporting evidence. Evolution rests upon a general and widespread pattern of evidence from many different fields, so a similar pattern of contradictory evidence is needed to falsify it. Isolated anomalies might force modifications, but no more. If we found a general pattern of fossils in rocks dated to different ages than expected, that would be a problem for evolution. If our understanding of physics and chemistry changed significantly, causing us to find that the earth is quite young, that would falsify evolution.

http://atheism.about.com/od/evolutio...ceCriteria.htm

Now, be a good little seeker of knowledge and actually learn something new. Go read up on endogenous retroviruses and what they mean for our common primate ancestors.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
post #199 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

This is part of the game you play. You demand the tit but never give the tat. Here I go falling for it again. But fine.



http://atheism.about.com/od/evolutio...ceCriteria.htm

Now, be a good little seeker of knowledge and actually learn something new. Go read up on endogenous retroviruses and what they mean for our common primate ancestors.

Wow. That sure looks like a political answer to a question. One which is basically saying no it can't be...or we won't let it be.

Oh well...been great chatting with you BR.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #200 of 338
5/25/11 at 5:39pm
Thread Starter 
  • BR
  • Justified Arrogance
Or....it reflects that there is so much fucking evidence that all points to evolution that it would take a shit ton of stuff to contradict the whole thing. Certain parts may be found to be flawed and adjusted. That's still very much up for debate in scientific communities. The precise balance between natural selection and mutation is still unknown. But it is safe to say that through those mechanisms, evolution occurs. And we have the evidence to back that shit up.

Where's your pile of evidence for your magical sky daddy?

And it figures you won't bother to look up those endogenous retroviruses.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply
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