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Samsung exec says Apple's claims of copying iPhone design won't be 'legally problematic'

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
The head of Samsung's mobile communications business has said in a new interview that he isn't concerned with legal ramifications from Apple's assertion that Samsung copied the "look and feel" of devices like the iPhone and iPad.

"We didn't copy Apple's design," J.K. Shin said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal. "We have used many similar designs over the past years and it [Apple's allegation] will not be legally problematic."

Shin also reportedly suggested that the scale of the current legal battle with Apple could grow. However, he declined to elaborate.

The courtroom showdown began in April when Apple sued Samsung, charging the South Korean electronics company with copying its devices with products like the Galaxy S, Nexus S, Epic 4G and Galaxy Tab. Samsung quickly fired back, and accused Apple of infringing on patents it owns related to cellphone transmission technologies.

Samsung has been ordered by a California judge to show Apple prototypes of new devices it is working on, and Samsung has requested that it receive an advanced look at Apple's next iPhone and iPad as well. The legal battle ensues even as Apple remains one of the largest customers, of Samsung, which makes processors, displays, memory and more for Apple's mobile devices.

Samsung's own devices, which compete with Apple's iPhone and iPad, are powered by the Google Android mobile operating system. Shin said in his interview with the Journal that Samsung plans to continue to rely on Android with future devices.



Samsung has been working on its own proprietary platform, dubbed Bada, for some time, and it isn't abandoning that software, the company said. But the report also revealed that Samsung is "focusing on Android," particularly in the tablet business where the company hopes to compete with Apple's market-leading iPad.

"When there is a market need for our own software, we will consider it," said Younghee Lee, senior vice president of sales and marketing with Samsung. "But that's not our plan at the moment."
post #2 of 72
all these companies steal from one another. They have very smart snoops to go in and look over patents and designs from other companies all the time. Nothing new. How the hell do you think a company can violate like a dozen patents from a competitor without stealing their sh**?
post #3 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

How the hell do you think a company can violate like a dozen patents from a competitor without stealing their sh**?

Well, according to Apple (and, you know, the law), they can't. Hence the suit.

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post #4 of 72
Inspiring each other is fine, that drives innovation and creates healthy competition.

Some, but not all of Samsung's products cross the line and have become very obvious "copies" of Apple's products.
post #5 of 72
Really? Not "problematic"?

Because the courts have already ordered Samsung to hand over their devices. A determination has already been made that Apple has a case. That's kinda problematic.
post #6 of 72
He reminds me of the astute genius for Creative Labs or RIM's CEO talking out his rear, or the idiots at Motorola and their failed Flash mock campaign.

Samsung truly doesn't grasp the legal foundation Apple holds and the legal staffing Apple has which dwarfs anyone practically across all industries.

I look forward to the parent company of Samsung Mobile rebuking this clown and referring to all lawsuits to their Legal Staffing for further questions.
post #7 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadra 610 View Post

Really? Not "problematic"?

Because the courts have already ordered Samsung to hand over their devices. A determination has already been made that Apple has a case. That's kinda problematic.

Exactly. Just further proof that Samsung has lots of idiot execs who don't see anything wrong in stealing intellectual property. Whether they actually did this has not, of course, been proven, but they are being charged and the court has found that there's a reasonable case.
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post #8 of 72
Why does the Galaxy Tab have a different button layout to the one released in the Apple documents?

I've not seen one with that layout so far, looks odd.
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post #9 of 72
design monkeys can come up with a me too product that doesn't come this come to a complete copy of Apple's products. Unless J. Ivy has a separated at birth twin in Korea this stuff is a big rip off.
post #10 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Exactly. Just further proof that Samsung has lots of idiot execs who don't see anything wrong in stealing intellectual property. Whether they actually did this has not, of course, been proven, but they are being charged and the court has found that there's a reasonable case.

They likely knew it was wrong or that they were walking a line. The issue seems to be, ostensibly, that they figured they could get away with it for long enough to reap a profit before anyone said anything.

This is likely how it goes with IP issues. Just keep doing what you're doing until someone takes notice.

In other words, if there's a problem they'll just tell you to stop and then the courts can figure it out. Nothing personal.
post #11 of 72
"When there is a market need for our own software, we will consider it," said Younghee Lee, senior vice president of sales and marketing with Samsung. "But that's not our plan at the moment."

This just shows the mindset of Samsung execs. The battle is over. It's iOS and possibly, maybe Android for the tablet market. Samsung would face the task of developing its own ecosystem for its own mobile OS, luring developers to it, opening its own app store, just like Apple did. It's too late in my opinion, for yet another mobile OS to enter the market. Even Android is struggling in the tablet market at present.
post #12 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by mdriftmeyer View Post

and the legal staffing Apple has which dwarfs anyone practically across all industries.

Have you actually seen the size of Samsung. It actually crosses most industries. I believe it accounts for over 20% of South Korea's GDP, though have no references. That said, it is a very protected company in south Korea. Now, I'm not saying Apple shouldn't be suing them, in fact I believe they should be. I just think people shouldn't underestimate a company the size of Samsung. Its size really does make Apple look like a start-up.
post #13 of 72
He is hardly likely to say anything else is he?

Even if Samsung are scared stiff the company line will be 'no problem'.
post #14 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jragosta View Post

Exactly. Just further proof that Samsung has lots of idiot execs who don't see anything wrong in stealing intellectual property. Whether they actually did this has not, of course, been proven, but they are being charged and the court has found that there's a reasonable case.

Part of the problem, may be Korean culture and business practices. I get the feeling that they don't have a problem with blatant copying. If you look at their designs over the years, they are always shifting their products designs to mirror whatever the hot devices are in the market. Many of their older phones strongly resembled Nokia devices, others resembled RIM products. Now they copy Apple... It's the way that Samsung does business. Copying isn't an innovation.

The thing with "some" of Samsungs devices, that it's not just one or two little things, it's a lot of things, right down to the packaging that Apple argues that crosses the line and creates confusion in the marketplace. I don't always agree with everything that Apple does, but I tend to agree with them here.

By the same token, if Apple is found guilty of unlawfully using another company's IP, then they need to be held accountable as well. Live by the sword, die by the sword.
post #15 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

Inspiring each other is fine, that drives innovation and creates healthy competition.

Some, but not all of Samsung's products cross the line and have become very obvious "copies" of Apple's products.

the astounding similarities plus the fact that Samsung makes parts for Apple's devices and therefore may have been privy to details in advance is exactly why this hasn't been summarily dismissed. Which means it is 'legally problematic'. If it wasn't, the judge would have tossed the case on day one (cause you know that's the first thing that Samsung asked for)

That possible advance information is likely why the judge is letting Apple's lawyers see Samsung's soon to be announced/released stuff. See if it has any similarities to the iphone 5 for example. There's no way that Samsung can say they were 'inspired' by something that hasn't been publicly released. More like they stole from trade secrets that they had access to due to making parts for the item. Say, for example, if Apple is putting in the curved glass that is now rumored for the next phone. If Samsung as a phone really to go out in the next couple of weeks with that same shape (which means they were producing it well before the rumors started like a week ago), it does not look good.

As for Samsung trying to get access to the iphone 5 and ipad 3. Bogus. Their claims are all software based, ie iOS 5. The judge is likely to see this for what it is and reject it.

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post #16 of 72
Don't understand there are many copycats out there always copy from the others rather than using their brains to design something more innovative products with strong sense of own product identities. Can't believe even some giant US companies also do the same thing.
post #17 of 72
< I just think people shouldn't underestimate a company the size of Samsung. Its size really does make Apple look like a start-up.[/QUOTE]>

suggest you look at the bottom line of apple vs samsung and reconsider your comment that apple looks like a 'start-up'.

apple has more net cash and more yearly profit than samsung. it surely has a better management.
post #18 of 72
This is a prime example of laziness and complacentcy! Honestly I don't like samsung products, never have; they have a cheap feeling, charger ports and cords break easily, TVs suck honestly besides parts I don't think they do a very good job on any off their technology. Google tv, iPad, AppleTV, iPhone and iPods pretty much dominate. I believe this is just Samsung trying to show a poker face, there is no need to keep making products Samsung they always have and always will suck, stick to parts you'll make more $ that way.
post #19 of 72
Apple: Samsung snooped our patents and copied our phone, and we think they're going to do it again. We want to see their next design to show as proof.

Samsung: No, we didn't copy anything. Um, and we want to see Apple's next design, uh, so we can not copy it, too.
post #20 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC_150 View Post

Don't understand there are many copycats out there always copy from the others rather than using their brains to design something more innovative products with strong sense of own product identities. Can't believe even some giant US companies also do the same thing.

It's cheaper to copy someone else's work than it is to innovate.
post #21 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

< I just think people shouldn't underestimate a company the size of Samsung. Its size really does make Apple look like a start-up.

suggest you look at the bottom line of apple vs samsung and reconsider your comment that apple looks like a 'start-up'.

apple has more net cash and more yearly profit than samsung. it surely has a better management.

[/QUOTE]

Nice one .

Agreed.

Samsung and many others exactly copied Apple designs .

So while Samsung and Apple seem to be in this big boy fight I think its all a RUSE!!! .

Apple needs samsung precise production of dozens of needed parts .
Samsung's banks would have a shit fit if they lost apple's multiple billion dollar pre payments .

So why o why have a pissing contest while the world watches in color ?? well 2 reasons i see.
first is apple wants everyone to stop copying every thing they do .This law suit sends a powerful message .
Second and most important is apple has a great way to receive a ....>>> ;large price break .

Don't get me wrong samsung makes great stuff . They simply stepped on steves toes .


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post #22 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bilbo63 View Post

It's cheaper to copy someone else's work than it is to innovate.

Because the market punish innovation. e.g. Kyocera Echo is different, but people just hate it.

Nowadays, consumers are just sheeps, who'd use facebook/twitter/google/amazon etc just because that's what everybody is using. Apple is the only company would can innovate because, unfortunately, that the sheeps also buy Apple products because it's Apple. It's not that Apple's products aren't innovative, but because if your consumer is just some 60-year-old dude who knows very little about technology, anything too different would be confusing. That's why iOS evolves slowly. It has no choice.
post #23 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ezduzit View Post

< I just think people shouldn't underestimate a company the size of Samsung. Its size really does make Apple look like a start-up.

>

suggest you look at the bottom line of apple vs samsung and reconsider your comment that apple looks like a 'start-up'.

apple has more net cash and more yearly profit than samsung. it surely has a better management.[/QUOTE]

Actually, in 2010 Apple had about 14 billion in profits and Samsung 15 billion. In 2010 Apple had about 75 billion net assets whereas in 2009 Samsung had 276 billion. Apple now has an equity of around 60 billion while Samsung in 2009 had 112 billion. But I'm not here to argue that or to defend Samsung; and I probably exaggerated a little when I used the Start-up analogy.

I just want people to understand that Samsung is not just an electronics company, it is a huge conglomerate that is well protected by the Korean Government. The iPhone was held out of Korea for two years by the Government regulators so that Samung had time to enter the market with a competitive phone. Now that's not official obviously, but as a resident of Korea the word on the street is it had nothing to do with wireless incompatibilities. So I think Samsung should have hell sued out of them for copying, as it is ingrained in the culture over here. Just don't assume it will be a walk in the park for Apple.
post #24 of 72
Is it just me or do a lot of cars made by Hyundai resemble other cars made by other car manufacturers as well? With a lot of the same styling cues. Hyundai, like Samsung are both made/designed in South Korea. I think it's an excepted business practice in Korea to see something being preceived as successful and desired by the masses and want to emulate that success for themselves. Is it right they way they go about it, probably not, the courts will decide that in this case. But the market place has proved time and again that there are people willing to buy a copy of a successful original. And the reason is usually based on price.
post #25 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by drobforever View Post

Because the market punish innovation. e.g. Kyocera Echo is different, but people just hate it.

Have you used the Echo yet? It sucks. It's slow, it's ugly, and it feels really cheap in your hand, like the hinges holding the screens together could come apart at any moment.

The market doesn't punish innovation if the innovation is smart, useful, and/or attractive. Apple products are generally a good example of this fact.
post #26 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by lkrupp View Post

"When there is a market need for our own software, we will consider it," said Younghee Lee, senior vice president of sales and marketing with Samsung. "But that's not our plan at the moment."

This just shows the mindset of Samsung execs. The battle is over. It's iOS and possibly, maybe Android for the tablet market. Samsung would face the task of developing its own ecosystem for its own mobile OS, luring developers to it, opening its own app store, just like Apple did. It's too late in my opinion, for yet another mobile OS to enter the market. Even Android is struggling in the tablet market at present.

Bingo! I thought"what a contemptous attitude!" Software is secondary, right? We will just borrow Android for now.

IMO, Apple gets its leverage via great software and great hardware design.

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post #27 of 72
I think this is typical of an early evolution of any new technology not just smart phones. Eventually all smart phones should be basically the same in terms of the controls. An example is the early automobile. There were all kinds of crazy controls with levers and sliders and pull type throttles. It was several years before the industry settled on the current layout of a steering wheel, clutch, gear shift, brake, and throttle pedal. Now you can get into any brand car and just drive it. That is the way smart phones should be. You just pick it up and use it without having to read the manual. So yes, the contacts button and the phone button, etc should look and behave the same on all phones.

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post #28 of 72
Samsung execs don't see an issue. The reason for this narrow view is that these Korean companies were built up on copying each others design and tech. As far as they are conceded this is just doing business.

Once they lose in court for copying Apples trade dress they might come to think differently.
post #29 of 72
I know that many say this is business as usual, but I can't help but think that Apple would be wise to start lining up alternate suppliers. Even better would be to use some of its cash to start a dedicated component manufacturer. Doesn't have to have Apple's name on it, just fund and own it. They could even contract out to supply others to make it self-supporting. Put it in Taiwan where the U.S. has more leverage.
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post #30 of 72
From the sound of a lot of recent rumors, it sounds like Apple is seeking alternative suppliers of certain components.

I wonder how much Apple is looking for alternative suppliers of Samsung components.
post #31 of 72
My last post got me wondering. How much of the process could be robotic? Since labor costs are what drives manufacturing overseas, what if all the labor could be done by machines? Big cost up front, but once in operation, machines don't draw salary or bennies. Small work force to maintain and re-program when required. Pipe dream? Maybe. But Apple has resources to try it out in the U.S. on a proof-of-concept basis for some small but significant component.
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post #32 of 72
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Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I know that many say this is business as usual, but I can't help but think that Apple would be wise to start lining up alternate suppliers. Even better would be to use some of its cash to start a dedicated component manufacturer. Doesn't have to have Apple's name on it, just fund and own it. They could even contract out to supply others to make it self-supporting. Put it in Taiwan where the U.S. has more leverage.

Good Idea.
post #33 of 72
It beats me how Samsung continues to be blatantly shameless of copying Apple.
post #34 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

My last post got me wondering. How much of the process could be robotic? Since labor costs are what drives manufacturing overseas, what if all the labor could be done by machines? Big cost up front, but once in operation, machines don't draw salary or bennies. Small work force to maintain and re-program when required. Pipe dream? Maybe. But Apple has resources to try it out in the U.S. on a proof-of-concept basis for some small but significant component.

I would imagine that almost all the components are manufactured using a high degree of automation. It is the final assembly that is the most difficult to automate. A human has two highly dexterous robotic-like mechanisms which can work in tandem, known as hands. Today's robots just can't match the ability of human hands when it come to complicated motions like assembling iPhones.

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post #35 of 72
Not sure this means they have a case. I believe Samsung has been asked to hand over as yet unreleased prototypes for the court to look at.

I think personally this one will be hard to prove as there are only so many ways you can make a device look that is a a big screen with a button on the front. in just the same way as previous phones with keyboards would equally have some very similar looks.

And as Samsung have been in the mobile game for many many years, they probably have a few patents and I imagine some prior art, which could prove interesting
post #36 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by A Grain of Salt View Post


Actually, in 2010 Apple had about 14 billion in profits and Samsung 15 billion. In 2010 Apple had about 75 billion net assets whereas in 2009 Samsung had 276 billion. Apple now has an equity of around 60 billion while Samsung in 2009 had 112 billion. But I'm not here to argue that or to defend Samsung; and I probably exaggerated a little when I used the Start-up analogy.

Yes, Samsung had $15B in operating profit at end 2010 (but Apple had $18.4B in OP), but the other numbers you quote are completely irrelevant.

Apple had ~$60B in cash at the end of 2010, compared to ~$20B for Samsung. Most importantly, Apple's market cap -- the only relevant measure of a company's financial worth -- is $310B, compared to Samsung's $120B.

You didn't just "....probably exaggerate a little....." You (probably) thought (a little) that people would not notice.
post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster View Post

Is it just me or do a lot of cars made by Hyundai resemble other cars made by other car manufacturers as well? With a lot of the same styling cues. Hyundai, like Samsung are both made/designed in South Korea. I think it's an excepted business practice in Korea to see something being preceived as successful and desired by the masses and want to emulate that success for themselves. Is it right they way they go about it, probably not, the courts will decide that in this case. But the market place has proved time and again that there are people willing to buy a copy of a successful original. And the reason is usually based on price.

Well, if you're going to specifically mention cars, it's not just Hyundai or Koreans... emulating or copying a fashionable design is pretty widespread. Most car designs today owe some design inspiration from Chris Bangle, who was design chief at BMW for many years (see http://www.businessweek.com/autos/au...bangles_l.html and http://www.carmagazine.co.uk/Communi...g/Bangle-blog/). In particular, all the deep, flowing creases and "character lines" stamped into everything from the Audi A7 to the Honda CRZ all came from Bangle's work on cars like the BMW Z4.

It's ironic that Bangle's new gig is to design fashionable smartphones and laptops for...Samsung.

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post #38 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by maccherry View Post

all these companies steal from one another. They have very smart snoops to go in and look over patents and designs from other companies all the time. Nothing new. How the hell do you think a company can violate like a dozen patents from a competitor without stealing their sh**?

I don't think that's a supportable statement at all.
Too broad simplistic of a brush there..
post #39 of 72
You people like to accuse Samsung of "copying" or "ripping" off Apple of their iPhones.

But have failed to realize the REAL copy of the iPhone is here:






The HiPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedster View Post

Is it just me or do a lot of cars made by Hyundai resemble other cars made by other car manufacturers as well? With a lot of the same styling cues. Hyundai, like Samsung are both made/designed in South Korea. I think it's an excepted business practice in Korea to see something being preceived as successful and desired by the masses and want to emulate that success for themselves. Is it right they way they go about it, probably not, the courts will decide that in this case. But the market place has proved time and again that there are people willing to buy a copy of a successful original. And the reason is usually based on price.

It's you and your biased thinking of anything from Korea. The tone of your statements already proves that thought clearly.

This "business practice" isnt exclusive to Korea. Its common to all businesses in all markets (countries).


American way of doing business....

Take the Amazon Kindle for instance.

Amazon launched a new e-book reader. About 4 months after their successful launch and market acceptance, B&N started its own brand of e-book readers called the Nook.

Using your logic, "I think it's an [accepted] business practice in [America] to see something being perceived as succesful and desired by the masses and want to emulate that success for [B&N]".

Are Americans using the same type of "excepted [accepted] business practice" as Koreans? I guess so.

Therefore, this proves that the "excepted [accepted] business practice" isnt exclusive to Korea now is it?

I'd like for you to reply on this one. Lets see how you rebut it. If you can..


More than anything, your post just exposed how ignorant you are of the business world.

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post #40 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galbi View Post

You people



Quote:
like to accuse Samsung of "copying" or "ripping" off Apple of their iPhones.

Because they did.

Quote:
But have failed to realizes the REAL copy of the iPhone is here:

And Apple will get to them all in good time.

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
Reply

Originally Posted by helia

I can break your arm if I apply enough force, but in normal handshaking this won't happen ever.
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