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Lawsuit accuses Broadway Apple Store employees of racial discrimination - Page 4  

post #121 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Clothing is more than enough to draw conclusions about somebody. If somebody seeks to dress like a criminal, then nobody should be surprised if other people notice that too. The clothes (baggy, droopy pants etc.) have their roots and origins in prison culture.

Only criminals were baggy clothing? If you dont believe that then you cant draw such a conclusion.

It wasnt that long ago that we drew conclusions on intelligence based on the number of mustard seeds a cranium could hold. Can you not see the mismeasure of such a conclusion?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
post #122 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post



Yea- they dress to steal billions
post #123 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

I am not sure Apple is terrified of discrimination. By implication you are suggesting that were they not terrified they would discriminate by choice. But anyway, you aren't terrified, are you? You sound like a real cool stand-up guy.

Why would I be terrified? I don't dress like I just got released from Riker's Island. I have nothing to worry about when walking into an Apple store. And yes, I am a real cool stand-up guy. I tell it like it is and I am fortunate enough to have a pretty good BS detector built in to me.
post #124 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

The ball is in Apple's court. Its for them to disprove of these allegations.

How do you figure? It's up to the ones making the allegations to make their case. Otherwise, isn't that kinda' like saying Apple is guilty until they can prove their innocence? Supposed to be the other way around, don't you think?
post #125 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

God, what a depressing thread.

I have no idea what transpired at this particular Apple Store on that particular day (although it's worth noting that it was a particular Apple Store and a particular staff, so Apple's general policies aren't really much help sorting things out).

Given that, many of the responses and speculations in this thread (of which I have the entirety in front of me and which requires no speculation or assumptions) are appalling.

I've learned that any black man wearing a hoodie and baggy jeans is perforce a "thug" and has therefore surrendered his rights to go about his business unchallenged. Oddly, making the combination of race and clothing an actionable offense is stridently defended as having nothing to do with race. I guess if we just all agree that young urban black men are criminals until proven innocent (or until they upgrade their wardrobe) then there's nothing "racist" about it because it's just, you know, true and anyone that disagrees is "playing the race card."

I've learned that the real problem is that white people are occasionally importuned or embarrassed by black people accusing them of racism. I've learned that we live in a post racial society where any lingering prejudice against blacks is almost nothing compared to the horror white people being accused of racism, and this in a thread where there seems to be an almost unanimous opinion that young black men in hoodies and baggy pants entering the high temple of an Apple Store are very obviously shoplifters, thugs, criminals, gang members and con men, and if they go to the trouble of acquiring an attorney and bringing suit it's very obviously just a scam. It's the only possible explanation, you see, because white people are very clear on the fact that a certain style of dress is practically a prison tat.

Oh, and just as a side show, it turns out this is all somehow related to Obama's Justice Department, which is presumably coddling black criminals, on account of race loyalty.

But it's not racist to say so! It's just a fact! Like I say, I have no idea what happened at the store. For all I know these guys were actually serial shop lifters well know by the staff. But for all any of you know, they were graduate students at NYU looking to buy headphones. There isn't anything in the article that provides for any conclusion, yet the thread lurches into a braying chorus of condemnation of the litigants based on literally nothing more than than race and their clothing.

Oh, and the occasional belittling of anyone defending those litigants, because that would be jumping to conclusions.

Like I say, depressing.

Best post so far. I visit Apple Insider 7 days a week, several times a day and I've come to know dozens of regular posters by name and by their predictable attitude regarding various tech issues. The regulars posting on this issue have revealed a side of themselves that's usually not at all visible. This confirms something that I always assume. There is heterogeneity that underlies every group of people no matter what common links (Apple fans for example) they may may share. I'm disappointed a bit by the comments of people whose opinions I respect on tech matters, but not very surprised.
post #126 of 213
I don't know exactly how those two people looked or dressed, but if they dressed anything like the pants on these two geniuses in the picture, then I would have immediately given them the boot from the Apple store, even if they had been wearing shirts, unlike the two in the picture.

post #127 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by IronTed View Post

No, I don't agree with you. This is truly disgusting! It appalls me that in this age and time, there's still racial discrimination. And no, there's no dress code at any Apple Store, unlike IBM. You can dress in any comfortable way you want. And you can speak with any accent. Prejudice is not an excuse for discrimination.

Steve Jobs will never approve of this. He's a Buddhist, and a vegetarian. He's the most humble person you will ever come across. He would never consider himself a God.

All involved employees of the Store should be fired.

Now, I wonder which one of you on AppleInsider is a racist?

There may no be a "dress code", but if these guys were dressed like thugs and have a reputation as troublesome people, then I see absolutely no problem with them being asked to leave.

You are basing your opinion on a news story that doesn't provide all the information as to what really happens. Sounds like you are doing a bit of trolling...
post #128 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't know exactly how those two people looked or dressed, but if they dressed anything like the pants on these two geniuses in the picture, then I would have immediately given them the boot from the Apple store, even if they had been wearing shirts, unlike the two in the picture.


agreed!!!
post #129 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Why would I be terrified? I don't dress like I just got released from Riker's Island. I have nothing to worry about when walking into an Apple store. And yes, I am a real cool stand-up guy. I tell it like it is and I am fortunate enough to have a pretty good BS detector built in to me.

I think you are full of it. Your detector must be up the blink or it'd be going full time.
post #130 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

A lot of people are assuming an awful lot. Period. Nobody knows anything. Maybe the Apple employee over reacted to a perceived threat. But then again, maybe not. Maybe his inner racist came out, but then again, maybe not. Maybe the two guys were looking for trouble, but then again, maybe not. Nobody here knows and to voice an opinion as to who is guilty is sure to do nothing more than reveal prejudices.

Is there a 'how to treat a gangsta' rule book?

That's bull. If you dress like a criminal do I have the right to handcuff you and lock you up? We live in a world of diverse fashions and everybody knows that. How should we treat someone who dresses like a pirate (ish), or god forbid, a 'prostitute'? Criminals don't 'dress like criminals', they usually dress like bankers. At least the really bad ones do. If you see someone wearing stripes, on the other hand, its much more serious I got to admit.
...

You are being very unfair and biased here yourself. You pick my comments out for chastisement, when even a casual perusal of the thread makes it obvious that my remarks are some of the most temperate.

Your also missing the fact that I almost completely agree with you and you with me. Your first paragraph for instance is almost a 1 to 1 paraphrasing of my first comment on the thread.

Maybe you are just making a bad joke but you are putting words in my mouth with your over the top interpretation of the clothing issue and I don't appreciate it.

What I said was that people judge each other and outward appearances like clothing and the way in which a person carries themselves is a big part of that. These are just obvious facts, I'm not trying to make some arcane weird argument here. I was in fact making a distinction between merely wearing baggy clothes and "looking/acting Gangsta"and there is a big difference, and it's pretty obvious to any impartial observer who hasn't been hiding under a rock for the last 20 years.

What I said was that *IF* in fact, these guys were dressed/acting "Gangsta" then they must expect to be treated as if they were in fact dangerous criminals, which is basically the whole point of dressing/acting that way.

To argue against this by posting a humorous picture of a guy in stripes misses the entire point at best. The fact that not all criminals dress/act like criminals, doesn't in any way alter the fact that dressing/acting like a criminal may sometimes get you treated like one. That doesn't even make sense.
post #131 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Only criminals were baggy clothing? If you dont believe that then you cant draw such a conclusion.

It wasnt that long ago that we drew conclusions on intelligence based on the number of mustard seeds a cranium could hold. Can you not see the mismeasure of such a conclusion?

Can you not see and understand exactly what was being said? Clearly he is referring to the folks who wear baggy tops, hoodies to cover their heads, and baggy pants hanging below their asses. I have dealt with folks like this and I am always on "red alert" because this image reminds me of an urban street thug.
post #132 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

And how do you know that?

A dress code? An over the top comment. If you want to imitate the fashion of criminals, then don't be surprised at the reception you get at a bank or a retail store. Baggy clothes help conceal firearms and stolen goods which is why prisoners and thugs wear them.

And you're making an assumption that I'm white.

Actually, people of all walks of life are wearing baggy clothing. Church goers, graduate level students, small business owners, etc You are just as likely to meet ex-cons, thugs, and drug dealers dressed in traditional suit and tie.

By the way, should I assume you have practice concealing firearms and stolen goods? Since know a lot about prisoners and thugs.
post #133 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't know exactly how those two people looked or dressed, but if they dressed anything like the pants on these two geniuses in the picture, then I would have immediately given them the boot from the Apple store, even if they had been wearing shirts, unlike the two in the picture.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

There may no be a "dress code", but if these guys were dressed like thugs and have a reputation as troublesome people, then I see absolutely no problem with them being asked to leave.

You are basing your opinion on a news story that doesn't provide all the information as to what really happens. Sounds like you are doing a bit of trolling...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

agreed!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Can you not see and understand exactly what was being said? Clearly he is referring to the folks who wear baggy tops, hoodies to cover their heads, and baggy pants hanging below their asses. I have dealt with folks like this and I am always on "red alert" because this image reminds me of an urban street thug.

What fun! Based on "baggy pants and sweaters with hoods" we've gone the full thug.

This is just pure, unadulterated racism. Ya'll should be banned for it.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #134 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Apple is terrified of discrimination, they couldn't even get rid of obvious Chinese scalpers, I doubt they would deliberately eject black people because they were black.

Maybe their baggy pants were obscene. Maybe they were the kind of douches who wear their pants damn near hanging down on their knees, like a bunch of uncivilized retards. Maybe they were loud or speaking offensive language or they were doing something else which got them booted.

Not everything that happens to black people is because of racism. Maybe those two people who like to dress like thugs can call Obama and then we can have a beer summit and Obama can hold a press conference and say that Steve Jobs and Apple acted stupidly.

Black people and liberals or anybody for that matter who plays the race card are disgusting human beings, pure trash.

You seem eager to discriminate against people. You should check out the video Apple did for the "it gets better" campaign on you tube. Diversity is one of Apples hallmarks. Seeing past ones attire, hair etc. seems to have served apple well, probably by forcing people to judge others work on its merits.
For those reasons I would find it a little surprising to find these allegations true. But not impossible by any stretch. Racism isn't everywhere but it does show up still. For instance, take your post...

Are you ever going to be done with the Chinese scalpers thing?
post #135 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

When we lived in Las Vegas, 1964-78 a group of individual performers was known as the "Rat-Pack", Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr., Dean Martin, Joey Bishop and Peter Lawford.



Rat Pack


Many of these entertainers would appear "in-town" at different hotels, concurrently. After a show, one performer would "drop-in" on another's show -- and go onstage and perform a duet -- sometimes steal the show. Often, those not "in town" would fly in just to do the "tour".

Sometimes, a lucky audience attending, say, a Dean Martin show -- would get the whole "rat-pack" on stage -- to the enjoyment of all.


Of topic?


Not too much.


What's interesting is that the rat pack performed in the "best hotels" in Las Vegas and entertained the best audiences -- often to standing Os.

But, one of them could not stay in a hotel room within the Las Vegas City Limits. Sammy Davis Jr., because he was "black" had to stay at hotels in the City of North Las Vegas.


That was less than 50 years ago...

Oddly enough, few have done as much for racial integration of Las Vegas than Dino and Frankie: they got tired of casino owners telling them Sammy couldn't stay there, so they put out the word, "Sammy's welcome, or we don't play your club". No club could afford to have the two biggest names in town boycott them, so they began to repeal their "whites only" policies.
post #136 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What fun! Based on "baggy pants and sweaters with hoods" we've gone the full thug.

This is just pure, unadulterated racism. Ya'll should be banned for it.

Baloney. If it was two white douchebag kids who dressed the exact same way, then they too should get the boot.
post #137 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor David View Post


Are you ever going to be done with the Chinese scalpers thing?

I'm done with the Chinese scalpers for now, until the iPad 3 comes out I guess.

I have my iPad 2 now, and it's great, I'm loving it. I'm not on it right now, but it is next to me and I just have time warner cable on in the background running.
post #138 of 213
I happened to be be on the West side and went to the Apple Store and it was VERY different.
It wasnt the same " inviting " place that im used too. I stood by the Macbook Air and tried to get some help and got surrounded by guys (NOT Salesmen ) saying No one is available

I dont think (or Hope ) it was about Race but about Overzealous security guys paying too much attention to the black customers while salesmen paid NONE ! I even went back again days later and guess what .. Same Sh**

I went to the 5th Avenue Apple Store & got helped immediately.
Picked up a White IPhone,

These young guys that look like thugs ... walk around with $300 Headphones, IPhones AND IPod Touches ( Too much music for 1 device ) and they love Apple products just like you guys with tight Dockers.

If you dont like them, then put up those WHITE ONLY signs tucked away in your parents closets
post #139 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Why would I be terrified? I don't dress like I just got released from Riker's Island. I have nothing to worry about when walking into an Apple store. And yes, I am a real cool stand-up guy. I tell it like it is and I am fortunate enough to have a pretty good BS detector built in to me.

Speaking of Riker's Island, is that where that suit and tie wearing, crazy old, rich ex-politician, serial rapist name Dominique Strauss-Kahn was being detained? (Reality check, anyone?)
post #140 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadoe View Post

Speaking of Riker's Island, is that where that suit and tie wearing, crazy old, rich ex-politician, serial rapist name Dominique Strauss-Kahn was being detained? (Reality check, anyone?)

Yes it was. Criminals and rapists come in all stripes and colors. Suit wearing rapists does not cancel out baggy pants wearing thug wannabes.
post #141 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

I don't know exactly how those two people looked or dressed, but if they dressed anything like the pants on these two geniuses in the picture, then I would have immediately given them the boot from the Apple store, even if they had been wearing shirts, unlike the two in the picture.


Bad example, IMO.

While I don't find this style attractive -- I am not threatened by it. The two individuals might be refused service for no shirts if that is accepted dress. But they're not in a store -- they're outside on a sunny day.

Other than that -- the two in the picture appear to be neat and clean, they are not exposing themselves -- and it doesn't appear that it would be easy for them to shoplift anything.

I often go to stores dressed in clean sweats or shorts and T-Shirts -- and expect to get service.

The outfits pictured above are less revealing than most shorts.
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
post #142 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

Baloney. If it was two white douchebag kids who dressed the exact same way, then they too should get the boot.

Except that's not what we're talking about, is it? And it's not the picture you chose to post, is it? And people like you always claim that they'd treat white people who somehow triggered the same fear and loathing "just the same", but it never seems to happen, does it?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #143 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

What fun! Based on "baggy pants and sweaters with hoods" we've gone the full thug.

This is just pure, unadulterated racism. Ya'll should be banned for it.

How does Old Navy stay business when that is what they sell? They must have to turn away pretty much every customer since theyre all criminals.

PS: I bet I could guess which posters think rap music is 1) should NOT be defined as art or music, 2) is only for blacks, and 3) is only for criminals.

PPS: This thread is absurd. Its like phrenological racism but with fashion: Fashionology?
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
post #144 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox View Post

Except that's not what we're talking about, is it? And it's not the picture you chose to post, is it? And people like you always claim that they'd treat white people who somehow triggered the same fear and loathing "just the same", but it never seems to happen, does it?

I posted that particular picture, because this story is about 2 black men alleging racial discrimination. Had it been about 2 white men, then I would've posted a different picture.

I can only speak for myself, but I am an equal opportunity discriminator.
post #145 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

Bad example, IMO.

While I don't find this style attractive -- I am not threatened by it.

That's easy enough to say on a forum. But if it were 2 am and you were getting on to a subway car and you had the choice of getting into an almost empty car with a few people who dressed like gang members or to get into a car with a few people who looked liked they were returning home from work, it is fairly obvious that virtually all people would enter the second car.
post #146 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

Walk like a thug, talk like a thug and dress like a thug, you can't complain about the reception you get.
Do you think they would have been tossed if they were wearing an Armani suit?

Doninique Strauss-Kahn was wearing an Armani suit.
post #147 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdonisSMU View Post

Why would you take these people's word for it? What happened to innocent until proven otherwise? Or does this only apply to minorities? You are just as bad as people who really are racist.

First the presumption of innocence only applies in criminal cases not civil cases. Second, people can choose to take the word of whomever they desire, in fact that is what often happens when evaluating evidence. Third, give the first two things, the allegation that this only applies to minorities is kind of off base too.

In essence there is an allegation. Some of here have decided based on the snippet of information that they either believe the ones making the allegation or believe Apple (which from what I can understand hasn't even answered the complaint yet). In my mind it's too early to draw a conclusion about this one way or the other.

Finally clothes don't make a thug, no more than a leather vest makes one a member of a motorcycle gang. I think some of the arguments being advanced are kind of silly.
post #148 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That's easy enough to say on a forum. But if it were 2 am and you were getting on to a subway car and you had the choice of getting into an almost empty car with a few people who dressed like gang members or to get into a car with a few people who looked liked they were returning home from work, it is fairly obvious that virtually all people would enter the second car.

I think its fairly obvious that it's virtually incorrect.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
post #149 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How does Old Navy stay business when that is what they sell? They must have to turn away pretty much every customer since theyre all criminals.

PS: I bet I could guess which posters think rap music is 1) should defined as art or music, 2) only for blacks, and 3) only for criminals.

PPS: This thread is absurd. Its like phrenological racism but with fashion: Fashionology?

Excellent analysis. I agree 100%. Particularly the way in which it is stated.
post #150 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Oddly enough, few have done as much for racial integration of Las Vegas than Dino and Frankie: they got tired of casino owners telling them Sammy couldn't stay there, so they put out the word, "Sammy's welcome, or we don't play your club". No club could afford to have the two biggest names in town boycott them, so they began to repeal their "whites only" policies.

Actually, I think Howard Hughes' involvement in Las Vegas hotels had more to do with the breakdown of racial barriers than any "boycott" by the rat-pack.

Hughes' involvement brought legitimacy and international corporate perspective to the Las Vegas Hotel and Gaming industries -- it changed everything!
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
post #151 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

I read that to say: I am not racially discriminating against you, I am discriminating against you for other reasons - appearance and dress. Thats "your kind"

Should be easy enough to defend. Were there black americans in there at the time, without hoods, and were they discriminated against ( clearly not: this is a two person class action suit) . Were whites kicked out at other occasions if sporting certain attire at any time in the operation of this store. If so, forget it.

Actually, you can't defend that! You can't go kicking people out of places just because they are not dressed like Dominique Strauss-Kahn.
post #152 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

Give it a rest, clownboy. The employees saw a couple of guys dressed in BULKY CLOTHING. Clothes you can easily slip shoplifted items into. That's all they need to see. And you know what else? It's APPLE's store. That means they get to decide who to allow inside. Period.

What a self-righteous fool you are.

And you'd be 100% wrong. Retail stores are always, and I mean ALWAYS on the lookout for items of clothing that could be used to conceal lifted merch. That's why most stores make you check your bags at the door. Security checks ANYONE - male, female, black, white - wearing such clothing, and they are especially suspicious of people traveling in pairs or groups (where one serves as the lookout).

Another big fat fail, playing the tired 'racist' card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spliff monkey View Post

I have to disagree. White kids who try to be "thugs" are even more offensive than kids who grew up in a community and are following the norms of that community. Neither really has an excuse to behave or dress like a thug if they want to elevate themselves, but it sure is allot harder to bring yourself up and stand apart than it is do step down because you are insecure about being a privileged white kid in a urban environment.

If neither could speak well or impress me with their demeanor, I wouldn't hire either. Your assumptions are erroneous.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

And how do you know that?

A dress code? An over the top comment. If you want to imitate the fashion of criminals, then don't be surprised at the reception you get at a bank or a retail store. Baggy clothes help conceal firearms and stolen goods which is why prisoners and thugs wear them.

And you're making an assumption that I'm white.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Snitch View Post

"Black" is making all kinds of assumptions. Don't expect facts to slow him (her?) down much.

Whole lotta fail going on in this thread. Whole lotta fail. So baggy clothing is the "fashion of criminals"?

According to the article "The lawsuit alleges that the Apple employee approached the customers in an 'intimidating fashion,' invading their 'personal space,' and said to them, 'You know the deal. You know the deal.' The employee allegedly told the plaintiffs that they must leave the store unless they planned to purchase something or see a Mac Specialist."

Again, like I said in my first post: we don't know all the facts. Maybe they were acting suspiciously around ipods or ipads or something small that they could slip into their pockets. If thats the case, then I can understand the employees wanting them to leave.

But if they weren't, that behavior by the Apple employees is complete bullshit.
post #153 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Apple ][ View Post

That's easy enough to say on a forum. But if it were 2 am and you were getting on to a subway car and you had the choice of getting into an almost empty car with a few people who dressed like gang members or to get into a car with a few people who looked liked they were returning home from work, it is fairly obvious that virtually all people would enter the second car.

But, a subway car at 2 AM and gang members are not the issue. That was the picture you posted -- and you said you would give these two the boot for their dress (even if they wore shirts).

Why? What's wrong with it?
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
"Swift generally gets you to the right way much quicker." - auxio -

"The perfect [birth]day -- A little playtime, a good poop, and a long nap." - Tomato Greeting Cards -
post #154 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

You are being very unfair and biased here yourself. You pick my comments out for chastisement, when even a casual perusal of the thread makes it obvious that my remarks are some of the most temperate.

Your also missing the fact that I almost completely agree with you and you with me. Your first paragraph for instance is almost a 1 to 1 paraphrasing of my first comment on the thread.

Maybe you are just making a bad joke but you are putting words in my mouth with your over the top interpretation of the clothing issue and I don't appreciate it.

What I said was that people judge each other and outward appearances like clothing and the way in which a person carries themselves is a big part of that. These are just obvious facts, I'm not trying to make some arcane weird argument here. I was in fact making a distinction between merely wearing baggy clothes and "looking/acting Gangsta"and there is a big difference, and it's pretty obvious to any impartial observer who hasn't been hiding under a rock for the last 20 years.

What I said was that *IF* in fact, these guys were dressed/acting "Gangsta" then they must expect to be treated as if they were in fact dangerous criminals, which is basically the whole point of dressing/acting that way.

To argue against this by posting a humorous picture of a guy in stripes misses the entire point at best. The fact that not all criminals dress/act like criminals, doesn't in any way alter the fact that dressing/acting like a criminal may sometimes get you treated like one. That doesn't even make sense.

I take your point and apologize. Some of the less intelligent comments just don't warrant a reply. Yours did. I replied to Apple ][ and shouldn't have. He sinks himself.
BUT... I REALLY object to the notion that if you dress a certain way you are asking for it. In this day and age people dress in all sorts of ways for all sorts of reasons. I don't like a lot of it but it doesn't, or certainly shouldn't make a blind bit of difference. I have heard this about girls wearing provocative clothing, boys with long hair, girls with short hair, etc etc. For me - the only thing this shows is that people have a lot of stored prejudice and that the fact that when people sometimes dress provocatively this somehow legitimizes the opening of the prejudicial flood gates. The ugliness of the prejudice always takes me by surprise.
You didn't say anything of the sort but you did say that

"*IF* in fact, these guys were dressed/acting "Gangsta" then they must expect to be treated as if they were in fact dangerous criminals, which is basically the whole point of dressing/acting that way. "

The whole point? There are too many degrees of 'gangsta', to make such a claim. I mean how are you supposed to treat a dangerous criminal? Shouldn't you run away and call the law? There are too many variables. What if I am a regular black guy and the guy next to me in the Apple store is hulky redneck. What should my legitimate thoughts be? Should I call the police? Move away?

I accept that some 'looks' will set off alarm bells for some people but what the hell does a dangerous criminal look like. That was the point of the silly cartoon and later the picture of Madoff and his boys. There is no such thing as a 'criminal look'.
post #155 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by paxman View Post

The whole point? There are too many degrees of 'gangsta', to make such a claim. I mean how are you supposed to treat a dangerous criminal? Shouldn't you run away and call the law? There are too many variables. What if I am a regular black guy and the guy next to me in the Apple store is hulky redneck. What should my legitimate thoughts be? Should I call the police? Move away?

I’m imagining someone calling 911 in terror because teenagers are walking around in baggy jeans and hoodies. Oh the humanity!

PS: Whats worse: baggy jeans or those low-cut, skin tight hipster jeans that guys were these days. I’ll go for the baggy jeans and go find myself a belt instead of the sperm-count lowering hipster look. Hipster jeans: where fashion meets birth control.
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
Dick Applebaum on whether the iPad is a personal computer: "BTW, I am posting this from my iPad pc while sitting on the throne... personal enough for you?"
post #156 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dick Applebaum View Post

But, a subway car at 2 AM and gang members are not the issue. That was the picture you posted -- and you said you would give these two the boot for their dress (even if they wore shirts).

Why? What's wrong with it?

Because of the simple fact that they're walking around in their underwear. Almost all stores do have dress codes. You can't enter most places without a shirt or shoes. Dogs and animals aren't allowed in many places. If a store seeks to eject people because they're running around in their underwear, then that's their right.

Hopefully there's a video or some proof or evidence behind these allegations, otherwise it's all speculation of course. I'd love to see exactly what happened in that Apple store.
post #157 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by lamewing View Post

Can you not see and understand exactly what was being said? Clearly he is referring to the folks who wear baggy tops, hoodies to cover their heads, and baggy pants hanging below their asses. I have dealt with folks like this and I am always on "red alert" because this image reminds me of an urban street thug.

Easy to understand since the whole gangsta genre can be a little unsettling to typical white collar types. The whole notion that there are good gangsters is a complete oxymoron.

If you suddenly happen upon a snake while walking down a path, your natural reaction is one of caution. Clearly you understand that only a few kinds of snakes are actually dangerous but the ones that are, can be fatal so it is not unexpected to be extremely concerned or even fearful when you run across one. Likewise when I run across a hoodlum looking character my first evaluation isn't that he is probably a social worker with a masters degree just dressing to fit in with the ghetto where he does his benevolent work.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

Life is too short to drink bad coffee.

post #158 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

How does Old Navy stay business when that is what they sell? They must have to turn away pretty much every customer since theyre all criminals.

PS: I bet I could guess which posters think rap music is 1) should NOT be defined as art or music, 2) is only for blacks, and 3) is only for criminals.

PPS: This thread is absurd. Its like phrenological racism but with fashion: Fashionology?

And, interestingly, phrenology was used to establish the "scientific" basis of racism-- i.e. that treating blacks as subhuman wasn't racist at all-- it was merely the right and appropriate response to their unfortunate condition.

I'm sure some folks here would protest that they would treat a white person with a compromised cranial topography "just the same."
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
post #159 of 213
Quote:
Originally Posted by akirafirestorm View Post

i've come into the applestore thugged out and they treated me with the utmost. I really really doubt it. Money be green. Its a business. If they were looking suspect, this is america and people know that lawsuits happen over nothing so i really doubt it

Good. They better treat you well otherwise they are discriminating based on appearance. It's one thing for a Rolls Royce dealer to look at a client and size them up. The Apple Store should treat all well behaved customers with respect no matter if they are thugged out or not.

The people here disagreeing with that have a screw loose. They are seriously out of date IMO.
post #160 of 213
the Apple employee told them they were not welcome there because of their race.

That sounds like such BS, lol.

I find it kind of hard to believe that the Apple employee went up to those 2 people and basically said, hey, you're not welcome here, because of your race.

But hey, if they think they have any merits to their case, then go for it! If it turns out that the whole thing is a lie or hoax, then the two people who dressed like thugs should get a chance to feel what it's like to be a real criminal, behind bars.
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