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Largan rumored to supply 8MP camera for Apple's next iPhone in Q3 2011

post #1 of 36
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Providing more evidence that the next-generation iPhone will include an improved 8-megapixel camera, a new report says Taiwan's Largan Precision is expected to supply the necessary components.

Industry sources in Taiwan reportedly told DigiTimes that Largan could receive "possible orders" from Apple in the third quarter of 2011. That would align with rumors that Apple will not release its next iPhone until the end of the company's 2011 fiscal year, which concludes in late September.

According to the report, most of Largan's current business comes from selling 5-megapixel lenses, while 8-megapixel camera modules represent just 10 percent of the company's business. But that percentage could change drastically if the company does secure orders from Apple for its so-called "iPhone 5."

Largan already supplies 5-megapixel lenses for the iPhone 4, and last year it was said that the company was selected as the sole supplier of lenses for the iPad 2. The iPad 2 was released in March with a forward-facing camera, as well as a rear-facing one.

Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo with Concord Securities told AppleInsider in September that the next iPhone will feature "slight modifications" from its predecessor, including a new 8-megapixel rear camera. Other reports have suggested the next-generation iPhone will include both CDMA and GSM radios, making it a world phone compatible with both the AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S.



Picture quality on the new iPhone is also expected to be improved with a separate component for an improved LED flash. Various reports, including one earlier Tuesday, have suggested the flash will be moved farther from the camera lens to reduce red eye.
post #2 of 36
To me, this is only logical. If this is the "spec bump" upgrade we've all been led to believe, 8MP camera has to be on the checklist. I for one believe that iPhone 5 (or whatever its name will be) will have the A5, 8MP camera, maybe a 1.3 or 2 MP on the front for FaceTime HD, and longer battery life. The same form factor, same colors, etc. I highly doubt Apple completely redesigned the entire body of the iPhone just to use that new redesign for one year. Heck, they used the original design for 3 years, simply swapping out metal for plastic on the back.
post #3 of 36
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Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

heck, they used the original design for 3 years, simply swapping out metal for plastic on the back.

HARDLY.

(lowercase letters to get around the caps barrier)

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post #4 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

... secure orders from Apple for its so-called "iPhone 5."....

A bit picky perhaps, but ... you are using this phrase wrong.

Apple has actually not called the next iPhone the "iPhone 5." At least not yet.
So it's not really "Apple's so-called" anything yet.
post #5 of 36
You are arguing semantics.

The writer is just talking about the purported fifth generation handset. No one knows what Apple will call it, so any title is valid including "iPhone 5" or "Cash Cow 5."
post #6 of 36
Is an 8 MP camera that astounding? I am very happy with the picture quality of the iPhone 4's 5 MP camera. I don't see a huge leap forward or enough of a selling point for me to upgrade early...
post #7 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

You are arguing semantics.

The writer is just talking about the purported fifth generation handset. No one knows what Apple will call it, so any title is valid including "iPhone 5" or "Cash Cow 5."

Also, it IS so-called, just not so-called by Apple.
post #8 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

HARDLY.

so true... the 1st gen iPhone was very different from the 3G. it had a better look and feel. the 3G/3Gs felt cheap to me. the iPhone 4 on the other hand... is a work of art.
post #9 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Is an 8 MP camera that astounding? I am very happy with the picture quality of the iPhone 4's 5 MP camera. I don't see a huge leap forward or enough of a selling point for me to upgrade early...

After looking at the pic, it's not the resolution of the new camera that strikes me, it's the lack of the wide edge the previous one had. This could mean that they are planning to shrink the part of the glass above the screen so the camera needs to be closer to the metal frame. I'm still pimping the iPhone nano idea--a screen the same size or slightly larger than current one that covers nearly all of the front with a touch sensitive Home "button" that is actually a region at the center bottom or corner of the screen.
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post #10 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Is an 8 MP camera that astounding? I am very happy with the picture quality of the iPhone 4's 5 MP camera. I don't see a huge leap forward or enough of a selling point for me to upgrade early...

I love my iPhone 4s 5MP camera, and really have no desire for more pixels (of blurry noise) just because they sound good on a spec sheet.

But you cant deny, 8MP images are simply astonishing! They take up 60% more space on your phone. Then 60% more space on your computer. Then 60% more space in your backup. And 60% more space in your web gallery. And 60% more space when you email them! Its awesome. And how fast can you move 60% more data? 60% slower! 60% slower to save. 60% slower to open. 60% slower to copy, edit, upload, email or back up. You have been given the gift of time. Stop and smell the roses! And laugh at your lowly 5MP friends.

Its the MHz myth all over again. (Exception: $50k camera used for making commercial billboards.)
post #11 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by OllieWallieWhiskers View Post

so true... the 1st gen iPhone was very different from the 3G. it had a better look and feel. the 3G/3Gs felt cheap to me. the iPhone 4 on the other hand... is a work of art.

I agree with you on that. I had an original iPhone, then 3GS, now a 4. My wife had the 3G and now a 4. If I had to choose in order, it'd be 4, 1st gen, 3GS, then 3G. They were the exact same design, but Apple did make the 3GS feel at least a little more high-end than the 3G did when it came out.
post #12 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Is an 8 MP camera that astounding? I am very happy with the picture quality of the iPhone 4's 5 MP camera. I don't see a huge leap forward or enough of a selling point for me to upgrade early...

But it makes a great upgrade for me and millions of other 3GS owners.
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post #13 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I love my iPhone 4s 5MP camera, and really have no desire for more pixels (of blurry noise) just because they sound good on a spec sheet.

But you cant deny, 8MP images are simply astonishing! They take up 60% more space on your phone. Then 60% more space on your computer. Then 60% more space in your backup. And 60% more space in your web gallery. And 60% more space when you email them! Its awesome. And how fast can you move 60% more data? 60% slower! 60% slower to save. 60% slower to open. 60% slower to copy, edit, upload, email or back up. You have been given the gift of time. Stop and smell the roses! And laugh at your lowly 5MP friends.

Its the MHz myth all over again. (Exception: $50k camera used for making commercial billboards.)

Amen. I couldn't be happier with my iPhone 4 even though the new one, whatever SJ names it, will be 60% more of a pain in my ass. But you know, the iCloud will alleviate a lot of pressure on my precious 15GB iPhone...How do you think that will work? Will the cloud take all my music or just the iTunes downloaded music on my iPhone?
post #14 of 36
You would hope if they're going with a 8 mega pixel in the back that it would be a better quality sensor. Not just for the, "more mega pixel is better" hype.

How about making the front facing lens a better quality one? Now there's an idea apple. You would actually SEE the difference with the better front facing lens.
post #15 of 36
If they have anti-motion blur technoloy for moderate to dimmed area then I'm sold!
post #16 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Is an 8 MP camera that astounding?

Thus there is no way to say what we will get until it is delivered. If the base technologies have advanced enough it could be astounding. However I believe the next major advancements are a couple of years away.
Quote:
I am very happy with the picture quality of the iPhone 4's 5 MP camera.

That is good to hear but honestly it gas nothing to do with a new and improved iPhone coming out. That is like saying you are happy with call quality and thus don't need a new phone.
Quote:
I don't see a huge leap forward or enough of a selling point for me to upgrade early...

Contrary to popular belief the upgrades aren't there for you, you are already a customer.
post #17 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvaldes1831 View Post

You are arguing semantics....

Grammar not semantics.
And I said it was picky.
post #18 of 36
I agree with other commenters that suggest the number of pixels is irrelevant to actual consumer use. The perception is otherwise, but it's too bad the only thing most people understand about comparing cameras isn't necessarily true. Any improvement to the picture quality are probably going to be mostly due to something else, but will be assumed to be related to increased pixel count. The real answer is a lot more complicated.
post #19 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

I agree with other commenters that suggest the number of pixels is irrelevant to actual consumer use. The perception is otherwise, but it's too bad the only thing they understand about cameras isn't necessarily true. Any improvement to the picture quality are probably going to be mostly due to something else, but will be assumed to be related to increased pixel count.

Agreed. On matters such as this I always have to remind myself of the following: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:IQ_curve.svg
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post #20 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by freethinker View Post

Is an 8 MP camera that astounding? I am very happy with the picture quality of the iPhone 4's 5 MP camera. I don't see a huge leap forward or enough of a selling point for me to upgrade early...

The increased pixel count is not necessarily meaningful at all.

Apple's cameras are always (so far) better than the competition's cameras at the same megapixel number, so the fact that they are increasing it yet again merely indicates that the camera in the new iPhone will likely be better than the last and also better than the competition, which are no doubt good things.

More telling information about the camera would be the type and size of sensor it uses, and the type and quality of the lens, but we can infer that these will also be better than the current camera in some way.

The 8MP means that it could record video in 1280p but 720p with a higher frame rate would give a better picture, so maybe they will go that way instead.

The only thing you can be certain of is that if it doesn't record in 1280p, that will be another tick-point on the Android fans anti-iPhone hate list.
post #21 of 36
Never heard of 1280p.

Boosting the iPhone's camera to record 1080p video is a much more plausible notion.
post #22 of 36
Sorry, del please .
post #23 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

To me, this is only logical. If this is the "spec bump" upgrade we've all been led to believe, 8MP camera has to be on the checklist. I for one believe that iPhone 5 (or whatever its name will be) will have the A5, 8MP camera, maybe a 1.3 or 2 MP on the front for FaceTime HD, and longer battery life. The same form factor, same colors, etc. I highly doubt Apple completely redesigned the entire body of the iPhone just to use that new redesign for one year. Heck, they used the original design for 3 years, simply swapping out metal for plastic on the back.

Right... And the iPhone has been a phone since 2007 too! It's time for a change!!

</sarcasm>
post #24 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

The 8MP means that it could record video in 1280p but 720p with a higher frame rate would give a better picture, so maybe they will go that way instead.

The only thing you can be certain of is that if it doesn't record in 1280p, that will be another tick-point on the Android fans anti-iPhone hate list.

What does a 8MP sensor do to enable 1080p? Assuming a 4:3 Bayer sensor, only a 2.8MP sensor is needed to be able to record 1080p at native resolution.
post #25 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

What does a 8MP sensor do to enable 1080p? Assuming a 4:3 Bayer sensor, only a 2.8MP sensor is needed to be able to record 1080p at native resolution.

I guess I made it obvious that I don't really care much about video recording there didn't I?

Obviously I'm wrong here, and it's 1080p, but I have read a few articles that claimed 1080p wasn't possible at the current pixel count and that's what we were waiting for.

My point was mainly that a decent frame rate on the high def video recording we already have would be preferable to 1080p recording per se. Almost any motion in an iPhone 4 video turns it into a smeared mess of blurry pixels so saying it records high def video is a bit of a misleading statement really.
post #26 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I guess I made it obvious that I don't really care much about video recording there didn't I?

Obviously I'm wrong here, and it's 1080p, but I have read a few articles that claimed 1080p wasn't possible at the current pixel count and that's what we were waiting for.

My point was mainly that a decent frame rate on the high def video recording we already have would be preferable to 1080p recording per se. Almost any motion in an iPhone 4 video turns it into a smeared mess of blurry pixels so saying it records high def video is a bit of a misleading statement really.

Whatever articles you have been reading about 1080p are erroneous.

The iPod touch captures 720p HD video; it's basically a 0.9MP sensor.

I don't think the 8 megapixel sensor will really add much value for still photography, the limiting factor is the resolving power of the puny lens. Increased sensitivity, particularly low-light performance would be a far better goal, as that greatly improves both still and motion photography.

Since the shutter speed for video is basically 1/60 of a second, that's far more of an issue.
post #27 of 36
So long as this new 8MP camera provides the image quality that we expect from an iDevice. Also, 1080p would be great! As well as image stabilization and face recognition. I still think the touch-to-focus is the best feature! Wish the Hipstamatic app had it.
post #28 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I love my iPhone 4s 5MP camera, and really have no desire for more pixels (of blurry noise) just because they sound good on a spec sheet.

But you cant deny, 8MP images are simply astonishing! They take up 60% more space on your phone. Then 60% more space on your computer. Then 60% more space in your backup. And 60% more space in your web gallery. And 60% more space when you email them! Its awesome. And how fast can you move 60% more data? 60% slower! 60% slower to save. 60% slower to open. 60% slower to copy, edit, upload, email or back up. You have been given the gift of time. Stop and smell the roses! And laugh at your lowly 5MP friends.

Its the MHz myth all over again. (Exception: $50k camera used for making commercial billboards.)



It depends on what else they do with it. If its a straight 5 - 8 MP jump with no sensor improvements, same sensor size, same lens, no software tweaks, etc, then image quality would be worse and all that you said would also be true. However if they improve the sensor to match the megapixels and improve everything else, the new camera could be a nice upgrade. We'll see.
post #29 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by sflocal View Post

Right... And the iPhone has been a phone since 2007 too! It's time for a change!!

</sarcasm>

My point was that the iPhone 4 was the first iPhone since it was introduced to completely redesign everything. New physical design, better camera, front camera, new processor, more memory, high-res screen, etc. etc. etc. iPhone 1 to iPhone 3G was a case change. Swap out metal for plastic, and you're done. 3G to 3GS was a spec bump: same exact look and feel, faster internals. 3GS to 4 was a complete overhaul of everything about the iPhone. All I was saying was I doubt Apple is going to completely overhaul everything again, just give us the 3G to 3GS spec bump.
post #30 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

What does a 8MP sensor do to enable 1080p? Assuming a 4:3 Bayer sensor, only a 2.8MP sensor is needed to be able to record 1080p at native resolution.

The sensor area is 8MP gross pixel count, but for 1080p the sensor area is cropped to a 16:9 aspect ratio rectangle. The sensor itself has usually a 4:3 aspect ratio, hence, a lot of pixels are not used for 1080p recording.

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post #31 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

< . . . > According to the report, most of Largan's current business comes from selling 5-megapixel lenses, while 8-megapixel camera modules represent just 10 percent of the company's business. < . . . > Largan already supplies 5-megapixel lenses for the iPhone 4, and last year it was said that the company was selected as the sole supplier of lenses for the iPad 2.

Dear Mr. Lane,

What are "5-megapixel lenses"? Are you using "lens" interchangeably with "camera"? That would be very sloppy, wouldn't it? What's the deal?
post #32 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

The sensor area is 8MP gross pixel count, but for 1080p the sensor area is cropped to a 16:9 aspect ratio rectangle. The sensor itself has usually a 4:3 aspect ratio, hence, a lot of pixels are not used for 1080p recording.

Pretty much what I've already said, except I'm saying 8MP is a false figure as far as I can tell.

What I was saying is that a 2.8MP 4:3 Bayer sensor (1920x1440) can crop down to 16:9 1080p, though only one photo site per pixel. The 8MP might be 3x photosites per pixel, but that's not common for cell phones.
post #33 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM View Post

Pretty much what I've already said, except I'm saying 8MP is a false figure as far as I can tell.

What I was saying is that a 2.8MP 4:3 Bayer sensor (1920x1440) can crop down to 16:9 1080p, though only one photo site per pixel. The 8MP might be 3x photosites per pixel, but that's not common for cell phones.

I thought for stills you would get the entire 8MP sensor. Isn't that how cameras with 4:3 sensors usually work? In what way is it false to call it 8MP?

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post #34 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

I thought for stills you would get the entire 8MP sensor. Isn't that how cameras with 4:3 sensors usually work? In what way is it false to call it 8MP?

What I mean is to say that 8MP is necessary to get 1080p is false.
post #35 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by hittrj01 View Post

To me, this is only logical. If this is the "spec bump" upgrade we've all been led to believe, 8MP camera has to be on the checklist. I for one believe that iPhone 5 (or whatever its name will be) will have the A5, 8MP camera, maybe a 1.3 or 2 MP on the front for FaceTime HD, and longer battery life. The same form factor, same colors, etc. I highly doubt Apple completely redesigned the entire body of the iPhone just to use that new redesign for one year. Heck, they used the original design for 3 years, simply swapping out metal for plastic on the back.

My thoughts exactly great post
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post #36 of 36
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme View Post

I love my iPhone 4s 5MP camera, and really have no desire for more pixels (of blurry noise) just because they sound good on a spec sheet.

But you cant deny, 8MP images are simply astonishing! They take up 60% more space on your phone. Then 60% more space on your computer. Then 60% more space in your backup. And 60% more space in your web gallery. And 60% more space when you email them! Its awesome. And how fast can you move 60% more data? 60% slower! 60% slower to save. 60% slower to open. 60% slower to copy, edit, upload, email or back up. You have been given the gift of time. Stop and smell the roses! And laugh at your lowly 5MP friends.

Its the MHz myth all over again. (Exception: $50k camera used for making commercial billboards.)

Agreed. 8MP, for a camera that shoots grainy shots anyway, wont be all that impressive. 8MP of grain is only moderately better than 5MP of grain. It's the quality of the sensor that matters, not the number of pixels captured (past a certain point anyway).

What I'm noticing in the pictures is the front camera is the same size as the back camera. How nice would it be to have a 5MP camera on the front and the back instead of a crappy camera on the front? That grainy sombitch on the front is nearly worthless.
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