Lawsuit accuses Broadway Apple Store employees of racial discrimination - Page 4  

Originally Posted by Apple ][

Clothing is more than enough to draw conclusions about somebody. If somebody seeks to dress like a criminal, then nobody should be surprised if other people notice that too. The clothes (baggy, droopy pants etc.) have their roots and origins in prison culture.

Originally Posted by paxman

Originally Posted by paxman

I am not sure Apple is terrified of discrimination. By implication you are suggesting that were they not terrified they would discriminate by choice. But anyway, you aren't terrified, are you? You sound like a real cool stand-up guy.

Originally Posted by Galbi

The ball is in Apple's court. Its for them to disprove of these allegations.

Originally Posted by addabox

God, what a depressing thread.

I have no idea what transpired at this particular Apple Store on that particular day (although it's worth noting that it was a particular Apple Store and a particular staff, so Apple's general policies aren't really much help sorting things out).

Given that, many of the responses and speculations in this thread (of which I have the entirety in front of me and which requires no speculation or assumptions) are appalling.

I've learned that any black man wearing a hoodie and baggy jeans is perforce a "thug" and has therefore surrendered his rights to go about his business unchallenged. Oddly, making the combination of race and clothing an actionable offense is stridently defended as having nothing to do with race. I guess if we just all agree that young urban black men are criminals until proven innocent (or until they upgrade their wardrobe) then there's nothing "racist" about it because it's just, you know, true and anyone that disagrees is "playing the race card."

I've learned that the real problem is that white people are occasionally importuned or embarrassed by black people accusing them of racism. I've learned that we live in a post racial society where any lingering prejudice against blacks is almost nothing compared to the horror white people being accused of racism, and this in a thread where there seems to be an almost unanimous opinion that young black men in hoodies and baggy pants entering the high temple of an Apple Store are very obviously shoplifters, thugs, criminals, gang members and con men, and if they go to the trouble of acquiring an attorney and bringing suit it's very obviously just a scam. It's the only possible explanation, you see, because white people are very clear on the fact that a certain style of dress is practically a prison tat.

Oh, and just as a side show, it turns out this is all somehow related to Obama's Justice Department, which is presumably coddling black criminals, on account of race loyalty.

But it's not racist to say so! It's just a fact! Like I say, I have no idea what happened at the store. For all I know these guys were actually serial shop lifters well know by the staff. But for all any of you know, they were graduate students at NYU looking to buy headphones. There isn't anything in the article that provides for any conclusion, yet the thread lurches into a braying chorus of condemnation of the litigants based on literally nothing more than than race and their clothing.

Oh, and the occasional belittling of anyone defending those litigants, because that would be jumping to conclusions.

Like I say, depressing.

Originally Posted by IronTed

No, I don't agree with you. This is truly disgusting! It appalls me that in this age and time, there's still racial discrimination. And no, there's no dress code at any Apple Store, unlike IBM. You can dress in any comfortable way you want. And you can speak with any accent. Prejudice is not an excuse for discrimination.

Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.

All involved employees of the Store should be fired.

Now, I wonder which one of you on AppleInsider is a racist?

Originally Posted by Apple ][

I don't know exactly how those two people looked or dressed, but if they dressed anything like the pants on these two geniuses in the picture, then I would have immediately given them the boot from the Apple store, even if they had been wearing shirts, unlike the two in the picture.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

Why would I be terrified? I don't dress like I just got released from Riker's Island. I have nothing to worry about when walking into an Apple store. And yes, I am a real cool stand-up guy. I tell it like it is and I am fortunate enough to have a pretty good BS detector built in to me.

Originally Posted by paxman

A lot of people are assuming an awful lot. Period. Nobody knows anything. Maybe the Apple employee over reacted to a perceived threat. But then again, maybe not. Maybe his inner racist came out, but then again, maybe not. Maybe the two guys were looking for trouble, but then again, maybe not. Nobody here knows and to voice an opinion as to who is guilty is sure to do nothing more than reveal prejudices.

Is there a 'how to treat a gangsta' rule book?

That's bull. If you dress like a criminal do I have the right to handcuff you and lock you up? We live in a world of diverse fashions and everybody knows that. How should we treat someone who dresses like a pirate (ish), or god forbid, a 'prostitute'? Criminals don't 'dress like criminals', they usually dress like bankers. At least the really bad ones do. If you see someone wearing stripes, on the other hand, its much more serious I got to admit.
...

Originally Posted by solipsism

Only criminals were baggy clothing? If you dont believe that then you cant draw such a conclusion.

It wasnt that long ago that we drew conclusions on intelligence based on the number of mustard seeds a cranium could hold. Can you not see the mismeasure of such a conclusion?

Originally Posted by NomadMac

And how do you know that?

A dress code? An over the top comment. If you want to imitate the fashion of criminals, then don't be surprised at the reception you get at a bank or a retail store. Baggy clothes help conceal firearms and stolen goods which is why prisoners and thugs wear them.

And you're making an assumption that I'm white.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

I don't know exactly how those two people looked or dressed, but if they dressed anything like the pants on these two geniuses in the picture, then I would have immediately given them the boot from the Apple store, even if they had been wearing shirts, unlike the two in the picture.

Originally Posted by lamewing

There may no be a "dress code", but if these guys were dressed like thugs and have a reputation as troublesome people, then I see absolutely no problem with them being asked to leave.

You are basing your opinion on a news story that doesn't provide all the information as to what really happens. Sounds like you are doing a bit of trolling...

Originally Posted by lamewing

agreed!!!

Originally Posted by lamewing

Can you not see and understand exactly what was being said? Clearly he is referring to the folks who wear baggy tops, hoodies to cover their heads, and baggy pants hanging below their asses. I have dealt with folks like this and I am always on "red alert" because this image reminds me of an urban street thug.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

Apple is terrified of discrimination, they couldn't even get rid of obvious Chinese scalpers, I doubt they would deliberately eject black people because they were black.

Maybe their baggy pants were obscene. Maybe they were the kind of douches who wear their pants damn near hanging down on their knees, like a bunch of uncivilized retards. Maybe they were loud or speaking offensive language or they were doing something else which got them booted.

Not everything that happens to black people is because of racism. Maybe those two people who like to dress like thugs can call Obama and then we can have a beer summit and Obama can hold a press conference and say that Steve Jobs and Apple acted stupidly.

Black people and liberals or anybody for that matter who plays the race card are disgusting human beings, pure trash.

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

When we lived in Las Vegas, 1964-78 a group of individual performers was known as the "Rat-Pack", Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., Dean Martin, Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford.



Rat Pack


Many of these entertainers would appear "in-town" at different hotels, concurrently. After a show, one performer would "drop-in" on another's show -- and go onstage and perform a duet -- sometimes steal the show. Often, those not "in town" would fly in just to do the "tour".

Sometimes, a lucky audience attending, say, a Dean Martin show -- would get the whole "rat-pack" on stage -- to the enjoyment of all.


Of topic?


Not too much.


What's interesting is that the rat pack performed in the "best hotels" in Las Vegas and entertained the best audiences -- often to standing Os.

But, one of them could not stay in a hotel room within the Las Vegas City Limits. Sammy Davis Jr., because he was "black" had to stay at hotels in the City of North Las Vegas.


That was less than 50 years ago...

Originally Posted by addabox

What fun! Based on "baggy pants and sweaters with hoods" we've gone the full thug.

This is just pure, unadulterated racism. Ya'll should be banned for it.

Originally Posted by Doctor David


Are you ever going to be done with the Chinese scalpers thing?

Originally Posted by Apple ][

Why would I be terrified? I don't dress like I just got released from Riker's Island. I have nothing to worry about when walking into an Apple store. And yes, I am a real cool stand-up guy. I tell it like it is and I am fortunate enough to have a pretty good BS detector built in to me.

Originally Posted by Shadoe

Speaking of Riker's Island, is that where that suit and tie wearing, crazy old, rich ex-politician, serial rapist name Dominique Strauss-Kahn was being detained? (Reality check, anyone?)

Originally Posted by Apple ][

I don't know exactly how those two people looked or dressed, but if they dressed anything like the pants on these two geniuses in the picture, then I would have immediately given them the boot from the Apple store, even if they had been wearing shirts, unlike the two in the picture.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

Baloney. If it was two white douchebag kids who dressed the exact same way, then they too should get the boot.

Originally Posted by addabox

What fun! Based on "baggy pants and sweaters with hoods" we've gone the full thug.

This is just pure, unadulterated racism. Ya'll should be banned for it.

Originally Posted by addabox

Except that's not what we're talking about, is it? And it's not the picture you chose to post, is it? And people like you always claim that they'd treat white people who somehow triggered the same fear and loathing "just the same", but it never seems to happen, does it?

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

Bad example, IMO.

While I don't find this style attractive -- I am not threatened by it.

Originally Posted by NomadMac

Walk like a thug, talk like a thug and dress like a thug, you can't complain about the reception you get.
Do you think they would have been tossed if they were wearing an Armani suit?

Originally Posted by AdonisSMU

Why would you take these people's word for it? What happened to innocent until proven otherwise? Or does this only apply to minorities? You are just as bad as people who really are racist.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

That's easy enough to say on a forum. But if it were 2 am and you were getting on to a subway car and you had the choice of getting into an almost empty car with a few people who dressed like gang members or to get into a car with a few people who looked liked they were returning home from work, it is fairly obvious that virtually all people would enter the second car.

Originally Posted by solipsism

How does Old Navy stay business when that is what they sell? They must have to turn away pretty much every customer since theyre all criminals.

PS: I bet I could guess which posters think rap music is 1) should defined as art or music, 2) only for blacks, and 3) only for criminals.

PPS: This thread is absurd. Its like phrenological racism but with fashion: Fashionology?

Originally Posted by MacRulez

Oddly enough, few have done as much for racial integration of Las Vegas than Dino and Frankie: they got tired of casino owners telling them Sammy couldn't stay there, so they put out the word, "Sammy's welcome, or we don't play your club". No club could afford to have the two biggest names in town boycott them, so they began to repeal their "whites only" policies.

Originally Posted by asdasd

I read that to say: I am not racially discriminating against you, I am discriminating against you for other reasons - appearance and dress. Thats "your kind"

Should be easy enough to defend. Were there black americans in there at the time, without hoods, and were they discriminated against ( clearly not: this is a two person class action suit) . Were whites kicked out at other occasions if sporting certain attire at any time in the operation of this store. If so, forget it.

Originally Posted by Mister Snitch

Give it a rest, clownboy. The employees saw a couple of guys dressed in BULKY CLOTHING. Clothes you can easily slip shoplifted items into. That's all they need to see. And you know what else? It's APPLE's store. That means they get to decide who to allow inside. Period.

What a self-righteous fool you are.

And you'd be 100% wrong. Retail stores are always, and I mean ALWAYS on the lookout for items of clothing that could be used to conceal lifted merch. That's why most stores make you check your bags at the door. Security checks ANYONE - male, female, black, white - wearing such clothing, and they are especially suspicious of people traveling in pairs or groups (where one serves as the lookout).

Another big fat fail, playing the tired 'racist' card.

Originally Posted by spliff monkey

I have to disagree. White kids who try to be "thugs" are even more offensive than kids who grew up in a community and are following the norms of that community. Neither really has an excuse to behave or dress like a thug if they want to elevate themselves, but it sure is allot harder to bring yourself up and stand apart than it is do step down because you are insecure about being a privileged white kid in a urban environment.

If neither could speak well or impress me with their demeanor, I wouldn't hire either. Your assumptions are erroneous.

Originally Posted by NomadMac

And how do you know that?

A dress code? An over the top comment. If you want to imitate the fashion of criminals, then don't be surprised at the reception you get at a bank or a retail store. Baggy clothes help conceal firearms and stolen goods which is why prisoners and thugs wear them.

And you're making an assumption that I'm white.

Originally Posted by Mister Snitch

"Black" is making all kinds of assumptions. Don't expect facts to slow him (her?) down much.

Originally Posted by Apple ][

That's easy enough to say on a forum. But if it were 2 am and you were getting on to a subway car and you had the choice of getting into an almost empty car with a few people who dressed like gang members or to get into a car with a few people who looked liked they were returning home from work, it is fairly obvious that virtually all people would enter the second car.

Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody

You are being very unfair and biased here yourself. You pick my comments out for chastisement, when even a casual perusal of the thread makes it obvious that my remarks are some of the most temperate.

Your also missing the fact that I almost completely agree with you and you with me. Your first paragraph for instance is almost a 1 to 1 paraphrasing of my first comment on the thread.

Maybe you are just making a bad joke but you are putting words in my mouth with your over the top interpretation of the clothing issue and I don't appreciate it.

What I said was that people judge each other and outward appearances like clothing and the way in which a person carries themselves is a big part of that. These are just obvious facts, I'm not trying to make some arcane weird argument here. I was in fact making a distinction between merely wearing baggy clothes and "looking/acting Gangsta"and there is a big difference, and it's pretty obvious to any impartial observer who hasn't been hiding under a rock for the last 20 years.

What I said was that *IF* in fact, these guys were dressed/acting "Gangsta" then they must expect to be treated as if they were in fact dangerous criminals, which is basically the whole point of dressing/acting that way.

To argue against this by posting a humorous picture of a guy in stripes misses the entire point at best. The fact that not all criminals dress/act like criminals, doesn't in any way alter the fact that dressing/acting like a criminal may sometimes get you treated like one. That doesn't even make sense.

Originally Posted by paxman

The whole point? There are too many degrees of 'gangsta', to make such a claim. I mean how are you supposed to treat a dangerous criminal? Shouldn't you run away and call the law? There are too many variables. What if I am a regular black guy and the guy next to me in the Apple store is hulky redneck. What should my legitimate thoughts be? Should I call the police? Move away?

Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum

But, a subway car at 2 AM and gang members are not the issue. That was the picture you posted -- and you said you would give these two the boot for their dress (even if they wore shirts).

Why? What's wrong with it?

Originally Posted by lamewing

Can you not see and understand exactly what was being said? Clearly he is referring to the folks who wear baggy tops, hoodies to cover their heads, and baggy pants hanging below their asses. I have dealt with folks like this and I am always on "red alert" because this image reminds me of an urban street thug.

Originally Posted by solipsism

How does Old Navy stay business when that is what they sell? They must have to turn away pretty much every customer since theyre all criminals.

PS: I bet I could guess which posters think rap music is 1) should NOT be defined as art or music, 2) is only for blacks, and 3) is only for criminals.

PPS: This thread is absurd. Its like phrenological racism but with fashion: Fashionology?

Originally Posted by akirafirestorm

i've come into the applestore thugged out and they treated me with the utmost. I really really doubt it. Money be green. Its a business. If they were looking suspect, this is america and people know that lawsuits happen over nothing so i really doubt it