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Intel's new 'Ultrabook' design to compete with Apple's iPad, MacBook Air - Page 2

post #41 of 67
Perl 6! Whenever it gets here!

Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

There's no such thing as a 'perfect programming language'
post #42 of 67
No point in declaring that something or other is the future unless everybody else joins the party. Well, looks like everybody else is joining the party.

This is a no-brainer. No one complains that laptops run too many programs, are too fast, etc. The complaints have been too much weight and not enough battery life. The response the rest of the computer industry came up with was the netbook. Apple has countered with the iPad and the Air.

The netbook addressed the issue of too heavy but battery life was still an issue and with cramped keyboards, weak processors, etc. is it any wonder that Aople's response has met with greater success.

Basically Apple is trying to address shortcomings while not creating new problems, taking the high road with devices that are more upscale in feel and price whereas the competition has done what it has always done, offered inferior devices whose main selling point is lower initial cost of ownership.

I hope that some compelling products do come to market on the PC side. That will motivate Apple to offer as much value as possible. At the moment it's like shooting fish in a barrel for Apple.

In a way, I think that Jobs would get more of a kick out of the entire personal computing space going in a positive direction than out of simply continuing to accumulate that much more wealth. Fabulously wealthy individuals are a dime a dozen but doing something positive that will be remembered for generations to come, now that's really something. I believe that the name Steve Jobs will resonate long after the Conrad Blacks of the world have been all but forgotten.
post #43 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by digitalclips View Post

I guess Apple will think twice about working 'closely' with Intel in the future.

I'm sure Apple takes it as a sign that the MacBook Air is on the right track.
Any good design is going to be copied.

"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

John C. Dvorak, 2007
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"Apple should pull the plug on the iPhone."

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post #44 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Fair enough, I suppose. I'd only say that Objective C imposes it's complexity even when I'm doing simple things.

Whereas with a language like C++, which is also a complex language, I can usually avoid the complexity unless I'm doing complex things (like the features in STL or writing code that can execute faster than FORTRAN or even hand-crafted assembly language).

If you try to solve complex problems, you usually end up writing complex code . But I agree that there are some strange things about Objective-C that may appear unfamiliar if you're coming from a different language, but once you get the hang of it, it's actually much easier than C++. Right now, I have about 10 years of professional C++ experience (and quite a few more dicking around with it as a hobby), and I still don't dare call myself an expert C++ programmer (they are rare) since there are so ridiculously many pitfalls if you really start to push the envelope with C++ and use all of it's language features (think template metaprogramming, exception handling in multithreaded code, templated lambda functions, moving your code between different compilers and operating systems, or even stuff that looks deceptively easy at first sight but will bite you in the ass later on, such as custom datatypes with overloaded operators). In contrast, Objective-C literally took me 2 weeks to learn, and by that time I already felt pretty confident I could write about anything in it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by z3rO

Perl 6! Whenever it gets here!

Please don't get me started on Perl, we'll be here debating it the rest of the week, I try to avoid Perl like the plague because it's pure evil

Anyway, I think this topic was about Intel's Ultrabook strategy, so I'll leave it here with my treatise on programming languages
post #45 of 67
Looks sexy and does looks like the MBA but I can't see how Apple could sue for the tapered design. It's not as blatant as what Samsung did. It's like comparing latent fingerprints to a criminal at a crime scene, you can know they were there but without points for comparison they are gonna walk.
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post #46 of 67
After the iPad debacle (as seen from everyone but Apple's pov) I think we can expect a more rapid copying process of all things Apple. (It looks to me like the depicted Asus even has a Thunderbolt port.)

I suspect that for Apple the marketing emphasis will increasingly be on the differentiating factor - the OS and services. The Apple hardware is clearly a cut above the competition both in terms of design and detailing / quality, but as manufacturers copy Apple's minimalist look, there is less and less to differentiate (at least in the all important marketing)

I don't know Asus products well, but having tried both an Asus netbook and an Asus laptop I must say that those products oozed cheapness and were horrible to operate. Their trackpads and buttons were awkward and non responsive.
post #47 of 67
this has the stench of solid plastic and windows. and what "Intel" store do I buy one in? And what 3rd world company is Asus?

What a sorry joke.
post #48 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by gescom View Post

Exactly! Just like Apple visionaries with the MacBook Air - a complete Sony Vaio 2003 ripoff.

You don't know about design, do you?
post #49 of 67

The design of those two are a world apart.
post #50 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by nicolbolas View Post

well, how about you look up your own info about the Sony VAIO X505.... i wish this wasn't true.... Apple deserves to have actually created a product like that, but alas.

Um. No.
post #51 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by magicj View Post

Fair enough, I suppose. I'd only say that Objective C imposes it's complexity even when I'm doing simple things.

Whereas with a language like C++, which is also a complex language, I can usually avoid the complexity unless I'm doing complex things (like the features in STL or writing code that can execute faster than FORTRAN or even hand-crafted assembly language).

The complexibility allows for more flexibility and the things you can consider complex become less so with use of the language... I like those things about Objective-C and also why I like using frameworks for simpiler languages like PHP.

And the names "Java" and "Cocoa" are related, Cocoa got its name from being an oppositional framework to Java on OS X.
post #52 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by res08hao View Post

this has the stench of solid plastic and windows. and what "Intel" store do I buy one in? And what 3rd world company is Asus?

What a sorry joke.

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/hin...d-hp-lose/6991

ASUS has been right there with Apple in terms of reliability for a few years now. They're a good company and generally manufacture solid devices at reasonable prices.
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post #53 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/hin...d-hp-lose/6991

ASUS has been right there with Apple in terms of reliability for a few years now. They're a good company and generally manufacture solid devices at reasonable prices.

I agree.
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post #54 of 67

Yes the wedge design has been done by both HP and Sony previously, but neither unit was a strong contender due to design compromises and performance issues that Apple was able to successfully side-step. The Sony (as has been noted previously) was a flexible nickel/carbon graphite case with a huge rear hinge, running a Pentium M processor with a whopping 90 minutes of battery life at a cool $3000. So superficially, yeah there were some wedgies out there prior to the MBA. But they weren't in the same class then and certainly aren't now.

FWIW, Intel routinely benchmarks a reference model for the PC makers, this is no different than before. But just because they benchmark it, doesn't mean it will be a) succesfully executed, b)popular, or c) a direct competitor to the MBA. Remember, Apple is a forward looking company and this reference design reflects current designwork most likely already supplanted on Apple's benches by someting even more interesting.

Case shapes are problematic - most designs reflect the current component reality in terms of size and shape. Most PC makers don't use custom logic board designs like Apple, opting for the more familiar motherboard design which is easier to assemble in quantity and cheaper to fab.
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post #55 of 67
Asus really seem to be taking a different route of high quality while being affordable. They have a hands-on comparison with the MBA here:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/a...-cpu-video-ha/

They also have the phone/tablet idea:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/a...unced-padfone/

and obviously the high quality Asus Transformer. The problem I can see immediately is trying to sell both the netbook/tablet and phone/tablet.

They seem to fear making a tablet that is only a tablet.

Anyway, at least we know what's possible for the MBA refresh and Intel are going their ULV route:

http://www.engadget.com/2011/05/30/i...es-law-defyin/

Dropping power by 50% allows Macbook Pro performance in a MBA size. Definitely able to replace the Macbook and it spells good things for the MBP too. Mac Pro performance at under 15W.
post #56 of 67
And to give ASUS a few more well-deserved props (IMHO), I've seen more than one reference to at least some of Apple's motherboards coming from them.
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post #57 of 67
Wow, do a little Google searching and you never know what you find. There's probably some here who already had seen this "back in the day", but I'd never before run across ASUS leaking the iPad a couple years before it actually shipped.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/laptops/appl...asus-49293967/
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post #58 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by zunx View Post

Hopefully, a really ultraportable MacBook Air soon: 400 to 600 g and 7-inch. The Mac in your pocket. Always.

Nope IMO 5-inch is the largest I would consider a pocket device. The 7-inch BB PlayBook is too large, but the Sony 5-inch eBook reader fits my pocket.

For now the iPhone is my lovely pocket computer.
For any serious computer activity, IMO at least 10" screen is necessary.
post #59 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gatorguy View Post

http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/hin...d-hp-lose/6991

ASUS has been right there with Apple in terms of reliability for a few years now. They're a good company and generally manufacture solid devices at reasonable prices.

I bet they produce their cheap products in some darkened hovel in china....
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #60 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Pundits expressed skepticism at the new Ultrabook design, calling it a "makeover" of the struggling netbook category.

No they didn't, the 'pundits' called it a makeover of "conventional laptop PCs"

That can potentially include netbooks, depends on how much you see netbooks as 'conventional'

laptops, ultrabooks, netbooks, notbooks, weeeee

With hte new silicon, and once we get to 2013, there is going to be some shiny apple products that are high in power, last ages, and yet dont weigh as much as a normal macbookpro.
Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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Household: MacBook, iPad 16gb wifi, iPad 64gb wifi, iPad Mini 32gb, coming iPhone 5S, iPhone 4S 32gb, iPhone 32gb, iPod Touch 4th gen x1, iPod nano 16gb gen 5 x2, iPod nano gen 3 8gb, iPod classic...
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post #61 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by kotatsu View Post

I know, what a blatant copy. It has a screen, a keyboard, and it's even quite thin! Those scurrilous dogs, Apple should sue the pants off them.

The only asthetic design differences are the finish and the lack of an indented front bezel.
Your statement of mockery applies more towards those comparing that vaio to the MBA.

What a riot watching the guy demonstrating how difficult it is to open! HA!!
post #62 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider View Post

Intel also highlighted its accelerated roadmap for upcoming versions of the Atom processor, which is designed for tablets, netbooks and smartphones. According to the company's statement, "the Atom processor will outpace Moore's Law, accelerating from 32nm through 22nm to 14nm within 3 successive years."

So they can't release 14nm now why
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post #63 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by fecklesstechguy View Post

Yes the wedge design has been done by both HP and Sony previously, but neither unit was a strong contender due to design compromises and performance issues that Apple was able to successfully side-step. The Sony (as has been noted previously) was a flexible nickel/carbon graphite case with a huge rear hinge, running a Pentium M processor with a whopping 90 minutes of battery life at a cool $3000. So superficially, yeah there were some wedgies out there prior to the MBA. But they weren't in the same class then and certainly aren't now.

I don't see how it's a fair comparison to compare something that was built in 2004 vs 2008. The technology (processor, cooling methods, battery technology, etc...) in 2008 leapfrogged by many folds compared to 2004. The processor architecture change from Pentium M to Core 2 was nothing short of magical. Everything got smaller, cheaper, faster, and more efficient (less heat = less cooling required). The Sony X505 was the true innovator prior with the tampered design. And yes, I agree, Apple designed a beautiful hinge.
post #64 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinN206 View Post

I don't see how it's a fair comparison to compare something that was built in 2004 vs 2008. The technology (processor, cooling methods, battery technology, etc...) in 2008 leapfrogged by many folds compared to 2004. The processor architecture change from Pentium M to Core 2 was nothing short of magical. Everything got smaller, cheaper, faster, and more efficient (less heat = less cooling required). The Sony X505 was the true innovator prior with the tampered design. And yes, I agree, Apple designed a beautiful hinge.

A mobile device isn't just a collection of parts. It's an intricate system of tradeoffs-- price, weight, durability, battery life, aesthetics, performance, ergonomics, etc.

You can sell super advanced designs if you don't care about price. You can make very powerful, very light laptops if you don't care about battery life. You can make amazingly inexpensive stuff if you don't care about quality or durability. You can make bullet proof devices if that's your number one priority.

What Apple did with the current Air is successfully balance performance, cost, battery life, design, ergonomics and materials to create the most appealing notebook of its kind to date.

People seem to think that this kind of design integration somehow doesn't count as innovation, but it really does. It involves a vast array of material and design technology, and it involves judgements regarding what the market will support and when the available technology is robust enough to meet the design criteria.

You can always point to a competitor to an Apple product, or a historical antecedent, and note various advantages on one or two counts, but that misses the point. You have to judge Apple's stuff in their entirety, and by that criteria they have some of the best stuff out there. And the way they're achieving that-- from their design philosophy to discipline in the face of feature creep to how they build on platforms through carefully controlled iteration-- is genuinely innovative.
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post #65 of 67
Wow.... another copy cat trying to reinvent the brick by reinventing the brick.

Is there ANYONE????????? in the PC world capable of actually doing something original?

I swear, if you're a windows lover it somehow manages to infect your brain with a disease called, Unoriginalcopyitus.

I'm sure it will do really well, just like the Zune......LOL
post #66 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by matrix07 View Post

Um. No.

Hahahaha! +1
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post #67 of 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by d-range View Post

was actually a brilliant move typical of Apple: don't just go with the flow, but pick whatever you think is best and let the world wrap their heads around it, they will eventually find out the reasons behind your choices.

Excellent observation!

It's what makes the "walled garden" protests from the technical elites so amusing. That they totally and completely miss the point while it obviously being the central point of iOS's success is just fascinating to watch.

Apple passing Microsoft and Intel's combined market cap is also fun to watch them try to rationalize
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