Unexpectedly - Page 6

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Originally Posted by tonton 


Yeah, because that's what socialists do... you know, uh... favor the rich. Do you realize how ridiculous you sound?

Is that some kind of an argument? Some kind of refutation of what I said?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonton 


Absolutely. You called Obama a socialist then accused him of favoring the rich.

Yes I did. And nothing you said refuted that.

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Originally Posted by tonton 

A "corporatist socialist" is actually what you said!

You know like a fascist anarchist, or a communist capitalist, or a Muslim anarchist!

Uh huh. Well, if you don't understand, just say so.

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Originally Posted by tonton 

Oh I understand, all right.

All evidence to the contrary.

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Originally Posted by tonton 

Just like I understand this.

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Originally Posted by tonton 

Is it socialism, or is it corporatism that you're unclear about. You do understand that they are mutually exclusive opposites, right?

Oh I see now. You're operating under a misapprehension of the facts. These are not exclusive opposites. That's where your confusion is. You're welcome.

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Originally Posted by tonton 

What? What does Mitt Romney have to do with this discussion? This appears to be another diversionary tactic of yours.

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Originally Posted by tonton 


You clearly didn't watch the clip.

No I didn't. Why would/should I? I saw Mitt Romney and turned it off. I don't care about him or what he has to say. I expected a waste of my time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonton 


Riight. Never mind then.

Good then.

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Originally Posted by tonton 


The clip wasn't about mitt Romney or anything about what he has to say.

OK. So it's about some random Mitt Romney supporters have to say. I still fail to see any relevance here. Again, a diversionary tactic. What is your point?

U.S. Growth Halted as Federal Spending Fell in 4th Quarter

Only surprising to the NYT

Cut spending, cut growth.  Shocking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

Cut spending, cut growth.  Shocking.

It's scary that you think Federal spending is what is driving the economy.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDW2001 

 

It's scary that you think Federal spending is what is driving the economy.  

It's scary that you set up a strawman at almost every opportunity.  I never said it drives the economy.  I only said that federal spending is an integral part of the economy and that it should come to no surprise that a cut in spending will lead to a cut in growth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

 

It's scary that you set up a strawman at almost every opportunity.  I never said it drives the economy.  I only said that federal spending is an integral part of the economy and that it should come to no surprise that a cut in spending will lead to a cut in growth.

Yes. A cut in government spending results in a reduction (at least short-term) in GDP. But this is not really saying anything since GDP is comprised of government (and private) spending. Which makes GDP a problematic measure of whether the economy is in good or bad shape, growing or shrinking in the ways that matter most.

The general purpose of the overall economy is to advance the material well-being (wealth) of the people participating in it.

The more important question is whether people are better or worse off as a result of government taxing and spending and how this is measured in any objective way. GDP (or the DJIA or whatever) doesn't necessarily tell us this at all. The best measure would likely be the (inflation-adjusted) level of (net) wealth/worth and (after-tax) income per person (or household). This could be looked at per-capita and as median values over time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

 

It's scary that you set up a strawman at almost every opportunity.  I never said it drives the economy.  I only said that federal spending is an integral part of the economy and that it should come to no surprise that a cut in spending will lead to a cut in growth.

Is it a strawman?  Do you seriously mean to tell us that you don't think Federal spending is what's most important wrt economic growth?  This would be a contradiction of pretty everything you've ever claimed.  

What part of integral part of the economy do you not understand?  I'm not seeing this contradiction you are claiming, either.  Federal spending is important.  It's even more important when times are tough.  Cutting federal spending during a recovery is counterproductive.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

What part of integral part of the economy do you not understand?

You are correct. At the present time and current levels of spending, taxing, regulation and other disruptions of the economy, the government is "integral" to the economy. Presently is consists of about 30-40% of the US economy. Possibly more.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

Federal spending is important. It's even more important when times are tough.  Cutting federal spending during a recovery is counterproductive.

How? Why? In what way? Please explain your claim and reasoning.

Laying off all those public sector workers such as teachers, police, and firefighters while the private sector can't absorb those workers only causes unemployment to rise and demand to fall. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

Laying off all those public sector workers such as teachers, police, and firefighters while the private sector can't absorb those workers only causes unemployment to rise and demand to fall. 

Why do you assume the private sector cannot or will not absorb them?

I'm not going to go any further with you on this because my next response is going to involve demand driving the economy and you're going to spout some libertarian supply-side nonsense and the result will be me wasting too much time typing on a Sunday. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BR 

I'm not going to go any further with you on this because my next response is going to involve demand driving the economy and you're going to spout some libertarian supply-side nonsense and the result will be me wasting too much time typing on a Sunday. 

In short then you don't have any answer other than to imply that your demand-side reasoning is not nonsense while what you think I will say is nonsense.

Clever.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonton 

There are truths in both supply side and demand side economics. The key lies in the best combination and the balance of these and other factors.

It is a fool who promotes one side without recognizing the importance of the opposite.

I'd ask you to explain this reasoning, what truths from both should be accepted and which should not or what the best combination is or is not. But that seems like it would be a waste of time since I'm betting you don't know and you're just talking out of your ass trying to sound like you're being the rational, reasonable non-extremist, non-ideological "moderate."

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonton 

You're right.

I won't bother to respond to your dismissal of intelligence and reason. Goodbye.

It's quite laughable that you claim what you just posted is "intelligence and reason" when you've demonstrated no such thing. You simply claimed something without supporting or substantiating it. You're basically hand waving and you know it.

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Originally Posted by tonton 

Yeah you're right. The extremist view has historically proven to be the right view.

So you have nothing. Got it.