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Apple releases Mac OS X update to catch MAC Defender malware - Page 2

post #41 of 77
Hooray for pointless debates about the ways English arbitrarily chooses to pluralize latin nouns.
post #42 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Remove com.apple.preference.security.plist from ~/Library/Preferences.

It's not there to remove - any other ideas?
post #43 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

It's not there to remove - any other ideas?

Instead of the Users folder (~), try Macintosh HD/Library/Preferences
post #44 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

Instead of the Users folder (~), try Macintosh HD/Library/Preferences

Thanks for the suggestion, but it's nowhere to be found. Tried reinstalling the update again, restarted and it still crashes - just when trying to access security settings. All other sys prefs work fine.
post #45 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmgregory1 View Post

Thanks for the suggestion, but it's nowhere to be found. Tried reinstalling the update again, restarted and it still crashes - just when trying to access security settings. All other sys prefs work fine.

Hmm, there's a
com.apple.security.plist.bak
in mine.
post #46 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

Hmm, there's a
com.apple.security.plist.bak
in mine.

The closest I have is com.apple.security.systemidentities.plist or com.apple.security.certreq.plist. Very strange why this one pref (that appears to be corrupted) is crashing the whole sys prefs.
post #47 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbruni View Post

The plural of virus is viruses. There is no such word as virii.

Yes, there is; it is the Latin plural. Generally it is not accepted in English but this is sometimes a subject of debate.
post #48 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin Huber View Post

I don't think we are dealing with a virus, but a piece of malware.

It is precisely an example of well-designed and executed social engineering. Nothing new in OS X or any operating system in this world. That's all.
post #49 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suddenly Newton View Post

Hooray! Although I've already turned off the "automatically open safe file types" option in Safari.

Good for you, and for me since I did so years ago. "Safe files" looked always funny to me, to put it mildly, and I have never left a Mac I had access to, or any account on it, with this on.

But does the security update turns this option off? Or it sitll leaves it on?
post #50 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsginc View Post

FTR, why don't Google, Bing and other search sites quarantine sites which enable malware like this. Particularly when the sites allow themselves to be a regular transport mechanism for malware.

They already do this, have you never come across a warning from Google saying 'This site may harm your computer, do you want to continue?'?
Unfortunately, these warnings seem to cover only a fairly small percentage of all malicious websites.
post #51 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Yes, there is; it is the Latin plural. Generally it is not accepted in English but this is sometimes a subject of debate.

It is incorrect. Also, pseudo-Latin. It's a colloquialism. Even more so than 'proven', which I prefer to the hickier-sounding 'proved'.

Originally posted by Relic

...those little naked weirdos are going to get me investigated.
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Originally posted by Relic

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post #52 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PB View Post

Yes, there is; it is the Latin plural. Generally it is not accepted in English but this is sometimes a subject of debate.

Virus was first used in English in 1392 from the Latin virulentus. There is no virii, it's a vernacular used by technophiles in the last few decades.

Also, while many Latin words that end in -us are oft made plural replacing the -us with an -i it doesn't mean it's always correct to do so.

Those who say differently are just talking out their ani.
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post #53 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsginc View Post

Just like Windows.... Oh, wait, I mean, just like Windows could have done and should have done years ago.

FTR, why don't Google, Bing and other search sites quarantine sites which enable malware like this. Particularly when the sites allow themselves to be a regular transport mechanism for malware. As long as search sites like Google, Bing and others don't help to stop it, more people will continue to visit these same sites over and over and over again. By helping to stop it, instead of making it easier, search sites can make distribution of malware more difficult.

It won't solve the problem, but anything that makes it more difficult for malware or educates users to be more careful makes it better for the rest of us.

The ultimate Mac vs PC advertising campaign could have been if Apple had bought one of the anti-virus companies. Imagine the buttons: (A) Quarantine, (B) Get a Mac.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #54 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

I have to admit that I use the Symantic suite for Mac, and I've been using their predecessors for quite some time, since System 8. While with System 7, 8, and 9, we did get a few virii a year, and some few pieces of malware, we haven't had any actual problems with OS X. But, I do get Windows junk. Since I don't want to pass that on to my Windows using friends(yes, I do have some), I use this to mainly eradicate those. But better safe than sorry. The way I have it set, it doesn't slow the machine down.

Perhaps that could be an online service built into OSX. Right click a file and have it sent to Apple for virus checking. At least as an option in MobileMe - it's all good added value for a paid online service.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #55 of 77
A couple of things I thing Apple should have done differently here.

(1) The malware definitions list should be streamed into OSX from Apple as a data update not requiring an OS update.

(2) Uninstalling apps, including stopping all its processes, should be a single button click as is its installation, and therefore should also not require an OS update. This way Apple support *would* be able to tell people how to get rid of it plus already-infected users can have a little window pop-up saying that they have downloaded some malware from the blacklist and may we click the delete button for you.

There are no novice users; they are customers.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #56 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

A couple of things I thing Apple should have done differently here.

(1) The malware definitions list should be streamed into OSX from Apple as a data update not requiring an OS update.

(2) Uninstalling apps, including stopping all its processes, should be a single button click as is its installation, and therefore should also not require an OS update. This way Apple support *would* be able to tell people how to get rid of it plus already-infected users can have a little window pop-up saying that they have downloaded some malware from the blacklist and may we click the delete button for you.

There are no novice users; they are customers.

Yeah I don't understand. How would one scan their computer for it if they have downloaded it? This appears to just check upon download. What if you already have it? How do you know if you have it? I don't, but switchers from Windows will be wondering about all of the above.

Repeat, HOW DO I SCAN FOR MALWARE ON THE MAC?

Edit: I suppose one can try http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/viru...move-mac-guard, the removal script/app that you download is considered "Safe"

WE ARE IN A BOLD NEW WORLD OF MAC ANTIVIRUS. Welcome.

Apple says "In the coming days, Apple will deliver a Mac OS X software update that will automatically find and remove Mac Defender malware and its known variants." http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4650

But there is no notification upon installing the software update that it scanned anything... Like I said, new users, ie. customers as someone pointed out, will be confused.
post #57 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

Virus was first used in English in 1392 from the Latin virulentus. There is no virii, it's a vernacular used by technophiles in the last few decades.

Also, while many Latin words that end in -us are oft made plural replacing the -us with an -i it doesn't mean it's always correct to do so.

Those who say differently are just talking out their ani.

From watching a lot of My Little Pony : Friendship Is Magic and reading all the related websites I am now certain the plural of Pegasus is Pegasi. Twenty years ago my friend was playing some computer game involving Pegasi and he didn't believe my pluralisation (<--not a word?) back then. Well, finally, vindication after all this time! Muah ah ha ha ha ha ha
post #58 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bsginc View Post

The information is appreciated. However, your sarcasm was neither necessary nor appreciated. Instead, responses like yours tend to cut off discussion. And, FWIW, once WOT gets big enough, it will be be perverted by dishonest and greedy people just like everything else on the web is once it attracts enough attention. The basic problem needs to be fixed and not just avoided by finding (for now) safe alternatives.

That said, your reply fails to address the larger issue of why search engines leave their users out in the cold by not helping to stop the crap. Makes one wonder if, perhaps, they don't derive some of their revenue from malware developers. Perhaps like those who suck off legitimate searches to get their bogus sites at the top of key word searches perhaps?

http://www.ehow.com/how_5893619_browse-safely.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_6853223_chec...s-malware.html
http://www.getsafeonline.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1125
http://www.getsafeonline.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1159
http://www.getsafeonline.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1160

These were all on the FIRST page(and linked from inside each other) of searching on google for "how to browse safely"

Google or any other search engine is not responsible for neglect or ignorance on the part of the user, so your response is false and invalid.

Google EVEN has their own tool to scan websites with that is available to the public(firefox and chrome to my knowledge).

You'll be glad to hear that AI is clean

http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/d...pleinsider.com
post #59 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

Thanks, Mario.

I believe I dismissed the dialog box when I downloaded it several days ago. I don't know how to reset the warnings. If you would be so kind to educate me.

I did take the file, put it on a keychain drive, dropped the avSetup.pkg file into the Download folder on a different Mac that I had just updated and restarted. I then launched avSetup.pkg and there was no warning.

I guess it actually has to download the file for the Security update to work?
Doesn't seem that effective to me if that's a requirement. Or do you think the OS modifies the installer somehow?

See... This is my point... Doesn't look like the latest "built-in anti malware" in OS X is working.
post #60 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Yeah I don't understand. How would one scan their computer for it if they have downloaded it? This appears to just check upon download. What if you already have it? How do you know if you have it? I don't, but switchers from Windows will be wondering about all of the above.

Repeat, HOW DO I SCAN FOR MALWARE ON THE MAC?

Edit: I suppose one can try http://www.bleepingcomputer.com/viru...move-mac-guard, the removal script/app that you download is considered "Safe"

WE ARE IN A BOLD NEW WORLD OF MAC ANTIVIRUS. Welcome.

Apple says "In the coming days, Apple will deliver a Mac OS X software update that will automatically find and remove Mac Defender malware and its known variants." http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4650

But there is no notification upon installing the software update that it scanned anything... Like I said, new users, ie. customers as someone pointed out, will be confused.

There is a lot that Apple can do before going to full-scale anti-virus scanning.

The first part I would implement is that uninstalling an app should be as easy as installing one.

There should be an Applications app where a user can see their installed apps and click a single button to uninstall it, as well as stopping all its processes.

This business of having to find all the pieces and manually get rid of them is really poor.

First Apple should implement good OS/IT practises, *then* we can see how big a problem there is.

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post #61 of 77
Oh come on, Google does take some steps, but search engines are there for all to use and abuse.

I've noticed the SEO gaming in the past six months has been quite bad, there are tons of these fake "news" sites or blogs which just aggregate all kinds of content to appear as a legitimate news or blog site.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jexus View Post

http://www.ehow.com/how_5893619_browse-safely.html
http://www.ehow.com/how_6853223_chec...s-malware.html
http://www.getsafeonline.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1125
http://www.getsafeonline.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1159
http://www.getsafeonline.org/nqcontent.cfm?a_id=1160

These were all on the FIRST page(and linked from inside each other) of searching on google for "how to browse safely"

Google or any other search engine is not responsible for neglect or ignorance on the part of the user, so your response is false and invalid.

Google EVEN has their own tool to scan websites with that is available to the public(firefox and chrome to my knowledge).

You'll be glad to hear that AI is clean

http://www.google.com/safebrowsing/d...pleinsider.com
post #62 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

There is a lot that Apple can do before going to full-scale anti-virus scanning.

The first part I would implement is that uninstalling an app should be as easy as installing one.

There should be an Applications app where a user can see their installed apps and click a single button to uninstall it, as well as stopping all its processes.

This business of having to find all the pieces and manually getting rid of them is really poor.

Thou speaketh of iOS. Sorry, the OS X team is too busy making a new boot animation for Lion to do worthwhile things like proper app management.
post #63 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

From watching a lot of My Little Pony : Friendship Is Magic and reading all the related websites I am now certain the plural of Pegasus is Pegasi. Twenty years ago my friend was playing some computer game involving Pegasi and he didn't believe my pluralisation (<--not a word?) back then. Well, finally, vindication after all this time! Muah ah ha ha ha ha ha

I think you just took this to whole 'notha level. Since Pegasus is a proper noun it's singular. However, because this now describs winged horses in the general sense we can make it plural.

But Pegasus comes from the Greek so do we stick with the Greek plural forms or add the Latni or English. The Greek would be -io or -on, depending on the gender but pegasio and pegason don't look right.

As much as language follows rules it also follows visual and audible aesthetics, or aesthetia.


PS: I care not if people use virii or viruses so long as they know what is considered proper. After all, all language is invented so have fun with it.
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post #64 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think you just took this to whole 'notha level. Since Pegasus is a proper noun it's singular. However, because this now describs winged horses in the general sense we can make it plural.

But Pegasus comes from the Greek so do we stick with the Greek plural forms or add the Latni or English. The Greek would be -io or -on, depending on the gender but pegasio and pegason don't look right.

As much as language follows rules it also follows visual and audible aesthetics, or aesthetia.

PS: I care not if people use virii or viruses so long as they know what is considered proper. After all, all language is invented so have fun with it.

I'd like a cut of your jib, young man... I always did better in Literature rather than English in high school. "Proper" English never quite enticed me as much as flair, artistic license and liberal sprinklings of eloquent ramblings rambunctiously rampaging with reverie.
post #65 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdaddyp View Post

Ok, what's the plural of Platypus?

Platypussies?
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post #66 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

Thou speaketh of iOS. Sorry, the OS X team is too busy making a new boot animation for Lion to do worthwhile things like proper app management.

Then we might agree that Apple is not focused on doing all it could to strengthen OSX's defence against malware.

My view is that Apple should apply good OS/IT practises to OSX so that we don't have to get into disk scanning. I can think of loads of things, based on what I've seen in other systems, but I seem to be a lone voice. Most people just say it's the fault of silly users and the system is fine, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #67 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

I'd like a cut of your jib, young man... I always did better in Literature rather than English in high school. "Proper" English never quite enticed me as much as flair, artistic license and liberal sprinklings of eloquent ramblings rambunctiously rampaging with reverie.

The thing is that as the population gets lazier at speaking they get lazier at thinking.

One day people will think that do-gooders are people that do things well.

Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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Many of the most important software concepts were invented in the 70s and forgotten in the 80s.

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post #68 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by NomadMac View Post

Thanks, Mario.

I believe I dismissed the dialog box when I downloaded it several days ago. I don't know how to reset the warnings. If you would be so kind to educate me.

I did take the file, put it on a keychain drive, dropped the avSetup.pkg file into the Download folder on a different Mac that I had just updated and restarted. I then launched avSetup.pkg and there was no warning.

I guess it actually has to download the file for the Security update to work?
Doesn't seem that effective to me if that's a requirement. Or do you think the OS modifies the installer somehow?

Quarantine (the part of the OS that marks files as downloaded from internet and potentially unsafe) in OS X is implemented by sticking extended attributes on downloaded files.

When you are warned once about the file and you dismiss the dialog, the quarantine attribute is cleared from the file. As a consequence, when you move the file to another OS X computer, it won't have the attribute on it (you trusted it on another Mac after all so why would you not trust it on the one you moved it to).

So, what you need to do is put back the quarantine attribute back on the file. You can do that with xattr command:

Code:

xattr -w com.apple.quarantine "0000;66666666;Safari;5FF2A3CB-B74C-405A-BF92-AD14858A6F5A|com.apple.Safari" avSetup.pkg



This will basically mark the file as freshly downloaded by Safari. If you try to open the file again in the finder you should get a warning again.

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post #69 of 77
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post #70 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacRulez View Post

Outside of AppleInsider we find:

New Variant of 'Mac Defender' Quickly Evades Apple's Security Update as Cat-and-Mouse Game Begins
http://www.macrumors.com/2011/06/01/...e-game-begins/

All your attempts to disparage AI have failed yet again,
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post #71 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbruni View Post

The plural of virus is viruses. There is no such word as virii.


Not true. It can be used either way. It's not considered to be standard-yet. But then, language changes. How fun is that?
post #72 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by solipsism View Post

I think you just took this to whole 'notha level. Since Pegasus is a proper noun it's singular. However, because this now describs winged horses in the general sense we can make it plural.

But Pegasus comes from the Greek so do we stick with the Greek plural forms or add the Latni or English. The Greek would be -io or -on, depending on the gender but pegasio and pegason don't look right.

As much as language follows rules it also follows visual and audible aesthetics, or aesthetia.


PS: I care not if people use virii or viruses so long as they know what is considered proper. After all, all language is invented so have fun with it.

From what I remember, virii started out as a specific description of a computer virus, and was intended to move computer viruses away from the description of actual viruses that infect lifeforms. As with so many other things, it's used by a fair number of people, but not used by even more. I kind of like it, so I use it.
post #73 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Then we might agree that Apple is not focused on doing all it could to strengthen OSX's defence against malware.

My view is that Apple should apply good OS/IT practises to OSX so that we don't have to get into disk scanning. I can think of loads of things, based on what I've seen in other systems, but I seem to be a lone voice. Most people just say it's the fault of silly users and the system is fine, which I wholeheartedly disagree with.

We've seen so few. Less than one a year. It's difficult for a company to spend tens of millions on work for something that's so rare. And as for an actual virus, well, it's almost impossible for an infection to spread on Unix systems. So a virus that infects one system isn't the serious problem it is for Windows.
post #74 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

The thing is that as the population gets lazier at speaking they get lazier at thinking.

One day people will think that do-gooders are people that do things well.

No, that's "did good"ers. As in; " You did good".
post #75 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mario View Post

So, what you need to do is put back the quarantine attribute back on the file. You can do that with xattr command:

Code:

xattr -w com.apple.quarantine "0000;66666666;Safari;5FF2A3CB-B74C-405A-BF92-AD14858A6F5A|com.apple.Safari" avSetup.pkg



This will basically mark the file as freshly downloaded by Safari. If you try to open the file again in the finder you should get a warning again.

And herein lies the problem with Apple's current anti-malware "solution".

Quote:
Originally Posted by PXT View Post

Then we might agree that Apple is not focused on doing all it could to strengthen OSX's defence against malware.

Indeed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross View Post

We've seen so few. Less than one a year. It's difficult for a company to spend tens of millions on work for something that's so rare. And as for an
actual virus, well, it's almost impossible for an infection to spread on Unix systems. So a virus that infects one system isn't the serious problem it is for Windows.

That's why I think this is the perfect opportunity for Apple to spend those tens of millions. Just like in real life, prevention is better then cure. In fact, I would argue, there is no better time than NOW for Apple to put in place a cohesive strategy for OS X (and eventual merging with iOS) security for the next ten years. Especially with Lion coming up. If they can spend resources on new boot animations and a new login screen, they sure as heck can establish this second decade of the Mac OS X being truly secure and "virus"-free.

Just like vaccinations, if you didn't get it, it's always too late when you actually need it. Apple has a virtually clean slate to prepare. It's not like they haven't done this before, it's all been done with iOS, with security as their primary goal long before there were any third-party apps at all. In fact, they were extra paranoid by going with web apps only upon launch, not allowing or even hinting as to any kind of extensibility.
post #76 of 77
In some ways, Steve Jobs is always best when envisioning something new. Anything existing has to be "reimagined" to capture his interest. There's where the rest of the team comes in, and they have been doing an excellent job, but they've perhaps become a little reliant on the Steve's drive for all things new, re-imagined, and perfect.

The executive that has the guts to tell Steve things like "we need proper, seamless, absolutely unobtrusive antivirus" and "why did MobileMe suck for so long?" is the worthy successor.

Of course, I'm making a lot of assumptions in this post, but well, just putting it out there.
post #77 of 77
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvidia2008 View Post

And herein lies the problem with Apple's current anti-malware "solution".



Indeed.



That's why I think this is the perfect opportunity for Apple to spend those tens of millions. Just like in real life, prevention is better then cure. In fact, I would argue, there is no better time than NOW for Apple to put in place a cohesive strategy for OS X (and eventual merging with iOS) security for the next ten years. Especially with Lion coming up. If they can spend resources on new boot animations and a new login screen, they sure as heck can establish this second decade of the Mac OS X being truly secure and "virus"-free.

Just like vaccinations, if you didn't get it, it's always too late when you actually need it. Apple has a virtually clean slate to prepare. It's not like they haven't done this before, it's all been done with iOS, with security as their primary goal long before there were any third-party apps at all. In fact, they were extra paranoid by going with web apps only upon launch, not allowing or even hinting as to any kind of extensibility.

Most malware prevention software are for virii (Ha! Take that you linguists out there.). That's not a real problem for OS X from what I read in the journals. Other malware is different. I'm pretty sure Apple is continuing to work on this. But what should they do? Copy MS in having a major suite of malware tools? Even that needs to be updated, as mine are, once a month. What Apple seems to be doing is to have a framework that allows them to add new malware to the lists as soon as they can do it. There's no way to actually prevent malware before It comes out out anyway. You can't really be proactive about it the way they can be with iOS. Look at the problems Google is having with Android malware.
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