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Apple rumored to release fifth-gen, SIM-less iPhone with 8MP camera by early Aug.

post #1 of 53
Thread Starter 
A new rumor pegs a late July to early August release timeframe for Apple's anticipated fifth-generation iPhone, said to include an 8-megapixel camera and a SIM-less design that will not be a major departure from the current iPhone 4 design.

Citing an anonymous source, Macotakara reported Monday that the next iPhone will have the same form factor as the iPhone 4, and will use an ARM Cortex-A9 processor. The report said it is "not confirmed" whether the new processor will have a single CPU or is dual-core.

The report also said the handset will have an 8-megapixel camera, and a SIM-less design along with 3-4 internal antennas that will allow the device to serve as a "world phone" compatible with both GSM and CDMA networks. That would allow the same hardware to run on both AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S.

The report claims that the device, which will include a Qualcomm chipset, will be released at the end of July or in early August. While later than usual, that release date would be sooner than the fiscal 2012 claim the same site made back in March.

Finally, the report claims that Apple's next "major new handset" will arrive in the spring of 2012. A spring release for a so-called "iPhone 6" was previously suggested in April, in a Japanese newspaper report that said Apple had selected Sharp to create next-generation low-temperature poly-silicon LCD displays for a thinner and lighter design.

The details in Monday's latest report restate rumors that have previously swirled. Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo with Concord Securities told AppleInsider in April that the next iPhone will feature "slight modifications" from its predecessor, including a new 8-megapixel rear camera. Other reports have suggested the next-generation iPhone will include both CDMA and GSM radios, making it a world phone.

As for the SIM-less design, last week the CEO of carrier Orange said that Apple will introduce a new, smaller and thinner SIM card in its next-generation iPhone. There were reports last year that Apple was working on an embedded SIM design that would allow users to select a carrier and service plan directly from their iPhone, but it was claimed that those plans upset carriers who felt they could be marginalized by such a move.

Picture quality on the new iPhone is also expected to be improved with a separate component for an improved LED flash. Various reports, including one earlier Tuesday, have suggested the flash will be moved farther from the camera lens to reduce red eye.

Last December, Macotakara correctly reported that Apple's second-generation iPad would have a smaller bezel, a flat back panel, and a larger speaker. The site also revealed that Apple was planning an event to announced the iPad 2 in March.
post #2 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new rumor pegs a late July to early August release timeframe for Apple's anticipated fifth-generation iPhone, said to include an 8-megapixel camera and a SIM-less design that will not be a major departure from the current iPhone 4 design....

I would say that the "SIM-less" part makes no sense and without that, this is the exact same as every rumour we've heard so far with the exception of the date being (slightly) sooner.
post #3 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new rumor pegs a late July to early August release timeframe for Apple's anticipated fifth-generation iPhone, said to include an 8-megapixel camera and a SIM-less design that will not be a major departure from the current iPhone 4 design.

Citing an anonymous source, Macotakara reported Monday that the next iPhone will have the same form factor as the iPhone 4, and will use an ARM Cortex-A9 processor. The report said it is "not confirmed" whether the new processor will have a single CPU or is dual-core.

Is this saying it will not use the A5?

Quote:
As for the SIM-less design, last week the CEO of carrier Orange said that Apple will introduce a new, smaller and thinner SIM card in its next-generation iPhone. There were reports last year that Apple was working on an embedded SIM design that would allow users to select a carrier and service plan directly from their iPhone, but it was claimed that those plans upset carriers who felt they could be marginalized by such a move.

Imagine that, marginalizing the carriers! I'll vote for that...
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post #4 of 53
I can see Apple leading the way as far as a "world phone!" Makes sense.
post #5 of 53
"The report said it is "not confirmed" whether the new processor will have a single CPU or is dual-core."

Dual core CPU's are still single CPU's. Dual CPU's are different, that means two separate dies.

/pedant

Anywho, I can't see how it would be anything but the A5, lower clocked/throttled more in the iPhone like the A4 was in the last one perhaps.
post #6 of 53
What the carriers don't want you to know is that it's consumers that buy phones, not carriers and with Apple's vastly expanded retail presence (including online), carriers 'pushing' the phone won't matter much.
The only thing Apple can't afford to lose is subsidies, but even if the phone can choose it's own carrier, in the short run contracts will still exist and so subsidies will too.
post #7 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipoo View Post

Anywho, I can't see how it would be anything but the A5, lower clocked/throttled more in the iPhone like the A4 was in the last one perhaps.

Hopefully Apple doesn't get clever and decide to increase yield on the A5 by fusing off processing cores that don't work thus creating "single-core" A5s for the iPhone...
post #8 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

Hopefully Apple doesn't get clever and decide to increase yield on the A5 by fusing off processing cores that don't work thus creating "single-core" A5s for the iPhone...

I think they can do that with software/firmware.
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post #9 of 53
A lot of the tip-offs about new iPhones seem to come from the cases being leaked by the factory. I guess if the 4S has the same form factor as the 4, it would explain why there could have been no leak up to now but a new phone still coming.
post #10 of 53
Verizon is moving to GSM. Slow no doubt - but true. Apple is going to work on and bring a whole new chipset they will need support? Sorry. No. The transition Apple is dancing with now is get Verizon users into iPhone, and until then - Apple will dance. But when Verizon goes GSM - Apple is perfectly ready NOW.

This article make no sense.
post #11 of 53
I think the SIM-less design makes sense if Apple can get carriers to sign off on it. Apple needs to persuade carriers that it can do a better job selling iPhones than they can. They may have done that. What could be very disruptive is if Apple can sell the iPhone at a fixed price - say $199 - and get carriers to subsidise based on the number of customers Apple is sending their way rather than on a per phone basis. Then a customer can just select the plan that's best for them straight from their phone. That might mean lowering margins but might also mean selling a hell of a lot more phones.
post #12 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bageljoey View Post

Is this saying it will not use the A5?

It's saying it will be Cortex-A9, just like the A5 in the iPad 2.

From what I understand it would be behoove Apple to use two cores and then under-clock the device than to use one core at a higher clock speed.
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post #13 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

Verizon is moving to GSM. Slow no doubt - but true. Apple is going to work on and bring a whole new chipset they will need support? Sorry. No. The transition Apple is dancing with now is get Verizon users into iPhone, and until then - Apple will dance. But when Verizon goes GSM - Apple is perfectly ready NOW.

This article make no sense.

China's largest carrier uses CDMA technology, and it's a BIG market over there.
post #14 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

China's largest carrier uses CDMA technology, and it's a BIG market over there.

I have no idea how or why this fallacy keeps getting pushed around these forums. China Mobile, with 610,000,000 subscribers, uses GSM for '2G' and a homegrown '3G' and 4G' based on 3GPP standard WCDMA(HS*PA) and LTE, known as TD-SCDMA and TD-LTE , respectively,
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post #15 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof. Peabody View Post

I would say that the "SIM-less" part makes no sense.

More space for internal components, fewer ports/cleaner-looking device, no need to swap out small pieces of plastic when abroad.

The "e-SIM" could work similarly to the current system where you can simply select a roaming-carrier from settings (although I believe this feature might not be present in the US).
post #16 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

Verizon is moving to GSM. Slow no doubt - but true. Apple is going to work on and bring a whole new chipset they will need support? Sorry. No. The transition Apple is dancing with now is get Verizon users into iPhone, and until then - Apple will dance. But when Verizon goes GSM - Apple is perfectly ready NOW.

This article make no sense.

Poor argument.

The only question is the comparison between the costs of supporting two separate phones, as they do now, vs one world mode phone. The numbers will determine which they do, not some terrible logic about Apple not wasting their time dealing with Verizon, since they already showed that it was worth it to spend special effort to work with CDMA providers.
post #17 of 53
Just wonder, what does the A and the number mean? At first I thought it was Apple then the generation of the chip (like the G series in G3, G4, G5) but if they go from A5 to A9, surely that's not the case?
post #18 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

China's largest carrier uses CDMA technology, and it's a BIG market over there.

This.

People, on this forum, need to get over their American fixation. The main reason to go world phone is China. But anyway, it would reduce the manufacturing costs.

It would also reduce travelling costs for people who travel to these places, if they can get a simless iPhone, and put whatever they want in.
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post #19 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Just wonder, what does the A and the number mean? At first I thought it was Apple then the generation of the chip (like the G series in G3, G4, G5) but if they go from A5 to A9, surely that's not the case?

A5 is an Apple code name, A9 is an ARM code name. The names are not related. The chips, of course, are.
post #20 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman View Post

Just wonder, what does the A and the number mean? At first I thought it was Apple then the generation of the chip (like the G series in G3, G4, G5) but if they go from A5 to A9, surely that's not the case?

The  A4 is a custom 800mhz/1Ghz ARM Cortex A8 combined with a PowerVR GPU.
The  A5 is PoP SoC Dual core 1Ghz Cortex A9, also with a PowerVR GPU.
post #21 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

More space for internal components, fewer ports/cleaner-looking device, no need to swap out small pieces of plastic when abroad.

Nothing like being tied into a provider and their horribly expensive roaming charges, when everyone else can purchase a cheap local prepay sim...
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post #22 of 53
SO, we'll assume no 4G capability until the next phone "in the spring of 2012"

I might have to nurse my 3GS along a little longer and wait for the 'REALLY' new Apple iPhone.
post #23 of 53
You may have to wait until 2013. Who knows. 4G will matter when it is a major concern outside of one carrier in the US, and one which has patchy coverage at best.

Apple doesn't have many models - so they are not going to waste component costs, or space in the prime model with 4G if it is irrelvent to most people. They may create a top end model with 4G, at a premium some day, but it will not be the standard iPhone. I asssume they will also have cheap iPhone models as well. However, if they keep to one release a year, it wont happen next year.
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post #24 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I have no idea how or why this fallacy keeps getting pushed around these forums. China Mobile, with 610,000,000 subscribers, uses GSM for '2G' and a homegrown '3G' and 4G' based on 3GPP standard WCDMA(HS*PA) and LTE, known as TD-SCDMA and TD-LTE , respectively,

From what I understand, you're right, the iPhone works on China Mobile's network in 2G mode, but it's too slow for data transfer, so until Apple releases a LTE iPhone, it could release a China Mobile compatible CDMA iPhone to get 3G speeds. If that's true, then it would be bad for its image if other phones can utilize 3G speeds for things like video chat and the iPhone can't because it is limited by 2G speeds.
post #25 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe hs View Post

More space for internal components, fewer ports/cleaner-looking device, no need to swap out small pieces of plastic when abroad. ...

I should have been clearer, what I meant was that it makes no sense to just eliminate the SIM card in the upcoming model. It would make more sense to have an integrated one, but with a SIM slot for emergencies or areas where the integrated one won't work (at least for a couple of generations).

If the selling point of the next iPhone (or one of them) is that it is a "world phone" then going with a SIM-less one would seem to be an awkward way to go.
post #26 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by meofcourse View Post

Verizon is moving to GSM. Slow no doubt - but true. Apple is going to work on and bring a whole new chipset they will need support? Sorry. No. The transition Apple is dancing with now is get Verizon users into iPhone, and until then - Apple will dance. But when Verizon goes GSM - Apple is perfectly ready NOW.

This article make no sense.

From what I understand Verizon is only switching to LTE which is a gsm based technology. There not actually switching there CDMA network to gsm. Though apples done said they will not utilize any 4G chips until a smaller more efficient chip is developed. So how is apple dancing around Verizon? When apple brought the iPhone to Verizon, Verizon actually attempted to load it with bloatware and put their "Verizon" stamp on the phone in the negotiating process. Which apple rejected and Verizon accepted. So that makes me wonder how is apple dancing around Verizon? The only thing I can grasp from them putting in a world chip (for CDMA and GSM networks) is so they can tap into a larger customer base. Which is a very good business move. I just fail to see how their dancing around with verizon that's all!

BTW: I have a Verizon iPhone and I'm glad apple taped into that customer base this is my first apple product and I just love it!
post #27 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by OriginalG View Post

From what I understand, you're right, the iPhone works on China Mobile's network in 2G mode, but it's too slow for data transfer, so until Apple releases a LTE iPhone, it could release a China Mobile compatible CDMA iPhone to get 3G speeds. If that's true, then it would be bad for its image if other phones can utilize 3G speeds for things like video chat and the iPhone can't because it is limited by 2G speeds.

  1. As previously stated China Mobile doesn't have CDMA.

  2. CDMA isn't '3G', it's 2G' voice-only. You need CDMA2000 if you want data.

    • China Mobile: GSM (GPRS, EDGE), TD-SCDMA (TD-HSDPA), TD-LTE ≈ 610 million subscribers.
    • China Unicom: GSM (GPRS, EDGE), W-CDMA (UMTS, HSDPA, HSUPA, HSPA+) ≈ 175 million subscribers.
    • China Telecom: CDMA, CDMA2000 (EV-DO) ≈ 100 million subscribers.

Maybe China Mobile still owns and controls some CDMA networks but I thought China's plan was to split the technologies into the 3 distinct setups as you see above, which the only true overlap between China Mobile and Unicom when it comes to GSM '2G'.
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post #28 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by winterspan View Post

Hopefully Apple doesn't get clever and decide to increase yield on the A5 by fusing off processing cores that don't work thus creating "single-core" A5s for the iPhone...

Apple always revealed the clock speed of the processor in the iPad but not the iPhone 4, and benchmarks confirmed it was slower clocked or at least throttled more. I guess they could conceivably do what you said and not tell anyone, I really hope they don't though. Something to watch for.
post #29 of 53
Cough, bullshit.

Nuff said.
post #30 of 53
Imagine what would happen if Apple creates a sim-less card and secretly starts building out a cellular network or IP network. Imagine if you could buy the phone from Apple and get your cellular and data (or all data IP package for $70/mo).

Now imagine Apple gets 30 million people to sign up. This is 30 million phones at $200 each so $6 billion dollars + $2.1 billion per month in cash flow. Do you think Apple would piss off the carriers to increase their profits by a huge margin? In the words of Sarah Palin, "you betcha"!



Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

A new rumor pegs a late July to early August release timeframe for Apple's anticipated fifth-generation iPhone, said to include an 8-megapixel camera and a SIM-less design that will not be a major departure from the current iPhone 4 design.

Citing an anonymous source, Macotakara reported Monday that the next iPhone will have the same form factor as the iPhone 4, and will use an ARM Cortex-A9 processor. The report said it is "not confirmed" whether the new processor will have a single CPU or is dual-core.

The report also said the handset will have an 8-megapixel camera, and a SIM-less design along with 3-4 internal antennas that will allow the device to serve as a "world phone" compatible with both GSM and CDMA networks. That would allow the same hardware to run on both AT&T and Verizon networks in the U.S.

The report claims that the device, which will include a Qualcomm chipset, will be released at the end of July or in early August. While later than usual, that release date would be sooner than the fiscal 2012 claim the same site made back in March.

Finally, the report claims that Apple's next "major new handset" will arrive in the spring of 2012. A spring release for a so-called "iPhone 6" was previously suggested in April, in a Japanese newspaper report that said Apple had selected Sharp to create next-generation low-temperature poly-silicon LCD displays for a thinner and lighter design.

The details in Monday's latest report restate rumors that have previously swirled. Analyst Ming-Chi Kuo with Concord Securities told AppleInsider in April that the next iPhone will feature "slight modifications" from its predecessor, including a new 8-megapixel rear camera. Other reports have suggested the next-generation iPhone will include both CDMA and GSM radios, making it a world phone.

As for the SIM-less design, last week the CEO of carrier Orange said that Apple will introduce a new, smaller and thinner SIM card in its next-generation iPhone. There were reports last year that Apple was working on an embedded SIM design that would allow users to select a carrier and service plan directly from their iPhone, but it was claimed that those plans upset carriers who felt they could be marginalized by such a move.

Picture quality on the new iPhone is also expected to be improved with a separate component for an improved LED flash. Various reports, including one earlier Tuesday, have suggested the flash will be moved farther from the camera lens to reduce red eye.

Last December, Macotakara correctly reported that Apple's second-generation iPad would have a smaller bezel, a flat back panel, and a larger speaker. The site also revealed that Apple was planning an event to announced the iPad 2 in March.
post #31 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by roocka View Post

Imagine what would happen if Apple creates a sim-less card and secretly starts building out a cellular network or IP network. Imagine if you could buy the phone from Apple and get your cellular and data (or all data IP package for $70/mo).

Now imagine Apple gets 30 million people to sign up. This is 30 million phones at $200 each so $6 billion dollars + $2.1 billion per month in cash flow. Do you think Apple would piss off the carriers to increase their profits by a huge margin? In the words of Sarah Palin, "you betcha"!

Now, imagine a product category where Apple undercuts its competitors despite having a higher cost structure than they do. Imagine Apple in a business where margins are below 40%. Below 40%? How about below 20%!

Can't imagine that? That's because it doesn't exist, nor will it.
post #32 of 53
Small SIM. Embedded SIM. SIM-less.

IPhone 5, 4S, 6.

This must be quite frustrating for Samsung. They can't wait until Apple makes up its mind so that they know what to properly copy.
post #33 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by roocka View Post

Imagine what would happen if Apple creates a sim-less card and secretly starts building out a cellular network or IP network. Imagine if you could buy the phone from Apple and get your cellular and data (or all data IP package for $70/mo).

Now imagine Apple gets 30 million people to sign up. This is 30 million phones at $200 each so $6 billion dollars + $2.1 billion per month in cash flow. Do you think Apple would piss off the carriers to increase their profits by a huge margin? In the words of Sarah Palin, "you betcha"!

Won't happen. This sort of fantasy only makes sense if you think the only market that matters is the US. But Apple knows the US will be secondary to China and soon also to India. Building a phone and its own network, even if it works, is a strategy for the US only and therefore not worth the investment. After all, Apple is not going to create a world wide network.
post #34 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by stelligent View Post

Won't happen. This sort of fantasy only makes sense if you think the only market that matters is the US. But Apple knows the US will be secondary to China and soon also to India. Building a phone and its own network, even if it works, is a strategy for the US only and therefore not worth the investment. After all, Apple is not going to create a world wide network.

Even then it doesn't make sense. Apple is all about keeping the highest value-added part of the product for themselves, and allowing others to perform the lower profit activities. There's not a snowball's chance in hell they ever try to provide telephone services.
post #35 of 53
Orange, the second largest retailer of the iphone in the world, just negotiated with Apple to change to a smaller SIM and not an E-SIM.

Of course you can read about that in the normal press where they don't bother with the dribble that this nonsense article is based on.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/digitaltrend...rnextgeniphone
post #36 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by K.C. View Post

Orange, the second largest retailer of the iphone in the world, just negotiated with Apple to NOT change to a non-standard SIM for a couple of years.

Of course you can read about that in the normal press where they don't bother with the dribble that this nonsense article is based on.

I thought I read that Apple worked with Orange to create a smaller SIM standard.
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post #37 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I thought I read that Apple worked with Orange to create a smaller SIM standard.

That doesn't contradict what he said. If Apple and Orange (wait, I just realized the humor of that pairing...) are working to create a new SIM standard, then if Apple changes to it, it won't be a change to a "non-standard" SIM.

Here's hoping the collaboration is more like this:



and less like this:

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post #38 of 53
Rumors come and go and besides the iPhone 4 being caught in a German bar in Palo Alto CA, most other rumors have been proven to be baloney.

8MP camera. This higher megapixel the better picture stupidity will never go away. Optics and sensor are almost never talked about yet those make all the difference in picture quality.

If there is an iPhone 4S I think I will sit it out till 5 comes out
post #39 of 53
Quote:
SO, we'll assume no 4G capability until the next phone "in the spring of 2012". I might have to nurse my 3GS along a little longer and wait for the 'REALLY' new Apple iPhone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdasd View Post

You may have to wait until 2013. Who knows. 4G will matter when it is a major concern outside of one carrier in the US, and one which has patchy coverage at best.

2013... Gosh, I am running my EVO 4G since mid 2010 currently registering 10.6 mbps data speeds.

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post #40 of 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallest Skil View Post

That doesn't contradict what he said. If Apple and Orange (wait, I just realized the humor of that pairing...) are working to create a new SIM standard, then if Apple changes to it, it won't be a change to a "non-standard" SIM.

Here's hoping the collaboration is more like this:



and less like this:


That's great! Nicely done.
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