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post #201 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


Yeah, because that's what socialists do... you know, uh... favor the rich. 1rolleyes.gif Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

 

Is that some kind of an argument? Some kind of refutation of what I said?

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post #202 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah, because that's what socialists do... you know, uh... favor the rich. 1rolleyes.gif Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

Is that some kind of an argument? Some kind of refutation of what I said?
Absolutely. You called Obama a socialist then accused him of favoring the rich.
post #203 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


Absolutely. You called Obama a socialist then accused him of favoring the rich.

 

Yes I did. And nothing you said refuted that.

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post #204 of 235
A "corporatist socialist" is actually what you said! lol.gif

You know like a fascist anarchist, or a communist capitalist, or a Muslim atheist! lol.gif
post #205 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

A "corporatist socialist" is actually what you said! lol.gif

You know like a fascist anarchist, or a communist capitalist, or a Muslim anarchist! lol.gif

 

Uh huh. Well, if you don't understand, just say so.

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post #206 of 235
Oh I understand, all right. Just like I understand this.
post #207 of 235
Is it socialism, or is it corporatism that you're unclear about. You do understand that they are mutually exclusive opposites, right?
post #208 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh I understand, all right.

 

All evidence to the contrary.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Just like I understand this.

 

 

1confused.gif

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post #209 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Is it socialism, or is it corporatism that you're unclear about. You do understand that they are mutually exclusive opposites, right?

 

Oh I see now. You're operating under a misapprehension of the facts. These are not exclusive opposites. That's where your confusion is. You're welcome.

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post #210 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Oh I understand, all right.

All evidence to the contrary.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Just like I understand this.


1confused.gif
lol.gif
post #211 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


lol.gif

 

What? What does Mitt Romney have to do with this discussion? This appears to be another diversionary tactic of yours.

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post #212 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Is it socialism, or is it corporatism that you're unclear about. You do understand that they are mutually exclusive opposites, right?

Oh I see now. You're operating under a misapprehension of the facts. These are not exclusive opposites. That's where your confusion is. You're welcome.
Riight. Never mind then. 1wink.gif
post #213 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

lol.gif

What? What does Mitt Romney have to do with this discussion? This appears to be another diversionary tactic of yours.
You clearly didn't watch the clip.
post #214 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


You clearly didn't watch the clip.

 

No I didn't. Why would/should I? I saw Mitt Romney and turned it off. I don't care about him or what he has to say. I expected a waste of my time.

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post #215 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


Riight. Never mind then. 1wink.gif

 

Good then.

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post #216 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You clearly didn't watch the clip.

No I didn't. Why would/should I? I saw Mitt Romney and turned it off. I don't care about him or what he has to say. I expected a waste of my time.
The clip wasn't about mitt Romney or anything about what he has to say.
post #217 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post


The clip wasn't about mitt Romney or anything about what he has to say.

 

OK. So it's about some random Mitt Romney supporters have to say. I still fail to see any relevance here. Again, a diversionary tactic. What is your point?

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post #218 of 235

U.S. Growth Halted as Federal Spending Fell in 4th Quarter

 

 

Quote:
The surprisingly weak numbers

 

Only surprising to the NYT

post #219 of 235

Cut spending, cut growth.  Shocking.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #220 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Cut spending, cut growth.  Shocking.

 

It's scary that you think Federal spending is what is driving the economy.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #221 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001 View Post

 

It's scary that you think Federal spending is what is driving the economy.  

 

It's scary that you set up a strawman at almost every opportunity.  I never said it drives the economy.  I only said that federal spending is an integral part of the economy and that it should come to no surprise that a cut in spending will lead to a cut in growth.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #222 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

 

It's scary that you set up a strawman at almost every opportunity.  I never said it drives the economy.  I only said that federal spending is an integral part of the economy and that it should come to no surprise that a cut in spending will lead to a cut in growth.

 

Yes. A cut in government spending results in a reduction (at least short-term) in GDP. But this is not really saying anything since GDP is comprised of government (and private) spending. Which makes GDP a problematic measure of whether the economy is in good or bad shape, growing or shrinking in the ways that matter most.

 

The general purpose of the overall economy is to advance the material well-being (wealth) of the people participating in it.

 

The more important question is whether people are better or worse off as a result of government taxing and spending and how this is measured in any objective way. GDP (or the DJIA or whatever) doesn't necessarily tell us this at all. The best measure would likely be the (inflation-adjusted) level of (net) wealth/worth and (after-tax) income per person (or household). This could be looked at per-capita and as median values over time.

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #223 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

 

It's scary that you set up a strawman at almost every opportunity.  I never said it drives the economy.  I only said that federal spending is an integral part of the economy and that it should come to no surprise that a cut in spending will lead to a cut in growth.

 

Is it a strawman?  Do you seriously mean to tell us that you don't think Federal spending is what's most important wrt economic growth?  This would be a contradiction of pretty everything you've ever claimed.  

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #224 of 235

What part of integral part of the economy do you not understand?  I'm not seeing this contradiction you are claiming, either.  Federal spending is important.  It's even more important when times are tough.  Cutting federal spending during a recovery is counterproductive.  

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #225 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

What part of integral part of the economy do you not understand?

 

You are correct. At the present time and current levels of spending, taxing, regulation and other disruptions of the economy, the government is "integral" to the economy. Presently is consists of about 30-40% of the US economy. Possibly more.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Federal spending is important. It's even more important when times are tough.  Cutting federal spending during a recovery is counterproductive.

 

How? Why? In what way? Please explain your claim and reasoning.

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The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #226 of 235

Laying off all those public sector workers such as teachers, police, and firefighters while the private sector can't absorb those workers only causes unemployment to rise and demand to fall. 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #227 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

Laying off all those public sector workers such as teachers, police, and firefighters while the private sector can't absorb those workers only causes unemployment to rise and demand to fall. 

 

Why do you assume the private sector cannot or will not absorb them?

The state is nothing more than a criminal gang writ large.

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post #228 of 235

I'm not going to go any further with you on this because my next response is going to involve demand driving the economy and you're going to spout some libertarian supply-side nonsense and the result will be me wasting too much time typing on a Sunday. 

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #229 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by BR View Post

I'm not going to go any further with you on this because my next response is going to involve demand driving the economy and you're going to spout some libertarian supply-side nonsense and the result will be me wasting too much time typing on a Sunday. 

 

In short then you don't have any answer other than to imply that your demand-side reasoning is not nonsense while what you think I will say is nonsense.

 

Clever.

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post #230 of 235
There are truths in both supply side and demand side economics. The key lies in the best combination and the balance of these and other factors.

It is a fool who promotes one side without recognizing the importance of the opposite.
post #231 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There are truths in both supply side and demand side economics. The key lies in the best combination and the balance of these and other factors.

It is a fool who promotes one side without recognizing the importance of the opposite.

 

I'd ask you to explain this reasoning, what truths from both should be accepted and which should not or what the best combination is or is not. But that seems like it would be a waste of time since I'm betting you don't know and you're just talking out of your ass trying to sound like you're being the rational, reasonable non-extremist, non-ideological "moderate."

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post #232 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJ1970 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

There are truths in both supply side and demand side economics. The key lies in the best combination and the balance of these and other factors.


It is a fool who promotes one side without recognizing the importance of the opposite.

I'd ask you to explain this reasoning, what truths from both should be accepted and which should not or what the best combination is or is not. But that seems like it would be a waste of time since I'm betting you don't know and you're just talking out of your ass trying to sound like you're being the rational, reasonable non-extremist, non-ideological "moderate."
You're right.

I won't bother to respond to your dismissal of intelligence and reason. Goodbye.
post #233 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

You're right.

I won't bother to respond to your dismissal of intelligence and reason. Goodbye.

 

It's quite laughable that you claim what you just posted is "intelligence and reason" when you've demonstrated no such thing. You simply claimed something without supporting or substantiating it. You're basically hand waving and you know it.

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post #234 of 235
Yeah you're right. The extremist view has historically proven to be the right view.

th_hand-waving.gif

1rolleyes.gif
post #235 of 235
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton View Post

Yeah you're right. The extremist view has historically proven to be the right view.

th_hand-waving.gif

1rolleyes.gif

 

So you have nothing. Got it.

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